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Smegma
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I promise I will give you an update. Even if she is upset now, Thais do not (usually) hold grudges and I am sure we will end up at lest being cordial when we bump into each other at her place of work.
Anyway, before that updates come, I will later -tomorrow more likely- give you some more background and thoughts on what I think she may have been thinking.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:04 am on June 13, 2003
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3cazzi
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Smegma, I joined this forum recently, but I saw already some of your posts... enough to believe you are not the guy that gets easily confused.
Also most of the brothers that know you (better than me) seem to be surprised by it, as this time you really seem confused.
When an experienced man gets confused is usually because the cock has been teased well enough to take off all the blood from the "potato", and beeing hardon too long without satisfaction the potato turns in ... a boiled mush potato !!!
You don't let us to understand if you fed it with your own fantasies (about the good girl) or if your PR girl is an excellent cock teaser, it's a fact that you were mad even if you were sensible enough not to show it too explicit.
But you know yourself and the girl, so you might have the answer already.
Anyhow
Not for money matter (I am sure 100%), but you went back to her working place, so now everybody knows that you want her so badly... which sets you in an unfortunate position while you never get a good deal when you badly want something...
But if you want to build something higher than a ST/LT with this girl you shouldn't feel guilty: she was nasty at you as nasty was making problems at her working place (= it's even), good for start again.
I count on your sense of humor for my rude final comment:
if I was you I would prefer her to be the cock teaser type than the good (but stupid) one.
In the end, the first one might f_ck you stupid while the stupid one might just drive you mad.
Because in the end, be honest with us... Ýyou are going to sleep with this girl, don't you ?!?
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 10:44 am on June 13, 2003
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griffin
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smegma,
certainly a good story. happened to me in a similar way, also returned claimed the money go it and tipped it again.
seems to be a typical thai story none of us farangs will ever understand!
in a farang eyes you were doing the right thing in giving her a lesson, but did this really work? at the end of the day they are still happy, she got some money, the mamasans got some so all the thais are happy and will know for the future that they will still get away with treating farangs like this!
If you really wanted to give her a lesson you should have kept the money, as this would have made her think - thai as she is!
now you can feel like the gentleman but i guess some people involved might still have a very big smile on their faces.
i know it is hard to keep cool, there are some girls who did constantly piss me off as well and i still see myself giving them drinks hoping that they are not at all the way they have acted before! some people are sometimes just to soft to draw a line or face facts!
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:26 pm on June 13, 2003
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Smegma
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3cazzi, I was liking, but you chose wrongly this time on how to select a topic/poster target. I alone, I am an open target, and had somebody else made a smartass remark ( a long time enemy or another smartass I would probably have take it differently) ... it would have been most likely ok. But for you to choose to use this post and to say the things you said as your first shot at me.... well.... let me just say, I am thinking ..... nah ... you are so out of touch ... that it doesn't matter what I say.
Some assholes get by because brothers here already know they are idiots and they are nice fun idiots. But you have done much diservice to yourself because most brothers here know me well enough to read and understand the tone of my posts even when they may be bros who dislike me a lot. You have just shown to have no clue at all. And that perhaps our reasons for liking you were purely coincidental.
You were making sense most of the time, and I thought you had some real knowledge about how things shake in LOS. I see now that it was the result of common sense -ok, so you have decent logic and can articulate some thoughts-, but that would seem to be all. You have shown just now to lack real knowdlege and really understanding about things Thai.
BTW, it will always make you look silly and dumb having a conversation with your father where you try to lecture him about how to make babies.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 2:05 pm on June 13, 2003
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haam sup
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"Haam Sup would of course say that this makes you a control freak..."
Hey! ÝFrom up here, on Arramsey's shoulder, where I hold the posts of 'conscience' and 'censor' - things look pretty much as expected.
Just one question: am I the guy with the white robe and wings? Or the one with the red suit, and a pitchfork?
haam sup
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 3:08 pm on June 13, 2003
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haam sup
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OK, I will preface this by saying that I originally PMed this to Smegma. ÝHe has since asked me to post it, so here it is, minus the part where I promise to pay him for last night  ...
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Smegs,
The main thing that strikes me here is that it's mostly about YOU - how YOU feel, what YOU expect for the money, how YOU feel guilty, how YOU had to show her that it wasn't the money.
But I think you are forgetting that she is Thai - by now, you know that it isn't about the money for her either - it is about status, and face, and the Thai way.
It's not particularly incongruous that she wouldn't see anything wrong with accepting your gift, and then wanting to go back to work to satisfy her drink quota. ÝIn fact, it seems pretty typical - she's NOT your mia noy, she isn't bought and paid for, and she doesn't (apparently) go with customers. ÝWhy should she act like a paid-for prostitute, just because of your expectations. ÝShe probably thought you gave it willingly, as an investment in your blossoming relationship, and a sign that you hold her in esteem. ÝThis is quintessential Thai girl behavior. ÝThere is a HUGE disconnect in the cause/effect reasoning of Thai women. ÝIn fact, the more they learn cause/effect, the more hardened and calculating they become, and the less we like them. ÝThe fact that she did what was natural, and inadvertently pissed you off, is a sign of her lack of guile.
And what is she, really, to you? ÝA conquest that didn't quite get conquered? ÝA blow to your ego?
If you really see potential as a GF, then you have to ask yourself how much each of you is going to change to accomodate the other's culture. ÝI'll bet you have had a LOT more encounters with Thai girls, than she has with farang guys. ÝWho is in a better position to understand the other? ÝYou live in Thailand, and with very rare exceptions, Thais will be Thais. ÝYour success with women there will depend LARGELY on your ability to get over the remnants of your own cultural dance steps.
All that takes time, and more than a passing interest.
You have said that the mamasan complemented you on how much more Thai you have 'become'...don't stop there. ÝGive willingly, and let things take their course. ÝIf you get used, choose more wisely next time. ÝOr find a girl who has more farang experience and understanding.
But be ready to go considerably MORE than half way with such a naive and unworldly creature.
As for giving her the money - I wouldn't. ÝIt's too late. ÝYou can only salvage it (assuming you are serious about her) by showing her that you care. ÝTalk to her honestly, and tell you you were hurt. ÝI know, easier said than done, but it's the ONLY way. ÝDo not make her think you are trying to BUY her. ÝIn the future, be a little more circumspect with cash gifts, and NEVER give with any expectation of something in return.
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Well, that's it - fire away...
haam sup
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:03 am on June 14, 2003
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Smegma
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I will preface this by saying also that Haam Sup was considerate enough to send me that by PM thinking I may take too much offense at some of the things he said. Not at all. I do not mind intelligent debating even if it is at my expense.
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Too many issues to address from previous posts.
QUOTE: "The main thing that strikes me here is that it's mostly about YOU - how YOU feel, what YOU expect for the money, how YOU feel guilty, how YOU had to show her that it wasn't the money. "
Hmmm.... Yes, maybe about me. But in a conflict that was between two people and I wanted to let her know that she couldn't get away with it, at least not with me.
Ok, I haven't told you some things from earlier, which may help, understand a bit more. She had done something similar once. One day she was at my place, and around 11pm she told me she was tired and she wanted to go home. Fine. Good-bye. Take care. Next day I talk to people from the place where she works and they tell me she went to work after leaving my place.
Again, I had given her enough money also that day so she didn't have to go to work.
I agree that I am not buying her. At least I am not buying her to be with me. But I am giving her the money that she needs so that she doesn't feel compelled by monetary reasons to having to go to work -at least that day. In other words, she is not missing out for not going to work, and she can do as she pleases: be with me, or go home watch TV, or sleep or anything -but the money is certainly given so that she doesn't go to work. If she were going to work, I would not give her the money. I can also go and see her there and have her sit with me and believe me, it will cost me less and she would also make less.
I was annoyed at this, and next day I "book" her and go there. She sits next to me and we have a few drinks and I nicely explain why I thought lying to me the previous day was not nice.
QUOTE: It's not particularly incongruous that she wouldn't see anything wrong with accepting your gift, and then wanting to go back to work to satisfy her drink quota. ÝIn fact, it seems pretty typical - she's NOT your mia noy, she isn't bought and paid for, and she doesn't (apparently) go with customers. ÝWhy should she act like a paid-for prostitute, just because of your expectations. ÝShe probably thought you gave it willingly, as an investment in your blossoming relationship, and a sign that you hold her in esteem. ÝThis is quintessential Thai girl behavior. ÝThere is a HUGE disconnect in the cause/effect reasoning of Thai women. ÝIn fact, the more they learn cause/effect, the more hardened and calculating they become, and the less we like them. ÝThe fact that she did what was natural, and inadvertently pissed you off, is a sign of her lack of guile."
DAMN!!! ÝThat makes a lot of sense (given the way Thais sometimes think). And for once I guess I do not know what to say. Yes, could be. And if this what really happened, then I think and feel I did things wrongly.
You guys ask what she is to me? If I am pissed because I didn't get her, etc.
I put women I am attracted to into two categories: The ones that I like but I am not willing to put too much of a protracted effort into, and the ones that I am willing. In LOS, most so far have been in the first group.
Those in the first group get sorted out quickly be p4p or not. The ones in the second one do not get sorted out so quickly and are more difficult and are the dangerous ones. It is also then important not to know only what they are to me, but what am I to them. In other words, lets try cutting to the chase -if not the actual chase, what is the script of the chase? Is it a car chase or a motorcycle chase?
We do not know what kind of chase? Ok. Whatever. But lets "make the effort" at appearing to be honest with each other.
What I am trying to say is that I do not want to judge this girl or anyone by the actions alone; but mostly by the frame of mind and what she was actually thinking when she did what she did.
Does she want to take me for a free ride? Fine. She may want. She may succeed a little. But not time after time after time. I felt she might have been feeling that she was succeeding at it and I decided to say enough. Not with this guy, not this time.
Did I see her as a potential GF? This was something that was annoying me. I started thinking of the quick thing. But as she had started to prolong things, I saw that if I invested the time and effort, it would somehow end up badly if I myself pulled out after a one night or so. I was already seen myself becoming committed for some time if we ever went ahead. And I was not sure. I was deciding to postpone the decision. Who knows, maybe we end up being just friends.
I have many friends at the place where she works, and I do not have to pay them to be with me during their free time -they do it out of their own free will. On the other hand, I never ask them to not go to work, because I do not have to pay for them to be with me. They do when and if they want. BTW, there is no sex involved with those colleagues of her -just classic real friendship activities.
I had tried explaining this concept to the girl. I never had to do it with her other Thai colleagues. They know themselves that real friendships are not bought.
Maybe I stated something wrongly before. I did not really want to give her a lesson in life. What I wanted was to teach her that this one guy she couldn't play so freely and get away with it for so long and so blatantly -at least not this guy in that place where she works. In this case the lesson was "you played me badly. You just lost me forever and oh boy! If you were such a bitch just going for money you lost me and all the potential for money. Had you done better, you could have got lots out of me." And do this in a nicer way that going there the next day, she coming to me, and me ignoring her -this would have been a greater loss of face to her; now next time we meet we can be cordial and pretend.
Where does my guilt doubts come from? When I start having thoughts about she having acted under the frame of mind that haam sup described.
In other words, to me the whole thing is not what she did, but under what frame of mind and what attitude she did what she did. Because under one frame of mind and attitude, I would then think I was wrong.
If she was acting in a conniving way, I have no regrets. If I made a mistake judging her views, then I would regret it.
There will be updates to come. As I am a regular in this place, I am sure I will see her soon -will be talk to each other? I do not know. I am certain other senior staff will come to talk to me and give me their views without me even asking them.
One side comment: we seem to get confused with the use of the word "good". Being a good girl in the sense of not engaging in p4p that is all it means. It doesn't mean the girl is a good human being.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:16 am on June 14, 2003
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Arramsey
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Quote: from Smegma on 1:16 pm on June 14, 2003
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If she was acting in a conniving way, I have no regrets. If I made a mistake judging her views, then I would regret it.
Smegs - Way to go man !!
As I have said in my earlier post , if you do have some feelings for this girl then give her a fair chance . No , give her more than a fair chance - i.e. approach it with a mind-set that it was all a communication problem not only of the verbal kind BUT also of the cultural kind .
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:39 pm on June 14, 2003
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Arramsey
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Quote: from haam sup on 12:03 pm on June 14, 2003
OK, I will preface this by saying that I originally PMed this to Smegma. ÝHe has since asked me to post it, so here it is, minus the part where I promise to pay him for last night ...
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Haam Sup ,
Your post makes a lot of sense - I'm glad Smegma wanted you to convert your PM to him into a post on this thread .
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 11:43 pm on June 14, 2003
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Smegma
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Quote: from Arramsey on 11:43 am on June 15, 2003
Haam Sup ,
Your post makes a lot of sense - I'm glad Smegma wanted you to convert your PM to him into a post on this thread .
Arramsey, my willingness to due so is because I do truly believe in well reasoned open minded debate Ý-no matter how unpleasant to one of the debating parties, the posibility of being wrong might be. Unless one is willing to listen to well reasoned ideas -although perhaps opposite to one's own- then there is very little chance of further learning and personal growth.
Probably hadn't it been for Haam Sup's post which made me doubt about the posibility of having been right, I would not have done what I did yesterday -at least not so soon. 
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UPDATE
Damn! The post from Haam Sup, made me think ..... So yesterday mid-afternoon, I sent the girl a text message saying that I want to talk to her and that I am going to call her in a few minutes -I did this to let her think and decide ahead of time if she wants to answer the call or not.
Five minutes later, I called and she didn't pick up. Well, I think, that is it; the end of this whole thing is now confirmed. I am with a couple of brothers (FarangBha and Neo) playing pool in soi 22 and after many rounds of beer and pool (where we are all beaten by this almost pro-player and a babe with an amazing body) I take the phone of a bro and I call her. She picks up. But I decide I do not want to ambush her, and if she doesn't want to talk so be it, so I hang up. Later I decide to call again from my own phone one more time, and now she answers.
After polite greetings by both, I ask her if she is upset and she says yes. I say that if she doesn't want to talk to me, I understand. Somehow we keep talking, and I tell her that I was also very upset. However, after thinking about it a bit more for the last two days, I think that there may still be some misunderstanding about each others actions and views and that I would like to discuss the matter with her one more time. She tell me she is going to work shortly, but that she could meet in 30 minutes time at Emporium. Deal.
I leave the guys and walk to Emporium and I meet the girl. We both have a serious look and body language is not very nice from either. We both tell each other that we have been upset and we ask each other "if you are upset, then why did you come?" We both have the same answer: "I don't know"
We get going into explaining and describing our grievances. She is upset for me having gone back after having said I was not going and for complaining to the mamasan ("Why did you go back!?" ). ÝI end up explaining my views, which she understands when I tell her that if I were to go to her place of work and have her sit and drink with me, she would not then be leaving me alone and going to sit and drink with somebody else. And if she is making me give her money so that she can skip work, same as going there and buying her out for the night so that she can go out with me -same as BF-, the last thing I expect is for her to go have drinks with somebody else on that time. I tell her she could do anything she wanted (like go home to sleep) except leave me behind for her to go have drinks with others. I told her I had given her many times the BF. She said that had she known I was getting upset about it, she would not have thought of going back to work, but said that I didn't appear very upset about she going back -so much for not showing your anger and keeping things to yourself!
[Oh, by the way, the sad side story, is that after all that, she didn't get any extra drinks that night.]
To make the story short, she ends up saying that 4 days ago she liked me very much, 2 days ago she didn't like me at all and now, well ... maybe a little. And going forward we decide that we will just have a good normal customer-PR relationship going and MAYBE then we jump into something else as we see and feel how things are progressing. In other words, we are not going to have any more outings for a while but wait until we interact a few more times there at her place of work, and get comfortable again and "understand" each other a bit better.
What am I thinking now? I am satisfied that she "seemed" to understand why I got upset. I understand why she got upset and why she thought it was fine for her to go to work. We are not upset with each other anymore, and we will be cordial and pretend to be happy with each other ... and ... and I do not know. I am not worried. I feel like this is a reset back to zero, so any terrain gained has been lost, but at least there is no baggage to weight us down if things ever start moving forward again.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:35 am on June 15, 2003
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