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MrJoe
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One more!
Maybe the question we need to ask is; What does someone expect from a sponsorship? It seems to me their are two distinct choices*:
1) A girlfreind
2) A mistress
Buying out a contract might be a way to save some money on the second (nothing wrong with that)--
I don't believe it will get you the first.
*The results in both situations are perhaps equally likely to be a disappointment but surely failure in the first would be more painful.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:54 am on Aug. 28, 2002
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ABC
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MrJoe:
Good question.
Before I answer it I just want to reiterate that when we did this we were newbies and very nieve as well. The year was 1999.
When 2 of my associates and I paid the females so-called contracts, our intentions were more as a mistress then as a gf. Eventhough, we had seen these females for 2 straight trips(every 3 months for 10 days = 20 days), we were getting tired of them and wanted to experience "other" females. But, because we had seen them for those 20 days, they had gotten of course very attached to us, so we are sure that they thought of us as their bf's.
You can call this "chicken-shit" if you want, but as our last good conduct/favor to them, we bought their contracts out so that they could be "free" and so we would not end things on a bad note.
I know stupid!! But hey; We did not know any better at the time and felt bad for not wanting to see them.
Two of us did not make this move from an economical standpoint. Meaning that we did not intent to see them again and figured we could get our money back without paying a bar find again. we were semi-realistic. The other associated wanted to continue to see his female and figured that she might be "the one"!! And that is another story!! ha ha ha ha!!
All three females were the "waitress". The manager said on our first visit that they really never go out and that we were "special". Do you know how many times I've heard that since?? Special?? Yeah. Like a huge lollypop!! SUCKER!! ha ha ha ha!!
So, anyways, we bought their contracts out and two of us never took our females out again, but did Kept in contact a little bit afterwards. . The other associate continued to see his female.
The manager did throw a huge party at Rainbow for us though with champagne and food!! Of course, I am sure that we actually paid for our own party with the 45,000 baht the manager had collected from us.
So, it was not painfull from an emotional standpoint at that time, but maybe thinking back, from a monetary one!! Since, 15,000 per female could've gone a long way, knowing what I know now!! ha ha ha ha!!
What was painfull was going back to NaNa plaza on a subsequent trip so that our other associate could see his "friend". Eventhough, he did not have to pay the bar fine any more, she still wanted him to show up at the bar and take her out. So, being the soft-hearted guy he was, he did.
The other two females were sistersand for whatever reason felt scorn and did cause a little bit of trouble the first couple times we went back. Not physical trouble, but being verbally loud and obnoxious. From all that I've read and learned, they got paid from that 15k we spend on each. Go figure. I guess they wanted the gravy train to continue.
So, we now laugh about what we did and how we got played at times!!
I think I've answered your question and then some. Sorry for the long post!!
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 3:21 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
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cmore
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Hey guys, the wait is finally over. I know you've all been anxiously waiting for the conclusion of brother Cmore's trip through never never land and I sincerely appreciate all of the patience you've all shown me and for all the crap you've all had to put up from me, especially over something that has always been rooted more in the make believe world than in the real world. So I won't keep you in suspense any longer. The following tale is completely fictitious and is only meant to give you an idea of an alternative to the sponsorship concept that some of the brothers use to secure an arrangement with a particular Thai lady that they want to have a girlfriend type relationship with. In order to add a touch of realism to this tale I will use myself and my lady as the main characters ( Fitting word to describe brother Cmore wouldn't you say?  ). However the names will be changed. Cmore is now CM and my lady will be called NA. So without further ado I present: How CM is able to make sure that NA can keep working without having to ever leave with another customer ever again. CM goes to Bangkok on a 2 week vacation and on his first night he goes into a gogo bar and meets NA. The two of them hit it off and CM bar fines NA and she leaves with him ( I'll skip what happens next because I don't want to bore you all by giving specific details. After all, who cares about how to make chocolate covered bananas using edible condoms and flavored lubricants right? ). Two weeks go by and it's now time for CM to go back home, but it seems that CM doesn't really want to go home because he and NA have fallen in love. However they both know that he has to return home so they make plans for his return in 4 months. They exchange phone numbers and emails and they vow to do their best to keep the relationship alive. So CM returns home and NA returns to the bar. During the next 4 months things seem to be going well for them and their relationship continues to grow. CM sends NA as much money as he can to help her out but he knows that he can't afford to send as much as he would like to. Still he does his best and NA appreciates everything he does for her. However she does have bills to pay and a family to help support so even though CM's money helps she has no choice but to continue to work. Now NA is a very independent and hard working person. She spends her money wisely and makes sure to send as much home each month as possible. She doesn't enjoy having to do the things she has to do to make a living. She wishes she could find an employment opportunity outside of the bar scene that would provide her with a better basic wage then she earns at the bar so that she could afford to give up the part she hates the most about working in a bar. Being bar fined by strange men and leaving the bar with them for whatever reason. Meanwhile back in Farangland CM is only one week away from his return back to Bangkok and NA's arms. The last 3.75 months have had there ups and downs between him and NA but for the most part things have been very good. They both want to keep the relationship moving forward, but the main obstacle in the relationship for CM is the bar fining part of her job. He loves NA and naturally he doesn't want his lady leaving the bar with other men, but what can he do. He's just an average working stiff and can't afford to sponsor NA and still be able to pay his own bills and take care of whatever other obligations he has. However he did manage to save up a little extra money during the last 3 months that he thought about sending to NA to help her out, but he thinks he might have thought of a way to use that money to really help NA out by giving her a way to continue to work at the bar, but be able to eliminate the part of the job that they both hate the most. So CM returns to Thailand. The next day after his return ( It took them at least a day to catch up on current events such as the present situation in the middle east. ), after telling NA his idea they go to her bar to discuss the idea with the owner. The owners name is Tom. CM asks Tom to explain the requirements that have to be met in order for NA to earn more then the basic salary ( This next part is completely made up guys. I have absolutely no knowledge of bar salaries and quota requirements. Remember that this is a fictitious conversation. (between CM and Tom, not me and voice number 25 ) ). Tom tells CM that in order for NA to earn the higher salary she has to meet the monthly drink and bar fine quota. The drink quota is15 lady drinks per month and the bar fine quota is 10 bar fines per month. If she meets both of these quotas her monthly salary will be doubled from 3500 baht to 7000 baht. After hearing this CM makes Tom the following offer. CM tells Tom that he doesn't have any doubt that NA can meet the drink quota each month. She's very well liked by not only the customers but the other ladies as well so 15 lady drinks each month should be a piece of cake for NA. That just leaves the bar fine quota. Again CM doesn't have any doubt about NA meeting that quota also, but that's not the problem. The problem is that HE DOESN'T LIKE HIS WOMAN LEAVING THE BAR WITH STRANGE MEN! FOR WHATEVER REASON! So this is what he proposes to Tom. Ten bar fines each month at 500 baht per equals 5000 baht each month. In six months thats 30,000 baht. What if I were to offer to buy out NA's bar fine obligation for those same six months for 20,000 baht to be paid right now in one lump sum. In other words I give you the first 4 months in advance and you throw in the next 2 months for free. This way her bar fine quota has been met for the next six months so all she has to do to get the higher salary each month is come to work on the days she's scheduled and meet the monthly drink quota. What's good about this for NA is that because CM has bought out her bar fine quota obligation in advance for the next six months she no longer has to leave with customers. Period. Yes she would be losing the money they would have agreed to pay her for going with them, but isn't that the whole point. To help her to be able to continue to work and earn her own money instead of having to depend on someone else to pay her way for her. To give her the opportunity to earn a higher salary by only taking care of 1/3 of the requirements that have to be met and letting her take care of the other 2/3's, and the easier 2 out of the 3 at that. This way she learns to appreciate the value of doing an honest days hard work without actually having to work as hard as she normally would. What's good about this for Tom is that even though he loses out on 2 months in bar fines he is getting 4 months worth of bar fines in advance all at one time. 20,000 baht is a lot of money in Thailand. Suppose Tom has been wanting to do some remodeling or repairs at the bar but hasn't been able to put together the money to get started. 20,000 baht may not cover the cost but I'm sure it would get him started at least. Also there's another good thing about this for Tom. During the night as his dancers are being taken away from the bar by midnight he could end up left with very few dancers to put up on stage. However here's a lady who's boyfriend just paid her bar fines for the next 6 months so that she can stay IN the bar instead of leaving the bar ( Except with him of course. ). This way he can at least be sure that when CM's not in town he'll at least have one dancer for sure at closing time. What's good about this for CM is that he'll never again have to worry about his lady leaving the bar with other men ( We're talking about one of those rare Thai ladies here guys. You know, the ones that really want to have a better life and to have a true loving relationship with their boyfriend. Not the ones that have a different boyfriend in every port ). He also is now in a better position to be of further help to his lady. Remember, I never said that just because he couldn't afford to sponsor her doesn't mean that he isn't willing to help her out financially. He is perfectly willing to give her a hand, he just doesn't want it to turn into a handout. Most sponsorships start out at a minimum of 10,000 baht a month and go up from there, but even this is a little too much for him to handle each month. However if she can meet the rest of the requirements needed to bring her salary up to 7000 baht each month then he thinks he can at least manage to match that amount and send her 7000 baht each month. So what's the bottom line here guys? Thanks to CM, NA's monthly income has just gone up from 3500 baht basic salary to 14,000 baht a month. She is still able to work at the bar without the need to leave with customers anymore and risk abuse, disease, or something possibly worse. Tom can make use of that advance bar fine payment for whatever it's needed for. As for CM, well all we can do is hope that he truly has met someone who isn't playing games with him and who truly wants to build a life together with him. If she is one of the rare ones then maybe now they actually have a chance. At least CM has given her a fighting chance. Now he just has to wait and see what she does with it. Okay guys, this concludes our tale. I now turn the floor over to you for debate. However before you put in your 2 cents think carefully about this concept instead of just automatically saying THIS WOULD NEVER WORK or ALL YOU'D BE DOING IS THROWING AWAY MONEY. If you still find flaw with this concept then at least explain those flaws in complete detail. And finally please remember that this has always been considered a what if idea, but here's something to think about. WHAT IF? Peace
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:00 am on Aug. 29, 2002
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MrJoe
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Well my first reaction is; "Well, it's a nice story. Too bad it could only happen in fiction." Sorry bro' but that's still how I see it.
Okay, when you invited people to respond, I'm sure you were hoping against hope that I had lapsed into a coma or been taken prisoner by remnants of the Kmer Rouge or something- but no such luck. I will however try to limit my post to two (long and boring) points. To which;
This "higher salary" you refer to is a mystery to me. Unless things have changed since I was in that business (which they may have) the bar fine was almost entirely for the benefit of the bar. Sure the girl made some money from it too, but more significantly she was penalized by a deduction from her salary if she didn't meet the quota. This was to make sure that the girls were ambitious enough. I have never known a BG to be reliant on the bar fines, or drinks, tips or even the measly salary. All of these sources of income are nice and they will get them through the hard times (low season, etc) but their real income is what they are paid for going with men. THAT is the reality. If you take that away, they are left with an income that does not necessarily exceed ewhat they could make working in some other feild. (A much more unpleasant and less "glamorous" job in a factory or a shop somewhere.)
I DO NOT SEE AN ADVANTAGE to leaving her in the bar other than she doesn't have to make a choice that I think she needs to make. What is her priority? I fully understand that she has obligations and a need to look out for her own best interests. Can she meet those obligations and be your GF - the harsh truth is: maybe not. I have dealt with this myself and "had to" let someone go rather than step up to the plate and really give her a chance to change her life - but SHE was willing to do so even though it would have meant a great reduction in income.
As to the obligations, one of the biggest challenges facing a Thai/Falang couple, I'm sure the brothers will agree, is the difference in perception of obligation to the family. ALL of us have to adjust to some extent. How much of an adjustment may be directly related to how wealthy you are.
I can not afford to be responsible for anyone other than my wife and myself. I help out the in-laws whenever I can but my wife had to realize that I was her new family and that at times she wasn't going to be able to be the good Thai daughter that others told her she should be. I explained to her that the only thing I could promise her parents was that they would never have to worry about theirt daughter again. No matter what, I would always take care of her (and I would provide her with a better life than they could afford to provide her). I would be good to her. THAT is what I do for them (aside from the occasional assistance.) This is the adjustment my wife had to make to be married to an American. (I explained that I came from a wealthy family but since I was 17 I had been supporting myself and I didn't owe my family anything-nor did they owe me. I explained that it is not unusual for an American family to have both wealthy and poor members of the family. I make an effort to be flexible and more generous than I might otherwise be, but that is where I'm coming from.) Some girls can not or will not do that. Their parents will always come first. More power to them. But I will never quite get over my feeling that no daughter should be obligated to prostitute herself just to maintain their parents standard of living. If the parents are starving, OK - but that is rarely the case. All of this may be no problem if you are, as some of the brothers, fairly wealthy by Thai standards. Personally I refuse to take part in what I see as exploitation of their daughter and myself. "Oh now she's got a rich boyfreind/husband- great - now we can get that new TV. Let her deal with her boyfreind's feelings of being used and her guilt over it." I'm not saying the TG has to choose between you and her parents but eventually she does have to decide where her loyalty lies. If she chooses you then you show the appropriate gratitude and appreciation for the rest of your lives.
SORRY TO THOSE WHO ARE BORED WITH THIS BUT CMORE ASKED FOR IT! I HOPE YOU SKIPPED OVER ALL THAT.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 1:27 am on Aug. 29, 2002
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thaiprivateeye
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- Probably in a similar situation myself Mr. Joe - and agree wholeheartedly, I guess a big plus, is not taking on any TG full time until you have been here long enough to understand a bit of their culture / way of thinking -
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 3:28 am on Aug. 29, 2002
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MrJoe
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Have to agree with you on that one TPE.
Understand and ACCEPT the culture as well as accept that there are some things that the couple will NEVER completely agree on. That's where compromise and generosity comes into play - surely necessary ingredients for any succesful realtionship; cross -cultural or not.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:49 am on Aug. 29, 2002
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cmore
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Hey guys, guess I don't have much of a chance of making it as a fiction writer huh? This explains all those rejection letters from Avon books. I would try non fiction, but thanks to Mr. Joe I have given up that idea because my research skills are sorely lacking. I now realize the mistake I made in my concept. I was under the mistaken impression that by meeting certain quotas that the ladies could earn a higher salary. What was pointed out correctly is that they start out at the higher salary and have part of their salary deducted if they don't meet the quotas. So instead of starting at 3500 baht and working up to 6 or 7K baht they may start at 6 or 7K baht and if they don't meet the quotas then their salary could be reduced to 3500 Baht. Sorry for the confusion of facts. However now that we have that confusion sorted out there's no reason why the original concept couldn't still be made possible. Okay, in order for her to keep the higher basic salary she has to meet the bar fine and drink quotas or else she will lose money. Well this actually works out better then the other way because meeting those quotas can be very difficult at times, especially during the low tourist season, so taking care of the harder of the two quotas for her could help her to maintain the higher salary. Of course this would only work as long as she comes to work when she's suppose to and she meets the drink quota, but if she's the rare kind of Thai lady that wants to try and make things better for herself but still needs to work and has a difficult time finding so called legitimate employment outside of the bar scene then this is a way for her to at least be able to continue to work in the bar, maintain her monthly salary, and never have to go with another stranger ever again. To all the newbie brothers who are planning their first trip to LOS it is to you that I offer this small bit of make believe in the hope that maybe someday one of you will think about this concept and even though you are aware of the fact that it probably could never work you still take the time to ask yourself WHAT IF? Please keep in mind that the only possible way such an idea could ever work is with one of those truly rare Thai ladies that really do exist through out Thailand. Finding one of those jems is an almost impossible task, but thanks to information posted on another thread by brother TPE it now looks as if there could be a small ray of hope in that department. In the Falling in Love thread he stated that 5 out of 6 Thai ladies who work in bars were probably not being completely honest with their boyfriends. Brother TPE seems to be a member of that old boys club known as the expat who has been in Thailand for some time and who has many years of experience and knowledge about the Thai way of life so when he quotes facts and figures you can pretty well be sure that he's right on the money. Five out of six. What a relief! I have no actual knowledge of exact figures so I was thinking more in the lines of 9 out of 10. That is great news for those brothers who are going to Thailand with the actual hope of finding his very own Ms. Cmore, or Ms. Z, or Ms. Balls B, or Mrs. Joe, CJE, or TPE because you now have a chance of finding one of them out of every six Thai ladies who work in bars instead of one out of ten. Of course it goes without saying that should you really be interested in a Thai girlfriend type relationship then it would be much better to try and find a regular Thai lady rather then one that works in a bar. However I choose not to judge a person by her place of employment or by the circumstances in which she finds herself so if you make the choice to do your looking in a bar, then more power to you. That's where I found my one in six. Use caution and common sense guys and there's a good chance you may find one of the rare ones who's worthy of putting my concept to the test. And consider the advice offered by our expat brothers because they've already been where you're going. However also keep this in mind. They have a world of knowledge to share with you but their world is rooted in the 20th century. When you get on that plane headed for LOS you'll be taking off in the 21st century. The 21st century is ripe with new ideas and it's up to all our newbie brothers to discover those ideas and put them to the test. After all, if it weren't for new ideas and new ways of thinking you newbie brothers would be driving an Edsel instead of a Corvette, you'd be flying to LOS in a bi plane instead of a 747, and should you decide to spend time with miss right now instead of looking for miss right and you find that when you return home you've brought back an unpleasant souvenir in the form of an STD, just remember that without new ideas you could have ended up dead instead of cured with a simple pill or injection. Enjoy your visit to LOS guys, and should you happen to meet that Thai lady, in a bar or on the street or wherever, that you feel could be your Ms. One out of Six then don't be afraid to ask yourself, WHAT IF she might be the one? WHAT IF there was a way for me to help make things a little better for her? WHAT IF? Peace
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:10 pm on Aug. 30, 2002
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