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slowx
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Quote: from Stueyb on 9:59 pm on June 3, 2005
One thing I have noticed about BKK property developers / condo architects is that they seem to assume that big is beautiful. I've noticed a distinct lack of nice proportioned 1-2 bed units. It seems to me they either build blocks with horrible small one room units for the cheap end of the market or the other extreme of huge 3-5 bedroom units for the hi-so's. It seems almost impossible to find a decent place for a single man or couple without kids who want a bit of space without requiring an indoor football pitch.
Hi Stueyb,
You can check out Urbana Langsuan that has just been completed. A couple of 85 sqm 2BR units are still left that can be bought directly from the developer for slightly below THB 60k per sqm.
I like the design of the building. 39 storeys with wave roof design. 2 level fitness with swimming pool right up there in the clouds.
But bear in mind its only 30 years lease..
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:12 am on June 4, 2005
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magnum
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SlowX's comment about the 30-year land lease of Urbana merits emphasizing.
Recently published market research shows but three for-sale condominium projects on leasehold land in Bangkok - this is a new product in Thailand. Urbana, Sky Villa and new condominium just coming to market off of Chong Nongsi BTS (developed by Quality House, I think), whose name I cannot recall.
The price discount of condominiums on leasehold land to condominiums on freehold land is reliably established at 25-30%.
Few, if any, Thais will buy these units for their personal use - they want to pass property to their future generations [the deeply rooted "land as legacy" culture common throughout Asia]. Sales of these units to Thais are overwhelmingly for their commercial use as landlords, not their personal use.
As leased properties, Thai landlords [even owners of premium properties] are notorious for not paying their share of monthly common area maintenance fees, so the building runs down.
With somewhere between little-to-no recourse, the property managers are notorious for allowing them to get away with not paying. Suggest the authority for enforcement come from an owner's committee, and not be left up to the juristic authority [the juristic would probably be grateful to avoid this unpleasant task].
A key concern should be to whom you sell the unit when you are prepared to leave. Farang will buy it - but, at a discount since the remaining land leasehold reduces the remaining useable life of the condominium. Thais will NOT buy it for their personal use. Thais WILL buy it for letting out, but again, at a discount becasue of the then foreshortened leasehold term.
I've not checked this, but, mortgage financing on leasehold land condominiums might have limitations. For the first buyer, this might be no problem. But, more so a problem to the future buyer who might need financing - again, making a future exit for you risky.
If you intend to own forever and have no concern for passing it along to children, you can get a good deal on these units - IF the management has the will to enforce payment of common area maintenance fees by delinquint landlord-owners.
But, this is R&D - for-sale condominiums on leasehold land is new to Thailand.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 5:50 am on June 4, 2005
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richie rev
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So what happens to the apartment at the end of the 30 years ?
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:44 am on June 4, 2005
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BigDUSA
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Quote: from richie rev on 6:56 am on June 5, 2005
So what happens to the apartment at the end of the 30 years ?
Reverts back to the condo owner and you are out on the street.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 9:04 am on June 4, 2005
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manowar
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Do not buy any property on leasehold estate. It's no different than leasing a property with the two exceptions that (1) you are "stuck" with a 30 year lease and (2) you are paying big money upfront for having the priviledge to get "stuck" on the 30 year lease. The value of your condo/house on leasehold estate goes down as it gets closer to the end of the lease term. Only during hyper-speculative market will a leasehold condo/house goes up in value ( to wit, China real estate in the last few years). But even it does, it's only temporary because eventually, the value will goes down to zero at the term of the lease. Only buy freehold estate.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:57 am on June 4, 2005
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slowx
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After 30 years, there should be no difference between a freehold condo or a leasehold one. both will be too old... (my freehold place at sathorn is abt 7 years old and I cannot see myself staying here for 3 more years. so I am selling it now)
i had the same negative idea initially abt leasehold condos but went ahead with buying one at urbana langsuan after making some calculations.
rental perspective, tenant will not care if it is leasehold or freehold.. so u make use of the 40% discount to freehold to achieve a better return on investment compared to the guy across the road who bought a freehold 2 years ago..
assigning zero value to my unit at end of 30 years, my breakeven cost per month is only thb 14k for 85 sqm.. I should be able to rent it out for between 45k - 50k pm.
the good thing is that there will a serviced apt run by frasier suites there as well.. similiar size rooms will go for close to 90k pm..
if I am lazy, all I need to do is to replicate the serviced apt's interior design and soft furnishings and my unit will be better value for money compare with the serviced apt.
having frasier suites there (they signed a 10 years mgmt contract I think) will at least make sure the building do not run down too fast..
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:09 pm on June 4, 2005
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manowar
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Quote: from slowx on 8:21 am on June 4, 2005
After 30 years, there should be no difference between a freehold condo or a leasehold one. both will be too old... (my freehold place at sathorn is abt 7 years old and I cannot see myself staying here for 3 more years. so I am selling it now)
i had the same negative idea initially abt leasehold condos but went ahead with buying one at urbana langsuan after making some calculations.
rental perspective, tenant will not care if it is leasehold or freehold.. so u make use of the 40% discount to freehold to achieve a better return on investment compared to the guy across the road who bought a freehold 2 years ago..
assigning zero value to my unit at end of 30 years, my breakeven cost per month is only thb 14k for 85 sqm.. I should be able to rent it out for between 45k - 50k pm.
the good thing is that there will a serviced apt run by frasier suites there as well.. similiar size rooms will go for close to 90k pm..
if I am lazy, all I need to do is to replicate the serviced apt's interior design and soft furnishings and my unit will be better value for money compare with the serviced apt.
having frasier suites there (they signed a 10 years mgmt contract I think) will at least make sure the building do not run down too fast..
Most real esate pros make money by combining the two potentially upside components very unique to commercial real estate, ie. income and appreciation. As a matter of fact, the appreciation part of the real estate play is usually the bigger payoff of the two. If you take out the appreciation component, then you have to evaluate whether just the income component make real esate investment superior to other type of investments available in the marketplace. Do not forget to take out the time spent, the costs of money, the maintenance of the building, the depreciation of your asset.......etc. I say it probably does not make any sense if you figure all that in. The only enterprise on leasehold land that has been known to return favorably to the investor is something like a hotel, shopping center, office building........etc. Even that, it's really not very common and not embraced by most pros.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:32 pm on June 4, 2005
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DaffyDuck
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The other question, like in the case of the MET or the Urbana, would be what the cost of the association fees / maintenance fees would be, additionally, each month.
Does anyone know?
This is an awesomely informative thread, by the way, particularly as I am considering the purchase of real estate in BKK this year -- and a condominium is really the forerunner of the style of property I am considering for this year, as the first purchase.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:16 pm on June 4, 2005
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Abrak
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Quote: from DaffyDuck on 9:28 am on June 5, 2005
The other question, like in the case of the MET or the Urbana, would be what the cost of the association fees / maintenance fees would be, additionally, each month.
Does anyone know?
This is an awesomely informative thread, by the way, particularly as I am considering the purchase of real estate in BKK this year -- and a condominium is really the forerunner of the style of property I am considering for this year, as the first purchase.
The monthly service fees vary from about Bt20 - Bt40/sqm. So you are looking between US$75 to US$150 per month for a 150sqm apartment. This figure is low by international standards partially reflecting low Thai costs.
IMHO these service fees are TOO low which is one of the reasons why many condos are in bad shape after 10 years. This service fee goes into a sinking fund and is used to pay for services - guards, reception etc.. as well as on going maintenance of the common facilities.
I would advise going with a condo with high monthly service costs although this does put off some Thai buyers.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 9:51 pm on June 4, 2005
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slowx
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Quote: from manowar on 3:44 am on June 5, 2005[br
Most real esate pros make money by combining the two potentially upside components very unique to commercial real estate, ie. income and appreciation. As a matter of fact, the appreciation part of the real estate play is usually the bigger payoff of the two. If you take out the appreciation component, then you have to evaluate whether just the income component make real esate investment superior to other type of investments available in the marketplace. Do not forget to take out the time spent, the costs of money, the maintenance of the building, the depreciation of your asset.......etc. I say it probably does not make any sense if you figure all that in. The only enterprise on leasehold land that has been known to return favorably to the investor is something like a hotel, shopping center, office building........etc. Even that, it's really not very common and not embraced by most pros.
definitely true on the appreciation point but 3 years ago definitely..
my opinion is that the market is toppish and factoring the supply coming onsteam in the next 2 years, I dont think it will appreciate that much in next 2 years...
i will wait for 3 years before looking for a leasehold.. in meantime hoping for a slight dip..
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:58 am on June 5, 2005
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