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Triyclops
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Hey, K7,
I thought you had quit this topic. Ý
TC
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:29 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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dagul
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Some of the nicest people I've met throughout my travels around the world were in fact Japanese (and Aussies - they are some real good people too). ÝIt's kind of strange and nice how close Japanese and Americans are today - my friend tells me its a matter of convenience. ÝI hope it is more than just that.
Ý Ý
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 4:28 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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Mr Alan
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Although there were many inaccuracies in "Bowling for Columbine," it is absolutely true that the US supplied arms to the Afghan resistance (against the Russian invasion) and to Iraq (against Iran) in the late 1970's and early 1980's. In hindsight, that may have been an error (or maybe not, it's difficult to know what would have happened otherwise).
But that is not quite the same as providing nuclear technology to Iraq (or Israel as someone else said). The fact the person who spearheaded the sale of nuclear technology (and other WMD) to Iraq (and other countries) is now President of France, is also relevant.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:53 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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Mr Alan
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"used atomic bombs to end the war quickly? in order to save thousands of American lives? hm...yea that's reasonable...mean people meannn people..lol"
kjayson7, I don't think there is anything funny about WWII or the way it ended. But I would like to know from you (and some others) about how many people on both sides would have died had the bomb not been used, and the war had ended with a US invasion of Japan.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 5:57 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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Minder
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I forgot to mention earlier the most famous Allied Intelligence Officer to serve in Thailand during WWII was Jim Thompson later of Thai silk fame and THE Jim Thompson's House.
Many years ago I told my uncle that I thought the dropping of the atom bombs was wrong. ÝHe was a soldier fighting in the "islands" at the time against the Japanese. He said all he knew was that the war would have gone on for several more months and by then he would probably be dead. So he was always glad they dropped them.
I've never had an answer to that.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 8:44 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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Mr Alan
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It would have lasted a lot longer than several more months. The Japanese society was told that Americans were barbarians and the Japanese needed to fight to last person, including women and children. There were no anti-war protests back in those days.
During the Battle of Okinawa in June 1945 (just a few months before Hiroshima), 355 kamikaze suicide attacks on American ships were carried out and 5,000 US soldiers were killed. They were not about to surrender in any other scenario than what occurred after Nagasaki.
"The United States had taken the island [Okinawa] with the loss of 12,000 American lives and 100,000 Japanese lives. Still Japan refused to concede that the Second World War was in effect over. The ultimate surrender of Japan to the Allies would be, according to Japanese cultural norms, an unthinkable dishonor."
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/today/jun21.html
According to another source:
"More people died during the Battle of Okinawa than all those killed during the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Casualties totaled more than 38,000 Americans wounded and 12,000 killed or missing, more than 107,000 Japanese and Okinawan conscripts killed, and perhaps 100,000 Okinawan civilians who perished in the battle."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/okinawa-battle.htm
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:04 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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Minder
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I was just quoting my uncle (actually he is my grandmother's nephew) when I said "several more months". History suggests the war would have gone on a lot longer but I guess "several more months" is typical of the "home by Xmas" attitude that always seems to accompany such events.
Regardess of what any of us think of the decision to use the bombs, clearly others thought it was the right thing to do at the time. Ý It should be remembered that many people felt that stopping after only two bombs was a wrong decision also.
I'm just glad it was my "uncle" and not me who had to deal with that time. ÝWe weren't there and we should be grateful for that.
Lest we forget.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:30 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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3cazzi
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Mr Alan and some others,
I beg to differ my way from those who see reality as a simple thing, where there are the good ones against the bad ones (like in marvel comics) and where the good always prevail on evil (like in tales).
1) Yes, for a civilian there is a big difference between being vaporized and being killed as an unpredictable casualty in a conventional war on military targets.
If you don't see the difference, you probably might suggest to resolve promptly the India-Pakistan quarrel bombing here and there.
Or more over, may be you don't Ýeven the bother about the different ways with which dead penalty can be inflicted... lapidation = lethal injection, Nigeria = Florida ???
2) The theory that the use of 2 bombs saved lives is a story for kids.
What was saved is money... as you can see in Iraq nowadays, to invade a country which doesn't give up is ... extremely expensive.
And then, do you guys really think that the American President was so naive to not be aware that was needed a strong warn to a big nation that was not going to be submissive about its own claims on the victory shares.
3) Tsonoqua, if you read the statement of the surrending conditions for Japan you might understand what they teach in Japanese history classes.
At least the Romans destroyed completely Carthage, they covered the ruins with salt so that nothing could ever grow up there.
In other words, they didn't leave anybody there to teach how good was to be bombed.
An act of power, they claimed it as a cruel revenge never demanding it to be something fair, the stronger prevails on the weaker, that's it.
Nothing to do with good and evil.
4) FIB what does it all have to do with WW2 and Thailand ?
A brother, Padawan if I am not wrong, said that Thai were like Italians: not sharp enough to join the right side, but smart enough to switch to the winner's side before is too late.
I am just saying that there is not a right side when we talk about a war, and to switch to the winners is the only chance you might have while you get involved.
As it is for all of us, if you don't want to get in trouble...
But of course... I am an outsider ! Ý Ýlove & peace
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:35 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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Mr Alan
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3cazzi,
As you suggest, things are not as simple as good and evil. There are a lot of complicating factors on both sides. Only history will judge. But just because international relations are often complex (especially these days), does not mean that every case is ambiguous. Those who claim otherwise have not made even the slightest effort to find out what really happened.
Maybe you should talk to some Chinese, Koreans, or Filipinos who bore the brunt of Japanese aggression before and during WWII, an aggression that was as brutal and barbaric as any in the history of the planet. I am not just talking about brutality against soldiers, but also women and children, not as a result of collateral damage, but inflicted individually to each person, face to face.
On the contrary, you seem to be the one who simplifies war (especially during WWII) as soldiers on the one hand and civilians on the other. Itís not that simple. Who do you think made the planes, ships, and guns the Japanese army used? Back in those days, war was a total effort of one country against another.
A female factory worker manufacturing the armaments of war is no more innocent than an 18-year-old male soldier conscripted in the military. And needless to say, the technology available today to distinguish industrial targets from civilians simply did not exist during WWII. Any analysis of causalities suffered during conventional bombing during WWII would demonstrate that.
I don't think anyone is faulting Thailand for its situation during WWII. There was no way that Thailand could have stopped Japan, and they obviously saw what happened to the countries I mentioned above who resisted Japanese aggression. Of course, that is easy to say so long as someone else is around to fight the battles that need to be fought.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 10:03 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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Minder
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Japan surrendered shortly after the use of the first nuclear weapons and in the face of the threat of further use.
That surrender meant that thousands of people did not die as a result of further conflict.
That is not a story for kids it is a fact.
We can rewrite history all we like but the fact is that the war did end earlier - Japan still had an enormous land area under its control including ALL of Thailand - unlike the Germans who held little more than the ground on which they stood left at the surrender.
This unexpected sudden end to the war (remember the atom bomb was not common knowledge) had several side effects including negating the need for the thousands of armed "Seri Thai" resistance fighters to rise up in a co-ordinated attack against the Japanese forces as previously agreed with the Allied forces.
The Thai Government was understandly concerned by this sudden turn of events as they were "robbed" of the opportunity to show true support for the allied forces and were well aware how some of the Allied leadership (Churchill in particular)regarded their earlier dealings with the Japanese.
It also meant that the "Kill them all" order was not carried out by the Japanese against the thousands of surviving Allied POWs in Malaya and Thailand.
I've never had much trouble picking the good guys from the bad guys in this part of the Second World War.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:07 am on Sep. 4, 2003
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