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Smegma
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All said makes sense, and I do take her word in that she believes what she says.
But it seems to me she also wants to have the cake and eat it too. No, she is not a lesbian because the tom is not a woman. No, she is not having relationship with a man, because she is with a tom.
She just wants to have fun and convince the whole world what a good girl she is because toms don't count as men. A little flawed her logic I think -though she is happy with it herself.
My question was why shouldn't tom count as real sexual relationships? Why should men be jealous of other men if their girls loks at another man, but not is she looks at a tom? Read my OP. That is what I was basically asking.
The analogy with ladyboys would be that a woman should not mind her husband riding a LB cuz it doesn't count as cheating cuz he is not a woman? 
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:14 pm on July 7, 2003
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Packripper
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Quote: from MrJoe on 9:40 pm on July 7, 2003
X: Thai lesbians are called "Toms" (from tomboy) and Dees (from lady) and the terms roughly correspond to what would be known as Butch and Femme in the west. However, the Toms are essentially trying to be males while the Dees are remaining females -- even to the extent of enjoyng male company.
Thus, a Dee might consider her Tom to be a guy and she feels she is not a lesbian.
Hey...I just did the short version! There goes my project for tomorrow...
Actually the short version sums it up quite nicely. Toms are great. If it weren't for 'toms,' there'd be less virgins 'dees' around for ol' PR to deflower. I mean geez... who you rather her having dated a guy instead of the 'tom?' But seriously... as a Thai, and as someone dating a "dee" , I don't view her as a lesbian.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 1:00 pm on July 7, 2003
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Smegma
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The fact that she does believe that she is not a lesbian is fine with me. I will be happy when and IF she leaves the tom and comes to me. Though I still think her logic on not counting this in any way as a relationship is flawed. She may feel virgin in the sense that not male organ has gone inside -though God knows what size of dildo the tom may have used.
BTW, I agree, toms are great friends. They are also great in making it easier to get some of their normal girl friends to lower their guard when dealing with you and make it into a new group.
However, one thing is having a girl who comes to you from a tom. But very different I think it would be loosing a girl to one. I think I will feel worse if a girl were to leave me for another girl than is she left me for another guy.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:15 pm on July 7, 2003
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bkkz
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Quote: from Smegma on 12:14 am on July 8, 2003
No, she is not a lesbian because the tom is not a woman. No, she is not having relationship with a man, because she is with a tom.
She is not in a relationship with a man, sure, but she is still in a relationship and is technically unavailable.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 1:19 pm on July 7, 2003
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Smegma
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That is not me saying that. It is from my post, but it is me telling the point she makes.
I agree BK. She is in a relationship and having sex one way or the other with another human being; maybe not a man, but still a relationship that makes her not available to the world of men; a world she will explore in due course as per her own words.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:56 pm on July 7, 2003
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bkkz
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Well, sell her the idea that having a guy is a great idea. First of all, the Tom doesn't have a real dick, and there is no way she is going to have any smegma! 
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:04 pm on July 7, 2003
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chrisboy
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and talking about these Tomboys, ofr the brutcher!! hehe....
have u guys wondered where and how they got all those pretty looking gals??
at times, i really do feel ashamed of myself when i see a butch with a nice looking GF!!
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:27 pm on July 7, 2003
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Arcadius
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Smeg
No, she is not a lesbian because the tom is not a woman. No, she is not having relationship with a man, because she is with a tom
Well, this actually makes perfect sense to me. I think you could only see it as illogical if you insist on a strict demarcation between male and female. If the tom is not a woman, ergo (s)he must be a man. Or vice versa.
You quite often see LBs (and I suppose, by extension, toms) referred to as the '3rd gender'. I think this is a useful concept, because the male/female dichotomy simply fails to work in many of these cases and just causes unnecessary confusion.
Surely all your TG is saying is: 1) no, she is not a lesbian because the feminine holds no sexual attraction for her, and 2) a tom is not a man, but a woman presenting as such. De facto (s)he falls into neither category.
Imho, this second proposition works in LOS in a way it seldom does in the West because the cross-gender presentation is far more complete and far more successful.
At any event, I think the Thais are far better than we are at coping conceptually with sexual ambivalence of this kind - and are characteristically adept in making it work for them. I don't think the Greeks and Romans would have had any difficulty catching their point of view - the 'hermaphrodite' was quite a well-known figure in ancient times. Only the heirs to 2,000 years of Judaeo-Christian codswallop on matters sexual are liable to get into difficulties over this.
Anyway, as you say, the only thing that matters for all practical purposes is that she is sexually and emotionally involved with someone else.
I am curious that you think you would feel worse about losing a girl to a tom than another man. I think I would feel slightly better about it.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:44 am on July 8, 2003
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JackRabbit
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JackRabbit present...
Smeg
You think too much.
JR
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 6:20 am on July 8, 2003
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JackRabbit
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JackRabbit present...
The thing is like an european TS explained to psychiatrist in the evaluation :
" GAY ?? Me , no , no , no , doctor. I am a normal woman in man's body and I want to have sex with a man. But because I am in a man's body , heteromen do not want to have sex with me , the only way I can have sex is to have sex with gaymen . Do You understand ?"
JR
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:23 am on July 8, 2003
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