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Zorro 69
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I have just come back from my first trip to Thailand.
From what I saw and the places I have been to it looked a lot safer than other places I have been.
I have been looking at sites on the net for information about Thailand. Then I found this large site with a lot of information called Stickman.
I was shocked. Is Thailand that violent ? Was I lucky ?
As my travelling companion remarked,"I have come here to get away from that type of thing!"
This is what I found:-
The Danger Factor
There is a unit in an English teaching course book that I use that revolves around city life. The focus of the lesson is the grammatical use of "has / have got" as well as the vocabulary of landmarks, buildings and features of a city. While my job is that of a language teacher, I never waste the opportunity to give the kids a bit of insight into the farang way of thinking. I am after all, an educator. So when I taught this particular lesson just a few weeks ago, I told the students that many farangs, and indeed many of my friends, truly believe that compared with cities in the West, Bangkok is safe. I relayed the story to them of how a number of people I know frequently walk in dark alleys late at night without a care in the world. They're thinking about their next teeruk, not the thief hiding in the bushes. OK, I never did tell the kids that bit... But I did mention that some of these people wandering the streets may have, from time to time, a not insignificant amount of money on their person. I explained to the students that truly the last thing these people think would happen would be for them to be attacked, robbed or be the victim of any funny business.
My students were horrified. They couldn't believe what they were hearing and they disagreed strongly, saying that Bangkok was dangerous, and that the city is full of criminals, many of them violent. I was touched when, at the end of the class, two of the female students stayed behind to give me some advice. "Please do not do what these people do. Bangkok is very dangerous. We are Thai people and we know. We do not want you to have a problem."
I used to think that Bangkok was safe, but recent events have forced me to reconsider this.
I briefly mentioned an increase in violence in last week's column and a friend who is a long time reader of the column read that and told me he was surprised until.....he flew in from London this week and on his very first night out he saw two different instances of violence, right out in the open on Sukhumvit, both involving foreigners getting beaten up! The first was on Sukhumvit Soi 4 where a farang got a hiding outside the Golden Beer Bar, you know the bar attached to the Nana Hotel. Just a couple of hours later he had the courage (stupidity?) to step in and assist a Belgian who was getting the crap beaten out of him on Sukhumvit Soi 5.
I do voluntary teaching to policemen from three different police stations. After the lesson ends the cops hang around and we chat about life in Thailand. One of the coppers said to me that there has been a huge increase in the number of rapes in Thailand in the last year and said that it has become a much bigger problem now than it ever was in the past. He said it was getting much worse, not just in Bangkok, but nationwide. These cops, the very guys who are right there at the coal face, told me that violent crime is on the increase in Thailand.
Some of the worst violence is warring between the students of rival vocational schools, but it is not unknown between high school students either. It's easy to feel that this is a Thai vs. Thai thing and that foreigners don't get caught up in it but nothing could be further from the truth. There is a vocational college on Phyathai Road, a few hundred metres away from Mahboonkrong Shopping Centre. This institute has been the subject of drive by shootings and I see farang tourists wandering around lost in that area all the time.
A former colleague of mine was on a red bus recently when a petrified vocational college student jumped on and tried to run through while pursued by two boys from a rival vocational college. One of the pursuers swung a machete which passed just a few inches above my friend's head, narrowly missing him, but going straight into an older woman's shoulder, sending her to the floor and my mate covered in blood.
One bar owner who gives me plenty of news and gossip said to me that there have been a heap of fights in and around his bar area but he wouldn't tell me about them in detail for fear I would run it in the column and it would have a detrimental effect on business.
There was a quite awful, graphic description of an attack on a foreigner posted on various Thailand websites last weekend. The foreign gentleman was attacked while on the back of a motorbike being ridden by another foreigner late on Saturday night, last weekend. In what appeared to be a random act of violence by a motorbike gang against a foreigner, he was attacked with clubs, knives and machetes, beaten up and basically mutilated! He was rushed to emergency surgery where one leg was amputated in emergency surgery before he went on to die a day and a half later.
A year or two back there was the Canadian who lost his eye when a taxi driver shoved a knife into it. There was the British photographer who got the crap beaten out of him in Hua Hin by a couple of foreign students, and who kept kicking him in the head while he was down causing swelling of the brain, facial disfigurement and major problems with his sight. There were all of the Hua Hin bar managers and owners attacked by locals over a short period of time. There was the popular American bar manager who was attacked near Clinton Plaza and whose bald head has the imprints of a hammer! There was the fight in Diamond A Gogo I personally witnessed and reported on a few months ago - and which afterwards Ricky said to me, "oh, that was nothing, you should have seen some of the fracas we used to have in Bangkok". I could go on and on with more and more stories of violence in Thailand involving foreigners in one way or another, but I think you get the drift.
There would appear to be a number of contributing factors. First off is the increased nationalism that came about, oh, around early 2001. I wonder what that coincided with? Whereas in the past foreigners used to be tolerated, I feel that more and more Thais do not accept us as they did in the past, and that many actually resent us. Farangs are no strangers to every corner of Thailand, and being unique isn't a card we can play anymore. More and more, Thais seem to have a short fuse with farangs and if pushed, have the propensity to go crazy, which means violence.
Then there was the crackdown on drugs which broke the supply chain and resulted in the cost of drugs soaring. Addicts could no longer afford their fix and those desperate for drugs resorted to desperate measures. Crimes were, and still are, committed to raise funds to feed their habit, and the common man, the likes of you and I, could be their next victim.
The atmosphere in the naughty bars seems to have changed and this is in no small part due to some of the farangs who have discovered Thailand recently. There seems to be more and more farangs of, shall we say, questionable moral fibre, who are visiting or even moving to Thailand. There are growing numbers of folks who take the attitude that they will not back down to anyone, and even those who are not shy to provoke a fight. The old "a good night is a pint and a fight" crowd. Admittedly, many farangs do bring trouble upon themselves, especially when they are full of liquor, but many are innocent victims. But even then, those who may have been responsible for starting it almost never deserve the "punishment" which is handed out.
If you do get into a spot of bother, you should remember that Thais tend not to interfere or intervene in public spats or fights, even if it is plainly clear that someone is being unfairly attacked, beaten up on or whatever. They'll stand back and watch, but that's generally all they'll do. And when the police get involved, they do not always handle things the same way that police in the West do. Many a foreigner has felt let down by the level of support or follow up from Thai police.
I'd urge you to do your very best to avoid any trouble that could escalate into a fight or an incident. Smile, back down, walk away, apologise, admit fault even if you weren't at fault. Do whatever you can to diffuse the situation. When you're on the ground unable to get up, and obviously unable to defend yourself, it doesn't necessarily stop - in fact that is when the big hits start, and the real damage is done. Too many people have suffered when the ante has been raised to ridiculous levels.
Violence in Thailand is nothing new. I can remember before my first trip here when a Kiwi policeman friend asked me to buy him a copy of the 191 magazine, which if you have never seen, shows pictures of the mess that coppers have to deal with day in, day out. Violence and violent crime has been a problem in Thailand for a long time. But it's getting worse.
And yeah, this sort of thing can happen anywhere in the world but its prevalence in Bangkok is increasing at a remarkable rate. And where in the world, in the West at least, do people continue to put the boot in and cause grievous harm even when someone is down? The damage done is taken to a whole new level and it is almost as if the perpetrators want to permanently maim the victim.
Many of the attacks happen at night, late at night, and this means that most people will be safe at home, thankfully. Read the reports and so often they occur very late at night so going to bed early drastically reduces the chances of being a victim. But that's the last thing some people want to do in Bangkok.
So it might not be Bogotá yet, but the increase in violence that we're seeing in Bangkok, both planned and random acts of violence, has to be a concern for anyone spending a lot of time here, particularly those people who choose it as their new home. Don't take your safety for granted.
'Z'
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:45 am on Aug. 17, 2005
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dotcom
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You & stickman both full of crap.
However watching my favorite Tv show "COPS" one thing is crystal clear. 99% of their calls involve booze & drugs.
So if you want to experience violence Thai style I would suggest a) get real drunk b) around 1 or 2 am hire a motorcycle taxi c) shout at any motorcycle gangs you might encounter. Best if the moto taxi driver is drunk as well.
Khun Ying Spikey Hair will get to do your autopsy.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:03 am on Aug. 17, 2005
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BigDUSA
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I come from Philadelphia and there are large areas in the city where you can walk 24/7 with no problems. There are areas where if I dropped you off at night, I'd never see you again well that's not quite true, I'd see you at the morgue.
Yes, BKK is violent. Use your head. You'll be OK.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 10:17 am on Aug. 17, 2005
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Golden Star
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Wow, are we talking about the same country here? Having visited the country twice now, I can honestly say that the only place where I felt safer was Singapore.
Now, I am not naive enough to believe that two trips are sufficient to formulate a realistic opinion, but about the only remote "problem" that I ever encountered was when I heading towards the Victory Monument BTS with a farang expat in BKK, and some burly teenager started shouting something at us with an evil grin on his face from across the street. Perhaps the farang pal of mine wasn't all he said he was...I shrugged it off and when I mentioned it later to my farang buddy, he said he didn't notice anything.
But other than that, jeez, I remember how I once had a bit too many drinks on Hat Lamai on Ko Samui (just for the record, a rare occurrence for me) and remember running around some dark alleys around midnight without a care in the world.
All in all, I feel much safer in Bangkok than I feel in my hometown in Canada. Perhaps, BKK residents can fill us in with some color regarding this.
GS
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 10:20 am on Aug. 17, 2005
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ColoradoGuy
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Stickman looks at many, many things with a very narrow eye, then paints a picture with an extremely broad brush. His "reports" and "commentary" used to be quite useful, informative and interesting, but readers who have been following him for years have noticed that he now has an 'agenda' about Thailand, Bangkok, Thai people and "the naughty nightlife" and he simply doesn't want to see another viewpoint or try to look at things in a different way. He used to be a fun read, now because he's not allowed to go out and have any fun like he used to do, he looks down on the entire p4p scene and anything having to do with ist.
When you read Stickman, you will see that he now believes all the guys who partake in p4p are of "questionable moral character" and the girls are just dirty, stupid, good-for-nothing whores and thieves. Or this is what he has been told he must believe - not sure which it is.
His time has come and gone.
Stickman wrote:
Many of the attacks happen at night, late at night, and this means that most people will be safe at home, thankfully. Read the reports and so often they occur very late at night so going to bed early drastically reduces the chances of being a victim. But that's the last thing some people want to do in Bangkok.
This could be written about any large city in the world. Crime happens at night? How would he know? His wife probably doesn't want him going out after dark anymore! Write him a note and ask him how many violent crimes in LOS he has been the victim of. Or even seen!
His later comparison of Bangkok to Bogotá is so ignorant, it is laughable. I have been to Bogotá a number of time (and recently) and Stickman is simply talking out of his ass.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:10 am on Aug. 17, 2005
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bkkfella
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One cannot beleive everything one reads in the New York Times. So is it any wonder that you should be careful reading Stickman ?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:08 pm on Aug. 17, 2005
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Hermanolobo
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The geezer admits to being a newbie and I suppose on his return he is hunting around for as much information about LOS as he can. I know I had this enthusiasm in the early days.
This has led him to discover 'Stickman' who when I first found him he was very informative. Mind you at that stage what the hell did I know ? Even after 16 trips and having Thai family and friends I am still just scratching the surface of a culture very different to the West.
I would think that those of you who have mastered the language will have a better insight and I would recommend that everybody at least has a try at speaking Thai.
I think to a certain extent 'Stickman' is right about the changes caused since Chairman Thaksin's ascendency in 2001. I preferred the place before that twat (oopps..BKK) came to power. The fact that the bars,Go-gos, street stalls who sell everything from a Thai noodle soup to a Battleship have been closed down after 2pm has hit a few ordinary Thais badly in the pocket? As for the drugs this is a Worldwide problem and if the addicts got their fixes free on prescription maybe the dealers in human need might find their custom has dried up ?
For a more straight and politically incorrect view of LOS I read Baron Bonk's 'Asia Bugle'. Sorry 'Stick'.
Some of Stickman's readers submissions are well worth a read however. Personally I would not like to dream up an interesting column about Thailand every week as there has to be a limit to the things you can say about Birds,booze and pussy ?
Stickman does remind me of 'some' English teachers I know who when settled with their Thai GF get a bit 'holier-than-thou'.
Some people come to Thailand with blinkers on or cheque their brain in at the arrival lounge to be collected on the return home. Some have permanent rose-tinted spectacles. Some are just plain cynical and perhaps a bit more realistic? That goes for expats, occasional tourists and board members alike ?
Is Thailand or Bangkok more dangerous ? I'd have to ask an educated Thai about that one or a Thai that knew what is going on at street level. As yet I have not visited Brasil but I am sure that Bangkok is a lot safer than Rio de Janeiro.
Cheers,
Brother Wolf
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:59 am on Aug. 18, 2005
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stu
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type in pattaya city news on search eng. hit search u will read about killings in pattaya everyday with photos of dead people as well as of people caught.all real like the t.v program cops but more graphic. Mind u,I have been going to Pattaya and Bangkok at least 3 times a year for the last 25 + years and have never seen any crime first hand
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 3:10 am on Aug. 18, 2005
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hkguy
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Mr.STU the only thing I would say is you are a very lucky guy!!!
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:46 am on Aug. 18, 2005
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