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Chompoo
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I have NEVER ANYWHERE been charged to "buy the girl a drink," that is suppose to be built into the high price you are paying for the "lady drink."
There's nothing unethical about a bar charging a fee to relieve the welcome girl of her duties so you can buy her a drink. Maybe just the cost of two drinks is enough to offset the loss of business from not having their best girl out front, but that is their decision to make, not ours. It is our decision whether or not it is worthwhile to pay that extra fee or keep walking, just as it is our choice whether to pay a B500 BF so the gogo girl sitting next to us doesn't have to take the stage during her set.
However, they certainly should have told you up front about the fee. They did back down on the fee when they realized you weren't aware of it, but it is still a tad shady that they would try to get away with this in the first place (if that is indeed what they did, which we can not tell for sure). If you really insist on the highest of ethical standards then you will quickly run out of places to drink in Thailand.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:43 pm on April 12, 2004
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Chompoo
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In some places, there are more expectations of buying LDs than others.
But for the most part there is little or no expectation of a BF on Soi 33. For many, this is another plus for Soi 33 bars over the gogos and beer bars. It's basically pay as you go, and the girls are not (so much) angling to get you to take them home. You can just enjoy the moment; the Soi 33 girl will stay by your side as long as you are meeting her standards for buying LDs (or other form of tips) and at any time either one of you can call it quits with no hard feelings.
Also, some of these girls are not prostitutes
They're all prostitutes, just some of them are more discriminating on what and who they will do.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 7:54 pm on April 12, 2004
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ColoradoGuy
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Quote: from Chompoo on 7:54 pm on April 12, 2004
They're all prostitutes, just some of them are more discriminating on what and who they will do.
If you define prostitute as:
One who solicits and accepts monetary payment for sex acts
or even looser as:
One who accepts monetary payment for sex acts
then it is still true that some of these girls are not prostitutes.
I saw your comment (two posts below) that someone who lets you "squeeze her ass" is a prostitute. I don't buy it. Anyone can be called anything when you redefine the word. No need to get into this any more and f_uck the thread about Soi33 bars with philosophical redefinition of a word. You are free to redefine the word "prostitute" to make it fit what you want. A sex act is a sex act. 
I guess I'm just saying that a girl who accepts money for sex is acting as a prostitute, and a girl who plays pool with you and you buy her a drink and she tolerates you patting her ass and she will NOT sleep with you is not acting as a prostitute. If this is defining 'prostitute' in a way I see fit, then so be it. We'll agree to disagree.
I was not intending on some philosophical redefinition of the word prostitute. The simple point I was making in the first place is that there are *some* Soi33 girls that will not have sex with you, even if you offer them money (this does NOT make them better or worse than the others, just different, after all, this Bangkok). People who frequent Soi33 on a regular basis know this, but it might not be apparent to newbies.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:04 pm on April 12, 2004
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sanook269
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Chompoo wrote:
try to get away with this in the first place (if that is
indeed what they did, which we can not tell for sure).
**************************
That is, indeed, exactly what they did. Nothing added,
nothing substracted.
Chompoo also wrote:
There's nothing unethical about a bar charging a fee to relieve the welcome girl of her duties so you can buy her a drink.........However, they certainly should have told you up front about the fee. They did back down on
the fee when they realized you weren't aware of it, but it is still a tad shady
***********************
"a tad shady"???!!! I was NOT told. It happened just as I outlined in an earlier message. You don't think this unethical?? You just think it is "a tad shady"??!!
I'm a business man. I don't begrudge anyone a profit, but if you find what happened to me at Christie's "a tad shady," I don't want to be anywhere near you or any business you are associated with.
Please, if you own a business in BKK, please tell me where it is so I can avoid it at all cost. Thank you very much.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 8:20 pm on April 12, 2004
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Chompoo
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If you define prostitute as:
One who accepts payment payment for sex acts
then it is still true that some of these girls are not prostitutes.
What is a "sex act?" They are all selling their bodies in one way or another. You may personally draw the line at intercourse, or blow job or even hand job. But I don't feel comfortable saying that a girl who gives a hand job is a prostitute, but one who gives a lap dance is not. Or the girl who lets you squeeze her ass while she is playing pool, or lets you cup her breast while sitting having a drink, or lets you grind your pelvis against her rear while dancing,.... And some are not "prostitutes" because they only go with guys they really like (yet they accept LDs and/or a BFs and/or shopping money) ?
As you said, some of them may not want to think of themselves as prostitutes. Girls (and the guys who love them) will always set the line so that prostitutes (or whores) are the bad girls who are just on the other side of the line from the good girls (themselves).
A sex act is a sex act.
Just like obscenity. You can't define it, but you know it when you see it, right?
The bottom line is that YOU can choose to define a prostitute (or whore) anyhow you see fit, but any distinction is arbitrary and self-serving. Many guys don't consider their bargirl girlfriends as prostitutes (or their Orbit dancer girlfriends, towards the other end of the spectrum) and I'm not going to disabuse them of that notion unless they use that label to disparage other girls.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 8:29 pm on April 12, 2004
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Chompoo
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Sanook, are you really this irate and bitter over something so trivial or are you normally so dense?
That is, indeed, exactly what they did. Nothing added,nothing substracted.
So you are saying that without a doubt that it was their intention to lure customers in, deliberately withhold information about the charge, and then try to hope they wouldn't notice? I haven't disputed your assumption that you weren't notified in advance or that they put the charge on your bill. Don't be an idiot. But isn't it remotely possible that they have this quite reasonable fee in place and between your poor Thai and their poor English did not adequately communicate it to you? Or perhaps thought it was unnecessary and too much effort to inform you since they were apparently quite willing to not charge you if you were unwilling to pay? Nope, absolutely 100% guaranteed they were just trying to stick it to the farang.
"a tad shady"???!!! I was NOT told. It happened just as I outlined in an earlier message. You don't think this unethical?? You just think it is "a tad shady"??!!
Tell me again, were you TOLD or not? I'm really not clear on that. And while you're at it can you tell me if it really happened just like in your message?
Jeez man, chill out and realize that I'm not disputing your recounting of the story, just your interpretation and your continuing overreaction (based on your telling of the story).
I'm a business man. I don't begrudge anyone a profit, but if you find what happened to me at Christie's "a tad shady," I don't want to be anywhere near you or any business you are associated with.
Please, if you own a business in BKK, please tell me where it is so I can avoid it at all cost. Thank you very much.
If I had a business you can be sure that you wouldn't be welcome in it. Waitress miscounted your change? "THIEVES! CHEATS!" Bar fine 1000 baht instead of 500? "SCOUNDRELS! GREEDY BASTARDS!" I was sympathetic before, but now you're making yourself out to be the quintessential pain in the ass customer.
I already said they should have told you about the fee and to reiterate it is indeed unethical to intentionally hide costs or inflate them after the fact.
But you are an idiot for absolutely insisting that it is completely unreasonable for them to want to charge a fee for you taking their welcome girl out of service and from your account you completely overreacted and reinforced their stereotype of the ill-mannered and out-of-control farang.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:01 pm on April 12, 2004
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juniper
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,.... And some are not "prostitutes" because they only go with guys they really like (yet they accept LDs and/or a BFs and/or shopping money) ?
Well, by your definition, most of people who work for a living can be define as prostitutes
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:44 pm on April 12, 2004
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TJ
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Quote: from Geronimo on 8:18 am on April 9, 2004
Did anyone else ever get charged like sanook, or did Bars on 33 try to rip off customers in any way?
Yes and no. At Christie's, I paid a 300 baht charge to bring one of the staff from behind the bar out to sit with me - but I knew I was doing so. This was a girl I'd seen twice before. This seems similar to bringing in one of the reception girls, in that one is removing them from their designated post.
Note that this was not the barfine. Barfine for this girl was 1500 baht. This was just a charge to divert her from the immediate performance of her duties behind the bar.
Of course, my girl was pumping me for cash. Buy drink for me, buy one for my friend (coincidentally, it was her friend's birthday), and can you give me taxi money for the ride home tonight? (the last bit was after I'd said I had a headache and had to leave).
Gah. The taxi money question. She put out her hand, as though it were a demand. (palm upraised, parallel to the ground).
First BG to get her hooks into me. That taxi money question sealed her fate. Still can't figure out why I gave it to her. 
This girl also gave me a story about how she had been waiting for me on the steps on the corner of soi 33 and Sukhumvit on New Years eve, or at least after closing (at 7am? Her story makes less and less sense the more I type it). And when she wasn't looking, someone took her purse with all her money and her cell phone.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:45 pm on April 12, 2004
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sanook269
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A thief is a thief whether they be a bar girl, a bar owner or a prime minister. Thailand is the only place I have ever been where this sort of thing happens almost on a daily basis, but, what the hell, they do it with a smile. Seems that SOME people who live there develop, after a while, a lower ethical standard, than, perhaps they had a "home." I think that is called, "going native"? As I said, I don't begrudge any one a profit, but the almost constant "nickel and diming" that goes on, just wears me down after a while. I would like to be able to go out for the evening and not have an establishment, be it a bar or restaurant, bar girl, or Soi 33 girl, taxi cab driver, or Tuk Tuk driver try and rip me off in one form or the other.
Maybe I am expecting too much from my fellow human being. I've always had the motto, you treat me right, I'll treat you right. "do unto other, etc., etc., etc.," It has always worked for me, EXCEPT in Thailand. They seem to take that to mean you are stupid and you are "free game." I show them the respect I would like to be shown and they, in a manner of speaking, try to pick my pockets.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 9:58 pm on April 12, 2004
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sanook269
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And, NO, NO one said a word, in English, in Thai
or pig latin. They just presented a bill and expected payment.
Why is it that when the Thai pull a scam like this or some bar girl lies in your face, you are not suppose to react? You are not suppose to call them on their behavior. You are suppose to just let them get a way with it and pretend everything is just fine. It is like being around spoiled kids that you tolerant because they are your employer's children, or your brother's kids. You are saying that we should NOT call them on it? What should I have done? Ah, gee miss mama-san, big smile, I know you are a liar and a thief, but, that is OK, here, why don't I just give you my money clip and you just take what you think is fair. Is that OK?
This line of thinking is why, and why Thailand will always be, a backwater, 3rd world country.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:23 pm on April 12, 2004
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