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cheapcharlie
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democracy -= collectiive dictatorship
my dear freedom I knew him well 
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:51 am on Mar. 13, 2004
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The Machine
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VJ
Democracy and freedom of speech should not be confused with anarchy.
We have laws in our societies for very good reasons.
In a democracy if the majority think something should be banned or outlawed so it comes to pass.
Okay it is a bit simplistic but do you seriously believe nothing should be banned or censored?
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 4:21 am on Mar. 14, 2004
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Vancouver Jay
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I'm a lot more hesitant to trade liberty for security than you seem to be.
And I don't think any adult has the right to have their sensibilities protected by some uber-daddy state apparatus.
People vote with their feet and their wallets. If a billboard with tits out offends thee, don't buy that brand of jeans. If Howard Stern says "hauńch", switch channels. Or better still get with your neghbors, boycott, write letters, etc.
Just please don't whine and cry until the government spends my tax dollars on something you should be big enough to do for yourself. I want my taxes spent on keeping the poor fed, the kids educated, the borders secure and the bad guys in jail and pretty much nothing else, thank you.
The tyranny of the majority sounds a good idea until you find yourself in the minority. "When they came for the Jews...", etc.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:22 am on Mar. 14, 2004
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Smegma
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Well Machine has his opinion, so... shouldn't he be allowed to say that he has hopes that some things will be banned. Just like you are then allowed to tell him than in your opinion his opinion should not be the one used to decided what is allowed and what is not?
V-J, the same majority is the one that decides how to educate those kids you mention, and also put in jail the bad guys, and secure the borders.
There are many decissions that are done also regarding how to do those things. And the majority is the one who decided (well, supposedly).
Now, if the majority is good enough for you to do those things, the same majority should be good enough if they do other things.... but the problem now is you may not like that one thing they are doing now.
So how now brown cow? Well, we will all have opinions, and some times we will be in the majority and sometimes not.
When there is only black and white, it is easier to decide. But mostly there is continuous gradient of gray and a decission has to be made at times where the cutoff is.
Freedom of speech? Yeah, one funny case, was recently Sony in the USA using freedom of speech to defend false advertising. Yes, one could argue one can say anything one wants. What does it matter that Sony was quoting an unexisting film critic to promote its film. Should the state force people to always speak the truth? Hey! it is freedom of speech?
The tiranny of the majority is better than the tiranny of one, and better than free for all chaos. Problem is the majority is often not smart enough to realize than overegulating does not work. And this is sadly because the majority is made of most often of stupid people.
Western style democracy only really works in countries where the majority of the people are really well educated... like in Switzerland and the Scandinavian countries. Everywhere else, it is just the best rosy dream we can have for now.
Anyway, when it comes to trading some of these liberties, "some" smart majorities strike a good compromise based on the needs of all. And thus what they do is regulate "spaces" where minorities can do what they want. Those spaces could be actual locations or times or specific conduits. In many places these are compromises that work for all fairly well.
And lest not forget that sometimes some behavior although not illegal it is highly annoying and people can expect to have their expectations fulfilled. I will give you an extreme example: people in a movie theater encounter an idiot that keeps shouting obscenities every time a good looking girl appears on the screen. He may be using his freedom of speech and people could then walk out. But expecting ("regulating") that people in a theater better keep quiet or else they will be kicked out is fair to all those who went there expecting to watch a movie in peace. Now, on the other hand, if the majority is shouting because the theater is one where people are know for that... well, then it was the mistake of the guy who chose the wrong theater.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 7:55 am on Mar. 14, 2004
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fastmover
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Well I clicked on the quote button, deciding to comment on your opinions Smegma........
But in fact I cannot even begin to unravel the 'fog', you have blessed us with this time.
For example..."The tiranny of the majority is better than the tiranny of one, and better than free for all chaos. "
Well, any tyranny of the majority is almost certainly proclaimed by one individual who claims to represent the majority for the good of all, in which case free for all chaos is preferential since it may eliminate tyranny as you have described with chaos normally being a temporary transition.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 10:34 am on Mar. 14, 2004
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Vancouver Jay
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@smegs: "V-J, the same majority is the one that decides how to educate those kids you mention, and also put in jail the bad guys, and secure the borders. "
No, they don't, at least not directly. There are no democracies, only republics and that's not the same as you already know.
You can rest assured that Government Inc. does not perform those three functions to my complete satisfaction. But they do a reasonably good job and that suits me well enough.
If Johnny and Suzie's folks want to send them to a school that teaches Nazism, fine, as long as it's not my tax dollars paying for it. When they get into the real world, Darwin takes over and problem solved.
Jail's are in short supply in my opinion. But in the West a sufficiently high percentage of people who belong behind bars are that I can feel safe in my person and my property.
Control of borders from a military aspect is a moot point for most Westerners. In regards to immigration policy a lot needs to be done, but it's jobs-export in the high-tech sector that's the real threat which no one seems to recognize yet.
I'll get this all fixed up as soon as the world recognizes that I am its rightful master and I'm installed as the All-Being: Master of Time, Space & Dimenison. After that, I want to go to France... [name that tune?]
In the meantime, I've got to make a living and in my spare time engage in petty arguments on intwerpnet forums.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:39 am on Mar. 14, 2004
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Smegma
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Quote: from Vancouver Jay on 11:39 pm on Mar. 14, 2004
.... and in my spare time engage in petty arguments on intwerpnet forums.
V-J,
That sounds depressing. Maybe you need to look for a new hobby. I can give you a few pointers, but somehow I guess you will not appreciate them.
Another question, what do you think of the people who spend their time engaged in petty arguments in internet forums? -of course notwhistanding that your engagement in such arguments does not make you at all like them.
Anyway, I have decided not to debate this issue more, as I couldn't care less about debating here what you call jobs-exports in the tech-sector. I only discuss such matter with those who have an understanding of the works of David Ricardo and Adam Smith... ok you can throw in also John Maynard Keynes. Or at the very least an open mind.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:14 pm on Mar. 14, 2004
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The Machine
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VJ
Do you think paedophilic material should be allowed on public billboards?
If you answer no, then that is censorship is it not, and ergo your argument founders?
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:31 am on Mar. 15, 2004
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Oz
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Quote: from Vancouver Jay on 12:39 am on Mar. 15, 2004[br.]
I'll get this all fixed up as soon as the world recognizes that I am its rightful master and I'm installed as the All-Being: Master of Time, Space & Dimenison. Dr Who - TARDIS!
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 1:53 am on Mar. 15, 2004
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Hermanolobo
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Quote: from Oz on 2:53 pm on Mar. 15, 2004
Quote: from Vancouver Jay on 12:39 am on Mar. 15, 2004[br.]
I'll get this all fixed up as soon as the world recognizes that I am its rightful master and I'm installed as the All-Being: Master of Time, Space & Dimenison. Dr Who - TARDIS!
You might watch the TV programmes but I actually remember the REAL Police boxes !
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:19 am on Mar. 15, 2004
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