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manowar
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Quote: from Hugh Jardon on 6:03 am on Mar. 16, 2005
Holy Saint
What I meant by saying that the girl was well and truly f***ed was rather obvious I thought.
As manowar so succinctly paraphrases, Dutch has eaten the burger - and the fries.
Dutch having sampled the wares to a ST standard, the girl cannot then withdraw them as a bargaining counter.
I have been in this situation myself once before where the girl switched to ST from LT, mainly because she thought that a guy of my age (55) wouldn't be up to the sexual athleticism and stamina that I was. I merely paid her the ST rate, got dressed and went out for a replacement. It was no hardship. In fact I enjoy the hunt and having two different girls the same night was a bonus also.
Your remark that another 2/300 bt more was neither here nor there to either party was a bit naive. Of course, it was almost small change to Dutch, but would represent much more to an average Thai
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And whoever thinks that what Dutch did is making a bad name for his country whereever that may be, I don't think so. The thai woman will probably respect him more because he wouldn't stand for the shennanigan where the person who pays the standard rate will be laughed at for being the fool to fall for the con and the assumption you pay the standard rate
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Lets assess the parallel here. Some Bros respect Dutch for making a stand on an issue of principle. Others, consider that he is a cheapskate and treated her unfairly. But you think that most BGs will respect him? Why should their thinking be any different to ours? Well, I can assure you that a far higher % will be critical of his actions than would respect him. There is a thread here about which nationality the BGs prefer. Certain nationalities have reputations with the girls for meanness and others for generosity. So do you believe that the ones with the reputation for meanness are also respected by the Girls? Is that a flock of pigs flying overhead?
As CG says, we'll agree to differ, but I try to treat the girls fairly and with respect. So, they might try some scams from time to time. I don't think that any of them are exactly Mother Theresa, are they? But I don't think that it is right for us Farangs to blame them if they don't conform to some Western code of conduct.
Us punters are mostly well paid, well educated, abiding by Western standards of decency and moral codes. Most of the BGs are poorly educated, from the poorest rural parts of Thailand and suffer life's abuses with fortitude and a streetwise cunning that they develop through experience.
We are all playing the game. It doesn't hurt us to try and be a bit magnanimous or to make allowances for their occasional shortcomings, does it?
Sufficient to let her know that you've found out her little game. Petty to try and exact some financial revenge by paying less than the going rate for what you've had.
HJ, I totally agree with you, you are my kind of guy to have a beer with. Dutch, all technicalities aside ( and yes, you are right in all counts, technically), have a heart ! 500 bahts more or less will not make or break you life. But for a TBG, it could mean whether she goes home next month to her family back at the villiage or not. You shag her S/T ( two hours shag, that is quite a shag), she breaks her deal for L/T ( for whatever reason, but it can't be us), you pay her 1,000 bahts with a smile, say thank you ( and good riddance ), walk her to the door and say " bye, bye, I love you". Everyone saves face, everyone happy, move on !
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:35 am on Mar. 16, 2005
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Holy Saint
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Hugh Jardon, I agree to disagree. Like I said before, I can understand your point of view. I just think that when someone like a gogo girl plays this game, I don't think pity the poor thai girl really comes to play here. I would think by this time she is a hardened pro who knows exactly what she is doing is wrong and devious. And given the amount of punters, she is probably doing a pretty good trade where the 200-300 baht is really minimal, and it is all about the money and glee of getting this over on someone.
The respect thing is something I have read about in many boards including this one about how thai girls will really laugh at you inside of how easy some punters are. I would think they laugh at some people for paying the ridiculous prices that they pay or how easily swayed they are.
I, like you, always treat the women with respect and dignity. Even when I have dealt with some scam by a woman like this I tried to do the same. Although in reality when someone does anything blatantly disrespectful to me or multiple acts of disrespect, I feel the person has gone beyond the deserving of respect on my part. I have always given respect to everyone until they have shown they don't deserve it, and it is up to me whether to maintain status quo.
You are right, the p4p girls are not mother theresas. I do treat them with respect, but am also keenly aware it's more act than sincerity on their side. They can and will turn on you at a moments notice. I understand we are in their country and abide by their culture. So if I get into a sticky situation (and rare that is) usually brought on by a p4p woman, I do act respectfully with a smile on my face.
I think at this point, if someone can't see the other side or just totally disagrees, it's not likely to happen. So whatever, that's why we are all different in our own unique ways. We cannot expect everyone to think and be what you or I want them to be. It would be quite boring then.
peace
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 12:02 pm on Mar. 16, 2005
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Dutch
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Quote: from manowar on 11:29 pm on Mar. 16, 2005
HJ, I totally agree with you, you are my kind of guy to have a beer with. Dutch, all technicalities aside ( and yes, you are right in all counts, technically), have a heart ! 500 bahts more or less will not make or break you life. But for a TBG, it could mean whether she goes home next month to her family back at the villiage or not. You shag her S/T ( two hours shag, that is quite a shag), she breaks her deal for L/T ( for whatever reason, but it can't be us), you pay her 1,000 bahts with a smile, say thank you ( and good riddance ), walk her to the door and say " bye, bye, I love you". Everyone saves face, everyone happy, move on !
Maybe you dont mind getting the piss taken out of by BG's, up to you. Whatever makes you feel good.But I'll take being called charlie over buffalo anyday.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:19 pm on Mar. 16, 2005
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NINGNING
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"Us punters are mostly well paid, well educated, abiding by Western standards of decency and moral codes."
That may well be the fact for most of the members on this forum.
But when I embark on the international flight to Bangkok and step into the plane I doubt that the majority of the single white males in the economy class is even at least a little bit educated, has ever heard of respect and dignity, knows how to apply commonsense or have a clue about reasonable behaviour, thats truly "... where bullshit walks..."
I do think for me it depends on the particular situation - I try to find out as much about the girl before, to have an idea about her intentions and perceptions - its exciting because I its not only a body I take back to my hotel.
If she then cheats its actually more a blow to my knowledge of human nature than to my budget. Maybe if the girl is doing this in a smart and sympathetic clever way I would be tempted to let it go. Anyway this kind of behaviour is not correct and should deserve a bit of correction.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 4:25 pm on Mar. 16, 2005
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harold444
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the best way to handle a runner is to let them run...............................lol.
people we are payung for SEX things dont go always as planned!
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 1:08 am on Mar. 17, 2005
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torrid59
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Quote: from manowar on 6:10 pm on Mar. 15, 2005
I think what Dutch needs in future is to have an American lawyer write up a "performance" contract based on current prevalent international laws. Spell out every concievable events with various penalty clause attached. Have the girl sign it in the American Embassy with a public notary present before taking her back to his place. If she negates on anything whatsoever, then sue her in NY or SF (only places he has a chance to win) court and hire a international collection agency to collect the damage. That is the AMERICAN WAY !!
Now now MOW be kind to us americans, you know we have had tough time lately. Can't we just all get along.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:40 pm on Mar. 17, 2005
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jayh
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fellas,
One important fact that we are forgetting is the fact that the runner who doesn't intend to stay the night as she promised also deprives the honest bargirl who misses the chance to be taken out long time. Let's say the runner takes Hugh, manowar, and one other sucher-for instance, some naive newbie (who actually pays her for the long time because he feels bad about the "
tragedy" that cut their longime short). Each moment after sperm is released, her brother has another horrible accident. She gets her percentage of three barfines and 3,500 based on her deception. Hugh and Manowar pay 1,000 for their "long time cum short time". Meanwhile, the honest short time girls and long time girls and long time girls watch this girl go out and make more money through her ability to break her promises.
What do they and their more honest coworkers learn from this? RUNNING PAYS!!!
Even my way-paying less than short time-can be more profitable than honoring longtime promises, but at least less profitable.
I haven't paid attention to this thread lately, but I would like to address a few comments from the aforementioned punters who have cried "Cheap Charlie!"
I don't consider myself a cheap charlie. I don't like to take girls short time, so I make my choice carefully (btw thanks for the tips Hugh and others). I usually buy a few lady drinks for my choice, and take her out for a bite or a drink elsewhere if she likes. Also, I will stop by a convenience store to pick up food and drinks she likes for the fridge in the room. If the night goes well (over 90 percent of the time) I will add a couple hundred baht tip to the agreed upon price.
Even for the runners, I never really paid them the percentage of long time money for the time they stayed. But I will not pay short time money for a runner. Sometimes these girls are just, as our British and Aussie friends say, "taking a piss" and will abide by the original agreement once they realize you aren't the sucker they had hoped for. Although you may not want them at that point.
The girl is more of an investment for me than many, I guess, so it is a bit of a "hardship" if she runs and I have to repeat the process again.
It was also mentioned that the extra money won't make or break my live but will help the poor girl and her family. What about the poor honest girl who wasn't picked??? Also, many of us who live here in BKK can't afford the same freespending ways. I don't mind spending for good service, but paying 2/3 the cash for much less than 2/3 the time agreed isn't my idea of good service. And honestly, even though I feel a little embarrased to admit it, I feel a little hurt in the infrequent incidences when my choice decides to run 
Something to the effect of "these cheap charlies do as much damage to p4p as overpayers" I beg to differ. I think it is the guys who reward the practice of running with short time rates that cause this practice to flourish even more.
If there were more guys like Dutch around, there would be less runners expecting to be rewarded for coaxing an unwanted "short time" from an unwitting punter.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:25 am on April 5, 2005
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Hugh Jardon
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Jayh,
I agree with some of what you say. When I was in Phuket in January, I was left by myself for almost a week whilst my G/F (non BG) went back to Bangkok as she couldn't take the extra time off work.
Naturally, the temptation to be a good boy bacame too great (as it does).
I went out each night on the razzle, with a different girl the first couple of nights. Then I met a real cutie in a bar the third night and stayed with her for 3 days and nights. She told me that she only wanted to go ST, but I persuaded her to go LT as that is what I like. She spoke reasonably good English and we debated the merits of ST and LT. She argued that if she went ST with 2/3 guys a night, she would make more money than the 1500 bt that I had agreed to pay her. True, but she stayed with me for the 3 days. Why? Because my counter argument held more sway with her. The ST was hit and miss, whereas my LT was guaranteed. I told her that she might have 2/3 guys in a night for each of those three days we were together and not like more than a couple of them. I treated her with tenderness, compassion and respect, as I would a girlfriend and she responded in the same way. So from her perspective, she could rationalise it that for her it was more like making love with a boyfriend instead of f***ing with a punter who she might have found repulsive. She had never gone LT before, but I would like to think that after we had been together 3 days, bowling, shopping, eating at restaurants, swimming, etc, she might have earned less than with several STs, but maybe found the LT with me a much better experience.
You say that other BGs will have learned bad habits from the Runner, but this is the counter argument. Maybe my BG will have told her friends that there are some advantages with LT that they ought to consider. In 4 trips there, I've only had a runner twice and that was probably my fault. The first time on my first trip, I made the mistake of choosing the girl myself based purely on her looks. Much better I found out later to let the girl choose you, provided that she is at least a 7. Those girls are the really keen to please ones. The other one was the Cristin's MP girl in Phuket, displaced from her normal MP work by the Tsunami, who was working as a BG pending its re-opening. She just wasn't used to LT, so we switched to ST, I got another girl LT that night and had a much better time.
As for your concern for the more honest BG who was deprived of the LT session because of the antics of the ST girl, I don't see it really. Every ST girl deprives another BG of the possibility of a LT punt with that customer anyway. The LT afficionado is often back later on to take her instead when the original girl proves to be a runner. Others have even suggested going back to the same bar for the next punt to make that first girl lose face.
But you'll never convince me that that if one has partaken of the girl's services to ST standard that she is not worth paying the ST rate, regardless of what had been agreed. Dutch should have posted his experience in the cheapest shag in LOS category, as it was almost in that class of miserliness.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:16 pm on April 5, 2005
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BigDUSA
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I try and keep it as simple as I can. I discuss price and what I expect from her before I pay the barfine. I tell her my ST rate is 500 and 1K LT. I have a better then 90% success rate at beer bars with 30++ BG. I leave the GO GO for the big spenders. 
Back in my room I have 500 and 1K notes I leave out. If the BG does a runner and it does happen. When she tells me she's leaving, no drama on my part and I smile. I usually get dressed and walk out with her. I hand her the 500 when we are in the lobby. She goes one way and I go the other as I look for the next Ms Right Now.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 1:35 pm on April 5, 2005
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waxhead
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>>Quote: from manowar on 6:10 pm on Mar. 15, 2005
I think what Dutch needs in future is to have an American lawyer write up a "performance" contract based on current prevalent international laws.
Sadly, the contract is based on a illegality, so it will not hold up in court, however, not a bad scheme nonetheless! I think there is a business to be made selling contracts.... sec show, sec show, you want massard? you want contract for LT performance? Yep, let us know whether you ever get into this line of work
This is fascinating to me, because I am not really into the GG scene, the MP scene is quite different with fairly clear boundaries of what is involved, this all sounds like a lot of mystery and hard work!
This is a classic time where a westerner will say, "I know that it is only 500b different, but it is the principle." I'd suggest screw that idea, it is no money at all, why even care? Given her nature, I would think you got lucky NOT having her sleeping near you (which is incidentally why I'd never go LT with a p4p) and having access to lots of your stuff..... a cheaper lesson than half your stuff missing in the morning. You got ST, pay for ST and that's it.
Hugh Jardon has made some dodgy claims, none more dodgy than his name But in this case, I think his last little story, well not little at all, close to war and peace really, makes a ton of sense. The girls that want to be with you are probably willing to negotiate. The girls who want to do runners... well think of it as getting lucky since they didn't want to be with you anyway, and pay them ST as BigDUSA does. Simple, and frees up your time to do more important stuff like sharemarket trading, manufacturing aircraft parts and the like.
BTW I can guess that ai-kwai (stupid buffalo) would have probably been one of the things she said along with ai-laew, ai-heea and various other curses, none nice. So... now you've made some enemies who are not going to forget you.... I do know of one farang guy who actually ripped off a girl and didn't pay, so she arranged for the guy to be severely beaten.... some of these girls are high on drugs and unbalanced - do you really want to be their enemy?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:14 am on April 6, 2005
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