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hzink
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Quote: from Vancouver Jay on 12:44 pm on April 26, 2004
F*ckwit...
It's so nice when people are polite, isn't it.
Anyway, while ignoring you completely in the future, I think the most interesting and useful contribution, aside from all of our speculation, is Bok Hah's message, mentioning personal contact with that guy, and explaining that one of the kids would have been his son.
This condition, if true, would change the situation dramatically - it's unfortunate that the media is good about reporting buzzwords, but very bad in following up on such reports. If his son, by deportation to Burma, would indeed be condemned to death, it would make the entire case a tragic mistake.
On the other hand, if he has been involved in AIDS charities, and one of the kids was his adopted son, would the RTP be aware of that, and would he not at least have documents to back this up? Would the police not at least try to sort this out, before departing the kids? If they planned to prosecute, would deporting the witnesses not be counter-productive?
The case looks fishy no matter which side you look at it.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:44 am on April 26, 2004
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Hermanolobo
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Quote: from jaybee on 1:17 am on April 25, 2004
"Many foreigners are under suspicion. They put detailed sex information on Internet websites and bring others to have illegal sex in our country. They are being investigated and will be arrested," said Chanvut.
From a paranoid's point of view how much does anybody think the various forums are really monitored. Is it worthwhile with all these aliases about ?
Is Thai immigration gonna interview someone called 'Mickey Mouse' ??
Your paranoid Brother Wolf
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 2:16 am on April 26, 2004
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Arcadius
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Kev29ie
Just to get our facts straight, European AoCs as at 1997 were as follows:
17: Ireland
16: UK, Belgium, Switzerland, Norway, Finland, Portugal
15: France, Sweden, Denmark, Greece
14: Germany, Italy, Austria, Hungary, Iceland
12: Spain, Netherlands, Malta
A few countries raise the AoC significantly in cases where the sexual partner is in a position of trust or responsibility (personally, I think there's a very good case for this). Very few countries still have AoC laws which discriminate between straight and gay sex. In a large majority of European countries, sex with 16yo & even younger boys is perfectly kosher so far as the law is concerned. Sex with minors (so long as they're at or above the AoC) is also perfectly kosher.
The normal AoC in Thailand is 15. It only rises for P4P purposes.
Do I think that it is 'inappropriate' for a 40yo to have sex with a 16yo? In general, I would say it probably is, but no doubt there are exceptions (hard & fast rules in this department are silly). Is it inappropriate for a 38yo to have sex with an 18yo? Where does this stop? In any event, this is a private moral issue so far as the law is concerned. Behaving inappropriately, or even badly, does not make you a criminal - let alone a lynchable monster.
16yos are adolescents, in transition from childhood to adulthood. So far as nature is concerned, they have been ready for sex since puberty, and if they are boys, they probably think about bugger all else. Whatever you think about the ethics of having sex with a boy (or girl) this age, it certainly isn't paedophilia.
Still those are all generalities. So far as this particular case is concerned, all the conflicting innuendo and anonymous testimony make it unsafe to draw any conclusions at all. It seems to be a fact that this guy hasn't been charged, let alone convicted, of sex with anyone.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:21 am on April 26, 2004
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Smegma
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For the sake of accuracy, from the info gathered from oher sources, the guy has only been charged with harboring illegal immigrants. There are no charges regarding sex with minors.
The interesting thing here is to see if the guy will be deported for an offense for which from what I know there is no prison term for Thai citizens -having illegals alliens at home. BTW, it seems his status of stay -visa in Thailand is legal.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 8:06 am on April 26, 2004
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hzink
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Interesting, Smegma, so what actually is the point of this whole police action, then? From the more we get from this, it seems someone had it out for this guy, and was out to get him in trouble.
Harboring illegal immigrants is not a crime? Then what are they going to get him on, or deport him on?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:10 am on April 26, 2004
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kev29ie
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Quote: from Arcadius on 9:21 am on Mar. 28, 2004
Kev29ie
Just to get our facts straight, European AoCs as at 1997 were as follows:
17: Ireland
16: UK, Belgium, Switzerland, Norway, Finland, Portugal
15: France, Sweden, Denmark, Greece
14: Germany, Italy, Austria, Hungary, Iceland
12: Spain, Netherlands, Malta
This is pretty much my point. Your earlier post stated that usually in Europe, it is 14 or lower, in reality in Most of Europe it is 15 or higher.
In the Netherlands Antilles it is now 17 and in Spain 13. IN effect in the Netherlands, it varies from 12 to 16, depending on the age of the other party. In other words, it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a 12 year old (and rightly so) but not illegal for two minors to have sex. Equally in Malta it varies between 12 and 18, depending on circumstances, In Greece between 15 and 17, Germany 14 and 16.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm
I agree with you that there are situations where morally questionable does not corrolate with criminal activity, nor do I personally see what happened as criminal. Thai law is skewed to view that when a farang is with a Thai girl (and I imagine they will make the same arguement for with a thai guy (or lb) ) that a P4P scenario is assumed.
I dont agree with this, but that is neither here nor there. The pervailing wisdom (if it is not a contradiction in terms) of this forum is that if you have any question about the age your lady of negotiable affection, then the best course of action is to walk away, and choose another. This is, without doubt, the best policy to adopt (from both a moral and self preservation stance). Are there many here who would have much sympathy if a bro was deported for knowingly having sex with a 16 year old?
To my mind whether it is immoral or illegal is not really the point, the point is that this guy will most probably be deported, and the media will state (right or wrong) that a factor in his deportation was suspicion of illicit sexual behaviour with minors. Once that is out, no-one will care what the circumstances are, or what the real story is. The guy is fuc*ed.
As to whether a post adolesent is ready for sex depends as much on their mental state as their biological state, and, to my mind, child abuse is to a large degree an abuse of power against a weaker individual. It is too simplistic for me to draw lines in the sand around mere age issues. (and before I get flamed this does not mean that a mature 14 year old is fair game in my mind) rather I mean that I would not have an issue with a large age disparity (assuming legality) if there is relative equal power between both parties.
I agree with most of what you are saying and totally agree that there are exceptions to most generalisation. (how about that for a generalisation  )
There are more women in Bangkok who are between the ages of 20 to 25, who fit very firmly into my 'I would go with category', who will equally go with me, than I could ever get around to. Why then go after those younger than that, and leave yourself open to all sorts of nasty things.
Assuming that the stories we have heard about this guy being his adopted son are true, then he has been plain unlucky, and terribly scapegoated. If they are not he has been terribly stupid, possibly criminal, and to my mind immoral. Either way, he is entirely f_cked.
(and all this moralising from a guy who goes on regular p4p spree's without his wifes knowledge, whilst knowing that if he got busted he will cause a huge degree of hurt and turmoil  )
Another 2 baht worth (although finding someone to pay it might be tough)
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:19 am on April 26, 2004
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Smegma
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hzink, I suggest reading that thread in the other forum -the link is in the first page of this thread.
In summary, some people in that other forum say that he may have been a target (same as another guy that was detained also a couple of weeks earlier), for being too vocal in some public forums and too openly about his support of some hilltribes people. Thais do not like having farangs come here and criticize them in a very open way.
But all kind of mixed info there. Most likely the true is somewhere in the middle.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:17 pm on April 26, 2004
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CiaoCiao
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Quote: from hzink on 8:36 pm on April 25, 2004... So, do you commonly hang out with two 16-year old boys while having pornographic material about?
Quote: from Vancouver Jay on 12:44 pm on April 26, 2004...F*ckwit...
hzinc,
Despite the ravings of VJ your point is well made.
To take it further, based on reports by many others:
* He is legally charged with harboring illegal immigrants,
* Pornographic materials were confiscated from the home where he housed the immigrants,
* Those illegal immigrants, if above the age of consent, are a source of concern, given other allegations, ie.:
* He has been accused by neighbors of being involved in other paedophilic activities in Chiang Mai,
* His son is said to be adopted, whether legally or not,
* Many of his Chaing Mai business men/neighbors have written even before this that he has pissed off a lot of people there for his financial dealings,
* His AIDS fund raising had come under criticism for being a personal funding scam,
* He is said by neighbors to have faked his death,
* He is said by neighbors to use aliases in his business dealings,
* There are reports that he has a prior paedophile record in Australia,
* That he is wanted by the Australian government for evading some sort of 'fine',
* He is engaged in activities regarding knowingly sensitive political issues (Hill Tribes) in a country in which he is only a guest, in open defiance of the government.
Now I will be the first to say that the above is circumstantial, and most is even hearsay, and will be the first to say that he is innocent in a court of law until proven guilty.
On the other hand, outside a court of law, based on an overwhelming amount of such 'hearsay', he would definitely not be welcome in my home, and would certainly not be a drinking buddy.
But guilty or innocent, with all this sh*t going on around him, in as restrictive a country like Thailand, and a foreigner to boot, I believe he should be sentenced at least for sheer stupidity.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:22 pm on April 26, 2004
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Arcadius
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Kev29ie
In some countries, a higher age of consent kicks in if the younger party subsequently makes a complaint. I am very dubious about this, as I think it is a recipe for entrapment and blackmail by unscrupulous young people or their parents/controllers.
If you were going to make a rational case for the higher P4P-related AoC in LOS, it would run something like this: 'The sexual freedom of young people should not be unreasonably restricted, but it leaves them wide open to commercial exploitation if they are allowed to prostitute themselves while still minors. The only way to police this effectively is to come down like a ton of bricks on the demand side of the equation.' I don't believe that's how it really works, but if it did, I'd have quite a lot of sympathy with it.
At any event, I agree that a guy who does this knowingly is a complete fool, but I'm not going to join the 'castration is too good for him' brigade unless the particular circumstances warrant it. With two young daughters of my own, I don't view genuine paedophilia in any kindly light at all.
Once that is out [suspicion of sex with minors], no-one will care what the circumstances are, or what the real story is. The guy is fuc*ed.
Yes, but that's precisely what I object to. 'Accusation or insinuation = guilt' runs flatly counter to all our usual notions of justice, and it's a disgrace. Since the mid-1980s, the paedophilia scare has acquired many overtones of the Salem witch-hunts, and some truly terrifying miscarriages of justice have resulted. The mob in full cry is an ugly sight. Worse, this mass hysteria can be cynically exploited by the powerful to strip people of their normal rights - which may be what has happened here (we just don't know). I've covered some of these cases in the past and found them deeply disturbing; the media's role often downright contemptible. I do think it's high time public opinion in this area made an effort to pull itself together.
I would not have an issue with a large age disparity (assuming legality) if there is relative equal power between both parties
I think we're actually of one mind about this. Personally, I just detest the use of sex as a power play, and I think guys who deliberately exploit the psychologically or emotionally vulnerable to get their jollies are cvnts. However, the victims of these things can be (and often are) well into adulthood by any standard, and the age disparity may be negligible.
Re avoiding the young 'uns, I generally favour mid to late 20s myself because the sex is usually a whole lot better. But judging the real age of TGs is a very inexact science (in both directions), and you can sometimes be miles out. Last year, I was worried that a BG who told me she was 22 might be underage, but she turned out to be 29! It shook me a bit to have been as wrong as all that.
As a test, pay some attention to the schoolgirls next time you're in BKK. You'll probably think that a few of them could pass with ease in a GG if they were suitably (un) dressed and made up, but what age are they really? 15? 16? It's frightening stuff - I think any of us could get caught (and pretty well destroyed) by this if we were unlucky enough or if enemies set us up. At any event, I do get a sense of "there but for the grace of God go I" in some of these cases.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 5:23 pm on April 26, 2004
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Chompoo
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David Leonard Arthur, a 48-year-old Australian businessman, was arrested and charged with obscenity. The police searched a house in Chiang Mai's Sarapee districts and found Arthur with two Burmese boys aged 16, two sex toys and many pornographic CDs.
Lock the guy up and throw away the key!
First, how dare he take advantage of such innocent young children. 16 year old boys are totally incapable of making their own decisions. Without this man's evil influence I'm sure these boys would have been at home secure with their families, studying hard and making a career for themselves as engineers or accountants.
Second, he's a homosexual. Clearly a deviant and a danger to upstanding people everywhere.
Third, the old man is almost 50! That is way too old to still be thinking about sex, especially with anyone young and attractive. Dirty old perverts like him should stick to inserting their limp penises into the folds of nasty overweight frumps. Just the image of some old guy holding hands with someone under 30 makes me want to puke.
Fourth, Burmese boys? What, Thai boys aren't good enough for buggery any more? Yet again the farang are ruining the Thai economy with their globalization policies.
Fifth, pornography is the devil's work. Not only is it bad enough that the man polluted his own mind with such trash, but he forced it upon innocent children. Lord knows the last thing 16 year old boys want to have to see is pictures of naked people.
Sixth, and no doubt most important is the possession of the contraband dildos. There is a very good reason why selling sex toys is illegal in Thailand. I can't go into the details here, but believe me the evidence is very convincing.
Burn in hell Mr. David Leonard Arthur!
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:32 pm on April 26, 2004
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