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black cats
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Has anyone flown Orient Thai to Hong Kong? If so what was the cost? Any other carriers to recommend? Thanks.
BC
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:43 pm on Jan. 27, 2005
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ftumch
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Yes. Just did it (still there). Excellent. No frills of course. 5,500 Baht return. Non-refundable, non-cancellable etc. You can book by phone and pick up and pay for the ticket at their office at the Jewelry Centre on Nares Road (near Suriwongse/Silom).
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 8:06 pm on Jan. 27, 2005
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black cats
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Thanks for the info ftmuch, enjoy your trip, FRs very welcome.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:05 pm on Jan. 28, 2005
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shoke
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For those of you thinking of flying Orient Thai, here's what your pilot thinks -
For those of you that are thinking of coming and joining us at Orient Thai, you have probably heard the shiny stories from the DFO or the Chief Pilot. I want to make a few facts available so that you can make an informed decision.
Conditions of Service Document: The new Conditions of Service Document is being called a "great improvement" over the previous situation. It is not. Please note that this is not a "contract" (as I have heard the management pilots refer to it), we do not have a contract at OX - a contract would interfere with Udom's ability to fire us with 1 days notice. The owner, Udom, through his agent in the operations office, Namphon, (ask your contact about her) has ignored this document. It was issued about 6 weeks ago and has already been broken. Last month (July) almost every pilot worked over 20 days and not one of them was paid the $100 US / day that these conditions call for.
Roster: Up until last month we would receive our roster about a week in advance (days off were attempted to be scheduled further ahead so you could plan). This month (August) we’ve had no roster at all. Operations calls you (or sometimes they don't) in the afternoon to tell you what you are doing the next day. You cannot plan ahead. You cannot leave town, even with a day off, because you don't know if you have to start at 0550 the next day. And they call you on days off to ask you to work. Despite what you might have been told, there is no chance that this will improve in the forseeable future.
Leave: And if you think that you can take leave - think again. Udom, with Namphon’s help, decided that the pilots had too much leave saved up, so in June they declared that leave had to be used in the calandar year that it was accrued. They then applied this retroactively and anyone who had leave owing from 2004 lost I immediately. Some people lost up to 3 weeks leave with the stroke of a pen, but this allowed Udom to operate with fewer pilots thus saving him money. This was done with the full concurrence of the DFO, whose comment was along the lines of "B757 pilots had too much time off last year anyway". And if you think that you are going to use this years’ leave this year, think again - you cannot use leave until it has been earned, so you cannot use December’s leave until January, and it will have been wiped from the books on Dec 31. Also, we are currently undermanned and it is almost impossible to get leave now.
Staff Travel: Effectively we don't get any (which doesn't really matter because you won't get more than one day off in a row to use it anyway). There is a provision to buy staff tickets (on OX only) for a very cheap price, but the correct form (I have never seen it) must be submitted at least 3 days in advance and then, may or may not be approved in that time. The form must be submitted to Namphon, which is an unpleasant experience in itself. I don't know anyone who has done it in the last, say, 6 weeks. Pilots who want to take their wives with them on domestic overnights (we often get 24 hours in Phuket) now buy full fare tickets for them on other airlines. One B757 Captain tried to buy a full fare ticket for his wife to travel on the same flight as him and they wouldn't sell it to him. They told him that the flight was oversold. He operated that flight 2 hours later and there were 160 people on a 215 seat aircraft. The ticket agents wanted Namphon’s approval to sell him the full fare ticket (the CP sent out an email to all pilots saying that if we are wanting to buy a full fare ticket on OX for our spouse, do so out of uniform - that is how bad things have gotten here – i.e. to travel on this airline we have to sneak in and pretend that we aren't pilots). I personally know three pilots who have flown their wives to Phuket on other airlines at full far rather than deal with OX.
Days in a Row: OX has recently had a ruling from the Thai DOA that there is no requirement for piIots in Thailand to have a day off - ever. I am not exaggerating here, ask to see the email from the Chief Pilot that was sent to all B757 pilots entitled "MAXIMUM EFFORT" and sent on July 30, 2005. I know of 2 (I’ve actually seen their timesheets) who have worked 11 and 12 days in a row. Expect that. You might be told that we are hiring to alleviate the manning shortage. That is not true - we are hiring to replace pilots who are leaving and we haven’t hired anyone yet.
"If you don't do it, you are fired": This is the most recent mantra of the DFO. I have spoken to three BB757 pilots who have told me that they have been given this ultimatum. One was pointing out that a trip violates two of our FOM flight and duty limit 'rules' (he had no intention of not doing the trip, he was just pointing out the problem) : i) there was only an 8 1/2 hour break after working a 13 hour day (our FOM requires 14 hours), ii) the flight exceeded the 8 hours flight time in 24 hours rule. Another had returned from a particularly demanding charter at 3 am (after flying for 6 1/2 hours) and was told to report that afternoon at 5:50 PM for flight duty - when he said something, the DFO said "tell him if he doesn't do it, he is fired."
Firings: The above threat is to be taken seriously. Ask your contact how many people have been fired from OX on 24 hours notice in the last year. So far none from the B757 fleet, but this was due to a big sacrifice by the previous DFO and the B757 pilot group (the pilots each took 2 weeks leave without pay so that no one had to be fired) Udom takes $1200 of your money out of your pay to ensure that you give him 1 months notice if you quit, but don't expect the same courtesy from him.
Crew Limits: This was partially discussed above, but more needs to be said about it. The CP has publicly stated that he considers these limits (as written in the FOM) to be 'guidelines', not limits. He regularly exceeds these limits himself.
FOM: Don't expect this document to protect you. A pilot recently showed me 14 sections of the FOM that OX ignores and violates regularly. (Just to rub our noses in it, the DFO quotes parts of the FOM - the parts that support his requirements - to B757 pilots and then complains that B757 pilots don't know the FOM well enough)
Pay: The CEO (Udom) unilaterally cut our pay by $500 / month last month. Watch this space. We do not have a contract, so he can do whatever he wants. All you can do is leave - with 1 months notice, of course.
1 Year Bonus: There are currently 10 pilots at OX who are owed their 1 year bonus ($4500 for Captains - $2500 for Copilots). They have not been paid, and I doubt that they will be in the foreseeable future. Several pilots who were owed the bonus have left and never received it.
Aircraft Defects: Well, what can I say about aircraft defects? We have them. One aircraft has had 54 snags since March 1, 2005. Learn to live with them. They are written up incorrectly, or just ignored. If a part exceeds the limit, they will write it up as fixed, or swap the parts to another aircraft. I had the ASI fail on me on one takeoff in one aircraft, it was written up, and then the next day the same thing happened to me on another aircraft – come to find out they had swapped the unserviceable ASI to another aircraft and not told anybody. OTB's right engine stagnates at 43% N3 and the EGT shoots up through 570 (the limit) about 10 seconds later. This happens about a third of the time and has been happening for about 6 or 8 months now and it looks like we are accepting it rather than fixing it (the engine starts 2 out of three times, so no problem)
Legality: Which brings us to the legality of it all. We fly ETOPS in non-ETOPS aircraft; RVSM in non-RVSM aircraft; RNP-10 in non-RNP-10 aircraft. We takeoff over weight (although it looks good on paper because we up the taxi burn, lower the passenger weight, ask the mechanic to put more fuel on the aircraft than is reflected in the paperwork, use headwinds that aren't there) - that is both over structural limit weight, and also over the runway limit weight. Our takeoff performance charts (if we have them for the airport we are at - often we just use the Bangkok performance figures even though we might be in Africa) do not include obstacle clearance - this is in places like Chiang Mai and Kathmandu. We take off without the legal fuel to reach our destination (ask about the southbound Japan charters).
Rostering / Last Months Roster: Last month (July) Captains flew an average of 21 days, were on Standby an additional 6 days; and had 4 days off (Standby means that you have to be able to get to the airport now - Usually when you are called out on Standby you get the phone call with less than an hour’s notice to departure time). First officers were roughly similar. This month they haven't issued a roster, so there is no telling what the final result will be, the same. And, of course, you receive no pay for a standby day unless you are actually called out.
Work permit: You may, or may not get one. About 2/3's of the pilots have one. You certainly won't get it before you start work and probably not within the first four months. Without one you are working illegally (and subject to imprisonment, although that is exceptionally unlikely - except maybe in the event of an incident).
Many of you may have heard that the DFO looks after us. This is old news, the old DFO stood up for his principles, and the pilot group. He works for PBAir now. The new DFO is much more a company man.
Having said all of the above, there are still some very positive aspects to joining OX. First and foremost, Bangkok is a wonderful place to live (if you can stand the traffic, smog, etc). Thais have to be the friendliest people in the world (especially the women). Secondly, this is a great place for a low hour guy to build some time. The management know and accept that this is a transitional company: FO's with no jet time can build their 500 hours of jet and move on to another job (in the last year this has included Eva, China Airlines and Royal Brunei) ; FO's with jet time but no jet captain time can get a fairly quick upgrade (make sure that you check out the upgrade requirements - something like 3000 hours on jets greater than 100,000lbs) and then move on (although no one has done that yet). If you are into drinking - there is a drinking crowd; if you are into families, there are pilots who have brought their families; socially, OX has a good group of people.
If you should decide to join OX, you will most certainly be welcomed by the pilot group. The CP and DFO (who have received a bad rap here) are very nice people (they just have a job to do and they are going to do it). You need to decide now (I mean before moving to BKK) that you are going to do the flight, because the standards here are not the same as in the majors - you need to know that you are going to do the flight despite the MEL book, FOM, Regulations, etc.
Same category as Phuket Air, apparently. Well done, Udom and Namphon.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 10:02 am on Sep. 10, 2005
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hankamazon
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For about 700 bahts or more, you can fly Emirates.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 11:56 am on Sep. 11, 2005
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diegobangkok
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OX is the worst airline I have ever flown. kenya airline and uzbek airlines were better.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:41 am on Sep. 13, 2005
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ColoradoGuy
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I took them once, left on time, arrived on time.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:31 am on Sep. 13, 2005
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samsri
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Shoke... I could not believe your information. Just unbelievable. Our company has been involved with OX a while ago, but as so many other suppliers, didn't get paid. They came up with the best excuses I've ever heared of. I just couldn't stand it any longer and we scraped the whole issue. They've tried to sue us but of course without really knowing the contracts they have signed. Reading your post I understand why he doesn't want to make contracts with the pilots - out of my own experience I can tell you - he doesn't read them (that's what he told us) and if he really reads before signing them - he just ignores them - or to use his own word "I give a shit - f*** the contracts".
My question is - if he doesn't pay suppliers like us (and so many others) - does he pay suppliers that deliver spare parts for their airplanes - or even worse, does he ever buy spare-parts at all?
You better One-Two-FlyWithOthers
It's a petty for some of the excellent, friendly and hardworking staff at Orient-Thai.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:41 am on Sep. 13, 2005
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ColoradoGuy
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United Airlines has also not paid many of their suppiers the full amount they are due. If I was one of the suppliers that had not been paid, I would not be happy with THAT airline and probably would not fly them.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 10:24 am on Sep. 14, 2005
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black cats
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Just arrived in Hong Hong today on Philippine Airways and the flights were top notch. Best Asian airline I've used so far. Took an airbus out of San Francisco and 13.5 hours later landed in Manila.
The above news doesn't surprise me....airlines are high cost, low profit and have to be brutally competitive to survive. I've know pilots who came back into the Air Force because the commercial world was that bad.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:06 am on Sep. 15, 2005
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