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Sir Rimalot
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I for one don't mind the cleanup of lewd shows.... I prefer to have my lewd shows in the privacy of my room.... once you've seen a T/G shoot a dart from her pussy and burst a baloon, or pulling a string of razerblades from her pussy... I don't need to see it again...... as for topless dancers... it dosen't bother me... if i wanna see them titties I bf the girl and unrap her in the privacy of my room...
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:27 am on Aug. 12, 2003
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JackRabbit
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JackRabbit present...
Wide Spectrum:
Liked, what You said about those foreigners , who help police to "ferret" out the places doing this and that.
Truly certified scums...
I'd prefer the old-fashioned tar-and-feathers treatment for those dudes and after that they would be carried around riding on a go-go-pole.
JR
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 6:36 am on Aug. 12, 2003
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bound4bangkok
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hello all
Actually would not bother me a bit to not have guys getting BJs in the bar and the sex shows stopped. Just so long as theres a go go bar to hang out in and look at girls and chat them up a bit I all good. a little cleaning up of this is fine.
My favorite places are the beer bars anyways so has long has the soi 7 or the morning 9 are still open and the girls are all there doing there thing I happy
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:51 pm on Aug. 12, 2003
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haam sup
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ThaidUp,
I have come to the conclusion that you are thick.
For the LAST time: it's about GLOBAL image, not about actual problems in Thailand. ÝThere are NO websites featuring polluted canals, beaches, etc. ÝThere are DOZENS of websites promoting and encouraging sex tourism in Thailand. Pracha and his boss probably care MORE about the canals, but they KNOW the sex part gets all the attention, and they are willing to scapegoat farangs, and exploit public opinion to further their OWN agendas.
You can't go on as though it's YOUR country. It isn't.
It's Thailand.
haam sup
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 2:01 pm on Aug. 12, 2003
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Kaymanx
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At the end of the day, it boils down all over again to the male striking out at the female's economic independence. Haam Sup's reading of the local ethos and vulnerability to loss of face can be traced almost entirely to Thai males rather than females. I have met quite a few females in Thailand from mainstream families who have never sounded like they were ever disgusted with the bars and nightlife. Very likely most women in Thailand understand what their sisters in the bars are doing and why, and appear to have no recriminations about it. Most Thai women put up with the indolence of the male. This is very apparent anywhere you go, whether you consider the girls who work hard in the shopping malls at one end of the spectrum or the pimps who hang out on the roads at the other end. So, it does appear as if to save his face, the male has struck out at the female's source of livelihood. Figure it, every activity that would come under a ban or a curb will affect the woman more than the man.
This is NOT to say that women were fit to work only in these professions, or that they now won't find other vocations. But, given the economic reality, given the lack of adeqaute education to women, there doesn't seem to exist a damned chance that these poor illiterate girls would find an alternative. Neither can the government can provide for them. Imagine providing employment to thousands of uneducated girls. Or, if not employment, providing them an education opportunity. The realuty is that this is not an integrated plan to take the youngsters away from an undesirable activity and herd them into schools. If that were the case, I am sure they would have got all our best wishes. That isn't the case. It's just politicians staging their one-act plays. I tend to agree with ThaidUp on this score, that it is just an act. Also, I find myself agreeing with DG, that this is just a preparation for GWB's impending visit.
Like they say, this too will pass. Let's hope.
So, am I sounding like I don't want Thai society to "reform"? Once again I iterate, if this was part of an integrated plan to take care of the girls and give them a better life, the men in charge would have all our best wishes. But it isn't. So they don't.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 2:05 pm on Aug. 12, 2003
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haam sup
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Kaymanx,
I THOROUGHLY disagree.
I know LOTS of Thai women, many more than I do Thai men, and while they may understand and even empathise with the girls, they UNIFORMLY blame farangs and believe the WHOLE scene is caused by them. ÝTo do otherwise would require them to acknowledge the status quo: all Thai men fool around. ÝSo, a convenient defense mechanism is to identify the problem as foreign influence.
I found your rhetoric about "...the male striking out at the female's economic independence." to be a GIANT load of the well-known article, and particularly noxious. ÝIt's an attempt to map your Western values onto Thai society, and as such, stinks.
Thailand is a MATRIARCHAL society, and family finances are usually controlled by the women. ÝIf you had couched it in terms of class oppression, or something only a little less smug, I would have let it pass.
You toss around terms like 'a better life', and 'adequate education'. ÝThese are Western NGO terms, and IMHO are causing a LOT of stress. ÝNo Thai likes to think the WE have a 'better life' in store for them. ÝIt's all just too presumptuous, and smug.
I think we can understand what is taking place, but as soon as our own agendas become our motivation, we commit the gravest error: condescension.
haam sup
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:08 pm on Aug. 12, 2003
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One Eyed Jack
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Hmmm my 1 1/2 cents worth,
Perception is reality. If most Thais perceive that the sex industry is a farang problem, then it is. The reality is that farangs only account for a tiny little part of the sex industry in Thailand. Image? Face? Yep, agree with Hamm Sup...I'm sure this is a big deal for some.
Fortunately, I believe that Thai men will not easily give up their P4P activities and as long as they don't, it will be available to farangs as well. That being said, Thailand is one place that I wouldn't be surprised to see a separate law for Thais and farangs.
Another item, the dollars that 'tourists' spend on play, hotels, and everything else is just a drop in the bucket. The dollars I'm talking about is all the business that happens when execs like myself make Thailand a choice to do business. I'm speaking from personal experience here and hundreds of conversations with fellow execs visiting LOS. Thailand is a screwed up pain in the ass place to do business. Why then is it stop on the trip? Hmmmmm, I'll give you all one guess. Yeah, many like me out there I know. If that was gone, so would the stop on the trip. Let's put it this way, my business will employ 1,000's of Thais. But for distractions available, I would have chosen another country. The road to a successful venture was much harder, but getting there was a lot of fun. Get the picture? Now multiply me x 10,000's and over time you would have a problem economically. The trip dollars are indeed minimal.
I do believe though that there is a social movement underway. Women are and will become more and more independant. that is, less dependant on men emotionally and as a source of self identify. And yes, financially as well as careers broaden and become more meaningful. Nothing to do with the p4p scene really but you will have lots of situations of men lashing out as things change. We see it in Japan, Korea and other places in Asia. It's uncomfortable, westerners sometimes get blamed for emposing values, etc. etc. Who knows. Could the p4p assault be an example of 'lashing out' at westerners? Who knows...probably as Haam sup said, more an issue of 'global image' versus any real desire to change things.
Personally, when I talk about Thailand with anyone who hasn't been there, I never talk about the p4p scene. I don't like to perpetuate the image. I instead talk about the food, the people and all the things I love about it.
As long as the MP's, gogos, beer gardens, and clubs like Piano, Spasso, CM2, etc. remain for the most part un-changed then I'm happy. I believe this will be the case...or should I say.. HOPE.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:47 pm on Aug. 12, 2003
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Holy Diver
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Kaymanx said: "I have met quite a few females in Thailand from mainstream families who have never sounded like they were ever disgusted with the bars and nightlife."
Interesting. ÝI have never met one single traditional Thai woman who was not disgusted with the go-go bars, prostitutes and rowdy nightlife industry. ÝOfcourse, some hate it more than others - but I would venture to guess that the vast majority of Thai females who do not make their living in, or associated with, the P4P industry probably detests it.
I would suspect that this "quite a few females from mainstream families" you've discussed this issue with were likely not being honest with you.
I do not suggest that most Thai females want to close Ýnightlife venues of all kinds, but I firmly believe that the vast majority of traditional Thai women would be in favor of completely shutting most, if not all, of the P4P aspects of entertainment and nightlife.
Kaymanx said: "So, am I sounding like I don't want Thai society to 'reform'?"
Yes, you are. ÝAnd each and every time I hear people complain when there is any hint of an interruption of the P4P industry in Thailand, I do indeed suspect the real reason is because said person wants to protect something which they personally enjoy, but which may not at all be healthy for Thai society. ÝPerhaps you are more honest than most....
One Eyed Jack said: "If most Thais perceive that the sex industry is a farang problem, then it is."
More particularly, if most Thais believe that it is detrimental for their country to be seen around the world as a haven for prosititution - then they will want to put an end to that part of the problem which is the easiest to address. ÝSince Thai people are loathe to actually confront the underlying problem, which is that part of their culture which accepts and encourages men to visit prostitutes, there is little chance they will soon Ýattack the roots of the problem - instead they will go after the visible industry that attracts so much attention on TV, the Internet and in books.
Really, I can't blame them.
One Eyed Jack said: "Fortunately, I believe that Thai men will not easily give up their P4P activities and as long as they don't, it will be available to farangs as well."
I basically agree with this. ÝIt may not be available in the same way as it is now, but there will not likely be any shortage of P4P girls ready and willing to go with Ýfarangs. The scene will gradually just not be allowed to be so visible. ÝAnd really, a less visible scene is indeed probably better for the Thai's, and also could be a benefit to farangs who are familiar enough with the country that it will be no real trouble finding the less visable venues where the same ole' P4P will be on tap. ÝA less visible industry will help keep some of the degenerates, football hooligans, pedophiles, etc, etc out of Thailand.
One Eyed Jack said: "Could the p4p assault be an example of 'lashing out' at westerners?"
Mostly it is just the part of the problem that is easiest to identify. ÝCutting out the visible farang sex industry will temporarily make the Thai's feel better, but the underlying problem will still exist. ÝIt may take a very long time, but eventually as Thailands economy becomes more powerful and produces a better standard of living for more of its citizens - I suspect you will indeed see a willingness of middle class Thai citizens to tackle the underlying problems creating the ease with which the prostitution industry flourishes. Ý Ý
Ý
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:04 pm on Aug. 12, 2003
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ThaidUp
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haam sup Thick?? Maybe in the gut, but not in the head. Your window into Thailand is the web thus you asume that the net is the cause of all this activity. Its not, do not assume the actions of a few men (very small number) on the net have any power to control the Thai government policy. The web is a non-issue. It is only important to BG's trying to get money from punters.
True its about face, but if you were here you would see the reason why. Every night Chuwit is on the evening news and I mean every night. The Thai people are demanding action. Most Thai's do not have access to the Internet, but almost all have a TV and with Chuwit making CNN and the nightly news the government must act or lose face.
Being the Thai way not to accept responsibility, what better way to take action than blame the bad sex tourist falang for causing this problem. Ah ha problem solved and another 90-day crackdown. This will be over in 90 days just like the drug war, DVD CD copy war etc...
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 6:52 pm on Aug. 12, 2003
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Holy Diver
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ThaidUp -
"Your window into Thailand is the web thus you asume that the net is the cause of all this activity."
I don't know haam sup, but I suspect his knowledge of Thailand is far, far more than just what he reads on the internet.
"The web is a non-issue. It is only important to BG's trying to get money from punters."
Nonsense. ÝIf that were true the Thai Government would not be busily trying to censor internet access in their country from anything that they deem casts Thailand in a bad light.
The internet is not only not a "non-issue" in the eyes of the current Thai Government, it is a MAJOR issue for them. ÝInfact, I think they are actually acting foolishly in their attempts to hide content from their people.
"and with Chuwit making CNN and the nightly news the government must act or lose face."
Agreed on this point. ÝThis scandal has probably forced the Governments hand. ÝBut the intent of TRT, and PM Thaksin in particular to crack down on the visible farang nightlife scene is no secret. ÝThis just gives them another excuse to ramp up the social order campaign - not to mention being an excellent time to do it.
"Being the Thai way not to accept responsibility, what better way to take action than blame the bad sex tourist falang for causing this problem."
I agree with some of what your say here. ÝJust keep in mind that almost all people like to avoid accepting responsibility and/or addressing the real difficult choices and issues. ÝPeoples in countries all over the world like to blame the foreigner whenever they have problems they either can't or are not willing to deal with. ÝThis is not only a Thai problem. ÝSuch is life.
"This will be over in 90 days just like the drug war, DVD CD copy war etc..."
This time. ÝBut mark my words. ÝThe scene as we know it will not last forever. ÝEventually, the popular will of the people will give the Thai government license to shut much of the highly visible farang nightlife down. ÝThat doesn't mean P4P will go away, just that it won't exist in its current form. Ý
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:11 pm on Aug. 12, 2003
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