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chrisboy
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chompoo,
i think u and me goes to the casino for a very different reason. i go there to gamble, that is to complete against a game of chance to make win $$. i do not go to the casino to drink, get to know members of the opposite sex nor do i go as a group to hold our own parties! if i had wanted a good time, a pub or the club will be my choice.
the Holland Casino to me, is managed very well. the dealers and staff are pretty professional with their job! and the selection of games, from my point of view, has what many international Casinos has to offer too! it just lack the glimmick and entertainment Vegas, Crown, Skycity has to offer besides gambling.
theres many private casinos in the U.K too. and how r u gonna compare them??? these members only casinos has probably 3 tables of each game available, and it cater strickly to people who wanna gamble, not to find entertainment there.
so, whos more desperate? people like me who goes to gamble or people who goes there to party??
regards,
chrisboy
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:59 am on Oct. 16, 2002
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Chompoo
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Chris, I wasn't knocking you specifically. IMO, casino gambling is a fool's game unless it is fun. You cannot beat the house in the long run without cheating. I enjoy gambling in the large Vegas casinos because the atmosphere is worth the guaranteed loss of money (I'm playing for the entertainment).
In the HC, the players and the dealers were pretty lifeless and all that was left was just 'taking my money' part. Maybe it was a bad night, or maybe my expectations were too high.
If you find enough entertainment in HC for the money you're laying down, that's fine with me.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 1:38 pm on Oct. 16, 2002
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Chompoo
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I never imagined H.C would rate anywhere near a Vegas casino, for decor or game selection. As for 'needing to be desperate to gamble' to go there.... well, there are only about 5 licensed (legal) casinos in the whole of Holland... so I guess beggers can't be chosers.
But if they're all crappy, why go to any of them? Unless you are a compulsive gambler.
Obviously your summation of Amsterdam's RLD is shared by thousands of people, from every corner of the globe, every day of the year. I wasn't knocking that.... merely commenting on the difference between here and LOS... SPECIFICALLY the 'pay for sex' angle.
Respectfully, I don't think you were just making the comparison. I was responding directly to your (and Dave's) absolute comment that it was just not an enjoyable (or worthwhile) experience at all. More accurately perhaps, I was responding to all the hypocrites who condemn those who are "so desperate for sex" that they use a prostitute and then go home and whack off to the Playboy channel 3 times a week or spend every Friday night in a dreary bar hoping some loose woman whose had too much to drink will give them a piece.
Unfair comparisson? You may well be correct. But what kind of comparisson is comparing a casino in Amsterdam to one in Vegas?
That's a valid point. It is not my place to criticize others for how they find their entertainment. I suppose I think the drive for sex and the potential enjoyment are an order of magnitude greater than the compulsion to gamble and the resulting pleasure from that. I still enjoy gambling a lot, but I can do without it for an indefinite amount of time if the circumstances are not favorable.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:58 pm on Oct. 16, 2002
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X
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Chompoo,
I never said Holland Casinos were crappy, I said I never expected they would rate as high as Vegas casinos for décor or game selection. I think they are nice enough and pleasant enough. I go to the casino for many reasons, I think it’s a nice night out, and no I am not a compulsive gambler by any stretch of anyones imagination.
On to your next point, you are free to “think” what you want, to read into my comments what you want. I know what I meant and what I said. It is not MY idea of a pleasurable experience. Having someone shit on me is also not my idea of a pleasurable experience… but I sure as hell won’t knock anyone who does get their kicks from that.
You automatically assume because one doesn’t see the fascination in something that it makes them a hypocrite who would condemn others for partaking in it. I think that’s a massive leap in assumption to make.
To me the statement “that’s not my cup of tea” is far from criticism or condemnation.
I know men who travel to Thailand for (among other things) the bar girls, but they don’t frequent the RLD’s here. I understand completely their reasoning, and could go into it in depth here... but I don't think it's necessary.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 3:50 am on Oct. 17, 2002
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Chompoo
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X, you are the one who is reading things into my posts.
I never said Holland Casinos were crappy, I said I never expected they would rate as high as Vegas casinos for décor or game selection. I think they are nice enough and pleasant enough. I go to the casino for many reasons, I think it’s a nice night out, and no I am not a compulsive gambler by any stretch of anyones imagination.
You didn't say they were crappy, I did. You said that there were only a few of them, so "beggars can't be choosers". I pointed out that if all the options are bad, why choose any of them? You may contend that they are not crappy, which is where our opinions differ. My assertion still stands, if you go to a crappy casino because that is the only casino around, then you are a compulsive gambler and should seek help.
I did point out that people may be able to enjoy themselves at HC, just that I didn't see it. My post was not intended to denigrate your experience (although I admit that it did), just to set expectations for others like me who might think HC is more than it is.
On to your next point, you are free to “think” what you want, to read into my comments what you want. I know what I meant and what I said. It is not MY idea of a pleasurable experience. Having someone shit on me is also not my idea of a pleasurable experience… but I sure as hell won’t knock anyone who does get their kicks from that.
To me the statement “that’s not my cup of tea” is far from criticism or condemnation.
Whether you realize it or not, when you make a statement like "definitely not my idea either of an enjoyable experience." You are making a judgement about the activities of others, just as I did in my comments on HC. The statement you made is very different from "not my cup of tea."
But the very fact that you and Dave felt the need to make this statement is telling in itself.
You automatically assume because one doesn’t see the fascination in something that it makes them a hypocrite who would condemn others for partaking in it. I think that’s a massive leap in assumption to make.
That is not my assumption at all, but you are confusing what I think was a carefully worded response on my part. I did not go so far as to call you personally a hypocrite, what I said was "More accurately perhaps, I was responding to all the hypocrites..." If you choose to put yourself in that group, go ahead; but I didn't do so (yet).
In fact, a big difference here is that you are criticizing the quality, rather than the type of activity, IMO. It comes across as saying, "well, I can do better, but if it's good enough for you...." If there is something more to it, then please explain it. If you have personal hangups and the need to associate sex with love, that is one thing. Or if you need to get to know someone first before f***ing them that is another. Or if you find that girls working as prostitutes are sad, that is yet another. The statement you gave was unclear as to your true feelings, but especially in conjuction with the word "sad" there is one obvious interpretation.
But please tell me why having "conveyer belt" sex with a prostitute should be any less enjoyable than, say, masturbation? Tell me what exactly is the part about the RLD that you think makes it not enjoyable and I'll then make my personal judgement as to whether you're a hypocrite.
I know men who travel to Thailand for (among other things) the bar girls, but they don’t frequent the RLD’s here. I understand completely their reasoning, and could go into it in depth here... but I don't think it's necessary.
It is necessary. Some want to save their money for a more enjoyable experience in Thailand, I can understand that. Some may save time and money by whacking off in the privacy of their own homes, I can understand that. Some may think the risk of STDs is not worth f***ing RLD girls, I can understand that. Some may have easy access to lots of good sex with beautiful girls without paying for it, so I can understand that being a good reason to avoid the RLD.
Those are all valid reasons, however, there are many more (some that I've already alluded to) which are blatant hypocrisy (or at best poorly thought out).
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 2:16 pm on Oct. 17, 2002
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X
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Chompoo - We have differing p.o.v’s over what constitutes a crappy casino. I think we also go to casinos for differing reasons. My main aim of a visit to a casino is not gambling. My “beggars can’t be choosers” comment was a polite way of saying that you may find it inferior, I don’t - and they ARE the best for miles around. (including I am told, neighbouring countries).
You say your comments about Holland Casinos were in part to “set expectations” for those who may think or expect H.C to be Vegas-like or world-class. In my experience people come to Holland/Amsterdam for varying reasons… most popular reasons being… (in no particular order)
-tulips, windmills, woodenshoes, legalised dope, legalised prostitution, the gay and lesbian scene, canals and canal boats etc… casinos aren’t a “selling point” of a trip to Holland in the way it is to Vegas. I don’t really expect tourists would be looking for the ‘best of the best in the casino-world’ when they come here. However, plane loads come with the highest expectations of the ‘world-famous’ RLD and ARE often disappointed.
How many people do you think walk away from their RLD experience with a certain amount of disappointment? Compare that to how many people walk out of Holland casino disappointed. (I don’t mean disappointed over losing money, I mean disappointed about the décor or game selection). I have never noticed an air of “gee this place sucks” in H.C. But I have been witness manys a time in the RLD to “I expected more”, both from tourists and locals and discussed this very point with more than a few people.
Does the average 1st time visitor to the RLD realise when he agrees the $60 price tag on the doorstep that he will be back on that same doorstep 15 minutes later? Possibly yes, if not… then this thread may help “set expectations” more realistically.
I never said "conveyer belt" sex with a prostitute WAS any less enjoyable than masturbation? I never compared the two. I don’t compare apples and oranges. I assume everyone masturbates but not everyone (in the position to do so) frequents Dutch RLDs.
<<Tell me what exactly is the part about the RLD that you think makes it not enjoyable and I'll then make my personal judgement as to whether you're a hypocrite.>>
I will never knock someone for doing something they enjoy (providing of course it’s between consenting adults), but that doesn’t hold that I will find it enjoyable. For me personally it is all too rushed… quick… in and out… clinical. If the average length of time spent with the girl was more in the region of 45 minutes than 15 minutes I would view it differently.
Your comments of myself (and or Dave) being judgemental of others when using the term “definitely not my idea of an enjoyable experience” … with all due respect to you Chompoo, I don’t rate your opinion highly enough to change the way I do or say things – let alone question my thinking. Had a person I respect or whose opinion I value said that, possibly (probably) I would have taken more notice. Whether you think I am a judgemental hypocrite is neither here nor there for me.
(p.s. I am not saying I do not respect your opinion… just saying there are others whose opinion I value more and use a “gauge” for myself – that isn’t the case with you – I AM enjoying our exchange of opinions, just not to the extent of “that’s someone whom I really listen to, if they say I am being judgemental then I must have been”)
On to the point of men who travel to Thailand for sex but don’t frequent the RLD here and what their reasons are…
I have never heard anyone use ‘the risk of STDs is not worth f***ing RLD girls’ as their reason. I think the compulsory health checks and the girls’ insistence on the use of condoms takes care of that.
(*not confusing the RLD with the street-walking illegal prostitutes often referred to as “heroin hookers” where a definite health threat is present)
Yes, money is a factor but not THE main factor in my opinion.
I spoke at length with a guy in a Pattaya bar that often uses an Amsterdam escort agency, but not the RLD. My brother goes to a club in the city but hasn’t used the service of the RLD in years. My boss travels outside of the city (about 40km) to a smaller town with a mini-RLD (a side street with maybe 20 windows max) frequented mostly by locals. As is the case with a lot of things (housing, parking, restaurants) places with lots of tourists (i.e. Amsterdam) the demand can begin to out-strip the supply to the detriment of the service. On a flight to BKK I spoke with 3 men (6 hours long, all the way from Abu Dhabi to BKK) who basically said the “GF experience” was what they travelled to Thailand for and the RLD here was just a means to fill one need compared to the BG’s of Thailand filling many needs (sex, companionship, togetherness, a fun time, drinks, dinner etc). How those guys on the flight fulfilled their needs here in Holland… I actually didn’t ask. However they were actually quite scathing of the RLD here which did piss me off slightly. I also have 2 friends who are in BKK just now and return home either today or next week Friday, I know for a fact one of them shares my thoughts on the RLD and isn’t a patron of it but can’t get enough of Thai BG’s. I know money isn’t the reason he doesn’t frequent the RLD here… but I will ask him to join this forum and elaborate for himself.
To sum up… the RLD in Amsterdam is not my idea of a pleasurable experience… not by a long shot. I think the city (and the country as a whole) has far better options in the ‘pay for sex’ market than the city’s RLD. It also has much worse options. (Sloterdijk’s ‘tipple zone’ for those who are aware of it). To those who do enjoy the RLD, best of luck to them and long may they enjoy it. I do not disapprove of the RLD or it’s patrons’, I would just seek to fulfil my needs in another manner more suited to me personally. The sheer speed of it is (for me personally) is it’s major drawback.
On a side note… although I don’t think the A’dam RLD is all it’s cracked up to be… it is a much better set up than most (if not all) European & North American countries have. It sure beats the situations elsewhere in suburban areas or around train stations, docks, night-life centres etc I have witnessed elsewhere… and it is above all else a safe option. Infact at 3am on Saturday morning it’s infinitely safer than many other areas of the city.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:34 am on Oct. 18, 2002
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sharkindude
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There is lots going on in the UK, the unfortunate thing is everything is underground as is not legal.
However if its a prostitue you are looking for there is a field report site that lists everything from individual girls through to parties etc.....
address is
http://www.punternet.com/
enjoy
SD
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:43 am on Oct. 18, 2002
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Chompoo
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Chompoo - We have differing p.o.v’s over what constitutes a crappy casino. I think we also go to casinos for differing reasons. My main aim of a visit to a casino is not gambling. My “beggars can’t be choosers” comment was a polite way of saying that you may find it inferior, I don’t - and they ARE the best for miles around. (including I am told, neighbouring countries).
I think we're beating a dead horse here. We agree, my experience and estimation of HC is crappy (based on my expectations), yours is not. My main aim is also not gambling, it is meeting and interacting with other people in a fun environment. I didn't find that, so either you (either because of gender or personality or nationality) can find this social activity easier, or as I said before you brought your own group of friends.
You say your comments about Holland Casinos were in part to “set expectations” for those who may think or expect H.C to be Vegas-like or world-class. In my experience people come to Holland/Amsterdam for varying reasons… most popular reasons being… (in no particular order)
-tulips, windmills, woodenshoes, legalised dope, legalised prostitution, the gay and lesbian scene, canals and canal boats etc… casinos aren’t a “selling point” of a trip to Holland in the way it is to Vegas. I don’t really expect tourists would be looking for the ‘best of the best in the casino-world’ when they come here. However, plane loads come with the highest expectations of the ‘world-famous’ RLD and ARE often disappointed.
Of course people don't come to Amsterdam for the casinos, that is not the point. But they do advertise heavily to tourists and try to get people to spend an evening there. It is advertised as a glamorous European casino, hell, they even ask their guests to dress up before entering. IMO, people like me, who are used to Vegas style casinos or are expecting to play baccarat with James Bond will be disappointed (my expectations weren't that high, but they certainly were more than I got).
For all my friends who visit Amsterdam, I will tell them not to bother with the HC; almost all Americans live within driving distance (by american standards) of a better casino. If HC had something unique (e.g. that Monte Carlo mystique) then it might be worthwhile for us to spend a precious evening of our vacations, but IMO it doesn't.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:41 pm on Oct. 18, 2002
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Chompoo
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How many people do you think walk away from their RLD experience with a certain amount of disappointment? Compare that to how many people walk out of Holland casino disappointed. (I don’t mean disappointed over losing money, I mean disappointed about the décor or game selection). I have never noticed an air of “gee this place sucks” in H.C. But I have been witness manys a time in the RLD to “I expected more”, both from tourists and locals and discussed this very point with more than a few people.
Admittedly I don't have a big sample set, but none of my tourist friends has had great things to say about the HC. The best is just "It's just another casino" ranging down to "I expected more". I think we have very different circles of friends.
Expectations are set too high in both cases, so you go about setting expectations properly for the RLD and I'll do it for the HC. In both cases perhaps we went too far in the other direction to make the activities seem worthless for everyone.
Does the average 1st time visitor to the RLD realise when he agrees the $60 price tag on the doorstep that he will be back on that same doorstep 15 minutes later? Possibly yes, if not… then this thread may help “set expectations” more realistically.
The "average" 1st time visitor has no idea what the price tag is or what the services are. If you're talking about someone who is actually looking to participate, then I can't really say. These days many of them will have done at least some research on the internet and have a vague idea.
But your statement there already carries a value judgement. Most american men would think that spending $60 to have sex with a beatiful girl is not that bad a deal. Over here in most urban areas a fully clothed lapdance will be $20 for one song and in many places the same amount will give you no contact whatsoever.
I never said "conveyer belt" sex with a prostitute WAS any less enjoyable than masturbation? I never compared the two. I don’t compare apples and oranges. I assume everyone masturbates but not everyone (in the position to do so) frequents Dutch RLDs.
They're not apples and oranges. My position is that if someone enjoys masturbation, then what is their reason to not enjoy sex in the RLD?
I will never knock someone for doing something they enjoy (providing of course it’s between consenting adults), but that doesn’t hold that I will find it enjoyable. For me personally it is all too rushed… quick… in and out… clinical. If the average length of time spent with the girl was more in the region of 45 minutes than 15 minutes I would view it differently.
Why do you think it has to be 15 minutes? The girls will certainly stay with you for 45 minutes or two hours if you pay them for their time. Basing your opinion on the average length of time is, IMO, silly. As for clinical, yes it can be, but it varies. But even clinical sex is better than masturbation. I think anyone who doesn't agree with that either does not have a strong sex driver or has some emotional hangups. I'm not saying all sex is good; certainly if the girl has a bad attitude or is repulsive it probably is not as good as masturbation, but that is not the norm and is somewhat up to the consumer. But how is a life-size, flesh and blood f*** toy not better than your own hand? I just don't get that.
Your comments of myself (and or Dave) being judgemental of others when using the term “definitely not my idea of an enjoyable experience” … with all due respect to you Chompoo, I don’t rate your opinion highly enough to change the way I do or say things – let alone question my thinking. Had a person I respect or whose opinion I value said that, possibly (probably) I would have taken more notice. Whether you think I am a judgemental hypocrite is neither here nor there for me.
(p.s. I am not saying I do not respect your opinion… just saying there are others whose opinion I value more and use a “gauge” for myself – that isn’t the case with you – I AM enjoying our exchange of opinions, just not to the extent of “that’s someone whom I really listen to, if they say I am being judgemental then I must have been”)
You don't know me so I wouldn't expect you to question your own beliefs just on my sayso. However, I do feel that pointing out your hypocrisy or lack of comprehension on this topic may make you think twice (maybe not now, but later on down the road).
On a flight to BKK I spoke with 3 men (6 hours long, all the way from Abu Dhabi to BKK) who basically said the “GF experience” was what they travelled to Thailand for and the RLD here was just a means to fill one need compared to the BG’s of Thailand filling many needs (sex, companionship, togetherness, a fun time, drinks, dinner etc).
That is a sensible perspective and not far from my own. However I'll go further and say that while I actually don't have any problems with people paying for sex, I do think it a little sad that people have to pay for friendship. Maybe that is a product of my American upbringing where friends are easy to come by and sex is not (in Thailand it is the opposite).
However they were actually quite scathing of the RLD here which did piss me off slightly.
Well, they probably had some valid criticisms and also some unfair comparisons. I've heard the same from guys complaining abuot escorts, strip clubs, brothels over here. Often their opinions are out of whack with economic realities or they are just plain misogynists.
To sum up… the RLD in Amsterdam is not my idea of a pleasurable experience… not by a long shot. I think the city (and the country as a whole) has far better options in the ‘pay for sex’ market than the city’s RLD. It also has much worse options. (Sloterdijk’s ‘tipple zone’ for those who are aware of it). To those who do enjoy the RLD, best of luck to them and long may they enjoy it. I do not disapprove of the RLD or it’s patrons’, I would just seek to fulfil my needs in another manner more suited to me personally. The sheer speed of it is (for me personally) is it’s major drawback.
To me you still haven't adequately explained why you think the RLD is not pleasurable (not that you have to). The speed is certainly not the issue (as you can spend as long as you like with most girls). The clinical nature of it varies a lot with the girl; you can certainly find girls who are warm or those who just lie there and wait for you to finish (caveat emptor). The girls are often only mechanical and clinical because that's what they get from the guy: "f*** and suck 100 guilder, ok?". Anyone who wants to have a pleasant warmup conversation certainly can find that, it's really not that hard. The girls won't start fawning over you or french kiss just because you're a nice guy, but they usually will react positively. Most guys don't want that (or they want it without paying for it, which is unreasonable).
For someone who doesn't like sex and/or never masturbates, I can understand not finding the RLD experience pleasurable. Or if the person is so lucky as to have hot sex with an attractive partner at their beck and call, then I can also see it. Can you give me other good reasons why the average guy wouldn't take advantage of the RLD once in a while?
There may be better options in Amsterdam. I've been to one of the upscale brothels and it was a different experience than the RLD. It was better in some ways, but worse in others and it was a hell of a lot more expensive. What are the "far better options" available to us and why are they so much better?
The idea of you and your friends making a game of watching guys go in and out of the kamers doesn't bother me that much. I have a thick skin and don't care too much what you think. However, I do think you (maybe your friends more than you) are not being honest with yourselves and are being judgemental of others.
Honestly, what do you guys think when watching this spectacle? Are you thinking "how sad these guys have to resort to this?" What I think is "Isn't it great that there's a place like this where a guy can have a little fun and the girls make a little money without a lot of bullshit."
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 4:54 pm on Oct. 18, 2002
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nokna
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Chompoo wrote.
That is a sensible perspective and not far from my own. However I'll go further and say that while I actually don't have any problems with people paying for sex, I do think it a little sad that people have to pay for friendship. Maybe that is a product of my American upbringing where friends are easy to come by and sex is not (in Thailand it is the opposite).
i may pay for the sex in thailand,but many times i have not paid.
i do not pay for the friendship,most of the girls i have been with have become friends,but of course not all.
if either of us want to continue the relationship after the act,then down to us.
of course some of them i have never seen again,but a few keep in touch with me via e-mail,and others do not.
i enjoy my time in thailand because i meet up with old friends,meet new ones and treat them all as ladies.
a lot of my friends are girls i have never taken home,just know them from the bars and always buy them a drink when i see them.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:13 pm on Oct. 18, 2002
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