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derman53
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Under the US Visa requirments it lists people who have engaged in prostitution in the last ten years as being denied a visiting Visa to the US. Have any of you encountered any problems with this in getting Visa's for BG? Thanks
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:23 am on May 14, 2004
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Mr Alan
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If you read the other posts in this forum on that subject, it is very difficult. Even if they suspect that the girl "might" have engaged in prosititution, you will have a very difficult time.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 10:01 am on May 14, 2004
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Hermanolobo
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Mr Alan is correct.
The Thai reputation justified or not has spread.
You will need financial evidence that you can sponsor the girl. Bank statements, wage slips etc etc.
You may have to deposit 100,000 Baht in her bank account. That is a very big risk to take in Thailand.
Pictures of you together, e-mails etc etc.
If you marry the girl it could be a different matter but that brings a whole new set of different problems.
Become a European citizen (except the UK !) as they have signed the Shengen Treaty.
The Spanish Embassy is almost empty of applications for visas in Bangkok. There again who needs Thailand when you have South America ?
Not impossible but difficult !
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:05 am on May 14, 2004
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Triyclops
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STOP! 
Do not deposit any money into her account.
a) You my not get it back. See *** Below
b) It will not fool the authorities. See *** Below
Read this it was compiled by me from a selection of posts about the very same subject:
TYPES OF US VISAS
B-1 Temporary Visitor Visa for business
B-2 Temporary Visitor Visa For pleasure
K-1 Fiancee Visa must marry within 90 days
K-2 Dependent Visa
K-3 Spouses of US citizen living outside US
B-2 Visa will take 3 trips to BKK Embassy (3 days, 4,200bht)
K-1 Visa can take 6 to 12 months to be issued. The first step in permanent immigration. Lots of paperwork.
B-2 Visas, as a rule are not issued to young single Thai girls. The same restrictions don't apply to older Thai women, which may apply to the two positive examples sited.
This is a very long detailed explanation but it may help you:
I have gotten many emails and calls over the years on this issue, not only on Thai cases, but on cases from the Philippines, Russia, Honduras, Costa Rica, etc.
I would like to give a rather lengthy response in the hopes that it will be of some help to you.
The chances of obtaining a B2 for your girlfriend at the BKK Consulate under the specific facts (i.e. you have only known her for a very short time, and she apparently works in the entertainment industry) you describe are very small. She will almost certainly be denied under Section 214 (b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), the most common basis for non-immigrant visa application refusals.
The initial hurdle that must be overcome in most non-immigrant visa applications, Section 214 (b) creates a legal presumption that the applicant is actually an intending immigrant who does not intend to leave the United States at the end of their temporary stay pursuant to the terms of their visa. Section 214 (b) states, in relevant part: "Every alien (other than a non-immigrant described in subparagraph (H) (i), (L) or (V) of Section 101 (a) (15) ) shall be presumed to be an immigrant until he establishes, to the satisfaction of the consular officer, at the time of application for a visa, and the immigration officers, at the time of application for admission, that he is entitled to nonimmigrant status under Section 101 (a) (15)."
The burden of proof is on the applicant to overcome the legal presumption of Section 214 (b) and to convince the consular officer and border inspection officer that they will leave the United States before their period of admission expires. Presenting appropriate evidence or documentation of the applicant's strong ties to the home country is essential in overcoming Section 214 (b). However, it is the quality, reliability and credibility of the documentation that is important, not the quantity. the following are examples of appropriate evidence:
1) Evidence of strong ties to the home country:
- Immediate and extended family present in the home country (and lack of family in the U.S.)
- Career opportunities such as a family business, standing job offers or a history of specific industry employment in the home country. A letter from the employer stating that the applicant has been granted a leave of absence for the duration of their trip and that they may return to their job may be helpful (depending on the type of job and/or employer)
- Membership in social, business, religious, professional, political or other groups, particularly those in which the applicant has invested substantial time or money.
- Current enrollment in University in home country. But, note that enrollment at an elite university with competitive admissions policies such as Chulalongkorn will be more persuasive that enrollment at a less prestigious or "open" university such as Ramkhamhaeng.
- Ownership of property, particularly an actual residence or business property.
NOTE: being the named titleholder to a couple of hectares of farmland upcountry doesn't mean much.
****Also note, foreign boyfriends will often put relatively large amounts of cash in a girlfriend's bank so that girlfriend can show a fat bank statement to the Consular Officer.
Consular Officers are not stupid and one look at a bankbook makes it obvious what is being attempted. Such efforts will only prejudice the Consular Officer against the applicant. Finally, there are many instances of girlfriend being reluctant to return the cash after the visa refusal. Don't do it.****
2) Absence of ties to the U.S. and a good explanation for any existing ties:
- Evidence that any relatives in the U.S. are there temporarily and that they have strong ties to the home country.
- Career opportunities in applicant's field of work are less than in U.S. than in home country (yes, it does happen)
NOTE: Many people feel that their application for a visitor's visa is helped by showing that they have numerous relatives or friends in the U.S. and/or that their trip is being paid for by relative or friends in the U.S. As a practical matter, these factors often work against the applicant because they tend to show strong ties to the U.S. rather than strong ties to the home country. Same for the American boyfriend trying to assure the Consular Officer that he is taking care of everything.
3) History of previous visits to the U.S. and return home under terms of their visa.
- If the applicant has been outside their home country (especially to the U.S.) and returned, it tends to indicate that they will do so again. The best evidence of this is the applicant's current and old passports. A brand new passport may be fine but it may also raise a suspicion that something is being hidden, especially if the new passport is a replacement for a "lost" passport.
4) Adequate financial arrangements for the trip:
- some people recommend a pre-paid round trip ticket although I think that this is a bad idea in an age of discount, non-refundable, non-transferable tickets. If you are going to do this, bite the bullet and by a ticket that you can transfer or refund if you have to.
- Evidence of funds or assets located in or derived from the home country, which will be brought or accessed by the alien while abroad. But see my comments above on Boyfriends padding bank accounts.
- Home Country (or U.S. affiliate) sponsoring employer's obligation for expenses/continuing salary.
5) Specific travel plans
- Detailed itinerary and/or other documents evidencing specific temporary visit plans.
The Foreign Affairs Manual (FAM) section 41.31 Note 2.6 states, "The applicant must demonstrate permanent employment, meaningful business or financial connections, close family ties, or social or cultural associations which will indicate a strong inducement to return
to the country of origin." What constitutes "permanent", "meaningful", or "strong" in any given case are factual determinations which are left to the essentially unappeallable, discretionary judgment of the Consular Officer. Factual, as opposed to legal, findings by Consular Officers, while technically reviewed by a superior service officer are not subject
to formal appeal or review, although a request for reconsideration may be made in some instances.
If a request for reconsideration is made, it will only be taken seriously if accompanied by credible evidence that specifically addresses the Consular Officer's concerns or conclusively establishes that the Consular Officer made an error in a factual determination that was the
basis for the denial. Simple protestations that the Officer got it wrong or expressions of outrage at the unfairness of the decision will get you exactly nowhere, and are a complete waste of the applicant's and the Officers time.
The relevant Foreign Affairs Manual Section is 9 FAM 41.31 and accompanying notes. The notes provide guidance to Consular Officers on specific points and may be helpful in understanding the process. Be aware however, that much of the Foreign Affairs Manual is
advisory, not compulsory, in nature. Quoting FAM sections to a Consular Officer will get you absolutely nowhere unless you are able to discern the legal difference between advisory and non-discretionary supplemental materials to Federal regulations. FAM can be accessed at
http://www.foia.state.gov/famdir/Fam/fam.asp.
With regard to the effect of a B2 refusal, the earlier responses are correct, as far as they go, that a simple refusal, based on section 214 (b) will not prejudice her chance at a K visa. However, a prior refusal can certainly have an effect on future applications for other types of non-immigrant visas, not only for the U.S., but for other countries as well.
Staff at the Consulates of other countries know what an "Application Received" stamp means and may view applications to their countries with a more jaundiced eye if an applicant has been previously rejected by the U.S. "We're as good as the U.S. and if they don't want you, why should we?".
In fairness to the girl, if you don't get a visa and things don't work out between you, shouldn't she make the decision as to whether she wants to potentially jeopardize her chances at a future visa to a country with more liberal visa policies.
Finally, any material misrepresentation may result in far more serious consequences than a denial of a future K1 application. Under section 212 (a) (6) (C) of the INA, the alien may be rendered permanently inadmissible to the United States in any visa category.
INA section 275 (a) makes such conduct a criminal act subject to fines and/or imprisonment up to two (2) years. Misrepresentation in the context of knowingly entering into a marriage for evading any provision of the immigration laws is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment for five (5) years.
With respect to the "bar-girl" stereotype, there is more at issue than a simple tourist visa refusal. If a factual determination is made by a Consular Officer that an applicant has engaged in one or more acts of prostitution, Section 212 (a) (2) (D) comes into play imposing a ten (10) year bar on entry into the U.S. in any visa category.
What constitutes an act of prostitution? Again, that would be a case specific factual determination left to the discretion of the interviewing officer. As an indicator however, applicants at many posts have recently reported being questioned closely about past and/or present boyfriend (s), their relationships, whether they ever traveled together (presumably raising a firm presumption of intimacy), if boyfriends ever gave her gifts (of any kind), etc. In short, the standards are vague, the decisions virtually unreviewable and the consequences may be far reaching (for the girl anyway).
As long as you are informed about the relative risks and benefits, and have considered them, go ahead and let her apply. Lightning does, in fact, occasionally strike. As a kindness to her, however, don't get her hopes up and explain that the system isn't designed to be "fair" it is designed to be efficient at keeping certain people and classes of people out.
I suppose I should also address the issue of "visa agents". A B2 application is largely a self-help procedure and, in fact, the obvious intervention of third parties in the process may raise suspicions that something is wrong or being hidden.
On the other hand, most immigration lawyers give advice similar to that found above and much more on applying for tourists visas as a courtesy to people all the time. A lawyer or "visa agent" has no ability to directly effect the outcome through personal influence and anyone that says they do is either corrupt or a liar or both.
Finally, so "called visa agents" are not bound by any code of professional ethics, have no financial accountability, and will not, because they cannot, sign their name at the bottom of your paperwork making them responsible for the conduct of your case. Save your money and steer well clear.
The only persons allowed by law to represent persons before the BCIS/INS or DOS are licensed attorneys, accredited agents of voluntary aid agencies (Catholic Refugee Services, for example), and a (friend) or family member who is acting in a "one off" situation.
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This may be of interest also:
This is a transcript from an actual K1 visa (K1 is a fiancee Visa) interview:
"And off she goes. For the next 30 minutes I wait patiently. My thoughts going from best case (maybe she is getting her visa issued) to worst case (she found some reason to reject our application). Just when I am about to demand to see my fiancee or at least ask someone what is going on, I see her coming out escorted by the older Thai lady. She is not crying (good thing) so I am thinking what is going on. She comes out and I ask what happened. She had been grilled/interrogated for the last 30 minutes. The Thai lady brought her to a back office and started speaking to her in Khmer. She said if she answered all her questions truthfully she would be OK but if she lied she was going to jail (I didn't believe it when I heard it). Anyways, it was the standard stuff. She wanted to know the entire story on how a girl from Isarn can be in BKK, meet a farang, and not work in the Bars. Well, believe it or not it happens. I imagine it was a pretty intimidating situation. Fortunately it is easy to tell the truth. Well, once she turns in her ID, we get the visa.
I don't know if I am happy or pissed. I cannot believe a Thai national has the authority/ability to interrogate my fiancee and then decide if she/we are lying and then issue a visa on her beliefs. Perhaps a few of you will write back; what was she wearing, how old is she, etc. Here is the deal; I am a 29-year-old man. She is 28, she speaks decent English, she wore a business suit with appropriate footwear (which I helped her pick out). We presented our documents and our appearance in a very professional manner. Why did we get interrogated? I don't know. It was pretty weird. For those of you who have gone through this process, I am sure you can understand, I just want the visa. We have the visa (once we get the ID card) but I don't think it was appropriate/professional to have my fiancee treated the way she was. I am truly embarrassed and ashamed by the entire process she has had to endure (from day one with the I-129F to the embassy). I am ashamed that she had to go through that treatment by consular officials from the United States Embassy. Are we legally free to marry? Did we fill out all the documents correctly?? Can I support her?? Is she a threat to national security?? It is not our problem there is a Bar scene in Thailand. I feel helpless as far as being able to do something about it. Give us our visa and let us go on with our life."
The US consular staff has the attitude ALL ISAN GIRLS ARE PROSTITUTES.
Finally:
I got a lot of PM on this subject and I want to add some advice for the men bringing their TG's to the USA.
Yesterday, I was at the USA Embassy and you could easily spot all the BG's with their boyfriends in hand among the group. Not that these girls were bad looking as they were not; they were hot. But rather they were dressed up for a night on the town. One TG had rhinestone high heels on.
If you plan on making the long-term investment in marrying a BG I would invest in a nice set of business suit attire for your girlfriend. Take a look at what the TG's wear at lunchtime next to a business office and go down to Emporium and buy a nice suit for your potential wife or have a nice suit made at a tailor.
Yes, you can argue you should not judge a person by the clothes they where, but remain focused on the goal of getting a VISA and the agent has little to go on besides looks. After you are done you can chuck the business suit and put the high heel back on and have fun.
Getting a VISA is just another game and if you want to break the rules most likely you will lose. Dress your TG up and most likely you will be a winner. Good Luck guys.
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Again I (TC) did not write this I just UTFSE and cut and pasted what I thought would be an informative bit of information for you Shermans out there.. 
Guess I need to get a job.. or a life..
Hope that helps.
TC
ps. It would be easier to move to LOS...5555
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 11:32 am on May 14, 2004
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hzink
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> ps. It would be easier to move to LOS...5555
Chortle - I'd say.
Now, interesting contrasting information, going along with what Hermanolobo said -- it's different if you're a European citizen.
I have been playing around with the idea of bringing a girl over on a tourist visa (*ONLY*) just to see if it can be done, particularly if it is said that it's so difficult.
Well, it turns out that if I wanted to bring a girl to Austria (my country) on a vacation, it seems far easier -- all she needs is a letter of invitation from whoever invites her (in this case, that could be my sister, as she actually lives in Austria), an airline ticket with return and return date, and proof of health insurance for the duration of her stay. Of course, there's still a short interview, but that's essentially it, and there are no horror stories (at least, as far as what the consulra officer said).
Now, my devious mind of course thinks further along - what if we then want to bring her to the US, as a tourist still, from Austria...? What applies then?
Harry
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:16 pm on May 14, 2004
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LivinLOS
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Yes the horror stories listed many many times on this forum simply have no bearing on my experiences in Europe (schengen) or UK.
Both myself and my brother have taken multiple TG's back to Europe and UK and each and every time it was a breeze..
For my main girl it was walk into the UK embassy at 8AM and had agreement for the visa (to collect that afternoon) one hour later...
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:49 am on May 15, 2004
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