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Skip
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I've really enjoyed watching the heart come thru on the, "Was it a good deed or have I started her down the wrong path?" thread but don't want to spoil it. Yet I have a similar question which is relevant and coincidentaly crept back in my mind this past week.
While there in October as I walked around Sukhumvit I couldn't help notice the beggars on the sidewalks. The physically disabled and disfigured are sad enough but when I saw the mothers with the babies or children living off the sidewalks.... it became really hard to walk on by. At first I did though, I wanted to be firm and assumed it best to bypass them thinking that if you give them anything that you'd eventually (by word of mouth) fill the sidewalks perhaps.
Well that resolve lasted about 4 days and the sheer misery of their situation undid my resolve. I started dropping in 10baht coins or 20 baht notes, whatever I had that was small, but what I thought would buy them a meal at least, whenever I passed it went their way. Ý
Today I'm counting down the (10) days till I'm back and I was thinking seriously of making this a standard operating procedure while there. Why, you might ask? Well, the gravity of their situation and due to the children so often being involved that's why. It was so oppressive I can't help but want to give. I thought too, here I am throwing around money so easily at the scene's girls when the appreciation is factor is debatable. Yet a 10baht coin in the cup of someone who has no potential and so little future...It jsut felt like the right kind of penance I guess.
So what is your opinion? What would you do? Am I making things worse for teh crowded sidewalks of Sukhumvit? And, if it would only clog the streets more eventually then what?
PS. I'm presently slammed at work and am not gonna have the time to shepard this along. So I hope that you all will just let this run a wonderful course as so often is the case on threads here.
Thanks all!! ÝPeace!
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:10 pm on Dec. 12, 2002
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Metaliclink
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Skip,
It is kind to give money to beggers but remember some of these are professionals. babies are for hire in certain cities, including Bangkok, people hire them and then go out begging as usually, people are more sympathetic towards children, which is rightly so. But it is sometime sjust too hard to tell the real beggers apart from the ones who just wanna earn some extra cash by doing nothing at all. After 6 years in China my heart has turned to stone when it comes to beggers. I've found that if i give to one, then 20 of them all come creeping out from god knows where and you can never get rid of them. ... I only give to the really old guys who are obviously from the country and most likely have nothing at all. Once in shanghai i gave an old man a full beer i was carrying from a night club and he stood there for 10 minutes saying a prayer to me (and yes it was a prayer i can speak chinese)
Its times like this when it is very rewarding to be generous, but sometimes they'll just laugh behind your back for giving them money when they arent in dire need.
By the way, this is all just IMHO.
------20 hours until lift off!!! woohooo
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 7:33 pm on Dec. 12, 2002
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tapioca
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well, in Shanghai, the beggars are "strategically placed" by the mafia there...they give the mafia a certain % of what they "earned" that day...so really, ur not giving money to a beggar, they're working...
Skip, I do the same shit u do...i only give money to people that i c that def. cannot work...i don't care if they're professional or not. 20bht here and there won't kill me and at least it will buy them a meal...
tapioca
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:36 pm on Dec. 12, 2002
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Byron
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It can be quite a professional organisation. I have heard cruel stories about children taken away from villages, beaten to cripple and put out on the streets of Bangkok.
The young flower girls look very cude and I have seen plenty of tourist, often the females, giving them lots of money. Some even take them to buy new fancy jeans.
It is too easy to generalise on this topic, one way or the other. I tend to stay away from beggars, never buy flowers or tourist crap. My reason: I just think that when buying you are creating a demand.
There are plenty of very good charity projects in Thailand that will do much more contructive things with my money.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 8:51 pm on Dec. 12, 2002
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Metaliclink
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Tapioca,
I agree with you its nice to give them money enough for a meal or whatever, and 20 baht here and there isnt anything to us and a lot to them, i just don't like the streets being flooded with beggars and the more money they get the more there will be -- simply through word of mouth... and yeah i understand the situation may be different in shanghai as it is to BKK but not all are under control of the mafia...
the most sad thing about beggars here (maybe elsewhere also) is that up until the 60's (maybe even continuing today..but not heard of) parents would deliberately disable their children by breaking their legs or arms or burnign them so that they would always be able to earn money through begging.... these are people i tend to give money to as it is not their choice at all...
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 8:51 pm on Dec. 12, 2002
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Metaliclink
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Byron i couldnt agree more mate.
The flower girls are very cute and sometimes make u want to buy their flowers just coz of their personalities... A few friends and i here in shanghai used to be frequently hastled by one of these girls but instead of telling her to go away we talked to her, found out about her family and why she is doing this for a living... Anyway we found out she goes to school during the day and goes out to sell flowers for 2 hours a night to earn pocket money... These girls are very rarely extremely poor, we ran into this particular girl shopping with her mum, buying new clothes and looking quite happy. Her and her friend were really fun to talk to and loved having foreign friends. We never bought flowers from this girl but after a month or two of her coming up to us we all pitched in a bought her a new bike (for about 25 USD) now she rides her bike around the Gu Bei Area selling her flowers like that... i much prefer buskers, or salespeople than beggars!!
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:56 pm on Dec. 12, 2002
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MrJoe
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When I get the time I'll post a story about some flower girls w/ both a happy and a sad ending. I managed to "save" one.
I'll post on beggars too, but I need more coffee (and timea) before I can launch into another one of my rambling posts...
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:04 pm on Dec. 12, 2002
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FarangBha
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Begging and selling is basically controlled by local areas - ie its territorial, so someone has to get paid protection money. I wont contributte to that. I do have alot of sympathy for blind people, so if they happen to be performing a tune, I'll dip in for some coins - I often feel bad if I dont. People who sit there just begging no way -
Theres always things they can make to sell -
Blind people massage/sing
Armless paint with feet
etc etc...
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:47 pm on Dec. 12, 2002
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ccvvbb
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Sounds like what me and 2 friends did in Ankor Wat, we met a young girl (18) selling t-shirts, souvenirs and food to the tourists there. Her english was very good and we talked to her for about an hour and found out that she learned english in school but had given her younger brother her bicycle so he could attend school himself.
This left her no way to get to school to continue her education, we continued on to the next temple, talked about it and returned and picked her up and drove into town so she could pick out a new bicycle. I do not know if I have ever seen anybody as happy as that little girl was when she got back to the temples and was able to show all of her friends and family. It left a very good feeling inside me to know that I was able to help out somebody in need.
Well, I did wonder if she had "worked" us by telling us all of the things we needed to hear and therefore buy her the bike. I did return 6 months later and when I pulled up in the taxi the look on her face was something I will never forget, it was like she had seen god or somethiong, we had a good reunion and my doubts had been erased from my mind, she still had the bicycle we bought her and she was attending school too.
I also went out to the "floating village" outside of "Ankor Wat" where the people live in POVERTY, there is no other way to explain it, they have NOTHING and it is very sad to see the children growing up like that, I did both times take toys, balls and teddy bears to hand out to the kids.
I have a few pics that you can look at below
http://www.spareabuck.com/cambodia.htm
Normally when in BKK I will save my "help" until the last day or 2 before I leave and then give somebody who I feel really needs the money, (somebody with no arms or legs crawling along the sidewalk) a bigger amount than I would give to 5 or 6 different people.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 9:52 pm on Dec. 12, 2002
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Metaliclink
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Farangbha, exactly my point... if they are doing something for the money then i feel more than happy in giving them some, but if they do nothing but try and make u feel bad then i don't fall for that.
ccvvbb, thats great about the bike and the toys for the poor kids. I still see this girl sometimes when i am in the area (she says she's 12 and looks about that) and she is always riding her bike around with a big smile on her face. So whether or not she or her family could afford the bike themselves i dont care so much, but the fact that she truly appreciated the gift is what hits me in the heart 
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:23 pm on Dec. 12, 2002
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