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Arcadius
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If it is just about money, property etc why were all the love songs written?
Oh come on, Hermie, why so black-and-white? It's never been 'just' about anything - at least, not ideally. People have always been in love with love, but they haven't always put it on as high a pedestal as we do. At least not as a basis for marriage.
I think in any society where the family is the vital mutual-support network, marriage alliances are seldom dictated solely by the emotional spasm of the moment. It's a luxury which just can't be afforded.
The 1930s? I'd have thought that traditional Western M/F relationships were already well into transition by then - but that's a huge subject. The only point I'm trying to make is that TG attitudes to this stuff aren't quite as alien and bizarre as we sometimes like to think, and we have a huge literature to prove it.
Divorce? I presume the 'for richer, for poorer' thing meant that having made your decision, you were now committed to each other whatever fate threw your way. It's not quite the same thing as discovering that there was a huge gap in your cultural assumptions about marriage in the first place. That situation would hardly ever arise.
Thai attitudes to divorce and separation are quite relaxed. It's certainly easy enough to do, and as far as I'm aware there's little stigma attached.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:54 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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hzink
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Quote: from Hermanolobo on 8:45 pm on Jan. 29, 2004
If it is just about money, property etc why were all the love songs written?
GeesusKrist ! Are you 12 years old, or what?
"Love is trick played by DNS to replicate itself"
Why are love songs written? To sell records!
Why was 'western' love invented (in the 12th century, or thereabouts, when 'romantic' love was idealized first) - in order to dress up and disguise our lustful feelings in an environment that dictated 'purity'.
'Love', as we western folks know it, is an invention, a creation of the 12th century bards and singers, that took hold because it fulfilled a need and purpose at that time - and it has been with western men and women ever since.
None of this applies to eastern and asian cultures and concepts, and we apply our view and values in muhc the same way we tend to project our views and values on our pets ("Look, the dog is smiling").
So, please, don't degenerate this debate by asking "Why are the love songs written", which is a question (rhetorical or not) I would expect from a 12 year old, not an adult).
I think the issue you are battling with, aside from your proverbial carrying your heart on your sleeve (what exactly DOES that mean, by the way), is that you are seeking familiar emotional haven that you feel you are not getting in the west - yet, while you realize the nature of p4p in BKK, you also desperately want your cake and eat it too. Sorry, that won't happen.
Harry
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 11:24 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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Hermanolobo
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Quote: from hzink on 12:24 am on Jan. 30, 2004
Quote: from Hermanolobo on 8:45 pm on Jan. 29, 2004
If it is just about money, property etc why were all the love songs written?
GeesusKrist ! Are you 12 years old, or what?
"Love is trick played by DNS to replicate itself"
Why are love songs written? To sell records!
Why was 'western' love invented (in the 12th century, or thereabouts, when 'romantic' love was idealized first) - in order to dress up and disguise our lustful feelings in an environment that dictated 'purity'.
'Love', as we western folks know it, is an invention, a creation of the 12th century bards and singers, that took hold because it fulfilled a need and purpose at that time - and it has been with western men and women ever since.
None of this applies to eastern and asian cultures and concepts, and we apply our view and values in muhc the same way we tend to project our views and values on our pets ("Look, the dog is smiling").
So, please, don't degenerate this debate by asking "Why are the love songs written", which is a question (rhetorical or not) I would expect from a 12 year old, not an adult).
I think the issue you are battling with, aside from your proverbial carrying your heart on your sleeve (what exactly DOES that mean, by the way), is that you are seeking familiar emotional haven that you feel you are not getting in the west - yet, while you realize the nature of p4p in BKK, you also desperately want your cake and eat it too. Sorry, that won't happen.
Harry
I wonder if the other posters will agree with this view?
 The Devil's Advocate
"They didn't sell records in my time!
-Bill Shakespeare
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:32 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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TJ
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> proverbial carrying your heart on your sleeve (what exactly DOES that mean, by the way)
Since he didn't answer this, I'll give my version: it means that one doesn't hide their emotions well. That if one is hurt, emotionally, one displays it openly instead of pretending that nothing happened/keeping up appearances. Similarly, one does not guard positive emotions, and allows an outward appearance of interest, excitement, and/or infatuation when it might be deemed premature or inappropriate to do so.
khao jai my crap?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 11:45 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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hzink
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Quote: from TJ on 8:35 pm on Jan. 29, 2004
Yes, but. There was also the judeo-christian ethic that dicttated that once a couple was married, they would remain so - for richer or poorer. It was a big scandal to have a divorce, even if the original conditions for that marriage no longer applied. No?
No! Since the core of marriage is to attain or retain property FOR THE FAMILY, the part 'for richer, for poorer' simply reinforces that - i.e. no one leaves the marriage and thus splits or takes the property - it remains in the holdings 'til death do us part', and then remains part of the accumulated family holdings.
Why do you think the same judeo-christian 'ethic' (laughable term) decreed that priests shall not marry? Jesus had nothing to do with it, but rather our buddies from the church that wanted to make sure all property reverts back to the church. Otherwise, upon the death of a married priest, his wife would make off with property that 'belongs' to the church.
Study up on our society's history, and you'll see that our 'values' of today are all based on past greed decisions - westerners have just bought into the marketing brochure.
Quote: from TJ on 8:35 pm on Jan. 29, 2004
I don't see how you can exempt the dog from your statement. The dog provides its services (affection, protection) in return for your services (food, protection, affection). Were you to stop feeding the animal, stop petting it, it would eventually leave you.
Unfortunately, the herding and pack instinct of most dogs overrides a utilitarian reasoning - there's plenty of examples of dogs being treated absolutely awfully by people in this country (US), and they will continue to love, lick, ad be happy with their owners. It's about as close to unconditonal as you can get - the blessing of a minimum of neurons, and strong instincts, I guess.
You won't find the same quality in humans...
Harry
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 11:46 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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hzink
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Quote: from Hermanolobo on 12:32 am on Jan. 30, 2004
I wonder if the other posters will agree with this view?
The Devil's Advocate
Okay, let's take this in a different direction, then -- do you want to hear realistic analysis, or do you prefer to be fed what you want to hear?
In other words, do you seek a solution, or do you simply seek absolution?
If all you want is shared 'Sturm und Drang Trübsal blasen', I'll be glad to put on my best fake 'woe is me' mask, and make you feel all fuzzy... 
Harry
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:51 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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Hermanolobo
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Quote: from TJ on 12:45 am on Jan. 30, 2004
> proverbial carrying your heart on your sleeve (what exactly DOES that mean, by the way)
Since he didn't answer this, I'll give my version: it means that one doesn't hide their emotions well. That if one is hurt, emotionally, one displays it openly instead of pretending that nothing happened/keeping up appearances. Similarly, one does not guard positive emotions, and allows an outward appearance of interest, excitement, and/or infatuation when it might be deemed premature or inappropriate to do so.
khao jai my crap?
That's about it, I am an emotional open person. Maybe that's way I get on quite well with Latinos?
Arcadius/hzink
Does the phrase 'shared values' mean anything to you ?
Herminator
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:52 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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Arcadius
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I thought the 'courtly love' of the troubadours was mainly about being in love with some other guy's wife (Sir Lancelot & Guinevere style). Ideally, it was supposed to be hopeless. Actually doing anything about it (or wasting tender sentiments on your own wife) was considered bad form.
I don't think they invented it, though - there' s no shortage of romantic love in classical literature. Admittedly, in a Greek aristo's case, this was far more likely to be lavished on some little boy down the gym than back home on the ball & chain.
No doubt, love went into abeyance somewhat during the Dark Ages. We don't hear too much about the Huns, Vikings & co making daisy chains and crooning sweet nothings.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:54 am on Jan. 29, 2004
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hzink
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Quote: from Hermanolobo on 12:52 am on Jan. 30, 2004
Does the phrase 'shared values' mean anything to you ?
No.
Harry
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 12:06 pm on Jan. 29, 2004
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Deleted Member
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If Hermano is 12 years old I shall find out when I meet him.
If hzink is 22 I shall find out when I meet HIM.
In the meantime I know this:
1) Hermano has been married to a Thai and still believe in love
2) I have been married to a Singaporean -Chinese and belive in the emotional response inside my self called love,
but will go for a partner next time whose company I really ENJOY.
Lets get your experience on the table in this regard, so we can compare notes. Than maybe we can define what are the common experiences and conclude?
Hermano - I am thinking of Spitroast on Sunday - shall we say at 13 H00 o'clock?
I'll send you PM.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:20 pm on Jan. 29, 2004
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