| |
MarkC
|
Nuke the lot of us. Let God sort us out.
|
Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:35 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
|
|
Broken Leg
|
Quote: from MarkC on 12:29 am on Mar. 9, 2005
Nuke the lot of us. Let God sort us out.
You been watching the Simpsons
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 12:37 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
|
|
manowar
|
China is ruled by an illegitimate, tyrannical communist regime. It has caused deaths of millions of Chinese people in mainland and is now threatening Taiwan because it ( China ) had made a few bucks in the last few years and its dick is getting hard. US should "encourage" democracy in China in any way it can. Taiwan, a democracy, can never be "united" with China, a dictatorship, either with or without force. Except for its nuclear arsenal and a few of its coastal cities, China is still a 3rd world country no matter how you cut it. Call the bluff, instigate democracy and hopefully one day, Taiwan will be united with China on its own free will.
|
Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:50 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
|
|
DaffyDuck
|
Quote: from Hermanolobo on 6:18 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
Too much imagination ? I need to get out more !
Yes.
Quote: from ABC on 6:41 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
"IF" China invades Taiwan, the U.S will puff up it's chest, but no action will be taken. They are spread to thin with the middle east and possibly North Korean on the for front.
Unfortunately, I would have to agree with ABC on this - in th ecase such a thing were to happen, the US will drop Taiwan (a democracy) like a hot potato in order to not anger China (a military dictatorship), because, after all, the US is all about protecting freedom and democracy in the world.
Note, though, how staunch a position we hold against Cuba, a far more threatening nation!
Manowar has the right attitude, but it will never be implemented, as long as the US keeps borrowing trillions of $$$ from China in order to feed wars and living above their means. They are afraid that standing up to China will stem the tide of $$$. Kinda sad, if you think about it.
At the core, though, China *is* a third world country, and it's rapid expansion will hopefully have the desired effect (a middle-class and industrial class coming at odds with the political regime).
The unfortunate thing about Taiwan is that China blew their opportunity with Hong Kong - when Hong Kong was returned to them, they were promised to remain more or less autonomous (which they still are on paper), but quickly the population's will, and freedoms were curbed and restricted (witness the recent demonstrations, and how they have dealt with them). If they had been smart (ha!), they would have let Hong Kong retain a significant impression of freedom, if not even extended HK's freedoms -- and used that carrot as a means to lure Taiwan into rejoining the homeland under a similar agreement. Then, once Taiwan bit the carrot, come down hard (as they are wont to do), as then no one can do anything about it.
Yes, their big advantage is the cheap labor they enjoy in their country, and that is, so far, their only advantage. Economically and technologically, they are not (yet?) very smart -- but their bluff worked, so far. The world bought off on the brochure. We'll see if this is self-regulating, as so many industrial nations.
Dr. von Quack!
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 4:14 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
|
|
Mr Alan
|
Quote: from DaffyDuck on 3:08 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
Unfortunately, I would have to agree with ABC on this - in th ecase such a thing were to happen, the US will drop Taiwan (a democracy) like a hot potato in order to not anger China (a military dictatorship), because, after all, the US is all about protecting freedom and democracy in the world.
Note, though, how staunch a position we hold against Cuba, a far more threatening nation!
Manowar has the right attitude, but it will never be implemented, as long as the US keeps borrowing trillions of $$$ from China in order to feed wars and living above their means. They are afraid that standing up to China will stem the tide of $$$. Kinda sad, if you think about it.
You are seriously confused. The US promotes democracy, but the most important democracy that it wants to defend is the US itself. Since China has nuclear weapons, and the means to deliver them to the US, careful diplomacy is called for regarding Taiwan. But I guess you are just a cowboy on this issue.
China and Taiwan have been arguing for many years. Recent movements in Taiwan to declare formal independence from China is the catalyst for recent Chinese threats. I think most countries in the world (not just the US) would prefer the status quo.
In the long run, the integration of HK and Taiwan into China will hasten the move toward Chinese democracy and toward a market economy. That is in the best interests of democracy and freedom.
But if things do get out of control, China depends more on the US than the other way around. If the US stopped all imported goods from China (maybe if China invaded Taiwan), the Chinese economy would collapse and millions would starve to death, sort of like North Korea. The manufacturing burden could easily be replaced by other nations, or even the US itself. The cost of many goods would be somewhat higher, but it would provide a lot more US jobs as production was moved back home.
The left wing did not complain about US policy towards Cuba during the Clinton administration, which had the same US policy toward Cuba that has existed since John F Kennedy was president, and still exists today. Your whining is simply partisan George W Bush bashing.
Cuba is still one the worst human rights offenders on the planet (especially on a per capita basis), which was described in a recent TV show on Frontline (PBS). Considering that the US has borne the brunt of these human rights abuses in the form of millions of political refugees over the last 40 years, and the legacy of the Cuban Nuclear Missile crisis, the US concern about Cuba is more than justified.
|
Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 4:57 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
|
|
youngexpat
|
the balance of power is currently in china's hands. Given the extreme level of china's foreign reserve holdings they are capable of bankrupting the US if they so choose. It would appear to me that china has returned to its pre opium war state where the rest of the world wants what china produces and has little to offer in return. Hence the opium trading to balance out massive trading deficits on the part of the britsh etc.
The US might be considered a third world country as well if you removed the coastal states
Furthermore noone has any business telling the chinese how to run their country the transition that has taken place in the last 20 years while under the same leadership is incredible.
democracy this democracy that last time I checked benevolent dictatorship was still the most effective form of government. Singapore anyone?
oh oh but what about freedom? I sure as shit don't enjoy the same level here in the states as I do pretty much anywher else in the world. Last week I got shit on by US customs for trying to be an entrepeneur and importing goods from thailand. The opened up my crates and destroyed some of my goods with virtually no recourse. yeah I can write a letter because that will do me a whole f***ing world of good.
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:00 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
|
|
black cats
|
Quote: from Mr Alan on 8:51 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
But if things do get out of control, China depends more on the US than the other way around. If the US stopped all imported goods from China (maybe if China invaded Taiwan), the Chinese economy would collapse and millions would starve to death, sort of like North Korea. The manufacturing burden could easily be replaced by other nations, or even the US itself. The cost of many goods would be somewhat higher, but it would provide a lot more US jobs as production was moved back home.
Gotta disagree with you Mr Alan. The US economy is very much dependent on imported goods made with cheap labor. Almost any product you buy in the States today is made in China. Even Japanese brands are manufactured there (the sun is setting on Japan).
Even at minimum wage there would be an emormous spike in the costs of every conceivable good Americans consume and our economy would be f***ed.
That's why Clinton developed and Bush finalized Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China. Basically China no longer has to reapply for trade priveleges with the US annually, they have a right to trade with us under Federal law. If that's not a sign that we're nervous about being locked out of the Chinese labor market I don't know what is. More info here: http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/library/downloads/keyWorkplaceDocuments/CRS/CRSChinaUSTrade3Oct03.pdf
The N. Korea analogy is apples and oranges. The US likes apples and N. Korea is an orange. We've never had an economic relationship (addiction?) with N. Korea and they have nothing to withhold from us.
We can put a dent in the Chinese economic tank by throwing ourselves under it, but it would drive on to other customers. They're really the only relevant game in town for producing the elctronic toys the world thinks it would come to a grinding halt without.
The US is a large piece of the global pie it would take to choke the Chinese dragon, but alone it would just be eaten and enjoyed. Given this President's delusions of US prominence and capability, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. If we tip toed over the Hainan incident and met their demands for an apology, we ain't gonna do shit for a former valuable trade partner. ABC is right. Who's gonna believe we'll intervene successfully when we're unable to tackle Iraq?
The way to sway China, if there is one, would be to buy even more from them, to the point where we essentially have a controlling interest in their economy. In particular, whatever the top Communists own we should buy so we can pay them to develop policies we like.
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:26 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
|
|
DaffyDuck
|
Quote: from Mr Alan on 4:51 am on Mar. 9, 2005
Your whining is simply partisan George W Bush bashing.
This is amusing since I am more commonly accused of being a Bush apologist (as I actually don't disagree with much of the policies) - but I guess if I disagree with you, I must be doing 'Bush bashing'. Funny, really.
On a more serious note, I am well aware of the rather complex web of politics that surrounds the China issues, but you are also overly simplifying the 'threat' to China losing the US economy could pose - China is effectively abe to sustain itself economically, even if all external economic ties were severed. Yes, the large quantities of $$$ streaming in from the US and the rest of the world help them to position themselves better as a world economy, but they would be doing just fine. "the Chinese economy would collapse and millions would starve to death" is a nice piece of FUD, but completely devoid of any research into economic facts. China, unlike the failure that is North Korea, does not depend on foreign donations to sustain itself - it has not needed those for thousands of years, and it would not need so in the future.
Quote: from Mr Alan on 4:51 am on Mar. 9, 2005
Cuba is still one the worst human rights offenders on the planet (especially on a per capita basis), which was described in a recent TV show on Frontline (PBS). Considering that the US has borne the brunt of these human rights abuses in the form of millions of political refugees over the last 40 years, and the legacy of the Cuban Nuclear Missile crisis, the US concern about Cuba is more than justified.
Yawn - with the loss of the Soviet Union, the concerns that the Cuban Missile Crisis brought about are a thing of the past (it's unlikely that Russia will want to place missiles in Cuba), and regarding the human rights records - we are doing splendid trade with plenty of other countries that have a shoddy to terrible human rights record. Doesn't apparently stop us --- and likewise as your argument that exposing more of China to democracy and freedoms, it seems you somehow don't feel the same applies to Cuba.
Would you not think that if Cuba were overrun by US investors and tourists, propping up their economy and infusing a middle class with more money, it would bring about a fall of Cuban Communist more rapidly than isolating it?
Yes, I do agree that Taiwan's democracy, freedoms, and economy/industry could serve as an effecive 'democracy virus' to China, but as I pointed out, that opportunity was missed in the way China screwed up with Hong Kong.
As it stands, I do not blame Taiwan for wanting independence, but if this precipitates a Chinese invasion, I'm afraid that the earlier analysis stands - the US will protest, file diplomatic papers, and do, essentially, nothing.
Dr. von Quack!
|
Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:27 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
|
|
manowar
|
Quote: from youngexpat on 12:54 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
the balance of power is currently in china's hands. Given the extreme level of china's foreign reserve holdings they are capable of bankrupting the US if they so choose. It would appear to me that china has returned to its pre opium war state where the rest of the world wants what china produces and has little to offer in return. Hence the opium trading to balance out massive trading deficits on the part of the britsh etc.
The US might be considered a third world country as well if you removed the coastal states
Furthermore noone has any business telling the chinese how to run their country the transition that has taken place in the last 20 years while under the same leadership is incredible.
democracy this democracy that last time I checked benevolent dictatorship was still the most effective form of government. Singapore anyone?
oh oh but what about freedom? I sure as shit don't enjoy the same level here in the states as I do pretty much anywher else in the world. Last week I got shit on by US customs for trying to be an entrepeneur and importing goods from thailand. The opened up my crates and destroyed some of my goods with virtually no recourse. yeah I can write a letter because that will do me a whole f***ing world of good.
Bottom line : Chinese Communists in China is an illegitimate regime because no one ( not a single person ) had actually ever given them the right ( by vote) to rule. They do not have the authority to speak for even one single Chinese person in mainland, let alone the 20+ millions Taiwanese people in Taiwan. It's a joke !
|
Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 6:32 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
|
|
black cats
|
Daffy Duck,
Nice response, you either read fast and stole my ideas or great minds just think alike. 555! I think it's the latter.
To dumb this down a lot: The US would lose far more going against China than it would gain supporting Taiwan. So that's why we'll essentially do nothing about this.
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:35 pm on Mar. 8, 2005
|
|
| |
|
