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haam sup
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Marco:
"Anyway, if some of it is true, with any new regulation there is new way to go around it."
While what you say is true for the fringes of the expat population, who appear to be the actual whipping-boys du jour, the guys who want to invest in the country, and retain their assets and investment, may not take it so lightly.
There is a LOT of denial going around, but I really think things will change, at LEAST for Thaksin's tenure, if not longer. ÝBig changes.
They want our money as tourists, but they want 'family friendly' to replace (or at least supress) night life. ÝAnd they don't seem to perceive the value of farang-owned business, if there IS such a thing. ÝWhether this is an accurate reading of a wave of public opinion, or a fanatic belief on the part of the big boys, remains to be seen. ÝThe T man is DEFINITELY popular just now...
This, plus the selling of VIP Preferred cards, at Bt1Million, is a STRONG indicator of who they want to reside in LOS. Definitely NOT guys just getting by on a teacher's salary, nor barstool warmers living on the cheap.
Those who think that all will quiet down and be 'back to normal' after APEC are re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...
haam sup
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:22 am on Sep. 5, 2003
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ringthebells
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I am arranging...
I think it will, it always has.
rtb.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 12:41 am on Sep. 5, 2003
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Kryptonite
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As long as I hold a Work Permit, I am not really that worried.
And like Hammer said, there will just be a new way around the changed laws. Too much money at stake.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:44 am on Sep. 5, 2003
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fastmover
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In Asia, low ranking government officials are often used as sounding boards for proposed changes in policy, especially when related to foreign policy.
Reactions from those affected are taken into account ,primarily related to how business ie foreign investment, night be effected.
Living now in China, I have noticed that Asian countries that were previously lax in tracking foreigners, both for living situations and income tax obligations are starting to make use of the ability of computer programs tied into visa #'s to profile visitors with the country.
Asian, as well as the rest of the world's countries have the support of major nations relative to the anti-terrorist drive. The ability of Western countries to employ unified departments of government to control foreigners within the country and the funds available for that exercise far exceeds less developed countries.
Manipulation of visas in an old game. The fact remains that positive foreigners with the means to be an asset to the country in question, have no difficulty meeting the regulations required. They usually bring foreign capital into the country, or provide skills that enhance a countries march forward into a modern economy.
Those who want to stay in a country simply for their own 'selfish' desires will find themselves short of accomodation, visa wise, in the future.
The attitude that many have as 'white men of suspicious means' is somewhat colonial in thinking if not practice. And unfortunately there were real colonials before us that sowed seeds of distrust if not outright hate, a few hundred years ago.
America, and others, are basically in the same process right now. And no doubt those of colour and/or different clothing are subject to profiling and visa requirements above and beyond those that we are subjected to now in some Asian countries.
Seeking the easy visa options that less than legal offices offer is because we have a desire to save money, time and we basically have a large dose of disrespect for complying with the rules, even if those rules shift from day to day, or officer to officer.
Why do I take this stance?
Because I realize that my existance in Asia is only as good as the validity of the visa in my passport.
Any of my compatriots who 'cut corners', endanger my ability to extend or renew my visa.
Or new regulations more difficult to comply with are formulated and made policy by well meaning officials for the protection of the country, because of those whose cut corners.
If certain policies affect your lifestyle within a country, one should try to positively voice your opinion to mainstream officials in order to enlighten them.
Sure.
But if your lifestyle were all that positive for the country in question, would there be a problem in the first place?
It is a complete myth that any country goes out of its way to prevent those who provide positive assets to a country, from gaining logical access to that country.
It is a myth based on the arrogance of those few who think freedom is transferable or can be interpreted with the same meaning from country to country.
That is why a country as bold as America can't sell its concept of freedom. Freedom doesn't travel well.
Legal visas do.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 1:13 am on Sep. 5, 2003
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Vancouver Jay
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Nice post, fm. With the chickens now coming home to roost for people who've cheated the system it's hard to feel sorry for them. I've always made the trudge to the border even though it's seemed st the time a waste of time and money. In retrospect it seems a wise investment because there's not one dodgy stamp or even a day of overstay in my passport.
There's a point to be made about admittance stamps. Some are bogus like "B008" mentioned above. I can't find a single instance of a Thai admit stamp starting with a zero; might be possible, but I doubt it. Others are genuine stamps, just issued without the passport holder being present. Whether these irregularities can be traced is debatable.
The advice to dump your passport now if you have any dodgy stamps is probably correct. I know that EVERY time I've gone against the prevailing wisdom of the board I've had a bad outcome.
The main thrust of the new regulations seems to me to be a little bit off. There's a whole class of people who get screwed over. People who work remotely with clients in USA and Europe but live in Thailand are really gonna get the shaft and there's no good reason for it. They still spend their money in Thailand and help the economy, they don't take jobs away from Thais and they shouldn't be subject to double taxation.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 1:32 am on Sep. 5, 2003
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hzink
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Quote: from Kryptonite on 12:44 pm on Sep. 5, 2003
And like Hammer said, there will just be a new way around the changed laws. Too much money at stake.
Honestly, I'm just watching this from the sidelines - but regarding 'too much money at stake', if p4p farang-based income is really just a minor fraction of the tourist trade, then that 'loss', in all reality, can easily be made up by a larger influx of 'family friendly' tourism. Or so they thinking might go (and I'm sure the case can be made on paper).
Now, Vegas has also tried that approach, and has failed miserably, and all the casinos that invested millions to give themselves a family-oriented make-over have seen no difference in income levels (if not, a drop) and they are currently ALL undergoing massive changes to change themselves back into an 'adult' oriented, more raunchy angled venue -- and revenue is booming.
So, it is very possible that misguided gov't folks are making the same assumptions, and if that is the case, they will undoubtedly learn the same lesson their western counterparts have learned - while at the same time, effective work-arounds to whatever laws they come up will be figured out.
Best,
Harry
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:36 am on Sep. 5, 2003
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haam sup
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Harry,
I ALMOST put forth the same argument (Las Vegas), but it fails miserably because of the relatively small contribution of the farang P4P to the Thai economy. Las Vegas (and Reno, the Pattaya of Nevada  ), in contrast, provide a HUGE portion of the state's income.
And the inflated 'sex-tourism' reputation of Thailand may have the effect of keeping families away. Still, it's hard for me to envision a typical US family being enticed away from Disney World for even Phuket - we ARE talking about a third-world country, 20+ hours away. (I know, there ARE countries other than the US with tourists...)
And, Krypt, it was a quote from Marco. My point is that guys who aren't rich, and aren't lucky enough to work for international companies, but want to live in Thailand DO have to worry. Yes, there are exceptions, but it will be tougher for most.
And rtb, I think you're delusional.
haam sup
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:47 am on Sep. 5, 2003
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Marco
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Quote: from haam sup on 12:22 pm on Sep. 5, 2003
They want our money as tourists, but they want 'family friendly' to replace (or at least supress) night life. ÝAnd they don't seem to perceive the value of farang-owned business, if there IS such a thing. Ý
haam sup
The stance seems to be "if you are a foreigner you must be a tourist or a serious investor". Farang owned businesses will not face problems if they are big enough. The target is the farang who wants to stay in Thailand for the lifestyle and set up a business on the side to pay the bills and make a small profit.
Not many Thais can invest 30million bahts, but quite a few can setup a 2million baht business and be in direct competition with the farang owned guesthouses, restaurants or small exporters. So why not wipe out the competition by kicking it out of the country? That's not fair but the interest of the country comes first.
To put this in perspective I would say it is pretty much the same everywhere. I can tell you getting a long term visa or a work permit in the US is not a piece of cake, even for a European. You have to prove your job cannot be done by an American. Isn't it the same idea ?
There are no countries which grant residence permits to foreigners who don't have a strong justification to be there. Only we think Thailand is a poor country so they should welcome us because we are rich.
I don't like the new trend either but I cannot blame them for doing what most of the other countries do.
I doubt the small farang-owned businesses are really significant to the Thai economy. On the other side the popularity reward for the government is huge. So it is here to stay.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:25 am on Sep. 5, 2003
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Mr Alan
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"That is why a country as bold as America can't sell its concept of freedom. Freedom doesn't travel well."
The concept of freedom in the USA (specifically, the ability of people to immigrate to the US, either legally or illegally, either permanently or temporarily), has been more economically or politically motivated, rather than based on any "concept" of freedom.
Lax immigration laws provided a cheap labor force to enhance the standard of living of citizens and to enhance company profits (particularly smaller businesses and farms). Political parties (particularly liberals) in the US are always looking for new recruits to alter the demographics in favor of their chances in elections, thus discouraging enforcement of immigration laws under the pretext of ìfreedomî and ìcivil rights.î Even the Republicans had recently proposed amnesty for illegal immigrants from Mexico, as they made political inroads into that group.
But after 9/11, the thinking about that has changed significantly, both in the US and elsewhere.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 2:39 am on Sep. 5, 2003
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Mr Alan
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I think that Las Vegas has changed a lot over the last 20 years. Much more family friendly than before.
Although there are more topless revues at the big resorts, Las Vegas is nothing like it was 20 years ago when the governor of Colorado once remarked that one in every eight females in Las Vegas was a prostitute.
Maybe the large resorts have not increased their profits with the orientation more toward family activities, but that is more because of competition from the growing number of resorts and hotel rooms. Without the changes, their revenues and profits would have decreased.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:51 am on Sep. 5, 2003
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