| |
DaffyDuck
|
First of all, I'd like to applaud ThaidUp for pointing out the obvious and saying what needs to be said, w/regards to how and in what manner women are forced to do things against their wills, in the name of dirty, vile, dehumanizing, and abusinve religions. Bravo!
That being said...
Quote: from JackRabbit on 11:27 am on June 30, 2006
Great DD, great !
Being paid of being filmed and doing the things in those films.
Slow sometimes, are we ?
Not sure if I am the slow one, considering that one of the questions in this thread is what is the difference between a girl being asked to do these things in private, for a monger, who pays far less, versus doing the same things for Nigel, on camera, and being paid 10-15,000 baht for her 2 hours (if they even take that long). Honestly, I see no difference, particularly if we consider some of the FRs on this forum, where some members brag about similar humiliating treatments of some of these girls. Doing such acts as defecating on girls, pissing in their mouths, tieing them up, etc... is somewhat more acceptable in your world, when done in private, or am I missing something here..?
Quote: from Baskoy on 8:26 pm on June 29, 2006
This is a quote from another well known thread by a member who was taking the moral highground previously in this thread (...) In this he's chatting light heartedly about the reason a girl stopped mid blow.
This is the hypocrisy I'm talking about...
Kudos for tracking that down, and you are correct in that this kind of double-faced view on things is quite hypocritical. This is further exacerbated by the majority of mongers claiming how these girls all enjoy anal (they do not), how they all enjoy their (and only their) dicks, and the dedication and joy these girls get from sucking cock (not quite), and particularly some that appear to enjoy forcing girls to suck their cocks, even if the girls initially decline. Hypocrites? Yeah, I think so.
It kinda amazes me that apparently the common sense rule of "When a woman says 'no' it means 'no ", appears to be okay to ignore once certain feet hit Thai soil. I guess it proves some folks how 'manly' and 'masculine' they are - yeah, that's what it must be...
Quote: from seajohn on 8:27 pm on June 29, 2006
I thought that I was more expressing my reaction to what I've seen of the Nigel films, rather than taking a moral high ground. But if my strong distaste has led me into such an undefendable position then of course it is my own gaff; I withdraw and tip my sword to you sir.
Seajohn, kudos for fessing up to it, and you are correct that the issues are complex, and not as simplistically b&w as Mel Gibson wants them to be -- nevertheless, I am somewhat perplexed how you can refere to a 'whimsical' moment, that appears to mirror what Nigel does, yet condemn Nigel's work - maybe your camera work would be better, or maybe you're more of a stud  -- but neither distracts from the fact that both actions appear to be nearly identical.
Quote: from Mel Gibson on 10:17 am on June 30, 2006
Human nature and peoples ability to continually attempt to turn "black and white " into grey never ceases to amaze me.
Nigels films are dirty,vile, degrading, humiliating, disgusting and ILLEGAL !!!,,,, no grey, just,"black and white",fuken wrong.
I have read as others say but it's only a bit more than so and so or is it any worse than so and so,, I DON"T care,, its WRONG and it needs to be stopped.
You stress the fact that what Nigel does is illegal, well, to a certain degree, so is prostitution in Thailand, and unless you are willing to lie and claim that you have neve solicited and paid for sex in Thailand, you are just as guilty of breaking the law, as Nigel is. Would you please turn yourself in immediately to your local police station, in order to correct your grave moral grievance, please?
Honestly, if you attempt to make it a black and white issue, you only end up on the black part.
In all fairness, though, the prostitution and prevention act of 1996 is not ver black and white itself in either the definition of 'prostitution' or the definition of what exactly constitutes as 'illegal'
(what follows, I quoted from another site)
Section 5. Any person who, for the purpose of prostitution, solicits, induces, introduces herself or himself to, follows or importunes a person in a street, public place or any other place, which is committed openly and shamelessly or causes nuisance to the public, shall be liable to a fine not exceeding one thousand Baht.
But it seems the offense must be committed "openly and shamelessly or a nuisance to the public" I would assume it would be hard to prosecute someone who does this privately with a bargirl in a privately owned bar, as opposed to yelling the offer on the street.
The definition of prostitution is also interesting:
"prostitution" means sexual intercourse, or any other act, or the commission of any other act in order to gratify the sexual desire of another person in a promiscuous manner (my emphasis) in return for earning or any other benefit...
It does not define "promiscuous manner" and the fine is very small with no jail time option.
(end quote)
One could add that what Nigel does qualifies as 'promiscuous manner', while what you do in private does not - nevertheless, I doubt there is much difference in what you (Mel) do with girls you take out of the bar, and what Nigel does (safe the camera)
Quote: from Mel Gibson on 10:17 am on June 30, 2006
I leave it, to the Thai authorities to decide, surely no one will argue with their rights to judge said material and enforce the laws of their own country.
Correct - and considering they know fully well what Nigel does, and who he is, as you can tell, they are doing absolutely nothing (though I heard Nigel got in trouble recently for overstepping a sensitive boundary).
Quote: from Mel Gibson on 10:17 am on June 30, 2006
For Nigels supporters please visit him and his group regularly as their stay, fully paid for by the Thai authorities, will be a very long and uncomfortable one.
THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN SOMEWHERE.
Here's where you go off the deep end, and engage in a flirtation with personal stupidity (essentially, I'm saying you're being an idiot for your final point).
Just because people are unwilling to paint with your broad brush, and wear your blindfold, and does not mean they condone what Nigel does, or are even supporters of his -- thinking and alluding so, really only delegitimizes your entire argument, and robs you of any credibility on that issue. Essentially, you just became a petulant 12-year old, not getting his way. Hardly a mature argument.
|
Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:09 am on June 30, 2006
|
|
DaffyDuck
|
Mel, it's unfortunate that you apparently have now gone off the deep end, wayyyyyy off the deep end....
Quote: from Mel Gibson on 12:49 pm on June 30, 2006
Finchy,, You have accused me of an un-lawful act,, please document your EVIDENCE of said crimes as they will probably be required at the "Defamation hearing"
You've just provided sufficient circumstantial and character evidence - anyone hiding behind the "Do you have proof" argument is, essentially, a moron that's guilty as sin.
Quote: from Mel Gibson on 12:49 pm on June 30, 2006
More rediculous statements by you "The truth is he does not physically hurt the girls",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, so you where present at each and every encounter??? or just more bull-shit to justify your opinion?
Likewise, were you present at ANY of these encounters to verify that he does, indeed, hurt these girls. All you need is ONE instance for proof, but I doubt very much you can supply that.
Oh, the movies depict the harm being done? Superman's coming out, so you believe a man can fly, as well?
Quote: from Mel Gibson on 12:49 pm on June 30, 2006
The right people may well have been paid,, but now the right people ( very high in the food chain) have been contacted to ensure these people get what is coming to them.
Probably not a bad move, and it will be interesting to see what happens next - thanks for stepping up to the plate, for letting us know who the snitch was (disclaimer - I originally called for such early in this thread).
Quote: from Mel Gibson on 12:49 pm on June 30, 2006
Thaidup,,, victimless crimes??? WTF,, the victims are in the films,, and Thai society is also a victim.
Yawn!
Quote: from Mel Gibson on 12:49 pm on June 30, 2006
As for women in black muslim suits, I agree it is disgusting and I fully support any action taken against it ( i.e Aus troops in Iraq and Afganistan).
Could you explain to me how Western troops in Iraq and Afghanistan will work towards alleviating these women's plights?
Quote: from Mel Gibson on 12:49 pm on June 30, 2006
Prime agenda of religion is to restrict personal freedoms WTF, I actually thought religions primary agenda was to encourage faith ??? I must have missed the vital peices you got.
Alright, any doubt of you being a total moron has just been erased. Pity, I thought you had some worthwhile contributions in the past.
Quote: from Mel Gibson on 12:49 pm on June 30, 2006
We can go on with this forever, but I doubt people will change their stance on the subject. It is of little consequence as Nigel and his compatriots will soon be licking sticky rice off a Thai gaol floor.
Enjoy your next RT, as I'm sure people will be interested in who the party responsible for Nigel's imprisonment, is.
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 12:28 am on June 30, 2006
|
|
JackRabbit
|
JackRabbit present...
DD, I do barfine girls or going with freelancers when in LOS, yes.
We go eating, cabarets, have drinks before going back.
Yep, I pay like most of us.
A big point is your note about doing SAME things for monger AS for Nigel.
I do not shit or piss on them or humiliating them like those db's do.
I try to treat them as females are supposed to be treated.
We both know that human can be driven to do things he / she finds disgusting by paying a huge amount of money.
I do not do that either.
And yep, I find my doings more acceptable.
JR
|
Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:43 am on June 30, 2006
|
|
Mel Gibson
|
DD thanks for your info,, by the way calling me a moron is unjustified. Evidence is the key to all legal problems,, just sayinmg " AHHHH he did it" just doesn't cut it.
I need NO evidence as to HE DID hurt them as I was NOT stating he did,, rather asking for justification when a member states" that he never hurts them".
DD if I have strong feelings on a subject I have no problem "stepping up to the plate", and you call this "snitching",, I call it getting justice.
DD,, re Afghanistan,, there have been major improvements already,,, Husbandless women are NO LONGER hung at the football stadium for working. You really need to do a bit more home work here,,, even a 12 year old knows such things.
I most certainly will enjoy my next RT and if you like I will wear a I GOT THAT NIGEL T-shirt,,, if members don't like it so be it, if they have a problem with me I am more than happy to discuss it.
I hardly expect people that want everything to be greyed out to accept a line,,, I can here them now,, but how wide is that line,, but the line was red last time,, that line is not straight,, the line looks different through my eyes, I didn't know about the line, I thought the line was for other people not me,, my mate crossed the line so I can too etc etc etc.
DD I admit my enthusiasm to see justice done in this case is very strong, call it what you like, attack me as you like but I at least have the fortitude to stand up for what I believe in.
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 1:05 am on June 30, 2006
|
|
Yurune
|
For people who are repulsed and horrified by such websites....y'all seem to have spent on hell of a lot of time looking at them.
For the record, porn doesn't interest me, wouldn't waste my time looking....
Mel...you are my new hero...maybe you could read the field reports on here and highlight a few more people to walk the plank..... (i'll give you some suggestions if you like)
This is gonna be fun.
|
Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 1:26 am on June 30, 2006
|
|
ThaidUp
|
Hey Mel maybe you can also enlist the help of Mildred and Archie. Just another chest pounding attempt to show off... look at the Thai connections I got. Like I said before most of the upper echelons of Thai's could give a rat's ass about Nigel's "victims"
Fun? About as fun as watching grass grow. Six months from now, Nigel will still be getting shit on (Maybe that's not a bad thing) unless he dies from some STD first.
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:45 am on June 30, 2006
|
|
seajohn
|
Quote: from DaffyDuck on 1:11 pm on June 30, 2006
I am somewhat perplexed how you can refere to a 'whimsical' moment, that appears to mirror what Nigel does, yet condemn Nigel's work - maybe your camera work would be better, or maybe you're more of a stud -- but neither distracts from the fact that both actions appear to be nearly identical.
First of all, thank you for addressing me, DaffyDuck, and referring to my quote again. Thank you also for your kudos for my withdrawing from, what is for me (though it may not be for others) an indefensible position which I did not intend to occupy, and would not occupy if my disgust had not led me to it in the momentum of my expression. I do not like arguments and I believe I have attempted to do the gentlemanly thing at this point.
Actually I hope I have answered already what you say somewhat perplexes you: in my last post I said that a third party cannot experience the subjectivity of the ones participating in something.
This means three things to me:
one) I don't know what really goes on in the Nigel films and you don't know what really goes on with me in SOL, or either one, regardless of his films or my posts.
two) even if our respective acts resemble each other (I don't think so but you may) they are entirely different experiences to each of us personally, and neither I nor Nigel has much to do with each other beyond the most basic mechanical activity, such as we both breathe oxygen and we both get blowjobs with hired girls.
three) a sad problem with General Morality, though necessary to civilization, is that it cannot consider the individual. It is strange indeed then that humans so often translate their individual feelings into General Morality... My disgust say with those films prompting me hate Nigel... Someone else's disgust at the Iraq war prompting them to hate Americans... Another's disgust with their failed marriage prompting them to hate Western women... on and on in our history...
It was my recalling of these perspectives that prompted me to withdraw my attacks. And I don't have enough information anyway, as I admitted, nor do I want to have more. So I am satisfied to say I don't like what I've seen over here, but over there I do.
Personally, because of the above view and my own behavior, I wouldn't like to go so far as to call the variety of contradictory views that a person may have at different times in different situations "hypocrisy". This is because I believe that we all have contradictory views and do contradictory things, especially in the realm of sexuality, a blind instinct which must conform to the mandates of society, societal relations and a society's religion if one is to remain at liberty. So we are all either hypocrites, civilized men, or... contradictoriness is part of human nature.
Perhaps even the Hairy Ape Man's...
For example, I believe that if someone was not really satisfied just quoting a portion of any post of mine, and instead embarked on a courageous and extraordinary mission to somehow reveal my mind, decided to read every post I've made on BTF (a task which I recommend especially for liver ailments!), they'd find sarcasm, conscientiousness, flippancy, lechery, pity, and compassion all laying down together like little puppies sucking at their mother's teats. Yes, there may be a runt in there called MoralHighGround as well. I don't know if he is a bastard, but to be honest I do know that he does manage to push his way through his betters and get a mouthful of my attention once in while. Thus myself, a man alive balancing the various passions within him.
So I have folded my hand in this thread of conversation; I never expected it to go on so long! Rest assured, I do not think you are trying to take a moral high ground against my moral high ground. That would not be a fruitful activity and I'm sure you recognize it. I hope I have answered your question above thoroughly enough. This represents what I have learned so far from this thread--and really, what's the point of communicating if one can't learn about life and human nature?
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:01 am on June 30, 2006
|
|
Finchy
|
Mel Gibson, calm down. Document my EVIDENCE?? Its a forum board mate, not a court of law. I am sure a search of the forum, if I could be arsed, would produce some quote from you about paying a girl for sex, and so breaking the law. Maybe you could confirm or deny whether you have ever taken part in a P4P activity.
For the record Nigel is not my mate as you stated earlier, in fact I think you will find I wrote that I am not a supporter of his.
You claim my comparing Eden and Nigel is ludicrous and justify it by saying you have never seen anyone doing it there. To use your argument, have you been there at every encounter? So how do you know? Do you honestly believe that a golden shower has never been performed in Eden? Re the excrement part, as far as I am aware, he has never written insults in excrement on any girl. If he did, then it isnt exactly much fun for him either. He did have a girl shit on his stomach once, and as far as I recall she was laughing. My point in that argument was that some people who may claim that Nigels vids are degrading have no problem going to Eden and having 2 girls f*** each other etc. which many many others would consider degrading.
You then misquoted me. I actually said 'The truth is he does not physically hurt the girls, ie beat them etc.' My point being that he does not beat them in any way, just has sex, admitedly in an unsophisticated way. The fact that so many girls have done a video would suggest that he does not mistreat them. He does not make them have sex with animals or anything like that.
As for reporting him to high level people we will see what happens. I am sure you are not the first to try to have him locked up, yet he is still doing it. Even if it does work, it will only be the lower level guys removed such as Nigel, Apeman and cameraman. The guys who run the operation (and make the money) are not even in the country. They will just hire a new dick and be a little bit more discreet.
I dont quite understand why you hate him with such a passion, but fair play to you for standing up for your beliefs. In my view there are far far worse things to worry about, and similar degrading things happen every night.
If the girl has made the decision to do a video with him, is aware of what will be involved and what will be done with it and is not physically harmed then that is her right to do it and is not our business (leaving aside the obvious fact that it is illegal, as are all P4P sessions here).
|
Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:28 am on June 30, 2006
|
|
atl
|
yo,
is this nigel guy the bald dude with a big red scar on his stomach?
If so, I have seen pics of him and his really hairy counterpart.
I have not seen any movies or clips, but if you ask me the vids of japanese girls getting shit on in the mouth etc is much worse.
Dont get me wrong I would never write "anal slut" on a girls back in lipstick, but man I got an email (it was meant as a joke from a mate) and opened it up and a dude is literally taking a big shit a cute japanese girls face, and it appeared he had a high fiber intake
I figure you cant save the world and if you dont like what this bloak does then dont watch it. I certainly will not!
cheers all,
atl
|
Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 4:43 pm on June 30, 2006
|
|
seajohn
|
Well, of course you're right, atl, so I don't watch it 555 So I don't know everything he does. But yes, I believe there are many worse things being depicted and going on in the world. I have enough time trying to save myself, much less the world!
DaffyDuck,
Myself still having the probably misguided (after all what creature is more cruel and savage on Earth?) desire to make myself agreeable to other humans, I feel that for my own honor's sake I must point out one thing which I did not do explicitly in my post above.
There seems to be an increasing amount of sadism in porn. That was one of the original points of this discussion. I neither understand nor like it, so I don't pursue it.......... Anyone who says that making a joke on a forum about a girl gagging while BJing is the same as actually trying to get her to gag and be sexually fascinated by it and expect others to sexually enjoy a film of it is really out to lunch, in my opinion........ It's not the same. Who among us has not made, and will not continue to make, jokes about blowing up the world, another person, or any other devastating thing? Or even had an angry thought to do so? But not actually trying to do it and get a real thrill out of someone else's suffering--that means something doesn't it?
I realize this is going beyond the Nigel films. But I feel that if we're discussing something I lightheartedly posted in the same breath as me expressing dismay over one person getting pleasure from another's pain--then I have to make this differentiation, and I don't believe that's hypocrisy. It would be madness if you want to hold everyone accountable for their jokes as if they were real.
I don't actually mean to point this specifically at you Daffy (I don't mean to say that you are out to lunch), but I think you can understand both my analysis in the post above, and my differentiation in this one.
Enjoy your weekend, all.
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:08 pm on June 30, 2006
|
|
| |
|
