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Chompoo
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What is the implicit contract when paying a BF in the standard Soi 33 Painter bars?
I would argue that at all gogos in Thailand (and probably beer bars, which I have little experience with) that a BF of a dancer (not a waitress or bartender) is an implicit contract that she will have sex with you. It may be that outside the bar there is some disagreement over the fee, or that one or the other parties turns into an asshole, or that some other unforeseen circumstance arises that cancels the contract, but still the expectation is there.
Is it the same for Soi 33 Painter bars? I know that YMMV (your mileage may vary), but what are the basic parameters?
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:46 pm on Jan. 13, 2003
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haam sup
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"I would argue that at all gogos in Thailand (and probably beer bars, which I have little experience with) that a BF of a dancer (not a waitress or bartender) is an implicit contract that she will have sex with you. It may be that outside the bar there is some disagreement over the fee, or that one or the other parties turns into an asshole, or that some other unforeseen circumstance arises that cancels the contract, but still the expectation is there. "
This is patently untrue. ÝYou pay a BF to the owner of the establishment. Unless the BG is his chattel, i.e., a wholly owned slave, he can not guarantee ANY service will be performed.
By paying a barfine, you are theoretically reimbursing the bar owner for the loss of service of his employee for the remainder of the evening. ÝShe would be perfectly within her right to say 'Bye-bye', and head out with her friends, IF you have not agreed in advance that she would go with you. ÝAnd if she does go with you, you had better have an explicit understanding of just WHAT she is to do, IF you are bent on trying to enforce it, which is not possible, since the agreement constitutes an illegal act, i.e., prostitution.
This kind of discussion is the upshot of an attitude that people can be bought, and is necessary ONLY if you subscribe to that notion. ÝThat there is an understanding between the punter and the girl, BEFORE he agrees to pay the barfine is customary, and largely unspoken. ÝHowever, paying the barfine has no bearing on whether the understanding is maintained, and creates no obligation on the part of the girl being barfined.
Anything else implies slavery.
haam sup
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 5:12 pm on Jan. 13, 2003
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Chompoo
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Haam sup, this is another typically completely ignorant and knee-jerk emotional response on your part. You miss the mark on several counts.
I'm not sure I should respond to this as what you say is so patently ridiculous. But I'm a sucker for preaching the obvious, as I know there are plenty of similarly ignorant people.
First, did you not read my post? Did I say that the bar owners were "guaranteeing" that sex will be performed under all circumstances? That I can literally force the girl to go down on me, once I've paid the BF? That is a horrendous exaggeration of what I've said.
If you BF in a gogo bar it is understood, unless otherwise agreed upon that the girl will go with you for the purposes of having sex. That is a fundamental principle of the Thai sex industry. It is absolutely not okay for the girl to put on her clothes and take off with her friends. If the girl unreasonably refuses to follow through on her end of the bargain, which is to provide sexual services, then the customer has every right to ask for the BF back and no honest bar owner will refuse that. In the case you mentioned that bar owner would probably fire the girl on the spot.
You are one who constantly tries to remind us of the "special" girlfriend experiences these girls are providing. Going into great detail about exactly what sexual services will be performed and at what cost before the BF is paid is completely contradictory to your previously stated views.
This post of yours is so patently absurd that it verges on troll status. I'm annoyed that you would try to take my honest and completely valid question and try to twist it into a rant on sexual slavery and prostitution.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:43 pm on Jan. 13, 2003
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BigDUSA
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I've never been to the Soi 33 bars (those type of places are like garlic to a vampire, cheap charley ) From what I've read the b/f just get's them out the door. Nothing else.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 5:53 pm on Jan. 13, 2003
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Ballsburstin
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Chompoo,
While haam sup has reminded us of the letter of the law on this, I have to agree with you here. The BF constitutes an "implied contract," no matter how unenforcable, in the sex industry in LOS, in that it is the standard way we do business with these ladies. It allows the owners of the estalishments to conduct business in the sex industry without techincally violating the law. After all, the owner isn't selling sex, just your ability to take the girl away from the establishment (and so cover his "loss" in her absence).
The reality is, and every BG knows this, are that BF's are about leaving the club for sexual escapades, dinners, shopping, etc. And if you returned to the bar shortly after and told them you where dissatisfied with services rendered, there is a possiblity you will have your BF refunded or some other adjustment made. After all, they won't want to lose a good customer, especially if you behave with "mariadt dee," the good manner. I doubt they would fire the lady, as things can not work out for all sorts of reasons. If the lady was in the habit of stiffing (no pun intended) the customer on a regular basis, it is doubtful the owner would approve. He wants to make money, and everyone in these joints knows the rules of engagement. That is my direct experience, and I think the experience of nearly everyone on this forum.
Regarding your question about the Soi 33 bars, have never bar fined anyone from there, but did go trolling there with my TGF and my partner in travel in December. Some very nice ladies were hell bent on getting us into their bars with very nice smiles and offers of cheap happy hour beer. Well, we passed, but I didn't see anthing different about these bars from those on Soi Cowboy where my TGF used to work. She didn't see much difference either, and she did know some of the ladies on Soi 33 -- yet another reminder of the very small world they live in, and how easy it is to get nabbed if I "fall off the wagon" 
Hopefully some of the bro's here can help you with some FRs.
- Balls
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 7:13 pm on Jan. 13, 2003
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phiijames
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I agree with Chompoo's analysis of the contract implicit in a gogo barfine. ÝI think if
- you paid a barfine in a gogo,
- you did not agree beforehand that there would be no sex,
- the girl refused to have sex
then you would be entitled to demand your barfine back.
This cuts both ways. Ý These days, when I barfine, most of the time I am not after sex, just a fun time. ÝI feel under an obligation to make it clear to the girls before I pay the barfine that I won't be taking them S/T or L/T, and that although I will give them a tip it would be less than they would get from a S/T or L/T (unless they are going with BigDUSA (just kidding)). ÝSome girls want to maximize their income, so they don't want to be barfined unless they are going to get a S/T or L/T fee.
Back to the original question on Soi 33. ÝI think the implicit contract is that she will spend time with you in a public place until bar closing time. ÝThe only circumstances in which you are entitled to sex is if you explicitly agreed this with the girl before you paid the barfine. ÝI believe one group of bars in Soi 33 has a policy that if the girl explicitly agreed to have sex, and you paid the barfine, and then later she backs out and refuses to have sex, then they will refund your barfine. ÝThere's also an implicit contract that if she does have sex with you, then you will pay her money, even if you didn't negotiate for sex when you paid the barfine.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:19 pm on Jan. 13, 2003
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haam sup
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This is shaping up predictably: there are some who think their money can buy ANYTHING, including other human beings, and to whom life is just a big conquest, where money is the weapon. ÝThey go to great lengths to rationalize their position, but in the end, it is just "I have money. ÝI can buy people, and make them do what I want, and they deserve it because they are inferior."
Life IS cheap in much of the Third World: I can find a couple of guys on a motorcycle who, for surprisingly few baht, will gladly put several bullets into someone I disagree with, BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT. ÝOr does it? ÝIt is a free market, after all...
haam sup
sickened
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:41 pm on Jan. 13, 2003
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Hum
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Chompoo,
When I was last in LOS I found a very beautiful puying in the Office bar at Soi 33. I knew that bar fines were much more expensive than other areas and at the time I thought that it would not include sex, but if we got along may be negotiable. I paid the barfine because I wanted a guide to show me other parts of BKK I had not seen.
She took me to chinatown and we had a wonderful evening sampling different foods, people watching and looking at the shops. After that she wanted me to take her to Patpong. We didn't stay long and I had to fly out early the next morning so I tried to send her home in a taxi - she would have none of that and wanted to come to my room. She spoke pretty good english so after losing that argument I let her come up.
I told her that I had an early flight and I didn't want sex, she told me that she would give me a massage. Well that lasted 30 seconds and she started kissing me and rubbing me. Pretty soon it got hot and heavy she had the biggest nipples I ever saw they were the size of big grapes. After a long while I told her that I had to get some sleep and it would be easier if she left.
She kept refusing any money, but I finally prevailed and told her to buy something nice for her daughter.
This girl was sweet and beautiful and was not doing it for the money. The barfine was 1000 baht and I think they are more picky about hitting it off with a customer before they will leave with you. In this case I certainly did not expect sex and I almost think in that case it was not implied, but as I said we got along so well. Not sure how others are on Soi 33 but this really was a lot more of a girlfriend type experience.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:45 pm on Jan. 13, 2003
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Chompoo
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I agree, in general, that on Soi 33, sex is not implied just by the BF. That seems to have always been the case.
I'm not sure if the bars have changed over the last few years or my knowledge and perception of them has, but it seems the Painter bars are more openly (and immediately) P4P than they have in the past.
The thing I'm still struggling with is the general expectation level and the best way to play it. Frankly, while many of the girls are nice, the majority are not so fantastic that I would choose to go out to wine and dine them if the chances of taking them to bed later was slim; not when there are so many other better alternatives. I don't want to negotiate sex up front (and I know they don't either), but I also don't want to go through a ridiculous fake courtship with empty promises.
If I'm not going to get laid, I might as well go to Orbit where I can drink, dance, and dine with a good looking girl and give her the 1000B directly instead.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 7:49 pm on Jan. 13, 2003
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Chompoo
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This is shaping up predictably: there are some who think their money can buy ANYTHING, including other human beings, and to whom life is just a big conquest, where money is the weapon. ÝThey go to great lengths to rationalize their position, but in the end, it is just "I have money. ÝI can buy people, and make them do what I want, and they deserve it because they are inferior."
Life IS cheap in much of the Third World: I can find a couple of guys on a motorcycle who, for surprisingly few baht, will gladly put several bullets into someone I disagree with, BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT. ÝOr does it? ÝIt is a free market, after all...
Haam sup, to be blunt you are either an idiot or a troll (which I'm not sure are different things). You are certainly also a hypocrite.
First, a sufficient amount of money can buy just about anything, that is reality. Get used to it. However, no one has ever said anything close to what you've stated: i.e. that if you can buy it, it makes it right.
Second, why do you find it so sickening that I want to buy what so many women in Thailand are so freely selling? Note that I have never at any point said that I want to walk up to a random girl on the street and start offering her increasing amounts of money until she sleeps with me.
Finally, how do you reconcile your apparent distaste of prostitution with your own history? Is it because you truly love each bargirl you f_ck and that you contemplate her special unique inner beauty while she is going down on you? She truly understands and cares for you and offers herself freely, so it is not really prostitution? The 2000B you give her I suppose is just for taxi money?
Hypocrite. Idiot. Troll.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:00 pm on Jan. 13, 2003
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