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Hugh Jardon
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I agree with Golden Star.
Luke, your post was very well reasoned and debated. I agree with everything you said and you expressed it so well. It was far more than a humble opinion; it was a warm and heartfelt attitude towards the treatment of your fellow human beings which does you credit as a person. You're obviously a decent bloke. 
If I were a Thai prostitute, I'd much rather have Luke as a client than Repeat Offender, that's for sure! 
There are two things that he doesn't seem able to grasp. One is that if you treat people with consideration and kindness, they respond in kind. The other is that Thai girls involved in the sex industry are much better at it than their Western conterparts and he cannot see why I should appreciate that so much.
Although he sneers at my "Victorian" values, I myself am proud of them. We can debate whether the girls like doing this work or not. Maybe some do, but the majority are forced into it by their poverty or broken marriages to unreliable husbands. I described these as "wretched" circumstances, but you obviously believe that this viewpoint is Victorian. I'm not about to do a Gladstone and try and rescue these girls from their immoral work. They do it for money, I do it for sexual gratification, so all is normal. But I do at least recognise that they are human beings with feelings, desires and emotions of their own and there is no reason why the time I spend with them should not be mutually enjoyable. It is in my nature (because of my "Victorian" values) that I usually treat people with civility. It does no harm and often brings out the best in others in return.
Luke was spot on with this observation:-
And yes, the line between illusion and reality is sometimes blurred, even for the girl. It's no use making absolutist statements that claim that one state of mind always prevails in either the girls or the punters. Human beings, even the most simple minded, are far too complex to be reduced to a pat formula.
As he also was so succinct in pointing out, it is because of the GFE that we get from them, that we travel so far to be with them. I fail to see why you cannot comprehend that Thai BGs are much better at sex because they are able to deliver a GFE which is rare amongst their Western sisters. It isn't always available to those who treat them as a piece of meat, to drunkards and ill-mannered oafs. I expect to receive a GFE because I put in the effort to treat them with civility, respect and tenderness. If you reckon that Western women in the sex industry measure up to the TGs, then you are probably in a minority of one.
You suggest that all women a prostitutes in one form or the other, be it wife or girlfriend.
If you read what I said again, you will see that I did not say that. This is what I said:-
And nearly all women trade money for sex one way or another, not just Bargirls. It's just that some are called prostitutes and others are called wives and girlfriends.
That quote and the one about the BGs boyfriends were only a few ingredients to add spice to the debate and keep the pot stirring. Just a few other angles, not necessarily my points of view. I certainly don't need to employ that "all women are prostitutes" mantra as an excuse for sex with TGs. For the past 3 years I have been a single guy, free from inhibitions, restrictions, twinges of conscience or feelings of guilt. And it has been a blast! Thank you TGs for being so adorably sweet and loving.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:45 am on June 1, 2005
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DaffyDuck
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Quote: from Hugh Jardon on 10:57 pm on June 1, 2005
There are two things that he doesn't seem able to grasp. One is that if you treat people with consideration and kindness, they respond in kind.
Luke and Hugh - kudos, both of you, to excellent posts regarding this thread/issue.
Unfortunately, RO is not the only person on this forum who doesn't grasp such an easy and essential concept - but really, that's pretty much all it takes 'Do unto others, as you want done unto yourself"
DvQ!
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 12:43 pm on June 1, 2005
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BigDUSA
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Quote: from DaffyDuck on 12:55 pm on June 2, 2005
Unfortunately, RO is not the only person on this forum who doesn't grasp such an easy and essential concept - but really, that's pretty much all it takes 'Do unto others, as you want done unto yourself"
DvQ!
I would rather follow a guy like RO and let the BG compare my style to his. I will end up with a way better GFE because she wants to stay with me. 
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:47 pm on June 1, 2005
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dotcom
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Yeah Right - the author of the Cheap Charlie's Guide to Pattaya Beach. Very Funny.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 3:22 pm on June 1, 2005
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Repeat Offender
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Quote:.
If I were a Thai prostitute, I'd much rather have Luke as a client than Repeat Offender, that's for sure!
Opportunity would be a fine thing.
There are two things that he doesn't seem able to grasp. One is that if you treat people with consideration and kindness, they respond in kind. The other is that Thai girls involved in the sex industry are much better at it than their Western conterparts and he cannot see why I should appreciate that so much.
I didn't say that you did not enjoy yourself, but that you are deluding yourself when you believe that BG's are at all interested your good luvin'.
Although he sneers at my "Victorian" values, I myself am proud of them. We can debate whether the girls like doing this work or not. Maybe some do, but the majority are forced into it by their poverty or broken marriages to unreliable husbands. I described these as "wretched" circumstances.....
But I do at least recognise that they are human beings with feelings, desires and emotions of their own....
As I said, your purported respect, your recognition that BG's have feelings, ( big of you, that ), does not inhibit you from benefiting from what you regard as forced and wretched circumstances.
Indeed, you should be proud that your values are so accommodating!
Given that you are so polite, so considerate, it would be simply good manners to first as the BG if she is even interested in your offer of mutually goodtime.
You also acknowledge that BG's are forced into prostitution by poverty, so you should at least consider the idea offering some money in its stead. In this way, a value can put a value on your claims.
I fail to see why you cannot comprehend that Thai BGs are much better at sex because they are able to deliver a GFE which is rare amongst their Western sisters.
I asked you WHY you EXPECT of Thai prostitutes, what you acknowledge is not available from their Western counterparts.
It isn't always available to those who treat them as a piece of meat, to drunkards and ill-mannered oafs.
I expect to receive a GFE because I put in the effort to treat them with civility, respect and tenderness.
Those cads and bounders! They shall not drink from the well of GFE.
You make a virtue of simple manners, and expect (!) to be rewarded it.
If you reckon that Western women in the sex industry measure up to the TGs, then you are probably in a minority of one.
Always the outsider. Here's the pisser. I like Thai and Western prostitutes.
You deny that you said all (most) women are prostitutes.
This is what you wrote.
And nearly all women trade money for sex one way or another, not just Bargirls. It's just that some are called prostitutes and others are called wives and girlfriends.
Read:- "Women who trade money for sex are either bargirls, wives or girlfriends".
Women who trade money for sex are called prostitutes.
Therefore.........go on, you can do it.
That is what you said, and meant.
That quote and the one about the BGs boyfriends were only a few ingredients to add spice to the debate and keep the pot stirring. Just a few other angles, not necessarily my points of view.
Anything else that you wrote, but didn't mean ?
Luke was spot on with this observation:-
And yes, the line between illusion and reality is sometimes blurred, even for the girl. It's no use making absolutist statements that claim that one state of mind always prevails in either the girls or the punters. Human beings, even the most simple minded, are far too complex to be reduced to a pat formula.
But your "pat formula" being the exception, I presume ?
As he also was so succinct in pointing out, it is because of the GFE that we get from them, that we travel so far to be with them. I fail to see why you cannot comprehend that Thai BGs are much better at sex because they are able to deliver a GFE which is rare amongst their Western sisters
Now who is generalising. I don't, and would not travel to BKK purely for sex.
RO
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 4:22 pm on June 1, 2005
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Hugh Jardon
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OK, RO, let's go around the houses again just for your benefit.
I don't see much support for your position. There is general agreement from others that if you treat people with courtesy and kindness that they respond in kind. We all seem to be able to make the connection that this manifests itself in what we like to call the GFE with Thai BGs. Unfortunately, you are either being deliberately stubborn, or your thought processes cannot make the simple leap to assimilate this concept.
I didn't say that you did not enjoy yourself, but that you are deluding yourself when you believe that BG's are at all interested your good luvin'.
Again, you cannot understand that if a BG is given a choice of being treated with tenderness, kindness and consideration, she would prefer that to being treated badly. Easy for you to pour scorn on statements like this, but instead of just poo-pooing them, why not try and provide your reasoning as to why you think that she is not interested in having a pleasant experience?
As I said, your purported respect, your recognition that BG's have feelings, ( big of you, that ), does not inhibit you from benefiting from what you regard as forced and wretched circumstances.
Indeed, you should be proud that your values are so accommodating!
Given that you are so polite, so considerate, it would be simply good manners to first as the BG if she is even interested in your offer of mutually goodtime.
You also acknowledge that BG's are forced into prostitution by poverty, so you should at least consider the idea offering some money in its stead. In this way, a value can put a value on your claims.
Yes, it was magnaminous of me to recognise that BGs have feelings, wasn't it? Perhaps you can learn from my example.
As you say, as I am a good mannered guy, I do in fact ask her if she is interested in my offer of a mutually good time. We also agree beforehand what will be involved, whether ST or LT, etc.
You suggest that because I recognise that she has been forced into prostitution by poverty, that maybe I should offer to pay her the money without the sex. I'll try and get you to see this from your own point of view and it might then be clearer to you why I do not consider this option seriously.
Imagine if you can that you find yourself in dire straits financially, that you are really poor and unable to support yourself and your family. Would you feel comfortable receiving charity from others, or would you prefer to earn it? I expect that if you were a proud man, with any self-respect, you would prefer to earn that money. So, should I insult the dignity of those BGs by just handing them over the cash? Post- coitally, I get a nice warm feeling inside, knowing that I've helped her financially and that she might also have taken some pride in her work that has earned her that money.
I asked you WHY you EXPECT of Thai prostitutes, what you acknowledge is not available from their Western counterparts.
This is really simple to answer. I have come to expect it in the same way that I expect good service from a 5* Hotel. By and large, Thai BGs are the best in their profession; they are the creme de la creme. Perhaps if you dispute that statement, you'd care to tell us all where their superiors can be found.
Those cads and bounders! They shall not drink from the well of GFE.
You make a virtue of simple manners, and expect (!) to be rewarded it.
Here we go again. Perhaps instead of sneering, try and convince everybody that the worse that you treat the girl, the better experience she will give you. You obviously can't grasp that opposite concept. You're not into S & M by any chance? Domination your thing, is it?
You deny that you said all (most) women are prostitutes.
This is what you wrote.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And nearly all women trade money for sex one way or another, not just Bargirls. It's just that some are called prostitutes and others are called wives and girlfriends.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read:- "Women who trade money for sex are either bargirls, wives or girlfriends".
Women who trade money for sex are called prostitutes.
Therefore.........go on, you can do it.
That is what you said, and meant.
Please see that I used the words "nearly" and "in one way or another". You interpret it how you want to. The majority of adult men go with prostitutes at some stage in their lives, so therefore most women are married to men who have slept with prostitutes. But don't forget that you also pay prostitutes for sex too, so don't try and attain some moral high ground
But your "pat formula" being the exception, I presume ?
What formula is this that I espouse? That people respond to good treatment from others? You quote me quoting Luke, but he says the same thing as me, so it appears we are both guilty. Big DUSA and others too. It must be immensely satisfying knowing that you are right when so many others are wrong, eh?
Now who is generalising. I don't, and would not travel to BKK purely for sex.
Me neither. I also like the people, the culture, the food, the scenery, the climate, the architecture, History etc.
But I like the girls so much, that I'm marrying one on 16th. She just loves my Victorian values.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:03 pm on June 1, 2005
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DaffyDuck
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Quote: from Hugh Jardon on 7:15 am on June 2, 2005
Unfortunately, you are either being deliberately stubborn, or your thought processes cannot make the simple leap to assimilate this concept.
All of the above -- he's being deliberately stubborn, to see how often he can make you run in the circles, and IRL he's too simple-minded to figure out the concept. Look at the meaning of his handle, and then do the math.
Don't waste your time on fools that harass you for fun.
DvQ!
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:27 pm on June 1, 2005
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Hugh Jardon
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Daffy
Sometimes I enjoy the sport. Sometimes, one realises that one is  though.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:53 am on June 2, 2005
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DaffyDuck
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Quote: from Hugh Jardon on 2:05 pm on June 2, 2005
Daffy
Sometimes I enjoy the sport. Sometimes, one realises that one is though.
It's fun if you have a worthwhile opponent (read: intelligent), any other tie it's just pearls before swine.
In this particular case, your excellent eloquence and reasoning is wasted on the oaf.
DvQ!
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 9:21 am on June 2, 2005
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manowar
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wow, all these analytical minds trying to disect whether one should "respect" or not a TBG when one can't even agree with another what the word "respect" really means. It's one big waste of time ( and I think HJ just has way too much of that ). She ( TBG) first goes to bed with you because you offer her money and you don't look like a big creep. You surprised her because you treat her like a "good" girl and she really appreciates that. So she developes a liking for you......and then even maybe some feelings ( I didn't say "love", I said "feelings") for you. You two get along famously because you like most ( I didn't say "everything", I said "most") of what she/he does. But you now try to make her your "soul" mate by not paying her, not buying her presents, not caring about her sick bro, old dad and poor mom.....etc. She needs to make a living, she does not understand why you don't share some of your wealth with her when you are so "rich" and she is so "poor". What kind of a soul mate is that when you don't "care" ? she dumps you for another kinder, gentler (=generous) "soul" mate. Guys, it's not about "respect", it's about survival and trying to get ahead. If you are a poor farang on welfare, you can respect till your face turns blue, it's 99% guarantee she will not take a second look at you the minute she finds out that you can't take care of her. It's universal. Respect her, hell of course. Why not, it's common decency between two adult human beings and it doesn't cost you anything. But it won't get you any pussies either in the East or in the West if you cannot provide for her. We, men, are born to provide. They, women are bron to be provided to and take care of us. It's that simple, stupid.
Disclaimer : None of the above is scientifically tested or proven. Not a minute of research time has been put in it. Believe at your own risks and perils. God has mercy on you.........5555
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:20 pm on June 2, 2005
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