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Mr Alan
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I think that some of the posts above about PI are overblown if one stays in Manila or points north (like Angeles City). Obviously, like LOS, there are Muslims in the south, and it best to stay far away from these places. But PI is very poor in most places and there is always the risk of ordinary crime, with no political motivation.
The stuff posted about coups and uprising against Arroyo seems off base to me since PI is a democracy. If 80% of the people don't want her, then she will not win the upcoming election. Sounds like someone has a political ax to grind. People in PI like to demonstrate in the streets all the time because many of them are too poor to afford any other type of entertainment or activity.
Indonesia is the largest Islamic nation in the world. Enough said. I personally have started avoiding the purchase of any product made in Indonesia. A lot of clothes and athletic shoes are made there, but I think foreign investment from the West will start to dry up.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:07 am on Aug. 29, 2003
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Mr Alan
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Even if all the bars and MP's are closed (very unlikely) there will always be ample P4P in LOS. They don't call it "the world's oldest profession" for nothing.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 1:10 am on Aug. 29, 2003
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craigoz
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Machine,
Its not your arm that the Indonesian girls want, its another pressumably shorter peice of flesh and yes, its as safe as one can be these days anywhere.
Also sent you a PM
Mr Alan
Quote: "Indonesia is the largest Islamic nation in the world. Enough said. I personally have started avoiding the purchase of any product made in Indonesia. A lot of clothes and athletic shoes are made there, but I think foreign investment from the West will start to dry up"
Clearly you have little understanding of what the country and people are all about. And to avoid buying a product , "What because of the religion of the country"............ I dare not respond!!!!!!!!!!!!
As to foreign investment drying up - maybe a little for a short time:
They have Oil, Gas and Gold and commercial interests far out way business ethics. All the big players are there and there to stay for the profits. Just look at the inside of your "Nike".They also have 200Mill people and a reasonably bouyant micro economy. Not to mention they once had more millionaires (in USD worth ) than the USA and will have one day again.
You and many others will be fighting over each other to be there in 18 months time.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:40 pm on Aug. 29, 2003
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cmore
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Quote: from Mr Alan on 12:10 am on Aug. 30, 2003
Even if all the bars and MP's are closed (very unlikely) there will always be ample P4P in LOS. They don't call it "the world's oldest profession" for nothing.
Of course there will always be ample P4P in LOS, for Thais.
You're forgetting that the foreigner side of the P4P scene amounts to less then 10%. The remaining more then 90% is pretty much available to Thais only ( With a few exceptions, very few ).
If the foreigner side disappeared or went underground I have a hard time imagining Thai men welcoming us into their establishments with open arms ( Especially since they know the type of women most of us have a preference for that most of them wouldn't be caught dead with ).
Ample P4P in LOS? Hopefully yes, but let's hope we never have to find out for sure  . Peace
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 8:15 pm on Aug. 29, 2003
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Mr Alan
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cmore, My comment about P4P always being available in LOS is based on the assumption that freelancing would take over if there was any closure of go-go clubs and MP's.
Another possible venue (now popular in the US) is out-call escort services advertising in the internet. No establishment or place of business needed for that. Queens Massage is already one such operation in LOS.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 2:13 am on Aug. 30, 2003
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Mr Alan
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craigoz,
I fully realize the extent of current US investment in Indonesia. Such investment is mainly for the manual labor required to make shoes and apparel. Many of these arrangements are actually 3rd party deals, but that is beside the point.
Right after 9/11 the VP of Indonesia said the USA got what it deserved from the terrorist attacks. The President of Indonesia refused to comment either way on this statement.
All products sold in the US but made outside the US are required to state the country of manufacture on a label. Based on that, I refuse to purchase products (even from US companies) made in Indonesia. That's my choice, and I am sure others will disagree. That’s the beauty of a free-market where each person can choose for themselves. Recent news stories have documented that Indonesian's are boycotting US products, which is also their right to do so.
I am sure that there are many other countries where shoes and apparel can be (and are already) manufactured such as the Philippines, Thailand, Dominican Republic, Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc. There is no reason for US manufacturers to expand (or even continue) investment in Indonesia.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:38 am on Aug. 30, 2003
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China Sailor
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Mr Alan,
As an military member in SPECWAR, I have been in plenty of places that were 'Democracries' that had bloody coups ending up in the loss of lives.
Outside the US, Democracy is not practiced in the expected way, Democracy means the person with the most power rules.
Do you live in PI, I go there 2-3 times a month. Its your ass if you get caught there in a coup but do not recommend other to go. The only reason I was not in the Oakwood on coup day is that I was on holiday with my GF in Bali..
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:39 am on Aug. 30, 2003
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Mr Alan
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I was in PI about 2 1/2 years ago when Estrada was in his final days before he was forced from office. I saw the demonstrations and know what the place is like. I don't want to get into a long discussion about democracy in PI, but there is an election coming up, so the voters will decide if Arroyo stays in office (if she runs). If there is coup in spite of the elections, then that will be unfortunate, but I doubt it will have much impact on any Westerners who happen to be there.
There are a lot of people (even in the US) who think that democracy does not exist when their candidate looses an election. That is an bad attitude to have, but I guess it's part of human nature. I personally have a lot of confidence in the people of PI (as a whole).
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:26 am on Aug. 30, 2003
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craigoz
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Mr Alan,
I wasn't talking about shoes re: a major USA investment. That referrence was so you knew who also made your Nikes.
I doubt you do realize the extent of investment in the industry sectors of Gold, Oil and Gas in Indonesia by the USA parent companies and these companies are not third party, nor do the require the products to be labled Seriously have you lived there or even visited the country for there for that matter?
Without being too rude, it would appear that you believe too many third hand stories, pressumably those in the press. Pays to visit these places and experience the facts first hand.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 10:52 pm on Aug. 30, 2003
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Tsonoqua
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craigoz:
I have been to both Sumatra and Bali as a tourist. I liked Bali and didn't like Sumatra.
I was able to verify Indonesia's population as almost 235 million by using the CIA world fact book, but I was not able to find any data which supports your contention that Indonesia has or had more millionaires that the U.S.
I find that claim exceedingly unlikely, because, while the average GDP for Indonesia is $3,100 the average GDP for the U.S. is $37,600.
If you could point me to an internet reference that supports your millionaire thesis, I would really like to look at it.
I too, do not buy product from nations that do not, at least nominally, support the U.S. This is a personal decision, based on politics, not religion. I have not bought French wine or Belgian chocolate since the latest problem in the United Nations.
I have also researched American companies penetration into Indonesia. They are there to find cheap labor, and if they left tomorrow, it would not cause a blip on their radar screens, although it would probably trash the Indonesian economy. The advantage of a global economy is that there's always someplace that will do it cheaper.
Here's what the CIA World Factbook has to say about Indonesia:
"Indonesia, a vast polyglot nation, faces severe economic development problems stemming from secessionist movements and the low level of security in the regions; the lack of reliable legal recourse in contract disputes; corruption; weaknesses in the banking system; and strained relations with the IMF. Investor confidence will remain low and few new jobs will be created under these circumstances. In November 2001, Indonesia agreed with the IMF on a series of economic reforms in 2002, thus enabling further IMF disbursements. Negotiations with the IMF and bilateral donors continued in 2002. Keys to future growth remain internal reform, the build-up of the confidence of international donors and investors, and a strong comeback in the global economy"
To me that reads that Mr. Alan is correct and Indonesia's economy sucks.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:31 pm on Aug. 30, 2003
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