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Smegma
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This risks sounding like a troll thread, but if anyone can explain to me why a Thai girl that likes a tomboy considers herself not to be a lesbian it would help me understand a conversation I just had with my dinner date tonight.
Here is the short story: beautiful nice girl that I met long ago and I tried to seduce also long time ago. No success. She seems very honest and so much honesty is something that I was finding hard to believe: 1) that she promised her mother she would not have a boyfriend for 4 more years (so what? "I promise I won't tell your mother" I told her) 2) That she was still virgin -23 year old girl that seems normal cannot be virgin in my books!
Overtime I stopped my attempts at charming and seducing her and we became friends. Later a common friend tells me that she has a girlfriend. Oh! that figures I thought. I teased her that I knew and she seemed a bit annoyed at knowing that I had found out. But she made sure to tell me that it was only a tomboy and that in the future she expected she would have a real boyfriend.
Today, as we were having dinner the subject came out. She told me that liking a tomboy was not the same as liking another girl. That tomboys thought of themselves as people who thought as men, and that to her also they were almost men. As a consequence she didn't consider herlsef a lesbian. This was a "for the time being" relationship until she was ready to date a real man. Here the conversation turned to men and we digressed. But anyway, her point was that lesbians like other women, and as tomboys are not women, she is not a lesbian.
Her not so good English and my not so good Thai probably are the reasons that didn't allow me to grasp the subtleties of her whole explanation. But the look in her face was of total conviction as to why she is not a lesbian.
I know of another situation where a tomboy and a guy both liked a girl who had a boyfriend. Everybody knew they both liked the girl. The bf was jealous of the guy but not of the tomboy. The tomboy could go stay and sleep at the girls place, but the girl had to hide the fact from the bf if she ever spoke to the guy for 5 minutes.
What is it that seems to make people here think that tomboys are like a spiritual asexual things and that it is ok for girls to have realtionships with them and not count as one for the girl?
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:03 am on July 7, 2003
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bkkz
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Quote: from Smegma on 9:03 pm on July 7, 2003
This risks sounding like a troll thread, but if anyone can explain to me why a Thai girl that likes a tomboy considers herself not to be a lesbian
And what of a guy that likes ladyboys?
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 9:12 am on July 7, 2003
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X
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I must be missing something here Smeg.
I take it by a "tomboy" you mean a butch lesbian, right???
Well if that is the case, and this woman is atracted to the butch lesbian/tomboy.... then she can call her own sexuality what she likes...but that makes her at least bi-sexual in my books.
I mean if a guy dates a really efeminate man, efeminate or not, he's still a man. He need not necessarily be gay, but he must be bi.
The lady boy thing is different I feel... because a lady boy (certainly a post op one) is for all intents and purposes a woman, not a man.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:20 am on July 7, 2003
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Smegma
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hmmm... I guess this will if anything evolve into one of the same old threads we have already had.
Yes, if on the men side they are not gays then the women are not lesbians, and if the men are, well so are the women. Just for the sake of consistency. Then it is all a matter of opinion.
I guess we may as well delete the thread BK as I think it is starting to sound like "deja-vu". I leave it up to you. No problem here.
EDIT: I was posting this following BK's comment -hadn't read yet X reply. X, I have no clue what a butch is (I am not expert on the matter  ), but I guess yes, we are talking the same thing. BTW, I also found that here the tomboys have some interesting "rules of engagement" -but perhaps we leave that for another discussion.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 9:20 am on July 7, 2003
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X
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oh I dunno... I think I quite like this topic. I think if I had to give you reason why this girl thinks this way... well I'd have to say she doesn't want to identify as a lesbian or a bi-sexual... so for her own peace fo mind it might be easier for her to get her head aorund her feelings by pretending that the butch lesbian is something other than a butch lesbian.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 9:26 am on July 7, 2003
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MrJoe
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Well I happen to know the young lady in question (though not as well as Smega --and not as well as I'd like )but as I told Smegma before (though he may not recall as we were inbibing intoxicants), this is not at all an atypical situation.
Sorry to cop out but that's all I have the time to say for the moment. If I remember tomorrow perhaps I will bore everyone with a long detailed theses on this phenomena...
You have been warned.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:34 am on July 7, 2003
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X
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Smeg... ok the way I see it is...
you have gay men and lesbian women.
some gay men look and act and talk and walk and act just like straight men... then you have the efeminate gay men, who you can tell are gay at a glance by the way they talk/walk/dress and generally carry themselves.
well I think it's the same with lesbians. You have the type that walk and talk and act and look like straight women, there is no obvious sign they are lesbian... then you have the butch type, who dress masculinely, and act/talk/walk more like a man than a woman.
Again though... just my personal definition.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:34 am on July 7, 2003
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MrJoe
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X: Thai lesbians are called "Toms" (from tomboy) and Dees (from lady) and the terms roughly correspond to what would be known as Butch and Femme in the west. However, the Toms are essentially trying to be males while the Dees are remaining females -- even to the extent of enjoyng male company.
Thus, a Dee might consider her Tom to be a guy and she feels she is not a lesbian.
Hey...I just did the short version! There goes my project for tomorrow...
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:40 am on July 7, 2003
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Smegma
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The way she was explaining it to me seemed to be very matter of fact in the sense that it is not only her who thinks like that, but like the general accepted local wisdom. At least that is how she made it sound.
But I guess you may be right, specially given that she promised her mother (and I guess this is important to her) not to have any boyfriends for a long while. And ultimately she wants to end up having a relationship with a man. This would sound a bit like the old stories of the only-girls schools of the past. The girls would experiment among themselves, and graduate from the schools looking for men all convinced that they were not lesbians. Ok. fair enough.
MrJoe you are good! You guessed right. She is the one we met together. I admit it now, that I think you were right long ago when you were more likely to believe her, and I was wrong in doubting her so much. More of the things we discussed some time ago seem to check out the way you saw them.
EDIT: MrJoe said it right again before I said it. Yes, she said to me today exactly what MrJoe said above. The tom is a guy to her! (??).
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 9:44 am on July 7, 2003
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Arcadius
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I don't see why this is particularly surprising & I agree that it is directly analagous to a man's attraction to a very feminine-looking ladyboy.
Many Thais have sexually ambivalent looks (to farang eyes at least) and I have seen several Toms who made extremely convincing men. I don't know how they appear through Thai eyes, but certainly to my mind many Toms and LBs belong to a different order to butch lesbians and effeminate gays in the West. By that, I mean that they cross the gender divide FAR more convincingly - certainly convincingly enough to fool such a crude mental function as lust.
However you want to cut the definitions in technical terms, I believe the attraction towards a LB who is virtually indistingushable from a woman is a heterosexual and not a homosexual impulse. Presumably your TG takes the same line with regard to her Tom, in which case I would tend to agree with her.
At any event, whether she responds at all to feminine sexual characteristics is something only she can know. Why wouldn't you just take her word for it?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:44 am on July 7, 2003
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