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erikE
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Quote: from Joe Wood on 3:30 am on June 18, 2006
And if Big Brother over-steps the mark, we generally bring him down.
Do we? It's hard to see that we have, watching the development, mostly technology driven, the last 10 years.
If I should take Daffy Duck's arguments to the extreme, he say that it would be perfectly OK for a MTV camera team to set up a programme called "This week we will follow Daffy Duck 24 h a day in any public place".
I'm perfectly happy about the current situation, as long as they do not set up a camera in SoL. Maybe in a year or two, that will happen.
This is currently not about paranoia. But who knows in ten years?
In my country, Norway, most of these cameras would be illegal, all of them without a blessing from the government. And that is for a reason.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:00 pm on June 18, 2006
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Will Smith
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Quote: from erikE on 2:01 am on June 19, 2006
This is currently not about paranoia. But who knows in ten years?
In my country, Norway, most of these cameras would be illegal, all of them without a blessing from the government. And that is for a reason.
Yes, the reason being all the govenrment play away from home and dont want to be found with thier pants round thier ankles and a pair of lips round thier cock!!
And anyway, Norway is one of the most boring places in the world, so no bugger would watch anyway!
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 4:11 pm on June 18, 2006
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DaffyDuck
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Quote: from erikE on 2:01 am on June 19, 2006
Do we? It's hard to see that we have, watching the development, mostly technology driven, the last 10 years.
Interesting way to deter from the original argument (big brother) by referencing an issue that has nothing to do with it (technology).
BB uses technology in efforts to erode privacy, but technological developments are not the reason behind it, just as technological development has little to do with taking down BB when he oversteps boundaries -- and, for the record, BB is commonly and frequently rebuffed when this happens.
Quote: from erikE on 2:01 am on June 19, 2006
If I should take Daffy Duck's arguments to the extreme, he say that it would be perfectly OK for a MTV camera team to set up a programme called "This week we will follow Daffy Duck 24 h a day in any public place".
a) *IF I GAVE PERMISSION* I wouldn't really care, as it would be mor to your detriment, for watching, than for mine, for having my life exposed. Probably would get extremely high ratings both for entertainment and educational values...
b) The key is, if you make a PERSON the center of your show, you MUST get permission (if it's in a public place, or not) for that, while you do not need a release and permission if you take a picture of a place (say, Soi Cowboy). Clearly, you haven't really looked at the issues, to understand that your PERSON is afforded certain protections, though showing me (and hundreds other) walking about a place like Soi Cowboy) is fair game. (I'm talking about US, and most Western jurisdictions, and the final destination of the video is the operative case, here). A Thai camera crew could probably get away with it, and I would probably not care much.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:58 pm on June 18, 2006
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poskat
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Quote: from DaffyDuck on 7:06 am on June 18, 2006
Uhm... yeah, but usually most of these guys' wives and girlfriends aren't in that bar...
Uhmmm.....yeah, nor are they looking at the Mai Thai Bar website. If a guy is stupid enough to have them know about this site and goes to the bar he deserves what he gets.
The "Big Brother" arguement here is a red herring anyway since this cam is in a public business, to give it's patrons around the world acess to it and not to get any surrepticious info on patrons actions. The cam is also set up so to only show a portion of the bar so that any who don't care to be seen don't have to be.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 10:21 am on June 19, 2006
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Kaymanx
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Interesting discussion. I have my doubts on making an issue of morality, or of feeling guilty, or of wanting to hide your actions. My take is, what's wrong with not wanting to be seen ? People have different values. What's moral for you may not be for me. What's immoral for you may be perfectly okay with me. Some guys may find it convenient to be honest in certain situations which others may find inconvenient. Maybe I want to hide, but the important thing to respect is I have a right to hide and do my thing privately if I wish not to be seen. Maybe our cultures are different. Some cultures are open about some issues but not about certain other issues. Other cultures are open about some issues you are not comfortable with. I just do not have a right to impose my culturally influenced freedoms on other people just because I think it is okay. (I sense we will head into a global war on this issue). I may be fine with being photographed kissing a bargirl but if my companion is not I would desisit from taking that picture.
I would also take issue with the argument that you cannot expect privacy if you are in a public place. Let's look at that in another light. A beach is a public place. Your wife or GF is sunbathing there. Along comes a guy and starts clicking pictures of her in several poses. You don't mind that ? Or do you ask him what he is up to ? And, let's say he replies, "this is a public place so it's none of your business what I do with my camera." It's not on, right ?
The issue is not as much one of expecting privacy in a public place as of expecting one's personal rights to be respected by others. Very simply, I don't have a right to take your picture without your permission. I am aware though that I would myself violate this line of argument if I were to see a very famous person in a restaurant or on the road. I would shoot first then ask !
Specific to this thread and the issue of webcams or other broadcasting devices I would argue that just because I carry a mobile phone with a camera doesn't give me a right to take pictures of whoever or whatever or wherever even in a public place. I may get away with it but if I know that I would leave the other person feeling annoyed or disagreeable, I wouldn't do it.
The decent thing to do is to put up a sign that this bar is on continuous webcast. Some shops and public parks, for example, have signs that say the place is under video surveillance.That is effective in pre-empting any mischief by mongers but it is also a polite notice to everyone. Then on it is the individual's choice. So long as MTB has an easily visible notice at the entrance informing patrons of the webcast I have no issue with it.
As for the argument that technology is now so advanced and getting increasingly miniaturised and mobile, it is practical to be cautious but it is not an excuse to intrude. Let's not forget that most bars prohibit cameras on their premises. That says something definitive about this issue.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:47 pm on June 19, 2006
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BigDUSA
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Any bar that has a web cam installed is a bar I won't patronize. I go into a bar to drink and have fun not have my faces plastered all over the internet. Now that almost everyone has a camera enabled phone, I've changed my public behavior in bars.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:05 pm on June 19, 2006
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erikE
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Surprisingly refreshing discussion about this topic.
I will try to make my point a bit more clear:
There are currently millions of webcams all around the world (a number drawn out of the hat), most of them low-rez due to bad equipment.
But the current availability of cheap cameras and high bandwith, leads to the inevitable:
More and more public places will be covered with cameras broadcasting 24h/7 days. If the public crowd accept one camera in a bar somewhere in Phuket, and the government do not do a shit about it, that is the same as saying it is also OK to put up a webcam in any McDonald resturant in the world.
Altough I'm not embarassed to eat a Big Mac or drink a Singha at any bar, I really prefer to do it without the world watching.
And when, if let's say ten years, most of the world is covered, who knows, maybe someone will organize this material and use it for more or less informative tasks. Tracking terrorists is a good thing. I guess Google would jump on the wagon: Google Facetracker, "find John Doe in under 100 ms".
I will not buy arguments that this is impossible. It is possible if we let it happen.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:18 pm on June 19, 2006
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DaffyDuck
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Quote: from erikE on 4:19 am on June 20, 2006
Altough I'm not embarassed to eat a Big Mac or drink a Singha at any bar, I really prefer to do it without the world watching.
Interesting, and I can understand personal preference, but, why? Honestly, if the world gets a kick out of watching me a Big mac, more power to them - I pity them for being that bored, though, but whatever...
Facts is, one way or the other, your face is almost constantly, 24/7, on a camera of sorts, either closed circuit, webcam, or recording. Heck, I usually get a kick out of spotting the camera in an elevator, only to wink at it, when a TG/BG gets frisky 
Quote: from erikE on 4:19 am on June 20, 2006
I guess Google would jump on the wagon: Google Facetracker, "find John Doe in under 100 ms".
In fact, that's exactly what they are working on, and it's a good thing.
Quote: from erikE on 4:19 am on June 20, 2006
I will not buy arguments that this is impossible. It is possible if we let it happen.
Agreed, and I believe that letting it happen is a good thing, as more good things are bound to come from it, than possible hypothetical bad things.
In my opinion, of course.
Quote: from Kaymanx on 2:49 am on June 20, 2006
Interesting discussion. I have my doubts on making an issue of morality, or of feeling guilty, or of wanting to hide your actions. My take is, what's wrong with not wanting to be seen ? People have different values. What's moral for you may not be for me. What's immoral for you may be perfectly okay with me. Some guys may find it convenient to be honest in certain situations which others may find inconvenient. Maybe I want to hide, but the important thing to respect is I have a right to hide and do my thing privately if I wish not to be seen.
I don't think it's an issue of cultures - I understand the need for privacy, but I also understand that it is, in the end, my responsibility (not my right) to assure my privacy.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:58 pm on June 19, 2006
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PhuketBlue
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Quote: from Kaymanx on 2:49 am on June 20, 2006
Not sure about that Kaymanx.
Sure I would be pissed off if someone was taking photos of my wife on the beach but that would be because he was focusing on her. If he happened to just be taking general beach shots that included my wife amongst many others, then it wouldn't concern me.
The webcam isn't focusing on individuals though, it's just relaying pictures from a bar and unless the Mai Thai bar's webcam has dramatically improved in quality, I very much doubt that my wife would recognize me even if she could find the website.
I think as long as it is made clear that the bar has a webcam, then you make your own choice.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 6:08 pm on June 19, 2006
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Kaymanx
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PhuketBlue
Good point there. I did look at the site after making my post and was pretty disillusioned -- pun intended. For one thing, movements are jerky and then there were 2 guys at a table who could hardly be recognised. So, yes, wives won't be able to recognise their dogs have been straying from the leash.
My point about wife-on-the-beach-in-the-eye-of-camera was intended to caution against taking too literally the argument that you must not expect privacy in a public place. Sure, a guy walking down Soi Cowboy cannot expect not to be photographed (a point well made by Daffy) but at the same time there is a line that is drawn somewhere. If the photographer comes right up and takes a face shot I have a right to tell him off.
At the same time, an argument that the webcam shots are not clear, will not wash with me when it comes to entering a bar. A bar -- despite being a so-called public place -- remains in spirit (oh oh pun again) a private place. Especially in Bangkok, where as we all know common inhibitions are dropped. Even the tough man stumbles here and you have the devil standing next to you every moment.
This is the thrill of the LOS experience. Flirting with the devil. I also find it exhilarating and therapeutic. But the thought of a webcam or other hidden spyware does certainly act as spoiler. No way, I think it's a poor marketing idea to have a webcam in a bar. But, of course, it's their business and it's upto customers to choose so long as the notice is easily visible.
As for me I would steer clear of any place that I know snoops, openly or slyly. Now since some bros have raised the possibility of cams hidden behind mirrors in MPs, that's another threat to keep in mind. Sure, many believe in braving these gadgets and winking at the camera. Good for them. They are well placed to take it in their stride. Many others can't. So they gotta play it safe in order to protect a good thing.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:46 am on June 20, 2006
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