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hzink
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Quote: from Hermanolobo on 3:03 pm on Jan. 29, 2004
Can you really as a Westerner have a relationship based on money? Are 'Western' relationships based soley on money ?
I hate to point out the obvious, but, YES!
Western, or ANY relatrionships are based on reciprocity. The only truly unconditional relationship you will ever have is with your dog.
While elegantly cloaked in various rituals and behaviors, western relationships in the end boil down to worth, values and money.
Your problem, I believe, is that you are trying to force western values onto people with non-western culture and values. Asian folks don't get up in the morning, thinking "I think I'll be a money obsessed greedoid today". Particularly to individuals that live in on a far lower economic scale, money represents a paramount tool not just to a better life, but essentially to survival. You've been going to Thailand plenty of times (geez, 13!) to have been able to figure out that different values and different priorities apply.
The way I see it that either you can accept these differences, in which case you don't form value judgements and try to change the girls, or you can't, in which case a farang chick might be a better choice.
The whole ideal of 'for richer and for poorer' might look really nice on judeo-christian paper, but it ain't worth the paper it's written in in Thailand. You might as well argue how they are all driving on the wrong side of the road - they do, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.
Personally, apart from detaching myself from it all, I have absolutely no issue with the economic lines being drawn - they are no different from the west, except far more direct.
Maybe if you're around in February, we can discuss this over a couple dozen drinks... 
Harry
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:33 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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Hermanolobo
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Quote: from hzink on 4:33 pm on Jan. 29, 2004
The whole ideal of 'for richer and for poorer' might look really nice on judeo-christian paper, but it ain't worth the paper it's written in in Thailand. You might as well argue how they are all driving on the wrong side of the road - they do, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.
Maybe if you're around in February, we can discuss this over a couple dozen drinks...
Harry
From my perspective the Thais drive on the right (correct) side of the road, like Britain and Japan!
As I said I don't have the answers.
However with the Thais at least you know where they are coming from in this regard. In general bar girls do not pretend to be anything other than they are, I don't know about the so-called.'good Thai girls' ?
I like the bar girls because the ones I know have character and certainly know about survival. Some are greedy and some are dodgy. But they like a laugh and that's fine by me ! My mistake is I get to like them too much and that is unrealistic considering their life style.
It is very easy to feel very lonely (I don't mean sex) in a large 'Western' city. I have never felt lonely in Bangkok or any other part of Thailand for that matter. Whilst the contacts are superficial I have never felt lonely and in general have been treated very very well. Whether things would be the same if I was skint I really couldn't tell. I like the company of Thai women. That is from my perspective and not the list I made. I am now very concerned for them because of this 'Avian-Flu' - Thailand is now part of me, whether I like it or not. I usually like it, that is why a lot of issues there are personal in a way. My friends and I (all Thai addicts) call it home.
To quote Vinny Jones from the film Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels:-
"Gentlemen, it's been Emotional !"
hzink - I would love to have a few biers in February (I could practice my Austrian drinking songs) But I am due to be in Las Islas Canarias at that time.
Cheers,
Hermanolito
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 4:15 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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ringthebells
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you're THAT OLD herminator??
cran canarias
rtb
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:19 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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Hermanolobo
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Quote: from ringthebells on 5:19 pm on Jan. 29, 2004
you're THAT OLD herminator??
cran canarias
rtb
Nein älter 
I knew Prinz Rudolf, I often had 'hoch tee' at Mayerling!
Visitaré Tenerife
Herminator
P.S. I swapped the 'Heilige Lanze' in the Hofburg with a fake !
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 4:27 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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sirtitus
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DG, BB, RTB,
Thank you for your advice, guys. At this point, she hasn't said anything about sponsorship nor have I (as my financial situation isn't up to sponsorship at the moment... maybe in a month or so...)
Anyway, thanks. I just wanted to understand the concept of sponsorship and what's involved.
Cheers
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 4:37 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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Arcadius
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Hermano
For richer, for poorer...
Sounds good, but perhaps you should go back and re-read your Jane Austen. The Binghams of this world may have been handsome and 'amiable' enough, but the fact that they were worth 5,000 a year also mattered hugely.
What was marriage about in the West until quite recently? Money, property transmission, family connections. That's not to say sexual attraction, romantic love, etc didn't play their roles, because they did, but they sure as hell weren't the be-all and end-all. At bottom, marriage was a practical business, openly bound up with money, and all JA's 'sensible' heroines never forgot it.
I think a TG's attitude to this stuff is far more akin to the way we were, rather than the way we are now. But it shouldn't be that difficult for a modern Westerner to get his head around.
Main problem, it seems to me, is that many (if not most) farangs don't want to take their TG as a package, but treat her like a smorgasboord instead. Take the TG characteristics that appeal, avoid the TG characteristics (especially her family obligations) that don't appeal. Essentially, they want HER to do all the adapting, and it just doesn't work. You have to do it the hard way.
Some guys just aren't equipped for this. They really shouldn't be in the market for TGs at all.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:01 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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TJ
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@Arcadius
>What was marriage about in the West until quite recently? Money, property transmission, family connections.
Yes, but. There was also the judeo-christian ethic that dictatated that once a couple was married, they would remain so - for richer or poorer. It was a big scandal to have a divorce, even if the original conditions for that marriage no longer applied. No?
Just how is divorce looked upon in Thai society?
@Hzink
>Western, or ANY relatrionships are based on reciprocity. The only truly unconditional relationship you will ever have is with your dog.
I don't see how you can exempt the dog from your statement. The dog provides its services (affection, protection) in return for your services (food, protection, affection). Were you to stop feeding the animal, stop petting it, it would eventually leave you.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:35 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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Hermanolobo
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TJ/Arcadius
Interesting replies.
If it is just about money, property etc why were all the love songs written?
People still get married for love.
Arcadius,
Can you apply you 'Jane Austen' viewpoint to England in the 1930's ?
Hermanolito
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:45 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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ColoradoGuy
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Quote: from sirtitus on 4:37 am on Jan. 29, 2004
Anyway, thanks. I just wanted to understand the concept of sponsorship and what's involved.
If you just feel sorry for her and want to give her some more money, feel free to do it however and in whatever quantity you wish. She'll appreciate it, and she is used to getting money. The money you give her will help her continue to an above-average wage-earner in her country.
If you are going to sponsor a girl (whom you've spent one week with!) to keep her out of the bar, think otherwise. In my experiences and discussions with BGs, I am of the belief that sending a BG money every month (from afar) will, many times, have the opposite effect that the guy is hoping for. The sponser's idea is that by sending her money each month, this will replace the income she is giving up by not working in the bar or going with customers, so she will not have to work or see other guys. In theory, this works fine but in practice, it might fuel the opposite of what he wants.
If the "boyfriend" (we'll call him Sponsor1) is sending her money and she is not doing anything to earn it, she is probably thinking that this is a pretty good deal. She has lots of free time. It also is putting the thought in her mind that if Sponsor1 is sending money each month and is never around to get any services from this money, then possibly she can find a Sponsor2 to do the same thing! In effect, she can get double the money with little extra effort. After all, Sponsor1 is thousands of miles away and doesn't live in BKK. Sponsor2 will be as well.
If a customer paid you a lot of money to do very little, would you think twice if a second customer came along and offered the same thing?
It is really not much more than "moonlighting" from a job, except the difference here is that the "job" of accepting money from Sponsor1 is really an effortless job most of the time. The only time it really involves work is when Sponsor1 comes to BKK. For that time, the girl needs to be dedicated to him. As long as Sponsor1 and Sponsor1 don't show up at the same time, there is no problem.
Sponsor3? Sponsor4? Only the girl can decide how much she can handle.
Even if she only has Sponsor1, there is almost no downside to seeing a customer (Visitor1) for a day or two while they are in Bangkok. This is just gravy. It gets the girl out of the room for some fun, keeps her skills up to snuff, gives here some spending money and the girl and Visitor1 are quite happy with the arrangement.
She will no motivation to tell Sponsor1, Sponsor2 or Visitor1 about each other. There is little motivation for her to stop seeing other customers. The girl does not consider the ramifications of what will happen if Sponsor1 finds out what she is doing.
I know, I know, your girl would never do this
Note: CG is often Visitor1, I really like to see girls with sponsors. They seem to be more easy-going, experienced and a little hornier. 
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 9:49 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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