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cyborg
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Guys, I agree with Holy Saint.A deal is a deal and you can politely rectify the situation by paying less.
I personally have not had a runner but have had starfish experiences. Some girls complain that their mouth is tired and dont want to keep sucking. Then they complain about bangin...it really pisses me off. In the future if I get crap performance right out of the gate I will invite the lady to leave.
After you have been with certain nice ladies that treat you well it seems to me that developing a group of regulars is a good way to go. Better GFE that way and you can always throw in some additional auditions for more regulars. Seems if you are always getting new ones exclusively you run a much higher risk of dealing with crap like this.
Long live the rotating harem!! 
Cyborg
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:14 pm on Mar. 14, 2005
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Ballsburstin
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Holy Saint,
agree with your points. Especially: "I think this is a learned trade because so many have been able to get away with it that they teach the others to do it. "
If you sit around in the gogo bars before they open and chat with the ladies (or spend time with them outside the clubs with their coworkers and friends, many of whom are ex-gogo girls), you'll hear all sorts of stories and jokes about their customers. Importantly, the seasoned girls will be teaching the newer girls the ropes, and, depenging upon their attitudes, will also be teaching them the various cons to maximize money with minimal work. They know very well what they are up to, and this sort of cut and run tactic, after LT has been agreed upon, is a well known, and practised con. I think it's wrong, mean's they had a verbal contract they never intended to keep. It also has a very negative impact on the punter who got screwed and the P4P industry. Reduces the sanuk factor measurably.
- Balls
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 9:36 pm on Mar. 14, 2005
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madfrog
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Nah, what needs to be accepted is that when you dont deliver what you promise you cant expect full pay.
i agree 100% with this !
Madfrog
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:01 pm on Mar. 15, 2005
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Hugh Jardon
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I don't see anybody disputing that if the girl breaks the deal that she should be paid less. What is up for debate is whether she should be paid substantially less than the ST rate, although she has probably fulfilled the ST requirements, even though the agreement was for LT.
Perhaps I need to explain it in another way that can be more readily understood.
You go to McDonalds, purveyors of Junk food to the masses. You order a Cheeseburger, at say $2 (God knows what they actually cost), but the cheese is absent, so you have been served an ordinary burger priced at $1.50. So what do you pay? Hands up all the Cheap Charlies that said $1
Nah, what needs to be accepted is that when you don't pay what you promise, you can't expect full service.
Trouble is, by that stage, the BG is well and truly f***ed!
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 12:40 pm on Mar. 15, 2005
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manowar
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Quote: from Hugh Jardon on 8:34 am on Mar. 15, 2005
I don't see anybody disputing that if the girl breaks the deal that she should be paid less. What is up for debate is whether she should be paid substantially less than the ST rate, although she has probably fulfilled the ST requirements, even though the agreement was for LT.
Perhaps I need to explain it in another way that can be more readily understood.
You go to McDonalds, purveyors of Junk food to the masses. You order a Cheeseburger, at say $2 (God knows what they actually cost), but the cheese is absent, so you have been served an ordinary burger priced at $1.50. So what do you pay? Hands up all the Cheap Charlies that said $1
Nah, what needs to be accepted is that when you don't pay what you promise, you can't expect full service.
Trouble is, by that stage, the BG is well and truly f***ed!
ok, let's play this out : I go to Burger King (no McDonald, please), I order two burgers 'cos I am real hungry. I eat one, open the other bag, there is no 2nd burger there. I go back to the cashier, demand my $$ back. He/she gives me 1/2 of what I paid. I walk away feeling quite ok. But Dutch goes back to the cashier, he demands 3/4 of his money although he already ate one burger ( and the fries). The cahier refuse to oblige. They get into a big fight. Police is called. Lawyers are hired, goons get involved, someone gets hit...........story gets on Bangkok Post !
Why ?
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 1:58 pm on Mar. 15, 2005
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Holy Saint
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Hugh Jardon, I realize there are different rates for different venues and different cities in Thailand. I also realize that at a gogo in Bangkok it's probably 1000 to 1500 baht short time for the people who aren't easily swayed into paying more. The woman Dutch had a problem with asked for 1000 baht. He offered her 500 baht. To me, she's causing the whole problem assuming it wasn't Dutch being horrific. She to me shouldn't be dictating the negotiations for the rate given she broke off the deal. Even then, when you go out and buy something from people selling on the streets, you don't take their first offer I'm sure. It's taught you should come back at least 50% or less sometimes and that's what Dutch did. Even if the short time rate is agreed to be 1000 how much less would make you happy? Give her 700 baht, 800 baht? Either way he wasn't that far off, and he still paid her.
Now say Dutch asked this gogo girl for a short time and she agreed with no discussion of money. If she did what is normally performed, and he gave her 500 baht, would I consider that cheap and disrespectful? Most likely barring any reasonable explanation.
This is really a con game on the women's part. They know they have a customer who wants to go with them, but they don't want to go long time. They don't want to loose out on the potential income, so they agree knowing they will attempt and most likely succeed to make it a short time. These women intended to do this and really don't deserve any extra help in my opinion on telling other people just pay the going rate when this was intentional. Was 500 kind of low, probably, but is another 200 to 300 baht really that much more to either side, probably not either.
There is another issue not to open another bag with P4P women especially in Thailand. You ask the woman if she "smokes" or blows and they tell you whole heartedly they do when they don't. It seals the deal and you take her back and then she won't blow you because she no likes or she does for like 3 seconds.
For the people who say there's something wrong with someone like Dutch because she wanted a short time only and it's never happened to them. Well for one thing, unless you know Dutch and I don't it's pretty hard to make a call like that based off of his posts only. I personally don't think he's said anything bad that he deserves that type of comment, but it's up to you. Just because it's never happened to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I think if you continually take gogo girls, it will happen to you eventually. I have no doubts about it as long as people continually let them get away with it by paying the standard rate for the short time for the particuliar venue.
As for the comparisons to the fast food restaurants, are you kidding me? Those prices are posted on a board. Where is the price posted in a gogo or a beer garden that you pay this much for short time and this much for long time?
Also, this was most likely a mistake by the servers not giving you what you ordered. The gogo woman is probably very wise to agreeing to long time and cutting it to short time after the fact.
manowar, in your situation you asked for your money back, I would have just been happy getting my second burger since that's what I wanted and I feel you most likely would get that second burger. If a woman agreed to a long time price with you and then she wanted to make it short time, I would be happier if she would just keep it to what we agreed with before.
Hugh Jardon, you said "Nah, what needs to be accepted is that when you don't pay what you promise, you can't expect full service." I am not trying to bash on you in anyway, because I can see where you are coming from in many ways. But is this only true for the farang or also for the thai woman? In Dutch's example he never negotiated a short time, he negotiated a long time. The price was set and if she performed the long time, he should of course pay at least what he agreed to. She changed it to a short time where there was no agreement to that. I don't get what you mean when you say "Trouble is, by that stage, the BG is well and truly f***ed!" I think in this case Dutch was f***ed. He now has to pay for a short time. He thought he had an overnight and if he wants one, he will have to go back out and try to find one and all the other work and money that comes with it (not necessarily a bad thing in Thailand but still).
If you are only upset about that Dutch offered 500 baht to her 1000 baht, I think the middle ground of 700-800 baht wasn't really material as it was principal.
And whoever thinks that what Dutch did is making a bad name for his country whereever that may be, I don't think so. The thai woman will probably respect him more because he wouldn't stand for the shennanigan where the person who pays the standard rate will be laughed at for being the fool to fall for the con and the assumption you pay the standard rate.
Peace to all, no offense meant. Just want to speak my mind on this and obviously I did with another long post.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:41 pm on Mar. 15, 2005
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bound4bangkok
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Hello all
Good points on both sides of the ball but I have to agree with the side of a agreement was broken by her and I need some compensation for my inconvience. When I do the 2 night barfine system I do it because 1 I am done for that evening and I want a shag shower and a warm body next to me when I wake up. I also want a companion for that next days plans ( Sight seeing shopping or whatever it may be). I also want a shag and a warm body for that next night and since I am tired from the all days activitys I just want to get backk to the hotal and rest up and things without haveing to go on the hunt again fora companion. Before the BF is even payed I make it very clear to the girl this is the conditions of the agreement. If she breaks them she knows right then what the prices will be for it and that in fulfilling the arranged agreement she will be compensated very well. Like I said before I never had a runner doing this.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:16 am on Mar. 16, 2005
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Hugh Jardon
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Holy Saint
What I meant by saying that the girl was well and truly f***ed was rather obvious I thought.
As manowar so succinctly paraphrases, Dutch has eaten the burger - and the fries.
Dutch having sampled the wares to a ST standard, the girl cannot then withdraw them as a bargaining counter.
I have been in this situation myself once before where the girl switched to ST from LT, mainly because she thought that a guy of my age (55) wouldn't be up to the sexual athleticism and stamina that I was. I merely paid her the ST rate, got dressed and went out for a replacement. It was no hardship. In fact I enjoy the hunt and having two different girls the same night was a bonus also.
Your remark that another 2/300 bt more was neither here nor there to either party was a bit naive. Of course, it was almost small change to Dutch, but would represent much more to an average Thai
------------------------------------------------------------------------
And whoever thinks that what Dutch did is making a bad name for his country whereever that may be, I don't think so. The thai woman will probably respect him more because he wouldn't stand for the shennanigan where the person who pays the standard rate will be laughed at for being the fool to fall for the con and the assumption you pay the standard rate
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets assess the parallel here. Some Bros respect Dutch for making a stand on an issue of principle. Others, consider that he is a cheapskate and treated her unfairly. But you think that most BGs will respect him? Why should their thinking be any different to ours? Well, I can assure you that a far higher % will be critical of his actions than would respect him. There is a thread here about which nationality the BGs prefer. Certain nationalities have reputations with the girls for meanness and others for generosity. So do you believe that the ones with the reputation for meanness are also respected by the Girls? Is that a flock of pigs flying overhead?
As CG says, we'll agree to differ, but I try to treat the girls fairly and with respect. So, they might try some scams from time to time. I don't think that any of them are exactly Mother Theresa, are they? But I don't think that it is right for us Farangs to blame them if they don't conform to some Western code of conduct.
Us punters are mostly well paid, well educated, abiding by Western standards of decency and moral codes. Most of the BGs are poorly educated, from the poorest rural parts of Thailand and suffer life's abuses with fortitude and a streetwise cunning that they develop through experience.
We are all playing the game. It doesn't hurt us to try and be a bit magnanimous or to make allowances for their occasional shortcomings, does it?
Sufficient to let her know that you've found out her little game. Petty to try and exact some financial revenge by paying less than the going rate for what you've had.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 10:09 am on Mar. 16, 2005
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Dutch
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Ok, let me get this out of the way once and for all:
I have no problem paying 1K for short time, hell I paid 60USD ST in Vientiane Laos in december with a girl I went to wonderland with (after hours club) no problem.
Anyway, lets say I was not farang but a thai or chinese customer, do you think she would have done the same? I dont think so. They dont get away with it with most asians, nor do western hookers get away with it, just thai girls and western men...Why?
Maybe becouse most view us as fat drunk unmannered buffalos who are easy to play for money. And maybe we often view them as poor uneducated inocent girls, potential girlfriends or someone we can "protect and save".
Reality is most westeners or even people travelling to thailand are not like that, but they dont meet the people traveling isaan for a month or hiking around pai for a couple of weeks. Mostly they get crew who's in a 1-2 week shag/drink holiday mode, nothing wrong with that but when thats about all you see you get a bit of a distorted view.
Same for BG's, hang around them for a while when they're not working and you'll discover they are on a whole adult, inteligent but above all streetwise girls. Players, who know exactly what they are doing.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:20 am on Mar. 16, 2005
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