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Kaymanx
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There is another angle to think about : if the guy wanted to end it all the easiest thing to do would have been to walk off the window of any high-rise or even something gruesome like jumping onto the tracks. A bridge-hanging is more difficult to accomplish.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:07 pm on Feb. 27, 2009
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Baquawn
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I think it would be possible for the head to remain on the rope because there would be two different forces working in different directions.
In a split second the noose tightens horizontally around the neck and grips on to the spine, skin, and windpipe. Downward forces push the rope upward toward the base of the skull. It also shrinks the area of the neck making it easier for the Spinal collum to snap off.
With all right dynamics...Large guy, old non muscular neck, slack in a good strong rope, and some length to the rope providing a good yank.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 1:12 pm on Feb. 27, 2009
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CalEden
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Black Jack Ketchum's execution, New Mexico Territory, 1901
Sepia-tone photo from a contemporary postcard showing Tom Ketchum's decapitated body. Caption reads "Body of Black Jack after the hanging showing head snapped off."
[edit] Long drop
See Official Table of Drops
This process, also known as the measured drop, was introduced to Britain in 1872 by William Marwood as a scientific advancement to the standard drop. Instead of everyone falling the same standard distance, the person's height, weight and strength[5] were used to determine how much slack would be provided in the rope so that the distance dropped would be enough to ensure that the neck was broken but not so much that the person was decapitated.
Prior to 1892, the drop was between four and ten feet (about one to three meters), depending on the weight of the body, and was calculated to deliver a force of 1,260 lbf (5,600 newtons or 572 kgf), which fractured the neck at either the 2nd and 3rd or 4th and 5th cervical vertebrae. However, this force resulted in some decapitations, such as the famous case of "Black Jack" Tom Ketchum in New Mexico Territory in 1901. Between 1892 and 1913, the length of the drop was shortened to avoid decapitation. After 1913, other factors were also taken into account, and the force delivered was reduced to about 1,000 lbf (4,400 N or 450 kgf). The decapitation of a female inmate during a botched hanging in 1930 led the state of Arizona to switch to the gas chamber as its primary execution method, on the grounds that it was believed more humane.[6] One of the more recent decapitations as a result of the long drop occurred when Barzan Ibrahim al-Tikriti was hanged in Iraq in 2007.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:46 pm on Feb. 27, 2009
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tezza
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I believe Barzan Ibrahim al-Tikriti was 1 of Saddams top advisors. I thought it was Saddams hanging that was botched like this? Some sort of controversy - maybe the filming of it on cell phone..can't remember
Have visited the Bangkok Corrections Museum recently. In the old days (prior to 1908) they used to cut off the heads of those sentenced to death with a sword. If the first executioner didn't cut off the head completely, there were 2 others waiting to finish the job off properly. The head was impaled on a stake & left for all to see. The body was cut up into bits & left for the birds to eat. Nowadays the lucky buggers get death by lethal injection
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 11:24 pm on Feb. 27, 2009
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DaffyDuck
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Quote: from FIB on 10:37 pm on Feb. 27, 2009
But what about the the plastic bag: if attached somehow to the rope, could it help maintain the head connected to the rope after the body's sudden departure?
If he pulled the plastic bag over his head, then wrapped the bag's edges around the rope around his neck, it could have provided enough traction to actually retain the head in the rope, hanging...
So, yeah, the plastic bag could be the relevant portion of the equation, whose presence actually contributed to the end results we're discussing.
Quote: from Kaymanx on 12:53 am on Feb. 28, 2009
he would have used a cloth bag which would give grip to the noose, not a plastic bag which would only help the noose to slip away.
Not necessarily - plastic, depending on how it is used, could also have the opposite effect.
Quote: from Kaymanx on 12:53 am on Feb. 28, 2009
We do not know, for example, at what point on the railing he tied the rope and whether it is easy for a man to jump out over what must be a very thick layer of concrete and steel frame. But what is difficult to grasp in this suicide theory is how the noose held on to the polybag despite slippery blood oozing out of the head. Remember also that such a big jump over the edge, which caused the body to tear off, would have resulted in wild oscillation of the rope making it even more difficult for it to hold on to the polybagged head.
Here's an idea of further details, like the length of rope, and position of the head:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/media/content/20090223/11864.jpg
Quote: from Kaymanx on 1:07 am on Feb. 28, 2009
There is another angle to think about : if the guy wanted to end it all the easiest thing to do would have been to walk off the window of any high-rise or even something gruesome like jumping onto the tracks. A bridge-hanging is more difficult to accomplish.
You would need to be conscious for any of the methods you outlined.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 2:12 am on Feb. 28, 2009
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Kaymanx
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CalEden,
Thanks for the researched feed. However, I was looking for some indication of whether the head too fell off in those cases like Barzan's did. Probably it was too obvious a fact so no mention was made of it. But in Barzan's case the report specifically mentioned the head falling off.
Daffy, I didn't quite grasp your comment :- "You would need to be conscious for any of the methods you outlined."
But, thanks for the photo link. It didn't clear my doubt though, rather added to it. The wall of the bridge seems to be a solid slab or plate structure (at least from what I could make of the distant pic). No clear cut railings are visible, or maybe those are small railings at the top. But there seems to be a good height of solid wall which could have impeded the rope at the time of the hanging. To my mind that is not conducive for a successful hanging which needs a good unimpeded drop of the rope.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:51 pm on Feb. 28, 2009
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Baquawn
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I hope to see the attempted duplication of this on Myth Busters sometime in the future.
I nominate LY as the demonstrator.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:37 pm on Feb. 28, 2009
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DaffyDuck
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Quote: from Kaymanx on 1:51 am on Mar. 1, 2009
Daffy, I didn't quite grasp your comment :- "You would need to be conscious for any of the methods you outlined."
Specifically a "walk off the window of any high-rise or even something gruesome like jumping onto the tracks" would require the person to not only be conscious to perform the act, but it would also mean they are conscious as they perform the act - most people might have an objection to jumping off a building, or jumping in front of a train -- thus, my original speculative scenario assumed that the victim, while wanting to kill himself, did not want to be conscious of his own death.
Hence, the speculated use of the plastic bag as an asphyxiation device, which would result in him being unconscious, and said unconsciousness would then carry out the actual suicide - thus, he would make certain to be unconsciousness, before his body would fall over the bridge.
Strapping a plastic bag over his head for jumping off a building *might* work similarly, though it would not work for jumping in front of a train.
Access to a high-rise location with access to the outside, allowing a jump, would not be as easy, specifically with avoiding people (that would interfere with this scenario) - the easiest means would be a hotel room, or apartment, but he didn't have that option (having just gotten evicted).
The scenario as it unfolded appears to have been the most likely one, and the most possible one considering the victim's means.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:55 pm on Feb. 28, 2009
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S M E G M A
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I agree with DD's chain of events. The guy wanted to be unconscious before doing all the other things. As DD points out all the other methods mentioned require the guy to be conscious right until he dies. Whereas this way, he can first become unconscious by asphyxiating himself and only then, when he is already unconscious, he climbs the bridge rail and makes the jump.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 11:13 pm on Feb. 28, 2009
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expatchuck
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Now dd's investigation makes sense. An unconscious man climbs over a wall/railing still with the bag over his head ashphyxiating himself and jumps off.
Case solved. Clouseau is alive and well. 
My personal theory is the guy was merely a confused bungee jumper. 
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:54 pm on Feb. 28, 2009
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