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Gus
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winner,
That was one BJ you don't want!!!!!!!!!
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Posted on: 12:37 pm on April 29, 2003
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jjj
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"Thank God the engine blew before we were too far down the runway to get stopped!! "
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An engine failing while you are in the air is really not a huge deal (I'm a pilot myself so I know these things). As long as there is not a fire as a result of the problem with the engine, any arline crew could land the plane without using the failed engine without even breaking into a sweat. If the plane is a 747 with 4 engines, one engine failing while in the air is really a non-event.
The point I'm making is that it is much safer for an engine to fail while you're in the air than it is for it to fail while you're on the ground attempting take off, etc. It's not the engines that keep you in the air - it's the wings. As long as the wings don't fall off, I wouldn't be worried.
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Posted on: 11:34 am on April 30, 2003
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Beer Barone
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a 747 isn't exactly a glider....I don't know what airplanes you fly but I'm guessing they are not multiple engine
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Posted on: 12:48 pm on April 30, 2003
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jjj
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Beer Barone,
What I said was that if *one* engine failed then it wouldn't be a problem. The gliding characteristics of a 747 are only relevant if all 4 engines fail.
In any case, a 747 has a good lift/drag ratio, so in fact it is a very good glider.
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Posted on: 2:17 pm on April 30, 2003
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Smegma
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The wings of most typical commercial planes are designed for providing a gliding ratio of 10 to 1. That is for each vertical unit, 10 horizontal units.
Read my post in the previous page regarding take-off speeds. I tried making the same point that jjj later better and further clarified.
However, expanding on jjj comments, besides the wing, you need to have control over the moving surfaces of the plane. Cases where the wing and engines do fine but hydraulics are lost, have proven to be some of the most difficult situations to handle [JAL 747 in Japan, AA DC-10 in Chicago, UA DC-10 in Iowa -all 3 lost total control over the moving surfaces. All three major accidents with great loss of life - 3 survivors in JAL and many more in UA, thanks to some ingenuous power-throtle management by a 3rd pilot who by luck was in the cabin and assisted trhe crew.]
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Posted on: 2:46 pm on April 30, 2003
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Thin White Duke
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____________________________________________
An engine failing while you are in the air is really not a
huge deal (I'm a pilot myself so I know these things). Mr JJJ
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Not that I'm a pilot, (though I've played one on TV), I'd speculate that it would depend upon where said engine fell. If you've seen "Donnie Darko" you'd get my point.
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Posted on: 5:08 pm on April 30, 2003
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Gus
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I understand from a friend that should you lose two engines on the same side on a four engined aircraft with maximum take off weight you could have serious problems, can you professionals confirm this?
My friends words were "all you could do was stick your head up your arse and whistle Barcelona"
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Posted on: 5:15 pm on April 30, 2003
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Deleted Member
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He may allude to the fact that the Airport in BArcelona is known for particularly tricky landing manuvres
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Posted on: 3:01 am on May 1, 2003
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jjj
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From Smegma:
"The wings of most typical commercial planes are designed for providing a gliding ratio of 10 to 1. That is for each vertical unit, 10 horizontal units."
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I believe the glide ratio for a typical 747 is between about 15:1 and 17:1, so this really shows how good a glider it is compared to other commercial aircraft, & illustrates the enormous lift which can be produced by its wings. If a 747 is flying at 36000 feet & loses all 4 engines, it would be able to glide up to around 115 miles before having to land (obviously assuming zero wind, zero turning, etc, etc).
The DC-10 crash-landing in Iowa mentioned by smegma was of course the opposite problem - the engines worked OK, but everything else failed! This was really a catastrophic problem in the air, & the crew did an amazing job even making it to an airfield. This just goes to show that if something is going to fail in the air, it is much better for it to be the engine(s) than many other things.
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Posted on: 4:04 am on May 1, 2003
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Smegma
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More on UA-232 (the DC-10 in Iowa):
As jjj points out the performance of the crew -aided by another DC-10 pilot instructor who was flying in 1st class and joined to help) was extraordinary. There have been reenactments in the safety of a flight simulator and many well experienced crews have failed to match the preformance of the original crew.
For those with an interest in aviation, this link provides lots of info regarding that accident http://spine.cx/crm/united_232.htm
Another interesting link http://www.airdisaster.com has all kind of information and links in aviation related statistics and accidents.
A very good book thrilling book is The Black Box : All-New Cockpit Voice Recorder Accounts Of In-flight Accidents by Malcolm Macpherson
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Posted on: 5:41 am on May 1, 2003
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