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Tsonoqua
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3cazzi (3pricks?):
I disagree with everything you have said, including who gets to write the histories. ÝRead textbooks written in Japan about Japanese history. ÝThose textbooks completely gloss over the war. ÝEven today, over 1/2 century later.
And it's not like America gave Japan the same treatment that Rome gave Carthage either. ÝThink about that.
The "real" reason for the deployment of the atomic bombs was to end WWII. ÝAs Mr. Alan pointed out, using those bombs saved lives.
Further, as Padawan said, when you group the winners and the losers of WWII together morally, you go down a very slippery slope. ÝUnless, of course, you are a racist, a Nazi, a Fascist or a Militarist. ÝWhich I certainly hope that you aren't.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:25 pm on Sep. 3, 2003
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FIB
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Quote: from Tsonoqua on 5:25 am on Sep. 4, 2003
3cazzi (3pricks?):
Further, as Padawan said, when you group the winners and the losers of WWII together morally, you go down a very slippery slope. ÝUnless, of course, you are a racist, a Nazi, a Fascist or a Militarist. ÝWhich I certainly hope that you aren't.
Right, very right... Let's keep the winners together, morally of course. Hmmm... Roosevelt, Churchill and... Stalin...
BTW, what does it all have to do with WW2 and Thailand ?
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 12:50 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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FIB
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Quote: from Mr Alan on 4:35 am on Sep. 4, 2003
France has violated test ban treaties many times in recent years.
Oops... Seems I have also to go off topic... Mr. Alan, would you care to elaborate which test ban treaties France violated many times ?
You wouldn't confuse that with the lifting of a self imposed moratorium, wouldn't you ? And you wouldn't be talking about a not yet completely ratified treaty (CTBT) which was finalized in 97 only after the last French test was performed ?
Not that I supported the French tests of 95-96 (the last ones conducted), but this is just to get the straight facts...
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:04 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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Mr Alan
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OK, you are right. France did not ratify the nuclear test ban treaty until after they finished testing. I guess France is just one of those rogue nations that doesn't care about the rest of the world and just does whatever pleases them.
BTW, I heard that because of the nuclear testing by France, there is no way Chirac will ever be considered for the Nobel Peace prize. Here is information I found about him from ABC news:
"... to the rest of the world, his [Chirac's] brazen decision to continue nuclear testing despite strong international opposition showed blatant disregard for the wishes of the people."
"His refusal to end the nuclear-weapons tests at Mururoa Atoll in French Polynesia angered environmental groups worldwide and elicited scorn in nearby New Zealand and Australia. Acting Australian Prime Minister Kim Beazley said Chiracís defiance demonstrated 'an arrogant disregard' for a U.N. General Assembly resolution calling for a halt to the tests. Chirac finally relented in January 1996, but not before Franceís popularity plunged to an all-time low in the Pacific."
Chirac was also instrumental during the 1970's in selling nuclear technology to Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Israel later bombed the nuclear plant saying the plant was for developing nuclear weapons and not for the energy needs of Iraq (since Iraq sits on the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world).
Here is some more info on Chirac and Iraq from the February 22, 2002 Edmonton Journal:
"Chirac has a 25-year friendship with Saddam, and helped arm him.
French Present Jacques Chirac's championing of peace might have more to do with covering his own past misdeeds than any personal or ideological commitment to preventing war.
Chirac's fingerprints are all over Iraq's nuclear program. Back in the 1970s, when he was premier of France, Chirac freelanced a deal with Iraq's then-vice president Saddam Hussein to sell Iraq a pair of reactors and train 600 Iraqi nuclear scientists and technicians, the bulk of whom are today on the list of 3,500 scientists and engineers UN weapons inspectors want to interview. Chirac even sought to ship Iraq weapons-grade uranium - enough to make three or four nuclear bombs - even though a safer grade was available.
Moreover, Chirac is known to have had a close, personal friendship with Saddam well into the late 1980s. When he became a serious candidate for the French presidency, Chirac ceased to have any further open contact with the Iraqi dictator. It is not know whether the two men maintained their friendship privately thereafter.
Stratfor, short for Strategic Forecasting LLC, a private security-analysis firm with an extensive international intelligence network (www.stratfor.com), reported Thursday that it was able to uncover a quarter-century history between Chirac and Saddam just using publicly available reports and documents. "The relationship dates back to late 1974, "according to Stratfor, when Chirac visited Baghdad to negotiate the sale of the reactors with Saddam.
The French president at the time, Valery Giscard d'Estaing, claimed to know nothing of the reactor deal in advance, an assertion supported by his industry minister of the day, Michel d'Ornano, who accompanied Chirac to Baghdad and was shocked when Chirac sprung the deal on him after it was completed.
Chirac also arranged for "uranium enriched to 93 percent" - a grade easily converted to weapons - to be sent to the Iraqi reactor. But Giscard d'Estaing found out about it before the ore was shipped, and ordered it replaced with "caramel," uranium that was suitable for electrical generation, but just three percent enriched.
The air-defence system coalition pilots encountered around Baghdad during the Gulf War was largely French, sold to Saddam by Chirac, along with 60 Mirage fighters, surface-to-air missiles and advanced radar and computers.
For decades, rumours have circulated throughout the Middle East about the closeness of the friendship between the two. During the Iran-Iraq war, Stratfor relates, "Iranians referred to Chirac as "Shah-Iraq." And for his involvement in the building of Iraq's Osirak reactor (destroyed by Israeli fighter-bombers in 1981), the Israelis dubbed it the "O-Chirac" reactor.
Saddam is thought to have financed part of Chirac's 1977 Parisian mayoral campaign, too.
As recently as 1987, a French newspaper published a letter from Chirac to "my dear friend" Saddam, in which Chirac seemingly, through coyly, offers to help Iraq rebuild its nuclear program.
It is entirely in keeping with Chirac's character - or lack of it - that he would be using peace as a pretext merely to prevent the detection of his personal complicity in Iraq's weapons program. After all, one of the principal reasons Chirac ran for re-election to the presidency last year was to avoid prosecution for corruption. The French president is immune from prosecution, even on criminal matters, during his six-year tenure."
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 1:40 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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kjayson7
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surprised, few of you guys are really in to this topic...i was too but...now i quit lol
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 2:34 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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FIB
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Couldn't agree more with you about Chirac... ÝThe remark about Giscard (and his number one lackey D'Ornano) not knowing about this is utterly naive, of course... And that's not the only reason why Chirac would never get a Nobel Price for Peace if those criteria where used (just make an internet search on his name for more)... But, after all, even Kissinger and Arafat got a Nobel price, so maybe redemption is possible ? Chirac better hurry for that....
BTW, before selling nuclear technology to Irak in the 70s, France sold it to Israel in the 60s (uncompletely as the relation soured later on). Talk about a serial proliferator...
Of course that's only talking about nuclear technology, because if one talks about biological and chemical capacity, well, France did it too !!! France was, with UK and US, one of the evil mass proliferator who sold materials and tehcnology enabling the production of chemical and biological WMD to Irak in the 70s and 80s...
What a world...
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:41 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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Whisper
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I always get a chuckle from that line about how the atomic bombs dropped on Japan helped to save thousands of lives by prematurely ending World War II.
Oh yeah, except for the 100,000 innocent Japanese civillians who unfortunately happened to be instantly vapourised.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:42 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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Triyclops
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Don't forget the Frogs sold Excocet missiles and technology to Argentina both before and during the Falklands Conflict. Don't trust bastards, ever.
TC
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:45 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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craigoz
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RO
Quote "Given that all nations have committed acts of atrocity at some point in their history, would it not be better to regard war as a human activity rather than national ?War is chaos".
How true and one might also regard those nations who Ýprofit the most from the indescriminet sale of arms throughout the world (particularly to those of poor nations) as both the sponsors and instigators of war crimes and world terrorism. Its a little naive to think that a weapon will not be used for the purpose that it was made for - that is to kill, be it a conventional one or WMD.
60% of the worlds arms sales and pressumably profits sits with two nations and is worth in excess of 140Billion per year. "Cant shut or scale down this industry!!! can we!! as it might impact on someones share index value or currency worth.
What those take the high moral ground forget is that "A" sells to "B" and the "B" sells the technology to "C" and "C" modifies and sells to "D" and "D" uses it for his purposes. Also that many countries do not need participate in the sales of arms to have a sound economy. Those countries that do, choose to do so for commercial gain and only that.
"A" then talks the high moral ground and blames D, but "A" wipes his hands clean with all the profits that he had made in the process.
Morally does it make any difference whether you sell a Cluster bomb that has the kills 100-200 or a WMD that can kill 100,000? I mean its only numbers of bodies as one earlier poster inferred.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 3:03 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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kjayson7
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used atomic bombs to end the war quickly? in order to save thousands of American lives? hm...yea that's reasonable...mean people meannn people..lol
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:04 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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