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juniper
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Quote: from manowar on 9:42 am on Mar. 10, 2005
BTW< they have just found out who the gunner was who shot at Ah Bien during the last Presidential election in Taiwan.
Manowar
Well, the gunner just found dead in the water, Guess who did it????
BTW, are you chinese as well, I am impress you know a lot about taiwan politics.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:21 pm on Mar. 10, 2005
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manowar
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Quote: from ABC on 1:13 am on Mar. 9, 2005
IMO:
Taiwan would lose if they were invade.
And they have as much democracy as China does. Their elections are fixed, so there goes the voting system. They had riots because of the last elections where the current president staged getting shot.
And another point to keep in mind. Where is the so-called next "gold mine" country?? It's China. Everyone keeps talkin' about how much money can be made and how much western investments are pouring in to China. The rich in the U.S will not allow the U.S to go against China.
Most Taiwanese are ethnic Chinese. Taiwan should one day be reunited with mainland China. But with the one party dictactorial and quite illegitimate regime of the Communists, there is no chance Taiwanese people would want to join mainland under the current circumstance. As to which side will win if mainland invaded Taiwan, the estimate goes between 1 week to 6 months depending on the level of involvement from the US. However, let's all contemplate this "doomsday" scenario:
China invade Taiwan. Taiwan declare war on China and shut down all its factories in China. Japan and US demand China to cease and desist. China refuse. Taiwan sends its emissary to the US Congress to plead for help. American people are sympathetic to the underdog ( Taiwan). Bush sends warning to China. An accident ( who knows if it is a real accident and who started it) occured in the Taiwan Straits that a US ship was hit. US embargo China and close down all its factories in China. Japan demand China to withdraw from Taiwan. China refuse. Japan embargo China and close down all its factories in China. 20 millions Chinese factory workers suddently lose their jobs and took to the street demonstrating and shouting " give our jobs back and stop killing Taiwainese". Communist tanks move in to disperse the crowd. Tiananmen Square II is being played out again except this time the people have had it and not willing to back down. Some of the Chinese army generals rebel against the Communist party. A revolution starts in China. The poor inland provices form alliiance fighting the propsperous coastal provinces. Communist lost control of China, lost the war in Taiwan......some mad Communist diehards press a button, a nuclear missile heads towards...........I wake up from my nightmare
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 6:38 pm on Mar. 10, 2005
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DaffyDuck
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So, what you're saying, is that a Chinese invasion of Taiwan would, in fact, be a good thing?
While I appreciate Smegma supporting and proving my earlier point about mainland China having no legitimate hold/ownership of Formosa/Taiwan, how about an extension of your scenario -- I think that the Chinese gov't knows too well that such a scenario could play out, but I also feel that in such a case, they would quickly nationalize these factories, and maintain them with gov't subsidies - they certainly have the $$$ to do so, and this would keep the people fed, employed, and unwilling to riot. In addition, they quickly and easily would also have gained a ton of foreign technologies, and industrial resources.
At the end of the day, a win-win scenario -- the only negative outcome is that they might end up getting kicked out of the WTO, and get their goods embargoed worldwide (well, North Korea willl still continue taking watever they are given, but they can't pay) - but, here's the catch -- with Taiwan gone, an alternate source of cheap production would be gone as well, and the higher expense of consumer goods because of the embargoes against China will quickly be felt -- thus, within a short period of time, the US and Europe return to just lodging complaints, and resume buying goods from China...
Essentially, remain convinced that if China were to invade, nothing would happen, and the US will turn a blind eye to it all - certainly write nasty letters of protest to the UN, but essentially giving China carte blanche.
Eventually, the meltdown of the Communist gov't WILL happen, but it will be from within, from the enterpreneurs and middle class they just recently created.
My $0.02.
Dr. von Quack!
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:36 pm on Mar. 10, 2005
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Riceman
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Lobo, who gives a shit about Taiwan and the Commie Chinese? Zyi Zhang is where it is at!!!!!
Have you seen her nipple shot in Crouching Bargirl Hidden Good Girl. I also have a nipple-glamour shot of her too. What a babe. If the Pinko bastards ever do take over Taiwan I am sure the girls will still be just as hot, like Kung Pao Chicken,
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 10:27 pm on Mar. 10, 2005
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manowar
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Quote: from juniper on 1:15 pm on Mar. 10, 2005
Quote: from manowar on 9:42 am on Mar. 10, 2005
BTW< they have just found out who the gunner was who shot at Ah Bien during the last Presidential election in Taiwan.
Manowar
Well, the gunner just found dead in the water, Guess who did it????
BTW, are you chinese as well, I am impress you know a lot about taiwan politics.
apparent "suicide". The whole thing is kind of reminiscent of the "conspiracy" theory abound of JFK assasination. My theory is aliens from outer space came down to shoot JFK because we did not want to return the bodies of their dead alien buddy hidden away at Rosewell !! Ok, as for my chinese, put it this way: if Smeggy were with me at the karaoke bar in China, the girls would not dare calling him " lao wei, burn dan !". But I would ! hahah !
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 2:30 am on Mar. 11, 2005
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manowar
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Quote: from Smegma on 12:04 pm on Mar. 10, 2005
Quote: from DaffyDuck on 2:30 am on Mar. 11, 2005
.... The problem with China's 'rogue province' rethoric is that Formosa/Taiwan was never China's to start with, so how can it be a province, rogue or not....
.... The only reason China wants Taiwan is or their industry and economy, and because their democracy and economic success is a thorn in their side....
Are you serious Darfy? I expected an intellectual like you to know better.
It is true that for a long time Formosa was kind of nobody's land -though receiving a continuous influx of mainland chinese for centuries. However, Formosa became already formally part of China sometime in the 19th century. But then China gave it to Japan in "perpeuity" after loosing the Sino-Japanese war at the end of the century. Formosa then became part of the empire of the rising sun.
At the end of WWII, the allies let Chiang take over Formosa -at the time he still held parts of mainland China. Now, remember Chiang was fighting the communists and had he won and taken over all of the mainland, he would have kept Formosa as part of China.
At first the local Taiwanese were happy being part of China (?) under Chiang but then started to resent his government and there were some protests that were brutally repressed resulting in thousands of dead in 1947. This was the same kind of repression practised by China's communist governments. One not much better than the other.
Then in 1949 Chiang lost the war and all he had in mainland China and was only left with Formosa.
Formosa was nobody's, then Chinese, then Japanese and then Chinese again by virtue of Chiang taking it for China under his rule (as decided by the victorious allied powers). Had the KMT prevailed and defeated Mao, China today would include Formosa. Taiwanese governments first policies were always pro-unification with the mainland -however with them as the leaders and not under the communists.
As to China wanting Taiwan 'only' because of its industry and economy, that is not exactly correct. Though those are reasons that now certainly reinforce China's desire for getting Taiwan, its policy of reunification existed long before Taiwan became one the sucessful Tiger economies of Asia.
Before the end of WWII it was already agreed by Roosevelt, Churchill and Chiang that "Manchuria, Formosa, and the Pescadores shall be restored to the Republic of China."
The problem was that then there were two Chinese governments. Funny thing is that both Chinese Governments, of course, claim Formosa and the Pescadores as Chinese soil on the basis of ancient historical connection, the predominantly "Chinese" ethnic origin of the population, and the Cairo Declaration, which stipulated that "Formosa and the Pescadores shall be restored to the Republic of China." The issue then was not if Formosa was Chinese or not, but which goverment was the legitimate one for China (one China). This issue still remains the key one to this day. And this is why Taiwan is no longer a member of the UN.
All this may not be very relevant today to the Taiwanese who now just want to be independent. But many of the locals also wanted to be independent back then before Chiang took Formosa for China from the Japanese. Difference is now it is for very different reasons that they want to be "independent."
* Side Note: An American diplomat, George Kerr, who was stationed in Taipei and witnessed the first few years of Chiang's rule wrote his views on a book he titled "Formosa Betrayed." In there he writes:
After the Japanese surrender in 1945, the Formosans, despite the Cairo Declaration, hoped for a guaranteed neutrality under American or international trusteeship. Instead, they were delivered over to another and more oppressive occupation.
Their prosperous society was invaded by a horde of mainland Chinese, often brutal, ignorant, and greedy -- the dregs of the Nationalist army. The new governor, under orders, bled the island dry, ruthlessly and with dispatch.
Yet still the Formosans hoped. American propaganda, promising freedom to all oppressed peoples, and citing the glorious Revolution of 1776, continued to pour in upon them. In February 1947 unarmed Formosans rose en masse to demand reforms in the administration at Taipei. Chiang Kai-shek's answer was a brutal massacre. Thousands died -- first among them were the leaders who had asked for American help. Washington turned a deaf ear, while the Chinese communists rejoiced.
After Chiang's military collapse and retreat to Formosa the situation became even worse. As American emotional commitment to Chiang became more fervent, Formosan hope for American or United Nations intervention or understanding faded and died.
Kerr's book is free and available online. It is very informative and IMO interesting -though a bit lacking in the narrative style (some may find it very boring).
wow, Smeggy, quite a cut and paste job. May I ask which serach engine did you use ? quite impressive !
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:04 am on Mar. 11, 2005
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Smegma
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Quote: from DaffyDuck on 9:30 am on Mar. 11, 2005
While I appreciate Smegma supporting and proving my earlier point about mainland China having no legitimate hold/ownership of Formosa/Taiwan
Besides not having good knowledge of history it seems you also do not know how to read well.
Darry, you had earlier said that Formosa was never part of China. My point was to prove you wrong in that account.
If you are now going to try pretending that what you said initially was talk about "legitimacy" that is another thing; one which is mostly a matter of opinion [difference of opinions in this type of matter is what explains why so many bordering coutries have claims and dispustes over territories]. There are many cases where legitimacy gets blurred with the passage of time. What was an ilegitimate forced ocupation of a place say 300 or 50 years ago becomes legitmate overtime by people getting used to living under the present condition.
Most of the world thinks that China's claims have some legitimacy. This is because initially it was not a matter of Formosa belonging or not to China. But who would rule China (with Formosa included in it), the communists or the KMT.
With the communists prevailing in 1949, backpedaling became outright difficult. Besides there was always that wishful thinking of reunification under Chiang. Overtime when it was realised that the Taiwanese would never control the mainland, the approach changed to waiting for time to pass and hope that by prolonging the status quo, it would then become an accepted permanent situation for the PRC. This is where we stand now: how to convert this status quo into something that is acceptable to all parties.
P.S: Mano, haven't you yet learned that you do not need to quote a whole post each time you need to utter a word? Obvioulsy not. Most here are not like you and know how to follow the thread. Oh, and thanks for complimenting my "copy and paste" capabilities - they are good eh? 
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:16 am on Mar. 11, 2005
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Hermanolobo
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Quote: from Riceman on 10:21 am on Mar. 11, 2005
Lobo, who gives a shit about Taiwan and the Commie Chinese? Zyi Zhang is where it is at!!!!!
Have you seen her nipple shot in Crouching Bargirl Hidden Good Girl. I also have a nipple-glamour shot of her too. What a babe. If the Pinko bastards ever do take over Taiwan I am sure the girls will still be just as hot, like Kung Pao Chicken,
Arroz,
Nipple shot ! What's the link? What's the link ??
I used to sneer at people who fell for film stars!
Then Ziyi Zhang came along
Back to the thread:-
China sits on the UN Security Council !
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:28 am on Mar. 11, 2005
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Ronnie Raygun
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Back to the thread?
Nice work Brother Wolf for starting a political thread in this forum. You know this belongs in the Z. Don't feign ignorance or innocence about initiating this topic -- you know you're just stirring the shit. This isn't the first time you've done this but I wish it was the last.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 6:46 am on Mar. 11, 2005
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Riceman
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Okay, I hve to find it. But watch the end of Crouching dragon in the demonesses cave when Zhy comes out of the water. There it is, two perky, well-nursed purple jelly beans. Just do a repeat play and you can get a good cumshot out of it.
Manowar,
Not all far fetched and since I was a teen I have thought about a similiar scenario. The Reds will not win. A few more points to consider;
The PLA (People's Lib Army) is the largest army in the world. In a pinch, they can field 200million men (manowar, you probably know more than me on this so please correct me and I will not take it personally), but the PLA is a paper tiger and a breathless dragon. Their quality is terrible. More soldiers means alot of easy targets.
Taiwan, on the other hand, is the opposite. The Taiwanese military has a very close relationship with the US and Japanese military and an ever closer one with Israel (who unfortunately is a little too friendly with Red China too). Taiwan just a received four subs from Israel. They are not top-notch but better they are the German Vickers boats. Old, but better than the cheap knock-off Russian crap (Lobo-maybe you have more details on this).
Also, Japan will get in the fight. The Japanese Maritime Self-Defence Force is the largest, most sophisticated, and best trained navy in Asia next to Red China. However, Red China's navy is of poor quality and not designed as an interational force like the JMSDF. The JMSDF is completely integrated with the US Navy. Sailors and officers from both Navies serve on each other's ships and share naval bases.
The Red's do what they do based on American leadership. If Billary becomes pres, which she will not, then Red China knows they can do what they want. Afterall, here sub and his asst. Al Goreleoni helped army the Reds.
They won't do anything w/ Dubya around. They already tried with him and realize that Dubya knows how to play Chinese Checkers. If someone like C. Rice or McCain becomes the next Pres, they will not move.
An American, Japanese, and Taiwanese factory closure and economic embargo would bring Red China's economy to a holt and create food shortages that would be beyond believe. Many will die, but who cares? If they can withstand the millions and millions of deaths perpetrated by their own govt. since 1949, why should the Red leaders care?
I hope the Waltons our looking at alternative mfg. sources.
I'm sure Smegma is going to make-up something to dispute me know, BUT Mr. Smary-Pants Smegma. Since you are the reat seer, I want to know three things from you;
1. When the hell is a Disneyland (from Disney not a cheap copy) going to be built in LOS?
2. When will there be laundrymat on every corner like 7-11s?
3. Will Wal Mart even arrive or will the Big C mafia keep them out?
A great Chinese philosopher once said;
"You ballplayers will short bats stay close to home plate"
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:02 am on Mar. 11, 2005
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