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Arcadius
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power
I think the 'social order campaign' is aimed mainly at Thai youth. Social conservatives exist in Thailand, as they do everywhere, and they obviously have a purchase on the current govt. In the main, I think they're just singing that ever-popular tune 'Young People Today Need More Discipline'. Farang-oriented venues get caught up in the backwash, but I don't think they're being deliberately targeted. As prostitution is illegal in LOS, the govt could close all our places down tomorrow if it really wanted to.
Anyway, this is LOS. Squish the balloon at one end, and it'll just expand somehere else. One unintended consequence of 2am closing was to push late-night P4P right out onto Sukhumvit itself. Far more visible now than it used to be.
If they carry on like this, they'll just cause a huge expansion of underground late-night venues for Thais and foreigners alike - and end up with less 'social order' than before. But that's their problem. Question is - if these pressures continue and cause Thai P4P to metamorphose into something a bit different (which certainly won't be the first time), who's to say that we punters won't prefer it? Change isn't always for the worse.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:26 am on Dec. 25, 2003
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Smegma
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1am closing time wont happen as per the article -at least not in January.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 1:06 pm on Dec. 25, 2003
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ThaidUp
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Arcadius, wholeheartly agree.
It should be the responsibly of the parents to regulate the youth and the bar owners to regulate the underage problem, but in a society where the culture shuns taking responsibility what better scapegoat than the bad entertainment venues. It is a very safe political target.
Now if the bar owners were smart, they would meet with the politicians and address their main concern of letting underage people into their venues, but fat chance that will happen here.
Smegs. Chinese New Year is in Jan this year Jan. 22nd changes happen on Jan. 23rd.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:52 pm on Dec. 25, 2003
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hzink
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Quote: from fastmover on 10:28 pm on Dec. 25, 2003
power24............"The point is that a stand must be taken by tourists...."
Well, in what country do tourists have the right to suggest that they can advise a nation's government on the social order best suited for the citizens of that country?
Exactly - it's nice talk to 'make a stand', but the only way you can do so is to encourage everyone to consume more in previous times, thus making the bars more money in normal times, and making the 1:00am curfew irrelevant.
Personally, I prefer to choices voiced in another reply, and just pick a girl up earlier (smart move anyway), and bang your head off.
Harry
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 2:18 am on Dec. 26, 2003
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power24
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Okay..hzinkso lets say the thai govt go ahead with reducing closing times to 1am. Then the next year maybe another reduction to midnight. Then the next year the bars are told they cant open until 6pm. Then maybe the next step may be go-go dancers with dresses on only. Then maybe the next step may be an alltogether removal of nanaplaza like entertainment venues. To a certain extent the rules of the ball game will just change to get around the changes in closing times but if this move is just one step towards an ultimate goal then it concerns me.
A 'one step at a time' approach by the thai govt would be 'politically' and 'economically' the easiest way for a govt to put slowly close the lid on p4p in thailand. Im not saying that this would certainly happen but the reasons given by the thai govt for earlier closing times do not make sense and so it leaves this idea as a possibility.
Aside from the effect the change in closing times will have on the p4p scene and what time you can pick a girl to bang Im concerned about the effects it will have on ordinary tourism and wonder if the Thai govt has considered these implications.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 5:19 am on Dec. 26, 2003
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Yurune
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I know that if I was Thai I would support the removal of P4P for foreigners.
It's not like it's our/your right or anything is it?
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:36 am on Dec. 26, 2003
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Arcadius
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the reasons given by the thai govt for earlier closing times do not make sense
No, but there's nothing abnormal or especially sinister about that. And it's not just in Thailand that governments do things for indefensible 'reasons'.
They often (in LOS, make that usually) do things to appease this or that interest, further power-brokers' turf battles, keep parts of a coalition on board, etc etc. Then someone has to dream up some sort of justification fit for public consumption. This PR task is often deputed to a committee, with all the absurd results you'd expect.
Why on earth would you need to inconvenience the whole of Thailand just to clamp down on the farang P4P scene? The latter is highly visible, highly localised and blatantly engaged in illegal activity. It's entirely at your mercy already.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:13 am on Dec. 26, 2003
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Vegas
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Ciao Ciao posted:
------------------------------------------------------------------Many Thais, not associated with the p4p industry,are strongly critical of it, and of the negative image it portrays of their country, for which they have a very nationalistic fervor, as much so or more so than any other.
I have talked with Thai women who are livid, that in their perception, farangs and the world press therefore equates all Thai women as easy marks.
Some of them, believe it or not, are even in the tourism industry. When I point out the loss that would bring to tourism, they are resolute that it would be a worthwwhile loss.
------------------------------------------------------------------
This attitude isn't surprising at all. What else would you expect from women who have never been part of the P4P industry. They see girls from the countryside who do not have their "education and training" earning more money than them doing something that these "good" women find immoral and illegal (it is, you know). Keep in mind that the women you are speaking to would look down on these girls even if they worked a "straight" job.
Personally, I think that our BG's could do as well as, if not better than their sraight counterparts if given the proper training. Maybe that is the question that should be asked of these ladies in the tourism industry....what would they suggest to better the lives of those currently in the P4P industry once they eliminate it. They would probably not even understand the question....why should anything be done to help these "lower" class people.
A "worthwhile" loss indeed! Worthwhile to the egos of these people who assume themselves better than others.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:54 pm on Dec. 26, 2003
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CiaoCiao
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Quote: from Vegas on 4:54 am on Dec. 27, 2003
Keep in mind that the women you are speaking to would look down on these girls even if they worked a "straight" job.....what would they suggest to better the lives of those currently in the P4P industry once they eliminate it.
Vegas,
The question was asked as to what the Thai populace thought of the p4p industry. Those that I have talked to neither look down on the girls nor advocate elimination of prostitution, which would be a totally foolish quest - anywhere. They do however have a reasonable concern for the sociological ills that are causing it and attendant to it - and the ill effects therefore on their country and its image.
While there are many throughout Thailand and the entire world who share the moralistic superiority that you describe so well, please do not ascribe it to all.
And especially please do not try to invent what the Thais I talked to had said/would say. Those that I have discussed the p4p and other Thai concerns with, neither look down on those girls nor on the less fortunate who work a "straight" job (though there are certainly Thais who look down on poor of Issan, but no more/nor less than do the class conscious of all countries).
To be more specific about one instance to which I referred, two Thai lady friends ran into a young Issan girl on her first night in BKK, hungry, and headed for a p4p job (not to be a very rewarding one based on her looks, right?).
They bought her dinner, and offered to get her a job in a store or hotel, but she figured she could make more in p4p. Her choice, I wish her well. But my friends were also concerned that their offer was not a suitable economic option.
They and so many Thais are rightfully concerned that the young girls there have so few other options, as concerned as you would be if your daughter or sister had so few other options.
What would they suggest? Well, they tried to do something within their limited power. So what would you suggest? Or does your view of the p4p scene keep you from seeing that there may just be a sociological problem in that country that - without condemning p4p itself - or farangs - certainly needs more attention than political grandstanding or blame laying?
I suspect that we're probably more in agreement, and given misunderstandings of the written word, even more in agreement with reasonably concerned Thais, than not.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 9:51 pm on Dec. 26, 2003
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The Machine
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I have to say that it doesn't really worry me whether the bars close at 1 or 2 for that matter.
Provided I can get a drink and find a lady that is okay.
I do think that the Thais are worried by the perception that Thailand is the biggest brothel in the world and to that extent I believe they would like the farang P4P to fade away.
Economic imperatives will remain however and while there is poverty and very low wage levels there will always be inducement for those at the bottom level to escape the poverty cycle either through prostitution or drugs.
It may well come to pass that the farang sex orientated industry gradually metamorphises into a different creature maybe more along the lines of freelancer establishments which exist in Dubai for example but it will never completely go away while those basic economic imperatives remain.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:38 am on Dec. 27, 2003
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