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cmore
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Hey brother CJE, advice taken and accepted in the spirit in which it was given. Thanks. By the way, in case I didn't mention this before Mrs. CJE is on my list of Thailands top 10 rarest treasures. I envy you. Peace
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:05 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
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MrJoe
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cmore,
I still don't have time to give you the thoughtful precise response your posts deserve but I feel the need to respond out of regard for you.
First I feel I may not have taken enough care to point out to you that my observations were regarding Falangs and TGs in general; As I've said before I think it is a mistake to think you can save these girls, EXCEPT that sometimes, if they want to be saved, you can. I am glad that there are guys out there with the sort of compassion and decency that you clearly have in abundance. ÝBut because I have also seen a great deal of intelligence and good sense in your posts, I took it for granted that you realised that TGs like Mrs. Joe, Mrs. CJE, BallsB's girl, your lady and others are of the rarest kind.
I simply don't see the point in your effort to find a way for a girl to continue as a BG and be sponsored. ÝI thought the reason for sponsoring would either be because you care about the person enough that you would like to help them change their life or because you want exclusive rights. Ý
There is much truth in that much repeated law "You can take the girl out of the bar..."* and yes there are exceptions to prove that rule; You can some times take the bar out of the girl-but only if you take her out of the bar. My understanding is that you are seeking some sort of middle ground which IMO doesn't exist.
*There are reasons for this. , I once thought I was a genius for figuring it out until I came to realise that, as chateau put it recently, it was the conventional wisdom. More on this later.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 12:53 am on Aug. 26, 2002
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Ballsburstin
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cmore,
I have to agree with MrJoe's last post. I don't see a realistic way to buy out a contract and leave the BG in the bar. To do so begs the question, "what amy I buying? " I considered this briefly with my TG (free lance at her go-go bar as we transitioned to something more resembling a relationship), but it was apparent it wouldn't work. So I considered sponsorship because I felt we had more than a lose friendship and professional relationship. I felt this way for two reasons:
1) When I first visited her go-go bar, I never saw her (she was just finishing her dance routine on stage). She saw me however, and for some reason was attracted to me (I was with some other guys, and not the most handsome or monied in the group). But she was too shy to come over. So while I was watching the next group of dancers, I found her suddenly sitting next to me. She had told her friend about me and her friend had dragged her over to my seat. She didn't quite know what to say, just smiled shyly and looked at the stage. This is not a normal come-on for BG's. And there was something in her character that caused me to abandon my drinking buddies immediately and bar fine her for LT. After that, I couldn't get her out of my heart, even though my head was saying "proceed with caution."
2) After spending weeks with her over the course of several months, she started to tell me about her customers. Some of the stories were funny, some sad, some a little scary. Then she got to the point where she found she wasn't enjoying her work anymore, even with old LT customers. She said she couldn't relate to them sexually anymore, because she was thinking too much about me ("I must be crazy mahk, mahk -- why I like this?" ). I suppose from a Western perspective, you could say she might be falling in love? It came to a head when an old LT customer of hers took her LT for three days, and then realized there was something really wrong. He told her not to stay after the first night, and went back to the go-go bar the next night to pick another BG. This was a turning point, because she liked him but something inside her finally snapped. She was a bit distraught when she told me this story a few days afterwards. She didn't have to tell me that the buyout/free lance thing wouldn't work: she didn't have it in her. But she also didn't have the financial or educational tools to jump without help.
So my point is this: ÝI think Ms BallsB, Mrs CJE, MrsJoe, and Ms cmore's are a rarity in the BG community, because the money is easy, and it is too easy to con the farang out of money with promises of love and fidelty. I sponsored my TG, in essence "buying out her contract" because we seem to love each other and want to make a go of it. I wouldn't spend the emotional and monetary energy for any other reason.
I've done my considerable share of ST and LT (in a number of countries) over the years to see the differences with my current situation. I would rather spend the money and love on our current TGs, wives, families, instead of the philanthropy of other contract buyouts.
I realize this response doesn't directly address the hypothetical numbers that cmore threw out to start the thread, and to challenge us for answers. But for me, it's not about the numbers, it's an emotionally driven issue about focusing on one TG, with a foot in reality and an eye for cmore's proverbial other shoe dropping. With the distant hope for the end game that MrJoe and ChateauJade now enjoy.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:42 am on Aug. 26, 2002
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MrJoe
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BallsB,
If I haven't said it before, let me say now that from all I've heard- you definitely seem to have a keeper. I was rather touched by your last post and despite being the hardened, cynical old expat that I am I don't scoff at it at all (Though some will.) I have experienced or seen some stories as beautiful as your's seems to be and I know they exist.
Again I want to say that you seem to have acheived virtually the perfect balance between good sense and being open to good things. (Of course you're OK - you agreed with me!) I sincerely hope that your decency is rewarded and that you and your lady (What's her name?) wind up together and happy. THE SIGNS ARE GOOD.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 4:13 am on Aug. 26, 2002
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MrJoe
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BTW,
Didn't you mean to say "I agree with every single thing MrJoe has ever said."?
Seriously, when you specified my last post, I wonder if you disagreed with the previous post. ÝIf so, you should tell me why. (I'm also curious why cmore is ignoring my post. Do you think I offended him somehow? ÝI never meant to infer anything negative about him or his girl.)
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 4:18 am on Aug. 26, 2002
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MrJoe
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BallsB,
I forgot to say- Thank god for pushy freinds! I met my wife, who had been checking me out in a disco, also when her freind physically dragged her over (I watched her do it.)
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:22 am on Aug. 26, 2002
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Ballsburstin
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MrJoe,
"I agree with every single thing MrJoe has ever said." Ha! Couldn't resist!
But seriously, I concur with the posts from you and ChateauJade in this thread. You have, IMHO, correctly stated that buying out a contract and still having your TG free lance are mutually exclusive. Eventually something has to give, probably the relationship.
I know of only one case where the working/dating thing is really working (she's a post-op ladyboy and one of the nicest people I've met in LOS), and that's because she has a specific exit date in mind (going back to get a Master's Degree), will have been in the trade only one year, and was always free lancing (no buyout). Her boyfriend (who also has a Master's Degree and reinforces the value of education with her) used to be married to a stripper in the States, has set up rules of engagement, so they have a mutual respect. But, again, I think this is an exceptional situation, and one that appears to be working for them.
-Balls
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:09 pm on Aug. 26, 2002
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Ballsburstin
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MrJoe,
Yes, we owe their pushy friends a big thank you! Which brings to mind something I've often pondered about my current situation: I believe the nature of the introduction may have a lot to do with the viability of the relationship. It tends to show intent. In the maelstrom of the BG scene, this is sometimes hard to see.
-Balls
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 1:21 pm on Aug. 26, 2002
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MrJoe
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Balls,
First of all the couple you described clearly are indeed extraordinary (in a few ways), som uch so that I wouldn't even call them "the exception that proves the rule"; I would say they are unique unto themselves (More power to 'em).
Re: Your observation about intro - brilliant! I think your reasoning is strong and I have more exmples in my case file that seem to confirm your hypothesis. Nice one.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:29 pm on Aug. 26, 2002
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