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fastmover
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Chompoo.."Your statement assumes that the traditional view of a marriage and family is the only correct one."
Well it is if you want to be sure your kids are really yours.
Arcadius...."A new deal is long overdue."
Sure, a new deal for women who are expected to be chaste and virtuous for men while men sow seeds elsewhere.
The BS put forth about liberty for men really only means the freedom to f_ck. They control everything else anyway.
That is always the deal breaker for men...reciprocal f_ck rights for women, wives and mothers. I mean fair is fair.
You can strike your own deal and gain a sense of liberty quite easily, you don't need a movement. Just take the first step.
When you get down on one knee to ask for the ladies hand in marriage just add, "and I expect to f_ck around without any restrictions. Will you marry me?"
Eventually after a series of guys ask her the same way, she might realize,"Hey, it is better than nothing."
You think?
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:17 am on April 22, 2004
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Arcadius
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That is always the deal breaker for men...reciprocal f_ck rights for women, wives and mothers. I mean fair is fair
Of course. However, so far as I am aware, no such deal has been put on the table. Women are generally staunch defenders of the status quo, and men (by which I really mean male opinion-formers at this stage) have been too timid to challenge it in theory, however ready they may be to treat it with contempt in practice.
Men who claim the right to play around themselves while denying their wives/GFs similar liberty are clearly maintaining an untenable position. When you drive issues underground, absurdities which could not possibly withstand serious public debate tend to multiply.
Male/female relations in the West are an utter mess. Mutual dissatisfaction and antagonism are acute; the divorce rate is atrocious. In general, this is a function of piling hopelessly unrealistic expectations (some of them new, some of them ancient) on relationships which are too fragile to bear them.
What is marriage FOR exactly? To provide a stable environment for the raising of children. Everything else is subsidiary. It is a matter of simple observation that the institution is now failing miserably in this primary function in the West, and the situation is not getting any better.
Ergo, it needs reformation and sooner or later (probably later given conservative mulishness), it will get it. Men and women need to renegotiate what they REALLY need from each other and what they're REALLY prepared to commit to each other in modern social conditions. Bundles of obligations inherited from antiquity need to be picked apart and re-examined for their contemporary relevance.
I'm a great believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", but this IS broke. Badly. Blithely referring people to Little House on the Prairie is not going to help put the show back on the road.
I see no reason why committing to building a life and family with a particular woman must also mean that you commit to having sex with no-one else but her. To my mind this a complete non sequitur
Wanna tackle that? I mean, can you supply the missing logical link? Can anyone? Or is this just some unchallengeable God-given axiom?
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 2:40 am on April 22, 2004
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fastmover
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Arcadius..."What is marriage FOR exactly?"
Well it is for the domination of a woman so that she is denied access to other men, because men's egos and sense that his children should have a 'good' mother is a survival instinct.
Damn you should know that.
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"I see no reason why committing to building a life and family with a particular woman must also mean that you commit to having sex with no-one else but her. To my mind this a complete non sequitur
Wanna tackle that? I mean, can you supply the missing logical link? Can anyone? Or is this just some unchallengeable God-given axiom?"
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Sure it's easy. Men gather together in thought and action and create laws and customs that protect the wives each of them have...from each other.
It is in fact the men who build their own prison of conduct and socially accepted behaviour. You are not following women's rules, but rules designed by your fellow man.
The freedom you give to another man to act as he wishes in his marriage may mean he might sexually 'hunt' your wife.
The "...reason why committing to building a life and family with a particular woman must also mean that you commit to having sex with no-one else but her.." is because you and every guy wants some kind of protection from having his wife and family carried off to some other guys cave.
Civilization isn't always the natural thing to do, but the way it is now we have more time for f_cking and spend less time fighting over women.
We are what we are, not what we want to be, because we really do not want to be what we really are.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:41 am on April 22, 2004
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Arcadius
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Men gather together in thought and action and create laws and customs that protect the wives each of them have...from each other
That's not logic, merely politics.
You're right that the rules were made by men, though. In our own tradition, by men who were generally celibate themselves and whose fear and suspicion of sex was bizarre in the extreme. We've been trying to shed this neurotic nonsense for over four decades now, but so far have just created even more of a mess. As the old rulebook has lost much of its authority and won't regain it, we're not left with much more tha an unhappy sauve qui peut anarchy, and tatters of tradition which half the population openly or tacitly repudiates. That's why I say it's high time a new deal was cut.
Raiding other people's wives? Faute de mieux, perhaps. I suspect the incidence of this is LOS is pretty small, as men obviously have far less disruptive (as well as more congenial) outlets for sexual release. Women might too before long - at any event, one of the fastest growth areas in Thai P4P seems to be in male prostitution aimed at the hetero market.
There's stuff the West might look at seriously here, if it cared to acknowledge its own plight and take other cultures seriously for once. As things stand, it's LOS which is deemed to have the 'problem.' Ha.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 9:30 am on April 22, 2004
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fastmover
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A..."That's not logic, merely politics."
Politics is logic gone mad, so mad it seems to be even more logical and becomes belief, or worse, a reservoir for truth.
Men create the facade of keeping their women safe from other men and then proceed to leave the home to hunt for other women. Just stretching their legs they say.
You cannot expect hundreds of decades of the concept of marriage, which is common through all cultures in one form or another, to suddenly be reformed because intellectual elitists wanna get laid free from guilt and moral obligation.
Personally I do not think there ever will be a new deal, universally. For my own life I am lucky to have found perfection and freedom, but I took a long time to do it.
As you say, women are now in the process of catching up, and that is where the change will come. Here in China that process is already outstripping the societies ability to report it let alone understand it.
LOS as again you indicate, seems to be a problem area when the rose coloured glasses are put on, but I agree that the answer to marriage and family is more Thai in reflection than Yank, Brit, or EU in intention.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 11:37 am on April 22, 2004
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Arcadius
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Well, of course marriage - loosely defined as mating and child-rearing - is common to all cultures. However, the prevailing Western concept of marriage most certainly isn't, especially in its sexual aspects. Nor is the rather wider Western concept of serial monogamy. Even in the West's own tradition, you only have go back to classical times to find a very different dispensation. Yer average Greek or Roman was seldom a monogamist and didn't find it necessary to pretend otherwise.
I'm not looking for a universal deal. I'm suggesting that the West has some serious rethinking to do, as its largely inherited ideas about love, sex and marriage are now proving seriously dysfunctional. Other cultures may have their own problems to sort out in this area, but that's their business.
I think you'll find that 'intellectual elitists' were actually responsible for imposing the guilt and moral obligation of which you so confidently speak. I, for one, don't feel the first or recognise the second. When I want some bunch of ancient Near Eastern scribes (or their contemporary cheerleaders) to lecture me about the circumstances in which I may or may not get laid, I'll ask them.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:55 pm on April 22, 2004
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samthedog
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ehem
Great debate............... (I think?)
Back to the point!
Is he a loser?? Not so sure! Depends on his choice!
Am I a loser?? Dont think so! I am divorced, but happier for it. Boys, my kids are all grown up. I now live in Thailand.
I now pay THB 9,000 a month for a live-in maid. I think I used to pay MUCH, MUCH more for a farang wife!!
The maid works 5 nights, 6 days a week. She goes home early on Saturday when she has finished.
She cooks, cleans, picks up off the floor and washes all my clothes every day, runs errends, stocks the fridge with food, goodies and beer. There is breakfast on the table every morning. There is dinner on the table every night if I want (if I am not out or away)
She is shy, lovely, speaks little english, and I have NEVER touched her! - why spoil a very good thing!
If I want anything else, it is right on the doorstep - either a massage or the real Thai GFE...... You all know what I mean....
I consider myself a winner?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:04 pm on April 22, 2004
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Arcadius
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Well let's be fair, Sam.
That henpecked guy, glumly mowing his suburban lawn on a Sunday afternoon and wondering where the hell his life went - he has to have something. Getting to think a guy like you is a loser may be a necessary comfort.
You can give him that much.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:24 pm on April 22, 2004
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fastmover
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The assumption is that these 'loser' guys are princes, perfection, and ideal examples of manhood, before they get married, and then are henpecked to death or challenged in some way that makes them bolt out of the family honour scene.
There are however a lot of guys who are born jerks, grow up to be adult jerks and 'some', (lest I get assaulted) women are stunned to find out that their judgement of the kind of man they married was so faulty.
Perhaps a guy has a right to be a jerk. Some guys are good at disturbing the status quo so that people react as if he is a jerk. The man in question in England, now LOS, might be a great guy, a loving man, and fulfill all the requirements for of the type of life he now leads.
Which would mean that he wasn't a jerk or loser in the first place. He just got his life direction wrong. He like most of us at a young age, got the traditional marriage/babies/job/responsibility road map and that's it.
It isn't till later, we find out, "Damn, you mean there is 'another' map!"
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 11:45 pm on April 22, 2004
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Abrak
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What is marriage for?
Well I like the Jerry Hall quote...
My mother said it was simple
to keep a man; you must be
a maid in the living room, a
cook in the kitchen, and
a whore in the bedroom.
I said I'd hire the other two and
take care of the bedroom bit.
And in LOS it seems sensible to hire all three!!
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:57 pm on April 22, 2004
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