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caronte
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DrL, don't worry about MN...it's under the effect of a overload of bbq lamb!
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:17 am on Aug. 18, 2004
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sorapong
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While it is a huge pain in the ass the way that many Thais -- and Asians from other nations, and farangs who live here in LOS who seem to have adopted the behavior -- won’t let passengers off the Skytrain or the elevator before barging on, or cut to the front of the line at the 7-11, it has nothing to do with a lack of kreng jai. These are instances of “mai mee ma-ri-aht” -- no manners. People do this not because they don’t “get” the concept of kreng jai; kreng jai doesn’t apply in those situations. (There is a very good description of this sort of thing in Mont Redmond’s *Wondering into Thai Culture*; sorry to have actually read a few books, Dr Love.)
Kreng jai doesn’t come into play in situations like those because those are situations where, in the supposed anonymity of public/mass encounters, one ostensibly needn’t be worried about the later repercussions of whatever it is you are doing. Everyone is thought, by social concensus it seems, to be anonymous and equal in the Skytrain horde or the minimart queue, or in traffic. Those are some of the few places where one needn’t know or worry about the status of the other people immediately surrounding them; its a mob, its unlikely I’m cutting off my boss in the queue, and everyone else is being rude, so I’ll just be rude, too. I’m not condoning this reasoning by a long shot, just saying that it underlies behavior in those situations. In situations like those, I am sorry to say, it appears the great majority of Thais fall into the category, “mai mee ma-ri-aht” -- they have no manners.
Kreng jai has more to do with worrying that asking someone for something, or letting someone do something for you, will come back to cause you difficulty, or obligate you to later repayment or return of favors later. Kreng jai has only tangential connections to “shyness” or “respect” as such; it is a much punier, scared-sh_tless-about-losing-face or worried-I-might-actually-have-to-do-something-myself-for-this-person-later sort of mentality. I’m not trying to say that Scout is disengenuous about his reasons for declining the dinner invite he uses as an example; nor am I saying that kreng jai, in its most humble, generous, don’t-wish-to-trouble-others incarnations, isn’t a terrific concept. I’m just saying that Kreng jai is one of those Thai concepts that tend to get explained in such a way as to make them seem like a great act of sacrifice and consideration for others, but in practice looks rather less altruistic.
Examples of kreng jai in actual practice: No thanks, I’d rather you didn’t buy me dinner because a] I don’t know you well enough to know what others might think of me if they saw me with you, or b] you might expect, or I might feel on my own, some sense of obligation (probably monetary) arising from my having accepted your offer, and I don’t want that burdon. Or, c] I won’t play my stereo too loud because you might do the same to me when I’m trying to sleep, or you might call the building manager, or your brother the gangster to come sort me out. Those don’t strike me as deferences arising from any great bounty of heart warmth for your fellow man, individually or culturally.
Thais have as many ways of being rude as they have of being gracious, generous and kind -- much like most other nationalities. Thai’s also have ways of explaining away their own timidity and/or cowardice, and some of them are prettied-up by giving them heart phrases like kreng jai. Gee, I wonder what the heart phrase is for asking someone you’ve just met what their monthly income is, or plopping down next to them in a go-go bar and pouting “yak dai kola!”
p.s. naughty -- what a balancing act: drunk and moronic at the same time.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:18 am on Aug. 18, 2004
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Abrak
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Quote: from sorapong on 6:18 pm on Aug. 18, 2004
Kreng jai doesn’t come into play in situations like those because those are situations where, in the supposed anonymity of public/mass encounters, one ostensibly needn’t be worried about the later repercussions of whatever it is you are doing. Everyone is thought, by social concensus it seems, to be anonymous and equal in the Skytrain horde or the minimart queue, or in traffic. Those are some of the few places where one needn’t know or worry about the status of the other people immediately surrounding them; its a mob, its unlikely I’m cutting off my boss in the queue, and everyone else is being rude, so I’ll just be rude, too. I’m not condoning this reasoning by a long shot, just saying that it underlies behavior in those situations.
Very well put and explained Sorapong...
I think you are absolutely right that the social order is such here that those few occasions when anonymity allows a thai to not even have to consider 'krenjai' etc. are taken full advantage of.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 6:27 am on Aug. 18, 2004
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MaximusNaughtinus
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Hmmmm, SollyPog, funny how you should jump on your computer just moments after me asking someone by sms about that, but thanks for the compliment anyway. I can actually do 3 things at once if I try hard enough.
By the way, hows the relatives going, got every bar in NEP covered yet, lol, you need to stop taking the piss, you you you yourine. Cow towing, just like you said and you would know all about that wouldn't you.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:30 am on Aug. 18, 2004
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Abrak
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N/M guys cant multi-task only girls can....
I know you wanna be a girl and all, but it hasnt happened yet...
I notice you assume that if you come back as a girl you come back as a 9 or 10... rather than a 2 or something... and I suppose you are 20 as well... rather than 30 or 40....
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:36 am on Aug. 18, 2004
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MaximusNaughtinus
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Of course I will come back as 9, there are no 10's, that is a given, my rules dont forget. If I came back as a 2, there would be a danger that I might hook up with BigD and that would lead to suicide and then the whole process has to start again.
I can multi task, well I used to in the good old days, I can still use all 4 limbs to control 5 functions at once.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:43 am on Aug. 18, 2004
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Thor
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Quote: from sorapong on 6:18 pm on Aug. 18, 2004
...
Kreng jai doesn’t come into play in situations like those because those are situations where, in the supposed anonymity of public/mass encounters, one ostensibly needn’t be worried about the later repercussions of whatever it is you are doing.....<snip>
Nice discussion, sorapong. Thanks.
- Thor
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:26 pm on Aug. 18, 2004
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DrLove
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Nice discussion, sorapong. Thanks.
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Yes, he did some reading the last weeks..... Just be careful, Sorapong, don't get charged with plagiarism...
I change Sorapong's title from Master of Dictionaries to Bookworm.
Now the next step in your personal development.. learning to google....
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 9:50 pm on Aug. 18, 2004
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sorapong
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Durr L --
you are truly pathetic: you can't form a complete sentence, can't spell, have apparently never had a complete thought, and yet remain so proud about your absolute fear of words, dictionaries, and books. was school really so traumatic for you? is your own cognitive incompetence so terrifying that you have to come trundling in and bellow about your tremors and deficiencies every time I so easily flick you from your high chair?
and the funniest thing is how mortified you become whenever someone agrees or says something affirmative to me.
you know, it's definitely a horse race, given all the serious contenders for the prize, but you truly are the reigning dolt-king of bkktonite.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:55 pm on Aug. 18, 2004
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