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Chompoo
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I think you are a bit confused here. Stealing is not lying, it is not fraud and it is not deceit. İThe terms are not synonymous. They each have very specific meanings. The young lady would be stealing if she took property without permission. İShe is given money willingly by benefactors by using deceit but she is no way stealing. İ
"Stealing" and "Fraud" have specific meanings for legal purposes and if I were putting this girl on trial I would definitely charge her with fraud (and would win). However "stealing" is still an accurate characterization of what she did (just as many American executives can be said to have "stolen" from their stockholders). She is not any better (and considerably worse, IMO) than a common pickpocket.
You get pretty hung up on this holding prostitutes to a moral and ethical standard.
Hung up? No, there is a clear right and a clear wrong. It is not a hangup, it is just the way things are.
The reality, as I mentioned before, is that prostitution is usually an illegal business; considered a disreputable and immoral business by mainstream societies;usually operates in a world controlled by organized crime.
The prostitutes are merely products of their illegal world and their behaviors and practices are reflections of that world. There are of course exceptions to the rule but that is not the norm. İFear, greed, violence, death, lies, deceit, fraud, scams, etc are dominant in the underworld. There is no legal system or lawyers; there is no court where these people can settle their differences; there is not pension plan and health benefits; there is no regulatory body;there is no civil methods of recourse. İThere is only street justice and the basest form of survival of the fittest. Your mainstream ideals of ethics and morals don't work well in that world and you would be a fool to think that you can apply them there.
All this has been said before and yet you guys continue to evade the real questions and hypocrisy.
I have admitted many times that prostitution is a dirty business and that occasionally people involved must do unpleasant and even unethical things to get by. Sometimes they are justifiable in other cases they are clearly not.
All the examples you give are completely irrelevant to the discussion. It is a common rule of ethics that one person screwing you over does not give you the right to screw others. Nothing that you've said justifies this particular girl running her con game.
When Disney operates a legal prostitution business then maybe you can champion your cause for morally and ethically upstanding prostitutes, until then it is a pure pipe dream.
More absurdity. You guys want to throw ethics out the door completely (except when it suits you, of course). There are some bars and girls who do act ethically, at least at first.
It is a vicious cycle when the guys cheat the girls because they have been burned (or have read from people like you to expect and tolerate it) and then the girls cheat other guys to get back. The screw or be screwed philosophy may be a viable way to live your life, but I find it repugnant.
I'm not a fool, but I also don't want to be one of the guys who are making the problem worse. I treat the girls as ethically and as honestly as I can, and I give them no reason to try to screw over the next guy.
I may not have the solution, but at least I'm not part of the problem.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:25 pm on Feb. 5, 2003
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Chompoo
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And that is why you will never have an honest relationship with a female. Just shows your lack of morales and/or your lack of understanding what marriage is all about.
Excuse me? Have you ever had a real relationship (one that wasn't paid for)? You apparently have little or no knowledge of relationships in the real world if you think that the best solution for every couple is 100% honesty.
Why not have a detailed discussion with someone in that position and you explain to them how what they are doing is a bad thing and how complete honesty would be best for his or her marriage.
To be fair, I'll have a detailed discussion with ccvvbb's girl and she can explain to me why cheating these guys is a good thing.
I'm not going to judge or preach to the ones that lie to their wifes, because each person is responsible for their own actions. If they chose to do so, then it's their choice. But .... I'm also not going to say that it's understandable either.
Bullshit. That's exactly what you're doing. You're saying that it is unconscionable to ever lie to your wife or GF over anything.
ABC, go back and read through the thread again. You have learned nothing since you continue to avoid facing the contradictions in your words and the hypocrisy in how you live your life.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 7:35 pm on Feb. 5, 2003
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jjsushi
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Quote: from Chompoo on 8:25 am on Feb. 6, 2003
All the examples you give are completely irrelevant to the discussion. It is a common rule of ethics that one person screwing you over does not give you the right to screw others. Nothing that you've said justifies this particular girl running her con game.
MY arguments may be irrelevant to YOUR discussion but my arguments are the reality whereas your arguments are a fantasy that do not give credence to the reality.
You want to debate about high moral and ethical standards concerning a business in which they are a rarity and not the norm.
Your debate is irrelevant because it in no way even comes close to the reality.
The prostitutes reality dictates her actions and that is all of the JUSTIFICATION that SHE needs. I don't need to justify that she lies to make her money and my moral and ethical view concerning her actions does not change the reality.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:00 pm on Feb. 5, 2003
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Chompoo
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Your typical American (or European, or ?) sense of ethics are not operative in Thailand. İAnd what ethics exist in greater Thai society don't apply to the bargirl/nightlife/prostitution scene, either.
The quickest way to move from a forum pariah, to a pariah in Thailand, is to attempt to hold Thais to your own set of 'ethics'. İThe assertion that all lies are unethical only applies to your OWN ethical code. İSaving face in Thai society comprises thousands of lies daily, but in the local context, it makes things work.
Once again you are not paying attention, missing much of what I'm saying and simultaneously reading things into the discussion that don't exist.
Thai ethics and American/European ethics are not so dissimilar as you imagine. There certainly is a shift in the dividing line between an innocent lie and an egregious lie and Thai people are far more tolerant of ethical violations. But you mistake the reality from the ideal, which is what I'm talking about. A Thai professor of Ethics would certainly condemn corruption in the police department, but he might very well bribe his way out of a ticket.
No honest, upright Thai citizen would condone what this bargirl does. One of the reasons upright Thai citizens dislike the prostitution scene is because of all the dishonest and corruption (even more than in other parts of their lives).
Some may laugh and think that everyone who gets scammed probably deserved it. That is an unfortunate aspect of Thai society. There is no reason why we need to accept and honor every part of every culture. Some aspects (like this one) should not be tolerated in an enlightened society and Thailand is surely coming around slowly.
Again, you make the mistake (which I have corrected a half dozen times in this thread alone) of confusing knowing what's right, with actively proselytizing or acting on it. If you had been paying attention you will note that I did not tell ccvvbb to start emailing those guys, or keep tabs on the girl email account, or that anyone else should do so. However, choosing to be a party to that fraud and pretending that it is a decent thing to do are very different. All I have been doing is countering those who say things like "the girl deserves what she can get" and "the guys should have known better".
It's THEIR card game, and your best hope is to sit out a LOT of hands, until you get a glimmer of the rules. İCrying foul because she suddenly informs you that 3's of spades are wild cards doesn't fly. İYou should have known that before you played your hand.
Who exactly are you preaching to? Sometimes it looks like you're addressing me, the "forum pariah," and other times you're addressing the masses. I know the basic rules and I have never been burnt. However, that does not mean I don't have compassion for others who fall into this trap, and there are many who are good, honest, intelligent, well-meaning people. Go ahead and give your advice to those people, but also keep in mind that fleecing a newbie, just because he is new, is not a valid justification.
In general, I think that the world would be a better place if everybody behaved according to their own internal set of ethics, as opposed to changing their standards based on their perception of what others do to them. İThe idea that it's OK to lie because you were lied to, and to cheat because you were cheated on is the antithesis to integrity.
You got it partly right. The world would be a much better place if everyone were held to a high ethical standard and were not allowed to just choose their own set of ethics. Adhering to your own low set of ethics is not admirable.
There are some 'personality boundary' issues evident here, and those kinds of things predispose you to bitterness and disillusionment in the Land of Smiles...
We have yet another psychoanalyst in our midst. Well, believe it or not there are a lot of people who are honest and trustworthy in Thailand and some of them are even prostitutes. You may wish to live amongst the liars and thieves, but I prefer to stick with the good ones and reward them. Sometimes it is hard to identify which is which, but when it is clear (such as ccvvbb's girl) there is no reason to tolerate it and I would keep my distance.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 8:03 pm on Feb. 5, 2003
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Chompoo
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MY arguments may be irrelevant to YOUR discussion but my arguments are the reality whereas your arguments are a fantasy that do not give credence to the reality.
Well if you are not responding to my discussion then what is the point? Did you really need to step in here to point out that there is a lot of dishonesty in the prostitution business? Any other news flashes for us?
You want to debate about İhigh moral and ethical standards concerning a business in which they are a rarity and not the norm.
Again you are greatly confused. In theory there is no reason why the prostitution business can't be ethical, just as any other business. If we continue to have absolutely no ethical standards in the business then it will never improve.
Why is it that I can't expect that my bar bill not be padded? Why should I be happy if the BG told me she was clean, but knowingly gave me an STD?
There are some ethical standards in the business and they are lower than most of us would prefer. Why is it so unreasonable to set the bar a little higher, so that not all egregious lies and scams are tolerated and even encouraged?
Your debate is irrelevant because it in no way even comes close to the reality.
The prostitutes reality dictates her actions and that is all of the JUSTIFICATION that SHE needs. I don't need to justify that she lies to make her money and my moral and ethical view concerning her actions does not change the reality.
The reality is that some bargirls will try to scam us and that we need to be careful. Common thieves justify their actions too. That doesn't make it right and doesn't mean we should just bend over.
Just admit that it is wrong. The girl is committing fraud and there is absolutely no real justification for it. It's very simple.
I'm not asking you to go slap the girl around, just admit that it's wrong. Because it absolutely, positively, unquestionably is. If you condone or abet girls like this, then you are contributing to the problem.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:17 pm on Feb. 5, 2003
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pinga
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Holy shit!
What's going on here?
Did I miss something?
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:28 pm on Feb. 5, 2003
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ccvvbb
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Quote: from pinga on 9:28 am on Feb. 6, 2003
Holy shit!
What's going on here?
Did I miss something?
This post has gotten a life of its own and is growing FAST.
You up for a drink at Bamboo on Monday or Tuesday?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:37 pm on Feb. 5, 2003
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pinga
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ccvvbb,
You've got a PM.
....and I think some of these guys may consider to use this sort of communication as well....CHEERS.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:45 pm on Feb. 5, 2003
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Kryptonite
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Once again a classic case of some people taking something WAY too far.
Kill this thread before it turns into a monster.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 8:45 pm on Feb. 5, 2003
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haam sup
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"Well, believe it or not there are a lot of people who are honest and trustworthy in Thailand and some of them are even prostitutes. You may wish to live amongst the liars and thieves, but I prefer to stick with the good ones and reward them. Sometimes it is hard to identify which is which, but when it is clear (such as ccvvbb's girl) there is no reason to tolerate it and I would keep my distance."
The last sentence of this paragraph is about the only intelligent thing you have said.
(The last sentence is deliberately condescending, as an example of the style you constantly use. İWho made ME the arbiter of intelligence? İOr you?)
Of course, keeping your distance is a good option. İBut being so bound up in trying to influence (by reward, or punishment) others' behavior is a recipe for boorishness, and ineffectual in any case.
Which is what makes you so impalatable to many, I'll wager.
There's more to life than being right.
Personally, I just vote with my feet.
haam sup
"Oh, sorry, our 50 min. are up. İDid you bring a check?"
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:53 pm on Feb. 5, 2003
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