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Mr Alan
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Many of you have claimed I am wrong, so let me clear things up.
The 707 (or its very close kin) was originally built in 1954 as military aircraft and later converted over for commercial airline use in use in 1957. This is the ONLY time that a Boeing plane built for military use with government funds was used as a commercial airliner (with some slight modifications).
The 727 replaced the 707 in 1963, some 40 years ago. The 707 production (for military use) continued until early 1990's, but was not purchased by commercial airlines much after the 727 came out. So it is correct to say that the last time the US government directly funded the design a commercial jetliner was over 45 years ago.
Although many military organizations around the world use Boeing (and Airbus) passenger planes for military purposes, these other planes were not originally built as military planes with government funds. Only the Boeing 707 fits that category. Of course ALL Airbus planes are built with direct government money, so even that is not true.
Yes, Boeing has done government contracts for military planes that amounted to $23 billion over the years. This was not for producing commercial aircraft, it was for military projects. Are you trying to tell me that EU firms working on the Airbus have never received military contracts from their government? I don't think so, since that would be a lie. In fact, Rolls Royce (the jet engine maker) has received many US and EU government and military contracts over the years. The British Rolls Royce engines were used in the original 707 and many US commercial airliners after that.
The tax breaks given by Washington State (actually they were probably city or country tax breaks) are insignificant and available to ANY company (including foreign companies) who want to locate their facilities in a particular US city. These are temporary tax breaks for a specified amount of time, and are only partial tax breaks. The reason they are given is that they bring great economic (and other tax revenue) to the new location.
I doubt the Washington State tax breaks are still in effect. Almost all US states/cities give such tax breaks for the first few years of operation to relocate plants in their state. Honda, Toyota, BMW, etc have received these same tax breaks (which are relatively small) when they first set up a manufacturing plant in a particular state. Wal-Mart (and other stores) usually receive tax breaks every time they open a new store. These are only partial real estate tax breaks, and have nothing to do with the federal government, and are open to all companies (including EU companies) who bring new jobs (or sales tax revenue) to a US city.
The direct financing by the EU of a private commercial company and the extortion they use to sell the plane, is a disgrace to free trade. But who ever said the EU believes in free trade?
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:06 am on Jan. 22, 2005
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MarkC
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Whatever.
I assume you're a US citizen. How dare you talk about free trade... (and I'm not going to argue about this anymore, if you don't know how the US has abused the term 'free trade' I really, really can't be bothered to educate you on the subject -- ask a Mexican or an educated Bostonian. And you obviously don't know anything about war loans/reparations (WWI+II) and how they f***ed Europe, caused the depression, led to WWII, were used after WWII for 'anti-communist' purposes, etc, etc, etc, and I expect you know nothing of...oh what's the point?).
And WTF has any of this got to do with the LOS?
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 10:31 am on Jan. 22, 2005
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Mr Alan
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The US caused WWII? I thought it was Adolph Hitler and Japanese imperialism in China, Korea, etc that caused WWII.
You are one sick puppy.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:10 am on Jan. 22, 2005
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griffin
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well it was this austrian guy adolph h. who caused ww2. nevertheless he got elected because he promised revenge for the cripling repatriation payments put on germany and others after ww1.
sounds like the question who was earlier there, the hen or the egg?
also it amuses me the the US always cries foul if somebody is playing after the same rules as the US does. albeit these rules seem to be fine as long as they are in the interest of the US!
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 11:29 am on Jan. 22, 2005
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sanook269
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Mr. Alan, with all due respect, PLEASE go to the Boeing web site and read the history of these airplanes.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 12:13 pm on Jan. 22, 2005
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oldarmy
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Quote: from TomLove on 12:14 pm on Jan. 22, 2005
Since when is Norway EU member?
The EU wants Norway to join, but Norway prefers to be independant, being one of the richest nations in the world (oil!)
If Norway is so rich, how come they charge so much for alcohol? The taxation on this is what makes the country so rich.
Griffin said, "also it amuses me the the US always cries foul if somebody is playing after the same rules as the US does. albeit these rules seem to be fine as long as they are in the interest of the US!"
I cry foul on your accusations of us crying foul. Now, who wants to help pay America back for some of those war reparations by buying me a beer on my next trip?
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:29 pm on Jan. 22, 2005
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Smegma
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Quote: from Mr Alan on 10:00 pm on Jan. 22, 2005
The 707 (or its very close kin) was originally built in 1954 as military aircraft and later converted over for commercial airline use in use in 1957.
This is the same as saying that the 777 replaced the 727.
WTF are you talking about? The 707 and the 727 are very different airplanes. One didn't replace the other. They were both being built at the same time (at least in the 60s). One is a four engine transatlantic plane while the other is a three engine shorter distance plane. Now, you could say that the 737 took over the 727. But that is another matter. But if you want to know why, the initial reason (at the time when the 737 started to take more orders), it is because the 737 could be operated with one less pilot in the cabin (2 versus 3), thus reducing cost. Before the 737 became the best seller airplane it became, the 727 was for a while in the 70s the best seller commercial airplane.
You seem to be changing your point trying to make sense, but the more you do, the more wrong (or is it wronger?) you are.
Alan, better stick to the law books because in aviation matters you suck. Where is Brotherwolf to come lecture us all when we need him?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:33 pm on Jan. 22, 2005
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Mr Alan
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Quote: from Smegma on 11:27 am on Jan. 22, 2005
WTF are you talking about? The 707 and the 727 are very different airplanes. One didn't replace the other. They were both being built at the same time (at least in the 60s).
I glad you agree with me. The 707 and 727 are very different planes (I never said they were the same). Very few commercial airlines purchased new 707's after the 727 was introduced, even if there was some overlap for a few years.
So that fact that the US government paid for the 707 development, has little affect on whether the US unfairly subsidizes Boeing today. Certainly Lockheed and McDonald Douglas never received any direct US aid to their commercial airline operations just because the Boeing 707 was originally a military plane (the name of the military plane was the 367-80).
Regarding my facts, here is were you can the history of each plane here (or many other websites) :
http://www.airliners.net/info/
BTW, the title of this thread is wrong. It should be “Extortion and Aid.” Blackmail is when you threaten to reveal a dark secret unless they comply with your demands.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:58 pm on Jan. 22, 2005
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Smegma
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Backpedalling Alan?
Quote: from Mr Alan on 10:00 pm on Jan. 22, 2005
The 727 replaced the 707 in 1963, some 40 years ago.
You did say that the 727 replaced the 707. The 727 could hardly have replaced the 707. They served very different markets.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 1:17 pm on Jan. 22, 2005
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Mr Alan
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No, I am not backpedaling. The 727 first entered service in 1964. Yes there was some overlap of the 707 and 727 during the 1960's.
For long haul flights the 747 (again, vastly different than the 707) was introduced on July 25 1966. First flight occurred on February 9 1969, and certification was awarded on December 30 that year. That made the long haul 707 obsolete.
Most of the early Boeing jets had British Rolls Royce engines as the only power plant, and the Rolls Royce engines remain an option on all Boeing jets today. So by that measure, the EU received US “subsidies” also.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:32 pm on Jan. 22, 2005
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