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Arcadius
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When you agree to a price with a BG. Pay the agreed price and no more.
And what has she agreed? To have sex with you and no more. No need to bother putting herself out. In fact, no real need to go beyond the basic starfish.
I always tip a girl (via 'taxi money') who I think has performed above and beyond the call of duty. I don't think it hurts at all for them to think they may get a bit extra if they do this, and it doesn't kill you to show that you recognise and appreciate good service.
No need to spell your intentions out in advance.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:26 am on Dec. 29, 2003
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Vancouver Jay
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I agree with that, Arky, more or less. The "no real need to go beyond the basic starfish" bit is tricky though. There is, or seems to be, a "standard of performance" issue in all this: that is, what is the punter really buying?
Sex, certainly, but how much more beyond a "hole to f_ck" is the girl really expected to provide as a baseline? I'd like to say "something", but without an enforcement mechanism in the transaction, there's nothing to sweeten the deal.
With the policy of most boards being to protect the girls' identities, and the small percentage of punters who actually read them, there's no downside for a starfish. There's no 'Consumer Reports' Better Business Bureau or anything like that which exists in conventional goods and services. (And "starfish" may actually be a valid tactic to obtain long-term sponsorship by demonstrating inexperience and a remnant of chastity. Another conversation, for sure.)
Now, I recall reading one guy on another board who actually works from a schedule. Something like 400 for each orgasm he has plus 50 baht for hour of the girl's time and 200 baht more for taxi money on LT.
This strikes me as a little over the top and would probably take longer to explain to most of the girls than it would to actually fire the first shot (at least in my pathetic case anyway...)
The compromise, if I may disagree directly, is to make a point of spelling your intentions out in advance. Cut a bargain-baesment deal as "starfish insurance" with a promise of a good tip based on some conditionals. Almost everyone works harder when incentived.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 6:11 am on Dec. 29, 2003
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The Machine
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I don't mean to tip but unfortunately I do.
I suppose the thing is that when in Thailand the money is like play money and well I am on holidays etc
BUT I certainly don't tip if unhappy with the service.....
Taxi drivers I always tip and often the TG's try and grab the tip and say that I shouldn't tip so much to the drivers but funnily enough they don't knock back any tips I leave them!
Up to you whether you tip or not.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:15 am on Dec. 29, 2003
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eyeswideopen
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Quote: from Vancouver Jay on 7:11 pm on Dec. 29, 2003
The "no real need to go beyond the basic starfish" bit is tricky though. there's no downside for a starfish. There's no 'Consumer Reports' Better Business Bureau or anything like that which exists in conventional goods and services. (And "starfish" may actually be a valid tactic to obtain long-term sponsorship by demonstrating inexperience and a remnant of chastity. Another conversation, for sure.)
VJ I think you provided your own rebuttal. There may be no downside but they are definitely making a choice about eschewing the upside also. The starfish experience generally precludes a rematch. Thus certainly no future engagement. of course no sponsorship. A future filled with more f_cking for less money as many short times are needed to equal one fat walleted sponsor (or better yet, sponsors). Now the smart ones blow your mind a few times initially and then you...well, you know what happens then.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 6:23 am on Dec. 29, 2003
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Arcadius
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The starfish experience generally precludes a rematch
Yes it does - but I think that the way some girls operate (eg, specialist ST operators in popular bars), this doesn't matter. They prey mainly on package tourists and new arrivals and there's plenty more where you came from (the main thing is just to get rid of you asap and back into the bar). Experienced visitors and expats recognise and avoid this kind of BG, but they presumably know that and don't care.
Re the starfish more generally - I agree with VJ that this falls below reasonable expectations, and I think it most commonly represents some kind of 'work to rule'. Maybe she felt pressured into going with you when she wasn't keen, or you've managed to piss her off somehow (for this reason, I think bargaining BGs down hard can be wholly counter-productive). The problem is that you have no real come-back. Her side of the bargain was for sex, not good sex. Whatever else she wants to give you is up to her. It's probably best to think of this as her way of incentivising YOU not to be a jerk.
Whether you want to directly incentivise HER to perform is up to you. I don't think it's necessary myself - if you spent time with her before barfining her, you'll have a pretty good idea what kind of BG she is. Of course, she'll also have have sussed out (probably more accurately) what kind of customer you are.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 7:41 am on Dec. 29, 2003
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Minder
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Oh please guys....no comeback? You have the ultimate comeback on her, a weapon of mass destruction - butterfly her! Go back to her bar the next night and barfine someone else and when that one asks "why you not take Noi" - tell her that Noi is a dud in bed. Might be a good idea to change bars for a year or two after that though!
Downside of tipping - here's one - Soi Cowboy June of 2003 and I go LT with a new love for an agreed 1500. Have a great time and happily hand over 2000 in the morning before heading off to the airport. Nov 2003 my love has quit the scene and I am at her old bar striking another LT deal. New girl flatly refuses to go with me for under the 2k I paid her GF in June. The girls all talk of course and I had labelled myself a 2k LT minimum at that bar!
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:33 am on Dec. 29, 2003
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nokna
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"Now, I recall reading one guy on another board who actually works from a schedule. Something like 400 for each orgasm he has plus 50 baht for hour of the girl's time and 200 baht more for taxi money on LT"
i had a 'game' like this a couple of times with regular friends.
a set fee for each orgasm,but they took it in the spirit it was intended.
coming from a non tipping Country I do not tip normally,because I am not used to the custom.
but with good service etc I will give the odd few Baht.
i once had fantastic help from a shop assistant which resulted in him helping me save my holiday.
i offered him 100 and he refused the 'reward',i posted it through his letterbox the next day.
and I agree with VJ and Smegma.
the giving of small coins in change annoys me.
the amount of times I used to get 10 Baht coins only in change of 40-50 Baht.
if they had been sensible I would have left a good tip.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:24 am on Dec. 29, 2003
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Arcadius
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One way to avoid inflation is to make a distinction between the 'fee' and the 'tip'. I always pay the going rate for the former (usually just shove it in her bag) so she's in no doubt that I know what it is. I never discuss money with them beforehand.
As for the 'butterfly response' - beware. I think that could easily backfire, but this would depend on her standing in the bar and why she starfished you. If she starfishes everyone as a matter of course, no problem. If she made a special exception in your case and has managed to convince them all that you're a prick, you may well make matters worse.
In general, I think it's a lot more productive to concentrate on where YOU went wrong. Maybe you need to do some more work on not barfining potential starfish - or on not converting OK girls into starfish afterwards. If you can't learn something useful from bad experiences, there's no point in having them.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:39 am on Dec. 29, 2003
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PopSecret
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Arcadius - you never discuss money before the act? learning from my own mistakes is what taught me to get things squared away before hand. what do you tell the girls who bring up the fee on their own? or are all your girls regulars by now?
i agree with the butterfly comment though. farangs going out of their way to piss off starfish must need a little sanity check. what is the point of getting even over something like that? personally, if a session goes poorly i'd just as soon never see the girl again. all the bad karma is on her end at that point; going out of your way to cause her a loss of face is only bringing yourself down to her level.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 10:01 am on Dec. 29, 2003
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Minder
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Arcadius and Popsecret my choice of words - Weapon of Mass Destruction - was deliberate. WMD do their best work NOT being used. Its the threat of possible use that is their value.
I believe it is the girl's fear of "loss of face" that often drives her to perform beyond all expectations rather than faith in any extra financial compensation for a job extra well done.
Arcadius "her standing in the bar" is exactly what she is protecting by "giving her all" and not "starfishing" - there will always be others in the bitchy all girl work environment who will jump at the chance to pull Noi down a notch or two in the pecking order.
"As for the 'butterfly response' - beware. I think that could easily backfire" - very true Arcadius - note also I recommend avoiding that bar for quite some time if you do unleash on Noi. Hell hath no fury......
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:33 am on Dec. 29, 2003
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