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Hermanolobo
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How do you make a small fortune in Thailand?
Start off with a large one !
I pulled the article below from SCT. It was originally posted on Stickman's page. Depressingly I would guess that it is mostly correct. But I am not qualified to comment. I hope some of the wise heads on this board could give me an objective view. Thanks.
Stickman's guide to Bangkok
Reader's Submissions:
Don't Move To Thailand
By ÝRoscoe Johnson
I have some advice to any westerners out there contemplating moving to Thailand.
Ý
If you are rich and are sensible with money, then go ahead. ÝIf an international company or similar offers you a high salary job in Thailand then fine. ÝIf your are retired or have steady funds from aboard and want to live modestly on those funds, go ahead, but watch
yourself. ÝAnd if you're a young dude travelling around the world, and you want to spend some time in Thailand teaching or whatever for experience, then that's OK too.
Ý
If you don't fall into these categories then "don't" consider it for a moment. ÝMany middle aged westerners in particular (including professionals) like the idea of living there, having a business or making some money and "enjoying life" in Thailand. ÝBut very few make
it. (Forget about western restaurant or bar owners and alike you might meet in Thailand boasting about their good life there. ÝIt is common for faltering foreigners to keep up appearances). ÝMostly they end up broke
or crazed, sometimes both, then they leave. ÝThai business, visa and residency laws get you in the end. ÝThe "Thai way" will get you in the end. ÝHave a minor run-in with a wealthy or important Thai and your
status and possibly your life will be at risk. ÝTheir whole culture is geared around making sure that foreigners pursuing individual efforts are not successful. ÝIt's ingrained in them from an early age to believe that they are the never-colonized master race of Asia (yes they really think that) and their mythology runs so deep you'll never budge it. Ý
Remember, in Thailand you'll never have any real business, legal or ownership rights. ÝBut Thai's can go to your country (very possibly) and
buy and own anything they can get their hands on (because of the more tolerant business laws). ÝTo Thai's, this is just further evidence of how clever they are, and how foolish are the foreigners to go to
Thailand.
Ý
Remember too, that Thailand is dominated by a comparatively small military-industrial elite. ÝThey have all the power and most of the wealth in the country. ÝThe idea of western foreigners living in the
country and achieving wealth and status through individual entrepreneurial efforts is seen as a threat to the hegemony that they have over the Thai underclass - the bulk of the population. ÝFor this reason, it is never allowed to happen.
Ý
Think of Thailand, for westerners, as being a bit like a casino. ÝA casino is a place with a touch of excitement, the lure of good fortune / the good life, and a place for fun, even with a bit of a risk. ÝGo to a casino every now and then for fun and that's OK. ÝGo there everyday
all-day and you will ultimately lose, because the House Advantage will always get you. ÝSo it is in Thailand. ÝThe Thai "House Advantage" will get you. ÝThey make sure of it.
Ý
Of course, if going to Thailand with all your money and slowly losing it and ending up teaching English for a pittance (because that's about all you can do), either illegally or working legally but being treated like
a serf by Thai institutions, appeals to you then go ahead. ÝAnd running around the country several times a year getting visas, or always being at the mercy of authorities on visa matters might be your bag. ÝIf so,
then go ahead, at least you'll be able to spend your nights at cheap restaurants sharing your impoverishment and frustration with other
exploited western teachers. ÝIf not, think seriously.
Ý
In case you are thinking, let me say that I am not a former go-go bar owner gone bust, I have not lost my all doing business with Thai's, no I haven't been cheated of everything by a bar-girl, no I haven't been
reduced to the indignity of teaching English for a pittance. ÝI have my own money, have spent a lot of time in Thailand, and have done some business there, have observed the experiences of a lot of foreigners,
can see what goes on, and have enough concern to want to tell others about it.
Ý
If my words can prevent even one westerner of modest means from selling up and going to "enjoy life" in Thailand (and getting shafted in the
end) then that will be something. ÝDon't make the mistake of thinking that as a foreigner (even with professional skills) you can "make a contribution" to Thailand, no matter how good your intentions or needed your skills may be. ÝYour contribution will *never* be welcomed, only your money. ÝThere is a saying in Thai that captures it well: "farang
roo mark my dee" - foreigners who know too much [about Thailand] are no good. ÝGullible tourists, however, are great.
Ý
So, go to Thailand as a tourist if you like, enjoy what you enjoy there, but don't be taken in by the culture or people, as many westerners have, and don't under any circumstances give up anything back home to go and
stay there unless you are financially secure for life, or know exactly what you are doing.
Ý
There is a tradition of resident foreigners in Thailand not telling you the truth about the country because they don't like to admit to themselves and to others about the mistake they have made in moving there. ÝBut especially now, with the financial mess Thailand has got
itself into through a mixture of greed, incompetence, arrogance and corruption, and the prospect of difficult times ahead (to say the least) it is time for plain speaking.
Ý
A final comment to anyone who strongly disagrees with these comments. ÝUnless you have lived, worked and conducted business in Thailand for many years, I'm not interested. ÝThe views of "oh how can you say that,
Thailand is really great" 2 week tourists carry no weight with those of us who know Thailand and Thai's well.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:32 am on Jan. 11, 2003
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Packripper
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^ pretty much correct (or I should say, I pretty much agree with the opinion above) EXCEPT for that silly master race or superiority complex thing. There are those with superiority complexes, sure..... But more likely when it seems the whole country or particular individuals are set against you (as in the case of jousting with important people or 'discrimination'), it's not really an anti-foreigner reasoning. It's more of a pro-local or pro 'my personal interests' reasoning.
There ARE foreigners who are successful here. But I do have to agree that a lot of them are those who started with a lot of capital (or special connections) to begin with.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 4:06 pm on Jan. 11, 2003
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haam sup
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Hermanlobo,
Right up front, I've never personally done business in Thailand, so keep that in mind, as you read my take on Roscoe's 'advice'.
There is more than a bit of 'sour grapes' in what the author has to say. ÝAnd the bitterness would tell me that he has somehow been burned.
His comparison to a casino, where the house has the advantage, SOUNDS logical, until you look at it closer.
Business is NOT a roll of the dice, at least not successful business. ÝAnyone who dreams up an idea, and just opens a business IS rolling the dice, and can expect to lose, whether in the US, or in a foreign country. ÝThe fact is, however, that the 'house rake' is bigger in Thailand, and the risks and uncertainties of doing business are greater as well.
A well developed business plan should take all these things into account. ÝJust saying that you didn't know about the risks, including the cultural problems, the corruption, etc. is failure to conduct due diligence.
Judging from Roscoe's attitude toward Thais, it isn't surprising that he expects to have hassles with minor officials and wealthy businessmen. ÝHe sounds pissed that he is not doing business with the Rotarians.
That being said, he makes valid points, particularly about farang expectations. ÝYou're not going to go to Thailand and have people beating a path to your door. ÝAnd you need to be very sure about WHY you want to be there.
We all daydream about going to our office overlooking the river, doing a couple of hours work, and spending the rest of the day chasing skirts and living off the fat of the land. ÝGreat work if you can get it, and some who work for the foreign companies in Thailand DO live that charmed life - for a while.
If you are work-driven, and can lead a moderate lifestyle, I KNOW it is possible to run a non-bar business in Thailand, and do pretty well. ÝI have friends who do just that. ÝThese friends without exception speak Thai well, socialize with Thais, and are open to Thai life. ÝThai life may not initially be open to them, but they chip away cheerfully, and don't take their setbacks personally.
My personal preference would be to have something with assets in the US, and a branch in Thailand (which I would run, of course), and to do something that brings some currency into the Kingdom. ÝLike export from Thailand. ÝThis gives the government an excuse to let you stay, even if they look down their noses at you. ÝInclude all the various outstretched hands as part of the cost of doing business, and spread the wealth around, where it will do the most good. ÝInstead of butting heads with folks, grease their palms, and ingratiate yourself, but with the RIGHT people. ÝLearn about saving face, and try to subjugate your macho side.
I know a guy who had a deal pending, and hit a couple of last-minute snags. ÝThe deal wasn't that big, but would have given him a much-needed cash infusion, and kept him going a bit longer. ÝHe was so tired of the outstretched hands that he decided to draw his line in the sand over a bottle of Johnnie Black! ÝNo deal.
If you really want to get along, remember this Thai phrase: "Tan khao reu yang?" - "Have you eaten rice yet?". ÝThat, and a bottle of Johnnie, or even a piece of fruit, may make the difference.
Unless, of course, you are arguing with the folks on this board. ÝThen it's balls to the wall!
What do you think?
haam sup
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:32 pm on Jan. 11, 2003
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thaiprivateeye
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Agreed - not the most reliable place for a farang to open a business - however if you are keen, have had a little to do with a company - http://www.sunbeltasia.com - who seem to turn over a number of local business's, and also have them fairly thoroughly checked out.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 7:15 am on Jan. 12, 2003
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Hermanolobo
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Haam sap,
That is, in my opinion a very well thought out reply.
I find it encouraging and not negative like the article.
Thank you !
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 7:35 am on Jan. 12, 2003
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Kaymanx
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Also, isn't it fairly commonplace in mostly any country to have the government looking at you "down their nose" as Haam put it ? I guess in any country, foreigners who take away employment opportunities would be thoroughly unwelcome. Those that invest and provide employment to locals would be welcome but still looked at askance for fear that they are probably taking away more foreign exchange than they brought in. Okay, a rich country may not bother too much with this investment repatriation bit, but if the rich country is stretched too far and for too long, even it will have to sit up and take notice of this "troublesome" foreigner. Ý
So, a foreign investor in any clime or land doubtlessly is aware of this global reality. The only difference is about local idiosyncracies, business customs, cultural difficulties, etc -- which again it is the foreign investor's responsibility to acquaint himself/herself with. So, IMHO, no need to run down Thais in general. You are a second class citizen anyway once you leave your home country . Ý
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:59 am on Jan. 12, 2003
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Barrow
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A little off the tread. Is there anybody doing a mail box etc. for the guy who hits BKK 2 or 3 times a year, with good friday services, small storage, drop off your clothes to your hotel the day before you arrive to have have them wash and pressed.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:50 pm on Jan. 12, 2003
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Marco
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Starting a business in Thailand is indeed not easy for a foreigner but far easier than in Vietnam or even China for example.
If you are good and smart you may not fail but why Thailand ? If it is pure business and no lifestyle maybe there are better opportuinities elsewhere. If it is also for the lifestyle, well, to start a new business successfully you have to be dedicated to work only, not to beer bars.
So like said Haam Sup maybe it is why so many get burned : in the first place they came for fun not for the business and they end up screwing bar girls instead of working on their business plan.
From what I have seen with many friends losing their shirts and very few running successful business, along with dedication and lot of time spent the key is a good (local) partner.
This means a reliable partner that will not throw you out once the business is running succesfully and someone with good connections.
You have to know that nothing is easier for your competitor than hiring muscle or policemen to kick you out of the market and eventually out of the country.
As they say "If you cannot beat them join them" so my only advice would be to have strong Thai partners at some level.
Unfortunately in any country in the world, running a business while fully enjoying life is indeed like winning the lottery.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:43 am on Jan. 13, 2003
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Hermanolobo
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From stories I have heard Thailand is no different
from a lot of other countries.
The point about not working and chasing women
seems valid !
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 11:51 am on Jan. 13, 2003
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