| |
S M E G M A
|
Quote: from Mr Alan on 3:26 pm on May 8, 2010
1. What about Taiwan? Same ethic background and culture as PRC.
Yes, good example. Taiwan (more exactly, the Republic of China - ROC) would also not have developed so fast under democracy.
The ROC's explosive growth took place mostly during the the 60s, 70s, and 80s under martial law and governed by a single party, the KMT, that forbid the creation of new parties.
The ROC was ruled during the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s by the same person: Chiang Kai-shek. Finally he died (in 1975) and it was considered it would look bad having a dead person rule the country, so he was replaced for the remainder of the term by the Vice-president. When the presidential term ended, the dead man's son became president, once again until his death (1988).
It wasn't until 1986 when new parties were allowed. And in 1987 martial law was suspended and new press was allowed.
Finally in 1996 the first presidential election with universal adult suffrage took place.
Very similar to Thailand, the ROC''s democracy is not yet of drinking age. With democracy it could have turned like Venezuela, a rich country with a majority of poor people (that will remain poor), that is happily enjoying a nice democracy since the 1950s; the kind that allows undemocratic guys like Chavez to get elected (during that 50 year period there have been 2 - 3 coup attempts, but all failed).
|
Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:34 am on May 8, 2010
|
|
haam sup
|
There is an astounding confusion here between DEMOCRACY and CAPITALISM. There is NO democracy in PRC. There is, however, increasing capitalism, although not of the laissez-faire variety.
Smegma's point should not be overlooked; it parallels mine about Singapore. The amazing successes of Taiwan (and Singapore, and others) in the world CAPITALIST market had nothing to do with democracy, and occurred when democracy had no foothold. Even now, what you call democracy bears no resemblance to what is practiced in either of the above mentioned countries.
If he knows something, Adventure Guy should educate us all as to the reasons for Abhisit's offer to hold elections in November (inferring that he will dissolve Parliament in September).
Meanwhile, his lack of understanding of the parliamentary process leads him to the false conclusion that Abhisit's primacy is illegitimate. Again, trying to press upon the brow of the Thai the crown of thorns that is Western democracy. (Sorry, Bill, I was just paraphrasing!)
In reading that last paragraph, one might conclude that I am anti-democracy. Quite the contrary: it's just not for beginners.
hs
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 12:17 pm on May 8, 2010
|
|
S M E G M A
|
Quote: from haam sup on 12:17 am on May 9, 2010
In reading that last paragraph, one might conclude that I am anti-democracy. Quite the contrary: it's just not for beginners.
I do prefer a country ruled by a "good dictator" that really cares about the country (e.g. Lee Kwan Yew), than one with a democracy that keeps the country stagnating (too many to name a couple - take your pick) or going back. Argentina is a good example of the latter; it has the distinction of being the only country, in modern times, that having once been "first world" (it was a G-8 country - when the term didn't even exist- at the beginning of the XX century) went back and now is "third world.
Only with a good developed capitalism system already in place, and a well educated population, can you start toying with the idea of democracy.
|
Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:32 pm on May 8, 2010
|
|
haam sup
|
Quote: from S M E G M A on 12:32 am on May 9, 2010
Only with a good developed capitalism system already in place, and a well educated population, can you start toying with the idea of democracy.
It's interesting that Thailand and the US are headed in opposite directions: when the USA was born, a relatively educated bunch of people envisioned democracy as the highest ideal. Since then, especially in the last 40 years, the US populace has become LESS educated, and democracy is deteriorating (think US Congress). Thailand's masses are poorly educated, and democracy is not even understood by most; still they have no where to go but up, so democracy may well contend for the best solution, but only at some point way in the future. Education needs to happen first...
hs
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 3:00 pm on May 8, 2010
|
|
Oz
|
Hey, there is a lot to be said for a benevolent Dictatorship! Stressing the word benevolent of course!
|
Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 6:37 pm on May 8, 2010
|
|
Valetta
|
Ok.Name a benevolent dictator who actually ruled for the benefit of the country as a whole(that is the majority) as distinct from his family,friends,cronies,class,or political party.
China suffers from widespread corruption that almost entirely benefits the ruling Communist party.Citizens are deprived of their land and homes,with only minimal compensation,by Communist Party officials who then, either directly or indirectly, take the lion`s share of any development profits.
Any development project in China does not get approval without some kind of kickback to Party officials.
Any Chinese who challenges either this corruption,or the absolute control of the Party,is arrested,convicted of anti state activities,and imprisoned for a lengthy term.
There are now a lot of very wealthy Chinese entrepreneurs who are overwhelmingly Party officials,or their family,or persons who owe their success to Party patronage.The great majority of the population are still very poor,albeit somewhat better off.
It is far from obvious that a more democratic,and liberal,regime could not have done as well,or better,without the restrictions on speech,and liberty.
Those who advocate the superiority of a benevolent dictatorship do so because of their core belief that the majority are inferior to the more educated minority, of whom they are usually members.
The result of any benevolent dictatorship that is established is that it benefits the more educated,or wealthy,or politically dominant minority,and resists any reforms which might produce a better educated majority which might challenge the "benevolent dictatorship".
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:00 pm on May 8, 2010
|
|
DaffyDuck
|
Quote: from S M E G M A on 12:32 am on May 9, 2010
Only with a good developed capitalism system already in place, and a well educated population, can you start toying with the idea of democracy.
Once in a while, he hits a home run.
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:19 am on May 9, 2010
|
|
haam sup
|
Quote: from Valetta on 11:00 am on May 9, 2010
Ok.Name a benevolent dictator who actually ruled for the benefit of the country as a whole(that is the majority) as distinct from his family,friends,cronies,class,or political party.
...
It is far from obvious that a more democratic,and liberal,regime could not have done as well,or better,without the restrictions on speech,and liberty.
Those who advocate the superiority of a benevolent dictatorship do so because of their core belief that the majority are inferior to the more educated minority, of whom they are usually members.
The result of any benevolent dictatorship that is established is that it benefits the more educated,or wealthy,or politically dominant minority,and resists any reforms which might produce a better educated majority which might challenge the "benevolent dictatorship".
Exactly.
The reason *I* don't prefer a benevolent dictatorship to a democracy is the the corollary that "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely..."
The real point is that democracy must spring from the hearts of the dissatisfied/oppressed people, and be established by them. Pressed upon them from the outside, they may accede, but they will never LIVE it. As much as I love my country, or at least what it was, it needs to mind it's own store/business, instead of telling everyone else how to run theirs.
I hardly think that there is ANY democratic spirit in the Red, or Yellow, shirt movements. They may play to the foreign press, but, in reality, they just want to have their turn at the trough, or maintain it, respectively.
A great example of a quasi-democratic country, well influenced by the US, would be the Philippines. (Surprised no one has yet mentioned it.) Arguably the most demonstrably corrupt system in the region, yet fully compliant to the US system, with a bicameral legislature, a nice judicial branch, and a succession of corrupt executives, dominated by a few families. Even the Marcoses are back among the frontrunners, with Imelda, and her shoes, running for Congress!
They never learn.
hs
|
Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:32 pm on May 9, 2010
|
|
Buttman 007
|
What is your definition of a well developed capitalist system? And/or can you provide an example of one in the modern world?
|
Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 2:04 pm on May 9, 2010
|
|
Kaymanx
|
Quote: from haam sup on 12:17 am on May 9, 2010
it's just not for beginners.
What the fervent champions of democracy need to consider is that every country has its own way of doing things, of running its affairs. Should democracy be held hostage by a set of countries, acting as "controllers," who have their own definition of democracy and then shove it down the throats of other countries who have their own view, their own set of realities, their own traditions and their own pace of doing things ? In other words, is democracy copyrighted?
The real issue to worry about --- I mean worry about -- is less to do with what form of governance each country practices than with whether their people are happy and free. Now freedom has various limits. The pornographic industry is a stark example of this. The west, which has pioneered modern day pornography (am I going to set off a howl of protest with that claim ?) actually has a legal industry in this sector with full fledged companies operating freely. Employees are fully protected under common industry law.
The east, on the other hand (with the probable exception of Japan), completely outlaws porn. This is just one example. With several such limitations in their lives, several eastern world nations are functioning fairly happily as democracies, although the "more free" citizens in those states, like the rest of the western world regard the sanctions on porn as an infringement of their individual rights. But these are flea bites in the larger picture.
I would ask, are people free and happy ? One might ask what is a reliable index of happiness ? A basic criterion of happiness would be, are the people free to do whatever they please ? Does any authority stop you from practicing any religion you want ? Does the government stop you from, or restrict your freedom of, doing business ? Is life and property and commerce well protected by civil law ? Is thought and imagination, and their expression, free ? Are literature and the arts free ? Is education available to all ? Is finance available to the less privileged through state sponsored programmes?
Each country is at a different stage on the curve. However, if the ideals are being pursued by the state, I would reckon the people are living in a progressive country. I see Thailand pretty well up, warts and all, like several other "partially democratised" countries in the region. Just let them do it their own way, at their own pace.
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:58 pm on May 9, 2010
|
|
| |
|
