| |
dirty guru
|
FIRSTLY FAKE GOODS
It will continue
-to stop it,would place enormous burdens on many disadvantaged Thais.
Some reading from an article
Below paragraph most telling
Other cultural differences also exist. The stratification of upper, middle, and lower classes is mostly based on the past social hierarchy (sakdi na) and the family's financial powers. This social stratification is no longer enforced by contemporary law, but its presence is recognized by most Thais. There is also a distinction between urban and rural Thais. Constituting a majority of the Thai population, people in the rural villages of Thailand have led more-simple lives rooted in rich traditions, with less interference from international cultures or capitalism. Urban Thailand, on the other hand, has gained its cultural richness from the diverse social classes, ethnicities, and international cultures. The rural/urban division is still highly salient to most Thais, even though the differences have become gradually smaller due to the media, improved communication and transportation, and the migration of rural Thais to find work in big cities
The other aspects
The tolerant philosophy of Buddhism and the constitutional guarantees of religious freedom have provided a fertile ground for adoption and admixing new religious beliefs with traditional beliefs. In the Thai eyes, the superstition and metaphysics in animism, demonology, and Hinduist cosmology are not at odds with the Buddhist cosmology depicted in the Buddhist canon and religious folk tales. These strands of belief systems maintain peaceful coexistence, and many Thais follow some of these practices to a certain degree during different parts of their lives.
Although the guidelines to achieve nirvana are offered, Buddhism emphasizes to the laity “the middle way” and the importance of avoiding extremism. This pragmatic approach is also seen in the domain of sexuality. Despite the deprecation of sexuality in the ideal Buddhism, celibacy is likely to be pertinent only to the monastic lifestyle, while diverse sexual expression has been tolerated among the lay followers, especially the men for whom sexual, military, and social prowess has always been extolled (Cabezón 1993). The Five Precepts are guidelines for lay Buddhists “for a socially-just life, free of exploitation of oneself and others.” Again, pragmatism prevails: All of the Precepts are not rigidly expected in most lay Buddhists in Thailand (as well as in other Buddhist cultures) except for the elderly or extraordinarily pious lay persons (Cabezón 1993).
The Third Buddhist Precept specifically addresses human sexuality: refrain from sexual misconduct or “wrong doing in sexual matters.” Although being open to various interpretations, depending on the different contexts, malfeasance is usually considered by Thai people to mean adultery, rape, sexual abuse of children, and careless sexual activities that result in the sorrow of others (Allyn 1991). Premarital sex, prostitution, masturbation, cross-gendered behavior, and homosexuality, on the other hand, are not explicitly mentioned. Any objection to some of these sexual phenomena is perhaps grounded in other non-Buddhist beliefs, such as classism, animism, or Western medical theories. In subsequent sections, we will present further discussions on the Buddhist attitudes toward homosexuality (Section 6) and commercial sex (Section 8B).
Gender Roles in Theravada Buddhism and Their Implications
Many ideal images for men and women are found in religious folk tales, which the monks read or retell during sermons (thetsana). These sermons, although rarely translated from the Buddhist canon (Tripitaka or Phra Trai-pidok in Thai), are taken by most Thais as the authentic teachings of the Buddha (Keyes 1984). Similarly, other ritual traditions, folk operas, and local legends contain gender-relevant images in the depiction of men and women's lives, both sovereign and common, showing their sins and merits through their actions and relationships, all of which purportedly convey Buddhist messages. Thereby, the Theravada world view, both authentic and interpreted through the Thai eyes, has exerted enormous influences on the gender construction in Thailand.
With a firm belief in karma and reincarnation, Thai people are concerned with accumulating merit in everyday life in order to attain an enhanced status in rebirth rather than striving for nirvana (Kirsch, 1982). Earning merit and an enhanced rebirth status are depicted in the story of Prince Vessantara (or Phra Vessandon in Thai pronunciation), who is reborn in his next life as the historic Buddha because of his unconditional generosity expressed by giving away his valuables, including his wealth, children, and wife. In real life, men and women “make merit,” and the Theravada culture prescribes different ways for this quest. The ideal “merit making” for men is through ordination in the Sangha (order of monks, or in Thai, Phra Song). Women, on the other hand, are not allowed to be ordained. Although the order of Bhikkhuni (the female equivalent to the Sangha monks) was established by the Buddha with some reluctance, the practice disappeared from Sri Lanka and India after several centuries and never existed in Southeast Asia (Keyes 1984; P. Van Esterik 1982). Today, lay women can intensify their Buddhist practice by becoming mae chii, (often erroneously translated to “nun”). These are lay female ascetics who shave their heads and wear white robes. Although mae chii abstain from worldly pleasures and sexuality, the laity consider giving alms to mae chii a lesser merit-making activity than alms given to the monks. Hence, these women usually depend on themselves and/or on their relatives for the necessities of life. Obviously, mae chii are not as highly regarded as monks, and indeed many mae chii are even perceived negatively (P. Van Esterik 1982).
The fact that the Buddhist religious roles for women are underdeveloped has led Kirsch (1985) to comment that women in Theravada societies are “religiously disadvantaged.” Conventionally, the exclusion of women from monastic roles has been rationalized by the view that women are less ready than men to attain the Buddhist salvation because of their deeper enmeshment in worldly matters. Instead, women's greatest contribution to Buddhism lies in their secular role through enabling the religious pursuit for the men in their lives. Hence, the role for women in religion is characterized by the mother-nurturer image: Women support and provide for Buddhism byway of “giving” young men to the Sangha, and “nurturing” the religion by alms giving (Keyes 1984). The ways in which Thai women constantly support Buddhist institutions and contribute to various spiritual functions in their communities have been well illustrated in Penny Van Esterik's work (1982).
This mother-nurturer image is also prominent in the Thai women's secular pursuits. Women are expected to provide for the well-being of their husbands, children, and parents. As pointed out by Kirsch (1985), this historical mother-nurturer role has had a self-perpetuating effect on the exclusion of women from monastic roles. Because women are barred from the monastic position, and because the weight of filial and family obligations falls more on women than on men, women are doubly locked in the same secular mother-nurturer role with no other options. They, therefore, are indeed enmeshed in worldly matters, and their redemption lies in the actions of the men in their lives.
Two important religious texts illustrate this condition. In the tale of Prince Vessantara, his wife, Queen Maddi, is praised because of her unconditional support of his generosity. In Anisong Buat (“Blessings of Ordination”), a woman with no merit is saved from hell because she had allowed her son to be ordained as a monk (Keyes 1984). In reality, the mother-nurturer image entails a certain life path for women, as noted by Kirsch (1985, p. 319) : “Under typical circumstances young women could expect to remain rooted in village life, eventually snaring a husband, having children, and 'replacing' their mothers.”
Men, as seen in the depiction of Prince Vessantara and the young son with religious aspirations in the “Blessings of Ordination,” are afforded autonomy, as well as geographic and social mobility, to pursue both religious and secular goals, therefore “affirming” the conventional wisdom that men are more ready than women to give up attachments.
Undoubtedly, these differential role prescriptions for men and women have led to a clear division of labor along gender lines. Thai women's role of mother and their routine merit-making activities necessitate their specialization in economic-entrepreneurial activities, such as small-scale trading, productive activities in the field, and craft work at home. Thai men, encouraged by the logistic freedom, prefer political-bureaucratic activities, particularly those in government service (Kirsch 1982). The connection between monastic institutions and polity has always been salient to Thai people (see Kirsch 1982; J. Van Esterik 1982), therefore, positions in bureaucracy and politics represent a man's ideal pursuit should he choose to excel in the secular role. In the nineteenth century, more Thai men began to strive for secular success when the Buddhist reformation in Thailand demanded more intensified discipline in monks; this coincided with an expansion of government occupations that resulted from a bureaucratic system reorganization in the 1890s (Kirsch 1982).
Becoming a temporary member of the monkhood has long been seen in Thailand as a rite of passage which demarcates Thai men's transformation from “raw” to “ripe,” or from immature men to scholars or wise men (bundit, from Pali pandit). In Sathian Kosed's Popular Buddhism in Thailand (published in Rajadhon, 1961), young Buddhist men, upon turning 20 years old, are expected to become a monk for the period of about three months during the Buddhist Lenten period. Because the merit from ordination of a married man will be transferred to his wife (and because she must consent to his ordination), parents are understandably anxious to see that their sons are ordained before they get married. Traditionally, a “raw” unordained adult man would be seen as uneducated and, therefore, not a suitable man to be a husband or son-in-law. The man's girlfriend or fiancée, therefore, delights in his temporary monkhood as it should enhance her parents' approval of him. She often sees this as a sign of relationship commitment, and promises to wait patiently for the day he leaves his monkhood at the end of the Lenten period. In Thai society today, this practice of ordination has changed and is less significant, as men are more involved in secular education or occupied by their employment. Statistics show that today, members of the Sangha account for a smaller percent of the male population than in earlier times (Keyes 1984). As early as the late 1940s, when Sathian Kosed wrote Popular Buddhism in Thailand, there were already some signs of weakening customs around the Buddhist ordination.
Many other phenomena related to gender and sexuality in Thailand today can be traced to the Theravada world view. As will be more evident in subsequent discussions, the Thai culture exhibits a double standard, which gives men a greater latitude to express their sexuality and other “deviant” behaviors (e.g., drinking, gambling, and extramarital sex). Keyes (1984) has pointed out that whereas women are seen as inherently close to the Buddha's teachings about sufferings, men require the discipline of ordination in order to achieve this insight, for they tend to digress from the Buddhist Precepts. With Keyes' notion in mind, we can speculate that Thai men perceive that demeritorious behaviors can be amended through their eventual ordination. Up to 70 percent of all men in central Thailand become monks on a temporary basis (J. Van Esterik 1982). Other adult males renounce “worldly” living to be ordained to the Sangha, living a midlife or old age “robed in yellow” as is commonly said in Thai. With such redemptive options, Thai men may feel little need to suppress their passions and vices. These attachments are, after all, easy to give up and are insubstantial compared to the salvation available to them in their twilight years.
On the contrary, women's lack of access to direct religious salvation makes them work harder to maintain virtuous lives, which means refraining from and disapproving of sexual indulgences, in order to keep their demerit to a minimum. With no access to formal Buddhist scholastic activities, it is unlikely that women would be able to discern which virtues and sins were defined by the Theravada values and which by the local gender construction (see discussion of kulasatrii in Section 1A). Further, because women believe that their strongest merit is to be a mother of a son who is ordained, the pressure on women to marry and have a family is heightened. They must do everything to enhance their likelihood of marriage, perhaps including adherence to the ideal female images no matter how difficult. Viewed this way, both men and women in Thai society strongly endorse a double standard regarding gender and sexuality, albeit for different reasons.
Key Beliefs in the Thai Constructions of Gender and Sexuality
Before we proceed to other topics, it may be helpful to summarize the key strands of world views which will be apparent in subsequent discussions of gender and sexuality in Thailand. The most important influences are religious belief systems. Not only do the Five Buddhist Precepts constitute the ethical guidelines for lay people, the Theravada gender images have been passed on to the society through sermons, folk tales and operas, and rituals. Animistic and Hinduist beliefs are embedded in the Thai consciousness through these folk tales, as is evident in metaphysical cosmology and entities, angels and ghosts, heavens and hells.
Other influences can also be identified in contemporary Thai society. For example, the consumerist and capitalist ideology is evident in commercial sex and pornography industries. More recently added to the mix is the newer generation's perception of sexuality in contemporary Europe, North America, and Japan, often interpreted as “modern,” liberal, or hedonistic. Another school of thought present in the educated, urban middle class is the Western medical models of diseases and deviance, as well as psychological theories of sexuality; the Thai translations for “the subconscious,” “latent,” or “ego” are not uncommon in the conversation among the educated. Among other members of the same social strata, one can also discern the rise of contemporaneous Western ideological and political movements, such as feminism, women's studies, and the gay/lesbian identity. In a similar vein, the humanistic approach to understanding sexuality has become more visible in recent years, although it is often mislabeled as “modern,” “Western,” or “radical.” Unfortunately, the humanistic movement may suffer from such misrepresentations in the present cultural climate in which Thai tradition is seen as threatened by Western influences, and many Thai intellectuals are paying lip service to the conservation of traditional Thai identity.
B. Ethnic Differences and Social Structure
Today, there are four regions of Thailand with distinct cultures: the north, the northeast, the central area, and the south. Although regional and cultural differences exist, there is a strong national identity, and the central Thai language is taught and understood throughout the country. This is enhanced by a well-developed mass media and communications system, a good telephone service, and a reliable transportation system servicing all parts of the country. The only exception to this is the hill tribe people in the mountainous regions that surround northern Thailand. The hill tribe people migrated south from China and have remained relatively separate and distinct. However, as the government cracks down on the growing of poppies (for opium and heroin production) and deforestation, the hill tribe people have been moving into the lowlands of Thailand or, through better roads and transportation, commute regularly into the lowland cities for work. Hill tribe people have maintained their own languages, cultures, and customs in the past several centuries. More details on the lives of hill tribe populations can be found in the books edited by Nancy Eberhardt (1988) and McKinnon and Bhruksasri (1983).
Other cultural differences also exist. The stratification of upper, middle, and lower classes is mostly based on the past social hierarchy (sakdi na) and the family's financial powers. This social stratification is no longer enforced by contemporary law, but its presence is recognized by most Thais. There is also a distinction between urban and rural Thais. Constituting a majority of the Thai population, people in the rural villages of Thailand have led more-simple lives rooted in rich traditions, with less interference from international cultures or capitalism. Urban Thailand, on the other hand, has gained its cultural richness from the diverse social classes, ethnicities, and international cultures. The rural/urban division is still highly salient to most Thais, even though the differences have become gradually smaller due to the media, improved communication and transportation, and the migration of rural Thais to find work in big cities. Among other changes, gender and sexuality in rural villagers today have been greatly adulterated by the urban cultural images through the ubiquitous popular media (Keyes 1984).
In addition, there is also an ethnic division between the Thais and the 10 percent of the population who are of Chinese descent. Mostly excluded from the upper echelons of nobility, Sino-Thai people have gained power and status through commerce. The ethnic Chinese in Thailand have managed to blend well into the urban middle-class communities with particularly great contributions in commerce and, more recently, the sciences, while still maintaining their traditional heritage through customs and Confucian family values. Despite the longstanding tradition of classes, social mobility is common, and the ethnic Chinese stand as examples of “rags-to-riches” possibilities (Kirsch 1982). Racial prejudice exists on a subtle level, but has never resulted in overt segregation or violence, even during the anti-Chinese nationalistic government in 1939. Readers who are interested in the lives of Chinese and Sino-Thai peoples in Thailand are referred to the work of Anne Maxwell Hill (1988) and William Skinner (1957).
It is important to bear in mind these cultural, regional, and ethnic differences, because they significantly limit generalizations about the sexual attitudes and values in Thailand. In this chapter, a majority of the research data on sexual attitudes and behavior has been derived from samples of lower- and middle-class ethnic Thais. Most empirical studies have been conducted in urban cities, such as Bangkok and Chiangmai, although data from the rural villages of the north and the northeast account for a considerable portion of our review. In addition, Thailand's rapid economic progress in recent decades has had a dramatic impact on every level of sociocultural structures. Likewise, the nature of gender and sexuality in Thai society is undergoing rapid transformations. As a result, the great degree of flux and heterogeneity in Thai society demands that we pay great attention to the contexts in our attempt to understand gender and sexuality in Thailand.
|
Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:53 pm on April 12, 2012
|
|
koolbreez
|
Who taught him how to cut, and paste? You should be strung up in front of NANA with your dick hanging out for the ladyboys to play with, then castrated.
What has anything on this particular page have to do with pirated goods?
This is a perfect example that snoops is in fact DG. Neither one has a clue about what this thread is dealing with, and both digress into a different topic at the same time. Coincidence? I think not....hahahahahahahaha.
The last sensible post was MadFrog. That addressed the fake goods topic spot on.
Then the page turned, and DG lost concentration completely. Kinda sounds like a Catholic celebacy problem doesn't it....lolol.
A good example of the fake DG starting this page, then trying to divert attention away from himself. Will the real fake DG please get back on topic.
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 11:45 am on April 13, 2012
|
|
snoops
|
I was responfing to magnums point in his most recent post. Please read.
It is a wonder no action on this site, mainly due to the arrogance of many like previous poster.
DG tries his best to keep this place going, some of his threads die and others have response.....................so let it be.
|
Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:25 pm on April 13, 2012
|
|
dirty guru
|
Koolbreeze is known for his oversights and emotional outbursts....not to mention his silly conspiracy theories....
He wouldn't have made the connection with Magnums' post.
Last week when I asked about" how to make an I pad work in Thailand...?".he said "turn it on."
( but thanks for the support anyhow Snoops : 
Anyhow back on thread.
Thais have a habit of pretending to crack down on stuff like bar hours and prostitution on Soi 6 for example.
The Crack down on fake goods might well have stepped up somewhat.....but it will ease, the reality is Thailand has so much economic turnover from it, the elimination of the trade would hurt too many for it to be truely enforced.
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 2:32 pm on April 13, 2012
|
|
magnum
|
Quote: from dirty guru on 11:53 am on April 13, 2012
The Five Precepts are guidelines for lay Buddhists “for a socially-just life, free of exploitation of oneself and others.”
... so, how's that working for Thailand so far?... were I a Thai Buddhist, I'd go get some new Precepts.
... this thread got way off point maybe because of me... anything a Thai is going to do (ignoring laws on pirated goods) can be understood by their cultural values... sorry to divert so far out.
... but, DG... please share with me your source on the above excerpt... you know I look for this stuff.
|
Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 7:30 pm on April 13, 2012
|
|
dirty guru
|
It was to highlight the hypocrisy in Thai culture which is sort of relevant to the thread...and yes it's not going so well agreed. ( 5 precepts)
My source is there somewhere....this is an I pad so I will in the course of the day find it in my history.
Currently driving a water taxi....so give me a while and I will share it here.
Sorry I didn't include source yesterday.
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:34 pm on April 13, 2012
|
|
|
|
vox
|
Quote: from snoops on 12:25 am on April 14, 2012
I was responfing to magnums point in his most recent post. Please read.
Okay, now at least maybe we can stop this fantasy that "Snoops" is not actually Dirty Guru...
Koolbreeze calls out (rightly) a DG post for bullshit/off-topicness and Snoops responds (obviously without thinking first) with the above quote, using "I was responding...."
Who the f*** did he think he was fooling??
|
Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:04 pm on April 13, 2012
|
|
expatchuck
|
Quote: from vox on 10:04 am on April 14, 2012
Quote: from snoops on 12:25 am on April 14, 2012
I was responfing to magnums point in his most recent post. Please read.
Okay, now at least maybe we can stop this fantasy that "Snoops" is not actually Dirty Guru...
Koolbreeze calls out (rightly) a DG post for bullshit/off-topicness and Snoops responds (obviously without thinking first) with the above quote, using "I was responding...."
Who the f*** did he think he was fooling??
So you think BK is lying too? 
|
Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 10:43 pm on April 13, 2012
|
|
snoops
|
i really was responding to something in magnums post.............lol. Something about a scientist or whatever being fearful of raising kids in thailad. I agreed -only lunatics would do it,even if they were doing it on an ex-pat package.
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:49 pm on April 13, 2012
|
|
| |
|
