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Chompoo
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ccvvbbnn, the girl is dishonest and clearly would have taken you for a ride if you had let her. It would be childish for you to go out of your way to seek retribution on her, but you also certainly don't need to pay her (or tip her) anything more than fair value for the services she provided. Many, including me, will tip a girl extra if we think she was a good person stuck in a bad position; however, this girl deserves no tip other than for how good a job she did keeping you happy. If you enjoy being with her, play the game with a smile on your face. On the other hand you have no obligation to help her conceal her dishonesty and if it comes to light you should not pretend that it's okay.
Make sure you tell her how she slipped up so she won't make the same mistake again. Trust me she will have a heck alot of respect for you and on future visits you will probably have more fun with her because she won't bullshit you.
Helping her in her scam is really, really low. Her deceit may be understandable, but it should not be condoned or abetted. Doing so because you actually get something out of it (i.e. better service at discount prices) is even lower.
This is her job remember, it's how she makes a living. Is it right, who's to say?
There is no doubt that what she is doing is clearly wrong by almost any normal ethical and moral code. It is not her job to scam money from her customers.
I am not sure I follow your logic. Why are you not positively sure you will pay her the agreed price? You statement hints at uncertainty.
There is uncertainty. She tried to scam him and that does put the contract on shaky ground. I agree he probably should pay that amount if everything else is fine, but since the fee was agreed upon under false pretenses I could understand if he didn't want to pay the full amount.
The girl survives by selling herself. ÝPut yourself in her shoes - would you have acted differently if your very existence depended on pleasing people (and thereby getting some money from them)?
What this girl is doing goes far beyond that. Being a prostitute doesn't automatically give you carte blanche for thievery and deceit.
You pay for the GFE and get it. She lies to you, so what?
and
A lot of sanukers come to LOS for the GFE. Well, being told "I love you" is part of that experience. The naive believe it, the more seasoned take it for what it is....a part of their service to you.
No, no, no! There are limits to what you call the GFE, on your side and on hers. A little play acting and loving words are fine, even harmless white lies are okay. Going beyond that and talking seriously about the future, especially when the clear intention is to deceive for profit is definitely not part of the "GFE service." And if the girl does get carried away and says "I want marry you and have your babies" and the guy takes it seriously she has to immediately set him straight. This girl clearly crossed the line.
So it is not unfair for her to keep out as many lines as possible, unless if you have already spelt out your intentions clearly, which I don't think you would have done in six days.
Again, this is just wrong. It is okay for her to keep her customers on the hook. "I miss you. I loved our time together. When you come back? I want to see you again." All those are fine, what this girl and many others do goes way beyond that. It is completely deceitful and damaging. I can't believe the double standards that people have regarding bargirls.
I try to explain to many people why there isn't anything inherently wrong with prostitution, but it becomes very difficult when so many people just naturally associate prostitution with dishonesty, fraud, violence, etc. and just willingly accept or even encourage it. Prostitutes can and should be held to the same moral and ethical standards as everyone else.
Try to remember we are all capable of lying in a business environment, and that is exactly what this is.
Some businessmen actually do have ethics and do manage to somehow avoid outright lying.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:33 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
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Ballsburstin
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MacTheHappy,
Regarding you comment, "grab it like a drowning man grabs a lifebelt."
I think I would revise it to: "grab it like a drowning man grabs a weightbelt." ÝHa!
- Balls
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 1:53 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
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jjsushi
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Make sure you tell her how she slipped up so she won't make the same mistake again. Trust me she will have a heck alot of respect for you and on future visits you will probably have more fun with her because she won't bullshit you.
CHOMPOO: ÝHelping her in her scam is really, really low. Her deceit may be understandable, but it should not be condoned or abetted. Doing so because you actually get something out of it (i.e. better service at discount prices) is even lower.
JJSUSHI>>> Now we all can't go saving the world can we? Ý IMO I don't think there is nothing wrong with telling the young lady to in the future log off and exit from her e-mail account and browser. ÝThat is practical knowledge and not neccessarily aiding and abetting her hustle. ÝYou may be helping her in the future to avoid the same mistake only next time the guy who reads the e-mails may have an uncontrollable jealous temper and inflict bodily harm on her.
This is her job remember, it's how she makes a living. Is it right, who's to say?
CHOMPOO: There is no doubt that what she is doing is clearly wrong by almost any normal ethical and moral code. It is not her job to scam money from her customers.
JJSUSHI>>>The young lady is doing what she has to do to survive and maximize her income. I don't think there is a pension plan for prostitutes in Thailand. ÝAlso, who am I to judge what is moral and immoral? I have my personal mores but I am not God and I do not live a life without fault.
I am not sure I follow your logic. Why are you not positively sure you will pay her the agreed price? You statement hints at uncertainty.
CHOMPOO: There is uncertainty. She tried to scam him and that does put the contract on shaky ground. I agree he probably should pay that amount if everything else is fine, but since the fee was agreed upon under false pretenses I could understand if he didn't want to pay the full amount.
JJSUSHI>>>The contract is I pay you and in return you sleep with me for a cetain price. ÝThe "scam" as you put it does not enter into this equation. I could not understand if he didn't want to pay the agreed price. ÝThe deal breaker is if she didn't sleep with him or perform agreed upon sexual acts. Ý
Sorry buddy but this is not Judge Judy.
The girl survives by selling herself. ÝPut yourself in her shoes - would you have acted differently if your very existence depended on pleasing people (and thereby getting some money from them)?
CHOMPOO: What this girl is doing goes far beyond that. Being a prostitute doesn't automatically give you carte blanche for thievery and deceit.
JJSUSHI>>>First, the girl didn't steal anything. She may have acquired money given to her by lying but last time I understood it, deceit is part of the prostitution game. He didn't go to a brothel and pay for a simple act of sex. He attempted to create an experience that was a girlfriend fantasy. She used deciet to help maintain the fantasy. He messed it up by being too damn nosy and then caring about the information he found.
Intelligent individuals leave the fantasy when they depart Thailand and re-live it when they return. Guillable men try to hold onto the fantasy thousands of miles away and pay for the continuance by sending money. Now if they understanfd that and stiil want to send money then good for them.
You pay for the GFE and get it. She lies to you, so what?
and
A lot of sanukers come to LOS for the GFE. Well, being told "I love you" is part of that experience. The naive believe it, the more seasoned take it for what it is....a part of their service to you.
CHOMPOO: No, no, no! There are limits to what you call the GFE, on your side and on hers. A little play acting and loving words are fine, even harmless white lies are okay. Going beyond that and talking seriously about the future, especially when the clear intention is to deceive for profit is definitely not part of the "GFE service." And if the girl does get carried away and says "I want marry you and have your babies" and the guy takes it seriously she has to immediately set him straight. This girl clearly crossed the line.
JJSUSHI>>>We are talking about educated adult males here not coddled children, if they want to buy into the fantasy and believe it as reality then let them. The woman has no obligation to set them straight. ÝMaybe she should hand all of her customers a printed guide book that details how to interact with a prostitute?
So it is not unfair for her to keep out as many lines as possible, unless if you have already spelt out your intentions clearly, which I don't think you would have done in six days.
CHOMPOO: Again, this is just wrong. It is okay for her to keep her customers on the hook. "I miss you. I loved our time together. When you come back? I want to see you again." All those are fine, what this girl and many others do goes way beyond that. It is completely deceitful and damaging. I can't believe the double standards that people have regarding bargirls.
I try to explain to many people why there isn't anything inherently wrong with prostitution, but it becomes very difficult when so many people just naturally associate prostitution with dishonesty, fraud, violence, etc. and just willingly accept or even encourage it. Prostitutes can and should be held to the same moral and ethical standards as everyone else.
JJSUSHI>>> You really do have this penchant for labeling things "right" and "wrong" don't you?
Prostitution is illegal in Thailand and it is shunted by mainstream society, therefore it is naturally controlled by those who lie, steal, utilize violence and are involved in organized crime. ÝYou have really got to be kidding me when you talk about holding a prostitute to the same moral and ethical standards as mainstream society? ÝA prostitutes moral and ethical standards or practices are a direct reflection of the underworld in which her profession exists.
I am really surprised to hear an educated man who has or did participate in the scene make an incredulous statement such as that. I think you need to re-contemplate that one.
Try to remember we are all capable of lying in a business environment, and that is exactly what this is.
CHOMPOO: Some businessmen actually do have ethics and do manage to somehow avoid outright lying.
JJSUSHI>>>Same same for some prostitutes
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:18 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
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Chompoo
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JJSUSHI>>> Now we all can't go saving the world can we? Ý IMO I don't think there is nothing wrong with telling the young lady to in the future log off and exit from her e-mail account and browser. ÝThat is practical knowledge and not neccessarily aiding and abetting her hustle. ÝYou may be helping her in the future to avoid the same mistake only next time the guy who reads the e-mails may have an uncontrollable jealous temper and inflict bodily harm on her.
CHOMPOO>> I'm not saying that she should be prevented from learning that info, but if you provide that info to her while knowing what she is doing then you are guilty of helping her perpetrate a fraud. If a jealous guy chooses to take retribution on her that is not my concern; she is playing a very dangerous game and must face the consequences. By the same logic I wouldn't give self-defense tips to a mugger, even if he was a good-natured one who really needed the money.
JJSUSHI>>>The young lady is doing what she has to do to survive and maximize her income. I don't think there is a pension plan for prostitutes in Thailand. ÝAlso, who am I to judge what is moral and immoral? I have my personal mores but I am not God and I do not live a life without fault.
CHOMPOO>> She is going far, far beyond what it takes to survive. By your logic you could excuse any fraud and deception. And it is bullshit that you don't judge others, you do it all the time here (e.g. you very easily have decided it's not okay for the guy to not pay her now that he's found out her game). Morals and ethics are somewhat relative and even decent people can argue over the gray areas. However, no one I consider decent would approve of someone using whatever deceit necessary to milk, say 25,000 baht from a lovestruck guy, no matter how clueless he is.
JJSUSHI>>>The contract is I pay you and in return you sleep with me for a cetain price. ÝThe "scam" as you put it does not enter into this equation. I could not understand if he didn't want to pay the agreed price. ÝThe deal breaker is if she didn't sleep with him or perform agreed upon sexual acts. ÝSorry buddy but this is not Judge Judy.
CHOMPOO>> The agreement was for an honest girl who has only been on the game for a month. If what he gets is a cold-hearted, calculating girl then he is not getting what he contracted for. If my restaurant offers to serve you choice american beef and instead I provide you local beef that is pretty close, you are not obligated to pay the high price that we originally agreed to (even if, at the time you didn't notice the difference).
JJSUSHI>>>First, the girl didn't steal anything. She may have acquired money given to her by lying but last time I understood it, deceit is part of the prostitution game. He didn't go to a brothel and pay for a simple act of sex. He attempted to create an experience that was a girlfriend fantasy. She used deciet to help maintain the fantasy. He messed it up by being too damn nosy and then caring about the information he found.
Intelligent individuals leave the fantasy when they depart Thailand and re-live it when they return. Guillable men try to hold onto the fantasy thousands of miles away and pay for the continuance by sending money. Now if they understanfd that and stiil want to send money then good for them.
CHOMPOO>> By most reasonable definitions using fraud to obtain money or goods is indeed stealing. As I explained there are reasonable limits to the GFE and what this girl has done has completely crossed them. There is absolutely no worthwhile value in the girl trying to make long-term plans, promising the guy she will remain faithful, etc. This is just plain fraud in prostitution or any other kind of business.
JJSUSHI>>>We are talking about educated adult males here not coddled children, if they want to buy into the fantasy and believe it as reality then let them. The woman has no obligation to set them straight. ÝMaybe she should hand all of her customers a printed guide book that details how to interact with a prostitute?
CHOMPOO>>> First you seem to have adopted the Thai philosophy that whoever gets ripped off deserved it. I don't subscribe to that philosophy and find life more enjoyable when I can occasionally let my guard down and not have to worry about everyone in sight trying to hustle me. Second, what does love have to do with education or even intelligence. Third, there is no rule book because every situation is unique. Your rule book seems to say that you should never, ever trust a prostitute and it also seems to include a rule that it is okay for prostitutes to make whatever gross lies they care to. Does it also say that I can lie and cheat them whenever I feel like it? Can I tell them I'm running off to the ATM and then ditch them? Presumably you rule book would have no moral or ethical problem with that.
JJSUSHI>>> You really do have this penchant for labeling things "right" and "wrong" don't you?
Prostitution is illegal in Thailand and it is shunted by mainstream society, therefore it is naturally controlled by those who lie, steal, utilize violence and are involved in organized crime. ÝYou have really got to be kidding me when you talk about holding a prostitute to the same moral and ethical standards as mainstream society? ÝA prostitutes moral and ethical standards or practices are a direct reflection of the underworld in which her profession exists.
I am really surprised to hear an educated man who has or did participate in the scene make an incredulous statement such as that. ÝI think you need to re-contemplate that one.
CHOMPOO>> Yes, some things are clearly right and some are clearly wrong. There is a lot of gray area where we can discuss whether certain things are wrong, yet understandable or even justifiable (e.g. is it okay to steal medicine for your dying son). In this case it is absolutely clear that the girl is acting unethically and we know of no mitigating circumstances (not that I can even conceive of any that would justify her 25000B requests).
There is absolutely no reason why prostitutes can't act morally and ethically within certain limits. First, what I said did not apply exclusively to Thailand. Second, there is no reason why a prostitute can't act as ethically as other people who live in the same environment. I'm not expecting a Lumpini streetwalker to have the same ethics as the Pope, but there is no reason why a gogo girl can't be as moral as, say, a souvenir hawker or someone else from a similar socio-economic background.
To deny that there are great differences between "honest" pros and the grossly dishonest scammers demeans all those who try to be good. In fact, in your world, those who do not try to take every dishonest advantage are looked upon as suckers and are ridiculed.
I really would love to see your rules of conduct clearly written out. Mine are relatively simple and fair to everyone and I don't need to bring my own ethics and morals down to the level of those I interact with.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 7:38 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
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ccvvbb
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Quote: from jjsushi on 10:08 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
You are evidently emotionally involved with this situation because you refer to a previous personal relationship as a rationale and you felt the need to "do something" either through exposing her scam or adjusting her compensation.
After 5 or 6 days?? Give me a f_cking break, Are you a psychiatrist?
Read my comments, this girl will get her money and no tip........ This post is for others to learn from. Not me, I have been there. And what are you going to tell me when I tell you she is now "in love" with me and wants to have my baby.......
THIS POST IS FOR OTHERS TO LEARN FROM...
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 8:21 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
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ABC
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ccvvbb:
In my opinion, I don't think she loves you like the definition/context of word Love usual is used in. Love being I love you and only you. I believe from your initial post that she only Ýwants your money and that is why she has said she wants to have your baby.
Whatever you do, please don't give her that. That ... meaning a child. Not unless you want to accept responsibility for the child and mother.
As for the rest, tip or don't tip, and I would not go back into her email account after you have stopped seeing her.
But ..... great thread for others to read so they don't possible fall into "the Bkk cupid shot me with an arrow and I'm in Love" trap.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:28 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
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ccvvbb
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ABC
Once I am gone it does not matter what this girl does with her life, I do feel bad that she has to work in the bars but I cannot change that. I definitely will not give her a baby or even do her without a condom. When a Thai girl is "in love" (so to speak) it is with your money, I do not know everything about BG's but do know enough to get by OK without getting shafted. If I need information I come to the brothers here who are very helpfull and have been around a lot longer than me, CV
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:34 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
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jjsushi
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Quote: from ccvvbb on 9:21 am on Feb. 5, 2003
Quote: from jjsushi on 10:08 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
You are evidently emotionally involved with this situation because you refer to a previous personal relationship as a rationale and you felt the need to "do something" either through exposing her scam or adjusting her compensation.
After 5 or 6 days?? Give me a f_cking break, Are you a psychiatrist?
Read my comments, this girl will get her money and no tip........ This post is for others to learn from. Not me, I have been there. And what are you going to tell me when I tell you she is now "in love" with me and wants to have my baby.......
THIS POST IS FOR OTHERS TO LEARN FROM...
I didn't say you were in love with the girl. I said you were emotionally involved. You brought up the facts that you were burnt before; felt sorry for the "other" guys because you have been there; feel compelled to expose her hustle; conteplated not paying her the original amount; adamant abot not paying a tip even though you admittd you were having a good time;top it off you ask for advice in the forum as to what you should do.
I don't have to be a "f_cking psychiatrist" to see you are or were evidently emotionally involved in the situation when you initially posted.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:38 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
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ccvvbb
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Thank you doctor, what would you do prescribe for a treatment??
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 8:40 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
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ABC
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ccvvbb:
Didn't even want to go there with you about what will happened after you stop seeing her. That's your business. Okay. I did put the point about the email, because others have suggested you continue to monitor her account.
Just wanted to see if you Ýwere even thinking about the baby proposition. There's been other threads where some members have contemplated the baby gift.
Anyways ........ sounds like you have your business handled.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:40 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
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