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Evil Penivel
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Quote: from pyyro on 3:41 pm on April 13, 2006
Muslim invasion, India's partitioning, some religious skirmishes... these are true of India's history. But these do not mean that Hindus and Mulsims have been fighting the bloodiest of battles for hundreds of years.
Gee, pyrro, what do they mean then? An estimated 80 million Hindus killed in the initial Muslim conquest of India, hundreds of thousands, maybe millions killed on both sides following the partition of India, and strife imvolving hundreds, sometimes thousands of casualties through the present day. Those sound like very bloody battles to me, even if not battles in the strict military sense. They have been going on for about 1,300 years.
If your point is that different groups everywhere in the world have slaughtered each other throughout history, I'll certainly grant you that point. It's been true since the days Og the Caveman and his buddies raided the tribe across the valley.
In fact, different religious or ethnic groups have almost never lived in harmony with each other. As soon as one got the upper hand, it massacred, enslaved or drove out the other, from 10,000 B.C. through 2000 A.D.
Again, if your point is that Hindu and Muslims are no worse than other groups, I can also grant you that point, but they are certainly no better.
The Western democracies, with all their faults, have made considerable progress over the past 200-300 years in reducing sectarian and even ethnic strife within their own borders. There are riots on occasion, everything isn't perfect, but it's still a long way from burning people alive or hacking them to death with machettes.
You asked some questions in your original post. Now I'll ask you one - Which other countries in the world can match the tolerance for religious and ethnic minorities found in the U.S., the U.K. and other member countries of the European Union, Australia, New Zealand, Canada as well as Mexico and other Latin American countries? Japan isn't a Western democracy, it's an Asian one, but I'd include it on the list, along with some (but not all) countries in East Europe.
EP
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:36 pm on April 13, 2006
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ColoradoGuy
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pyrro, you seemed quite interested in what countries other people are from, where are you from?
BTW, I'm from Colorado... not really a country but maybe it should be. I'd make a good President. 
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 5:58 pm on April 13, 2006
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seajohn
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Quote: from pyyro on 2:41 am on April 14, 2006
Seajohn - about Electricity and Internet: Everyone knows that. Still you preferred to write these achievements and express your resentment of my post (a post which may have been unpleasant to you). By the same logic, won't you give me the right to react to a blatantly ignorant post on an issue sensitive to me? Does that clear your confusion??
Pyrro, I admit I was a bit sarcastic about the slavery issue you mentioned being based "not on strength, but on skin color". What you meant there confused me, and nothing else--and still does.
That still confusing statement is what led to me mentioning the technological achievements etc... Perhaps that was overkill on my part.
However I do understand your desire to have perspective on the horrors inflicted around the world by man on his brother, especially if it is a subject personally affecting you. I have no resentment toward that at all. I believe that the remainder of my two posts was concerned with a desire to sincerely research these bloody battles and find out more, since the subject was brought up. As I mentioned, through research I'm familiar with how bloody a battle such as the Somme in WWI was (suggest John Keegan's "The Face of Battle", but almost any book can give one an idea), and since I hadn't recently studied the Hindu/Muslim military conflicts, I wanted to compare.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:09 pm on April 13, 2006
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retiredintahoe
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Quote: from ColoradoGuy on 11:51 pm on April 13, 2006
BTW, I'm from Colorado... not really a country but maybe it should be. I'd make a good President.
CG - I'd love to see who your First Lady would be. Dew, perhaps? Maybe she could throw out the first football at the Broncos game. 555555
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 10:17 pm on April 13, 2006
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ColoradoGuy
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Quote: from retiredintahoe on 11:10 am on April 14, 2006
CG - I'd love to see who your First Lady would be. Dew, perhaps? Maybe she could throw out the first football at the Broncos game. 555555
She does have a good arm! I'll run it by her. 555
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 11:00 pm on April 13, 2006
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pyyro
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EP...
You had asked me a question on which country can match the religious tolerance of US, UK etc.
The answer is India - and may I add that India has taught religious tolerance to the world.
Here are some facts...
a) India has never annexed a country for territorial expansion. It fought wars, but never for territory.
b) There is no definite religion called Hinduism. It has no founder and no one ever defined it's boundaries. Therefore, a Hindu child is brought up to assimilate. India assimilated from Islam and Christianity - to become richer.
A Christian or a Muslim has to LEARN to tolerate other religions - because they are TOLD that everything else is false. A Hindu is born with the idea that every person can have his own way of prayer and his own God. When a religion has 330 million gods and goddesses (including variants of the same god) - adding one or two more makes no difference. Several Hindus celebrate Christmas and Eid at their homes. Tolerating another religion is one thing - accepting the merits of another religion is another thing altogether. (You TOLERATE something that is not pleasant to you. You ACCEPT something you find to be correct. A Hindu accepts the correctness of Christ and also of Muhammed). I've found that a Hindu only dislikes is the fanaticism of some Muslim preachers and the converting-tactics of the Christian Missionary. There's no issue with co-existence with Christ or Muhammed. Therein lies the basic difference.
Have I answered your question sir?
Coming to the topic of Hindu-Muslim skirmishes...
Many of these are due to instigations by another Muslim nation inimical to the peace in India. A few of these are due to the politics of getting a chance to run the government.
The less educated use matchettes at every excuse - but the educated ones immediately put a stop to that. Did you know that Hindu and Muslim Children usually visit the same schools - (very often run by a Christian Church) ?
The western media arrives with great pomp and show for a few days, stay in star rated hotels - and send the report that will sell easily back-home. (This is also a good opportunity for the reporters to see some sights like the Taj Mahal.)
That's why I react when someone passes an expert (?) comment in Hindu-Muslim rivalry just because he has been browsing the internet.
About the success of the Western Democracies: TRUE... there can be no second opinion about this.
But... what is the diversity present in these democracies? What percentage of people follow other than the main religion? How many religions are preached? How many different languages are spoken? What is the population of the democracy? Is there any shortage of money to build basic infrastructure?
Sir - the fact that India is a thriving democracy for over 50 years is an achievement in itself. Small western countries like Yugoslavia have broken apart because 1/3rd of their population followed other than the main religion. (Yugoslavia, by the way, is smaller than a province of India. Therefore, the last question is also about the territorial size of the western democracy.)
EP... I must give you credit for having better insight that most on this issue, but I'm sad to say, you are only at the tip of the iceberg.
I have travelled across the length and breadth of India - and I still travel a lot. I know first-hand what I am writing about.
One more thing: this so-called Islamic Terrorism thing, and the world getting riskier by the day....
My personal view is that India is the only nation that may lead the world to a peaceful solution to this issue. Every other point of view seems to lead to chaos. (This is only my personal view).
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:23 pm on April 14, 2006
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pyyro
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Seajohn...
Appreciate your depth in wanting to probe for a unbiased view. You may not find this on the net. Do what I do. Travel.
About Slavery... In old days, "might" was assumed to be "right". But here "might" did not work. It was only the colour of skin and a tiny-weeny man with the right skin tone could command an army of people three times his size.
Face of battle: in WW-II 68000 people died in one of the last battles between Germany and US. Hindu-Muslim riots leave about a hundred dead - and occur 1 to 3 times in a decade.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:33 pm on April 14, 2006
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Mel Gibson
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India,,,religious tolerance?????
I may perhaps be incorrect but wasn't India partitioned into pieces ( creating Pakistan,Kashmir) because of religious issues?? Strange thing to happen to such a tolerant country.
OK, then after the split including a "seperate" Kashmir, India took 63% of that country by force ( close enough for a annexation for me).
There is blood on nearly every countries hands.
Pyyro,, your questions regarding western democracies answered from Australia are,,,,
Diversity,,, some 43%+ of Australians where born overseas or have a parent born overseas.
Main official religion, Christianity,,, but Atheism is practiced by an estimated 40% of the population and tolerated by the majority.Buddhism, Hinuism and all religions are also practiced here.
Languages spoken are in the hundreds ( including dialects).
No shortage of money for infrastructure.
Australia is over DOUBLE the size of India.
India a thriving democracy for over 50 years,,,well Australia has been a democracy a LOT longer than that.
One question,, if India is so tolerant why is there such a discusting and brutal "caste" system, were people are pidgeon holed depending NOT on their intellect or abilities but on whom their parents are and bludgeoned back to "their level" if they make any effort to improve their life.
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Posted on: 5:31 pm on April 14, 2006
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Coitus Continuous
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Pyyro......... I can TOLERATE your opinions being expressed on this board.
I do not feel that I can ACCEPT them as valid.
I agree that you cannot study history by just surfing the net, but then
nobody was suggesting that..
Likewise, I do not think that you will get an accurate picture of a place nor its history by merely travelling…….just a current impression.
Neither will you get an accurate impression of what happened in a place to a certain people just by picking up a book.
The eager learner for the truth has to acknowledge that 10 different books, written by 10 different writers, from 10 different countries, will write in 10 different ways about what has happened. And draw 10 different conclusions.
Thus the serious student of history is always compelled to return to and examine primary sources. Maybe you should adopt this approach, for the pictures of India that you wish to present here seem to be totally distorted.
Have a good day.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 6:05 pm on April 14, 2006
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DaffyDuck
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Quote: from pyyro on 3:16 am on April 15, 2006
Here are some facts...
a) India has never annexed a country for territorial expansion. It fought wars, but never for territory.
This would, undoubtedly, come as news to Pakistanis and Kashmiris.
Quote: from pyyro on 3:16 am on April 15, 2006
b) There is no definite religion called Hinduism. It has no founder and no one ever defined it's boundaries. Therefore, a Hindu child is brought up to assimilate.
Good and valid point - how does the caste system fit into all of that?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:59 pm on April 14, 2006
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