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chateaujade
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MrJoe, I didn't drop the other shoe.
When we first started and set up website my assumption was that the mix of clientele would be more like 50/50 Top and bottom. BUT what happened was that we were inundated with male subs looking for female Dommes and almost no male Doms looking for subs. So we went with the flow.
Of the quite small number of requests that we do get for female subs, about 80-90% seem to be from the clueless wannabes and as I am perhaps if anything overprotective of my proteges, I just shine them on, as the saying goes. The remainder, who are few and far between, we offer to do a "middle" session where there is a Domme in control, the guy in between and the female sub on bottom, this way the Dommes can get to know the fellow and see if he can be trusted (and isn't a klutz) and the sub can have real security that the guy isn't Ted Bundy's evil twin brother or something. That's Ted B the serial killer not Al B the shoe salesman from Married with Children.
Of course it could easily be that price plays a role, but, from the pro fem sub's viewpoint all that means is more risk/less reward.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:40 am on Sep. 18, 2002
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chateaujade
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PS MrJoe -- I guess the tendency to scoff is because it seems to me that Gaow and whoever was behind her curtain -- for there HAS to be a farang b/f in back of her I suspect -- made all the mistakes.
If she's really mostly a sub she ought to have been pitched that way without confusing the issue by claiming to be a Dominatrix.
For reasons of security she ought to have developed her own studio or dungeon rather than going the dangerous, quick&dirty outcall route. ESPECIALLY if she was mostly playing on the bottom, where her personal safety has to be first concern.
That would have been a unique approach, and she would have just needed to find her price level to make it worthwhile for her. Of course I cannot imagine a pro sub doing it unless she really loves it, who wants to get tied and whipped and f_cked just for the $$$?
Anyway, in the wider, US and European scenes there are really very few pro fem subs and LEGIONS of pro Dommes, so that follows my own experience with the scene demographics.
Japan is the only place where the Scene is mostly male Dom/fem sub, and Fem Domme/male sub is an aberration. And the Japanese Scene is so closed to westerners and so costly anyway that it hardly matters.
BTW in HK there's only one dungeon, they just rent the playspaces, for $800HK/hour, that's about $150 US, and you must bring your own partner. They CAN offer pro's who are loosely affiliated with them (to beat the HK brothel laws) and those are like $250 US an hour. The rooms are small but exquisitely outfitted by Fetters of the UK, whereas we for example don't give a fig for the theatrics of the Scene, focusing on the people -- just the opposite.
Anyway maybe that might give you some perspective on prices. We are less than $30/hr 2 Dommes, they are $400US/hr, 1 Domme. Which is why people fly here from HK to have fun.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 6:55 am on Sep. 18, 2002
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MrJoe
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CJE,
Thanx for the excellent responses to my post.
You bring up something that you've mentioned before and I've wanted to comment on;"We were inundated with male subs looking for female Dommes and almost no male Doms looking for subs." From I know of the scene, it's my understanding that this is rather universal amongst those who swing-- men generally want to be bottoms. I always thought it rather remarkable that the dynamic was so one-sided (especially since I would have thought it would be the rare male who would be secure enough to be submissive-I have always assumed that was the reason why being a bottom has essentially 0% appeal to me.).
Nor does the other typical assumption seem likely; that most men are somehow inadequate and are compensating for something. Any comment? (On second thought I don't mean for you to dissect anyone's sexuality on a public forum.)
In any case I commend you for your conscientous attitude towards looking after the ladies of your establishment. I would expect nothing less.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:28 am on Sep. 18, 2002
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MrJoe
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BTW I hate to think I have anything in common with the typical Japanese perv.
I don't mean that as racist comment; it's just that the examples I've seen of the male/female dynamic in that country and the pornography, the rope bondage, etc. appear a bit too one-sided for me, if you know what I mean.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 7:33 am on Sep. 18, 2002
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chateaujade
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MrJoe, the general observation and not just by me, is that male subs tend to be guys with a lot of stress and authority/responsibility in their lives, who want to be able to relax by shedding all that decision making by assuming the role of a slave or captive but for a finite defined period under totally safe and secure conditions.
And of course the absolute paradox of the Scene is that it is the sub who defines totally the borders of the session, the limits of play; while the Domme is at worst a servitor of the sub, carrying out HIS wishes while posing as a Domme; and at best is a creative artist who takes the landscape defined by the sub and paints it with his anguish (more or less severely) while playing him like a musical instrument, yet denying relief, teasing and tormenting, humiliating and rewarding and punishing as she sees fit (while staying within his parameters). That is what the commercial scene is like.
Longstanding personal SM relationships can allow for other styles, without limits or safewords for example (simply bacause those are already well understood by both partners.)
Anyway male subs tend to be: lawyers, doctors, captains of commerce and industry, academics, militayr officers, government people, diplomats, high executives, entrepreneurs -- no wimps to be seen. They are looking for ROLE REVERSAL.
Many people who start out as a Top (myself for example) end up playing on the bottom later in life because we observe how much fun our own bottoms (subs) were having. And Domination (lifestyle or commercial) is HARD WORK. Submission is easier and more fun. Hard core Tops who swear that they would NEVER submit tend to be Type A personality control freaks.
A lot of professional Dommes in USA -- play in their private lives on the bottom. It's the same principle. Role reversal.
BTW in the lifestyle Scene in USA, at least the Het side (because the gay and lesbian SM Scene are vibrant and influential) most guys are Tops and females mostly subs. Male subs have a hard time finding non commercial female Dommes because they (male subs) are vastly more numerous than non P$P) female Dommes.
I hope this helps.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 7:45 am on Sep. 18, 2002
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chateaujade
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I'd estimate that the Japanese SM scene is 80-90% male Dom/fem sub, and the SM porn reflects the scene demographics.
BTW we used to use Japanese female Dominant videos to teach new Dommes how NOT to play, so much brutality (like kicking guys in the head) and so little technique -- shibari, rope bondage being an exception.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:49 am on Sep. 18, 2002
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MrJoe
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"Anyway male subs tend to be: lawyers, doctors, captains of commerce and industry, academics, militayr officers, government people, diplomats, high executives, entrepreneurs -- no wimps to be seen."
Yes, this is what I have alweays heard.
"They are looking for ROLE REVERSAL."
That makes perfect sense, I just thought it was too obvious. Ý(Gives me an interseting possible insight into my enjoyment of mild domination, no? Yikes!)
"Domination (lifestyle or commercial) is HARD WORK. Submission is easier..."
This too had occured to me. ÝI can easily see how that would be true.
"...the absolute paradox of the Scene is that it is the sub who defines totally the borders of the session, the limits of play; while the Domme is at worst a servitor of the sub, carrying out HIS wishes..."
I love the ying/yang of that (which I see throughout life);a great analogy for all sorts of human relations.
I am reassured that I'm not alone in my feelings about the brutality I've seen in the manifestations of Japanese sex play. (To any Japanese; I sincerely apologize if I have offended. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Again much thanks for the education chateau.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:09 am on Sep. 18, 2002
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Jumping Jack
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CJ
Thanks for your comprehensive replies. I "think" I understand a little better.
At least enough now to know that it is not for me which I am sure you would agree is a good thing to know
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:43 am on Sep. 18, 2002
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chateaujade
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JJ no problem...it's a niche, no one expects everyone to be interested in this, and in fact it isn't even easy to discuss because so many people have no perspective, or harbor unrealistic prejudices (like Thai bar girls, who have been absolutely saturated with the hogwallow that anyone kinky is a serial killer, so run away, run away.)
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 8:57 am on Sep. 18, 2002
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