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chateaujade
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The comparison to member clubs is not an apt one.
Member clubs sell you a membership for a lump sum for which you get X-number of bottles of top shelp booze of your choice with your name on them locked in a cabinet, and you get X-number of buyouts (barfines by another name) of the girls. ANY of the girls. Not a specific girl chosen in advance.
That's because the girls aren't and can't be, locked in the cabinets with the booze.
The price per bottle of the booze is usually roughly equivalent to the 'retail' price per drink x the number of drinks in the bottle, i.e., you are paying 4000-5000 for a bottle of Johnny Walker Black, or Swing, or maybe a bit more for Blue. A lot more than the supermarket price.
So the member club is getting the same profit that would have accrued if they just sold you drinks, but they are getting it in advance and as a lump sum.
Same with the buyouts.
This is great positive cashflow for the MC, and must have been dreamed up by a Chinese. (I say this in admiration.)
Succesful member clubs succeed precisely because they are selling 'face', prestige, to their members, who are almost all Asian. These places are opulent, exquisitely appointed, with a variety of decors and themes in the larger ones (like Your Place on Soi 55) plus of course the VIP rooms, overall they are a universe away from the crumbling tawdry honkytonk of the Pong or Nana or Cowboy where bare springs rip the seat of your pants when you sit in a booth and holes in the upholstery which have been there longer than Youngexpat has been alive are big enough to swallow a Mini Cooper.
Totally nothing to do with the 'buying a (nonexistant) contract' SCAM.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:07 am on Aug. 25, 2002
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Casanova
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Simplify the matter. Ask yourself what are you aftering by buying out the BG contract? What had been elaborated here makes sense but what made sense to you? In reality are you targeting a long future with the BG or merely you think you will save money this way. B15000 is alot of money to spend on TG/BG but to the BG and the club may just be another wise business move. Aftering buying out a contract, the BG may change club and would you buy out another contract? She may just disappear for a while. Also she may know what she is up and not to loose out to you. Between she and the club there maybe many claimed contracts (so they can split future earnings) and many people like you may do the same buying out contracts. Of course, after the first buyout she also have special arrangement with the club and she is freelancing with the club or with any other clubs, she feels like working for at night. Who is the ultimate loser? Don't bother, too many contract in the market.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 6:42 am on Aug. 25, 2002
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chateaujade
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What bar or bars at NEP is pulling this shit? Is it Johnny's group? Or David Walls' group? Or the police owned bars? If no one wants to name names, just say if the ownership is Thai or farang?
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:52 am on Aug. 25, 2002
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MrJoe
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I have to say that chateau's obvious disgust is neither displaced nor inappropriate; I've always been outraged by those employers who try to capitalize on a BGs own time; ie the bars that try to catch thier girls going with guys after closing etc. As CJE pointed out, these girls don't belong to the bars-where do they get off selling a non existent contract? Ý(If they have a contract, what does it garuantee the BG? Oh yeah, all the benefits and job security.)
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 8:10 am on Aug. 25, 2002
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chateaujade
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I might add that 3 of my better Dommes over the years have quit to get married. Two married men they met here at the House. One with my blessing and one sneaking behind my back. The third married a fellow she met socially elsewhere.
But, I most certainly never tried to ransom the girls to their to-be husbands.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 8:27 am on Aug. 25, 2002
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cmore
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Hey guys, well I can see that this topic has brought on a lot of negative feelings from some of the brothers and I apologize to anyone who may have taken offense to what I was trying to say. However I feel that some of the negative feelings were caused because some of the brothers read what I had to say but did not fully understand it's meaning so before I drop this topic I feel I have the right to fully explain my concept to the best of my abilities. I will try my best to be as clear as possible and all I ask is that before the brothers offer a reply to please read carefully what it is I'm saying so that there won't be any misunderstanding. First off I agree with brother CJE about the use of the word contract. That was a poor choice of words for me to choose. A more apt word would probably be obligation instead. I was not trying to suggest buying a BG from the bar because even though that kind of thing may or may not take place in some of the bars and MP's in the Thai sector I would add my sense of outrage to every brother on this fine forum if it were discovered that something like that was taking place in the falang sector as well. What I was only asking is would it be possible to satisfy the bars bar fine quota policy that each lady has to meet in order to receive the higher salary by paying it off in one lump agreed upon sum. Allow me to break this down further so that there will be no misunderstanding. When a bar hires a lady to work as a dancer or hostess or whatever he is agreeing to pay her a basic salary for working there, correct? Now any extra salary she can earn would come from her meeting both a bar fine quota and a drink quota that is set by the bar, also correct? Am I understanding this correctly guys or am I mistaken? If I do understand this correctly then let me try to break this down even further. Let say, only as an example mind you because I have no knowledge about this first hand, that the base salary is 3000 baht per month and she receives that just by showing up for work and on time. Then let's say that if she meets the monthly or weekly bar fine quota she gets an extra (only guessing here guys) say 1500 baht each month and another 1500 baht for meeting the drink quota each month. If all these obligations are met each month she would receive a salary of 6000 baht each month, correct? Now comes the part where my concept comes into play. In order for her to receive the full 6000 baht salary she needs to meet all 3 obligations to the bar first. Oligation #1 show up for work to receive the basic salary. Obligation#2 meet the bar fine quota. Obligation #3 meet the drink quota. What I am suggestion is taking care of obligation #2, the bar fine quota, by offering the bar a lump sum bar fine that could take care of her bar fine obligation for say 6 months (and yes guys I am aware that there would probably have to be a different bar fine obligation fee paid for high season that would be more than for low season). So by paying off her bar fine obligation to the bar she can receive the full 6000 baht salary each month as long as she comes to work and still meets the drink part of her obligation. So what are the long term benefits to such an arrangement (if such an arrangement were at all possible. Remember guys that this is only meant as a what if. My intentions here don't include insulting or upsetting any of my fellow Jedi's)? She would still be able to work and earn her own money, thus helping to relieve some of her boyfriends financial sponsorship responsibilities to her (I said some guys, not all. I would hope that he would continue to send her something extra each month to help make things better for her. Isn't it better to give the lady that you've decided to enter into a relationship with, outside of the bar, a helping hand instead of a handout?), and most important of all by paying off her bar fine obligation she no longer has any reason to go with customers (unless she chooses to, but then she is doing so of her own free will, not out of obligation to meet the bar fine quota) and if she does choose to still go with customers then she has broken the trust that hopefully exist between the two of you and if you were to find out about it then hopefully you would cut your losses and end the relationship. Now let me clear up another misunderstanding about this concept which has been made due to the fact that some of the brothers aren't familiar with brother Cmore's ramblings in other threads. If you'll check in the topic called Falling in Love you'll see lots of post from me on the subject, but if you read them over again you'll notice that I tend to stay away from generalizations about all Thai women. My posts almost always have to do with a few very specific Thai ladies. Why? Because I have no illusions what so ever that most Thai ladies in general once given that first level of trust that all of them deserve to be given, won't end up breaking that trust in time. I would never dare speak about all Thai women because I've never met all Thai women. When I speak about Thai women I'm talking about those very rare ladies who have proven themselves to be worthy of our trust. I've never met any of the ladies that I've commented on, except for my own  , but from the post I've read from the guys who have given them their trust I feel I've gotten to know these ladies well enough to consider myself a great admirer of all of them. What is the point I'm trying to make? It's that I in no way believe that this concept of buying out a BG's bar fine obligation would work with all BG's. It is only meant as a what if for those rare ladies that have proven themselves worthy of our love and respect and trust. I may be weird but I'm not crazy enough to believe that this concept would work with all BG's. Yes some would take advantage of you and you'd be out 15K baht, but if you're sponsoring a BG and you end up being conned out of 100K baht before you finally get wise then I think your heart will be hurting a little too much to be worrying about that extra 15K she took you for. Now before I finally turn this over to you guys for your counter replys allow me to clear up one last misunderstanding about this concept. When I first came up with this concept I used brother ABC's experience as my inspiration for this idea (And I offer my apologies to brother ABC for dragging you into this. No offense intended) and one of the stipulations he mentioned that the mamasan informed him of was the fact that the ladies would be free to leave and go work at another bar at any time. However if you reread my concept you'll notice that I never once mentioned this part of the stipulation. Why? Because the whole idea of doing this is so that the lady in question wouldn't be bored sitting at home waiting for your next visit. She would still be able to work and be able to spend time with her friends which is why part of the agreement you have with her is that she has to continue to remain at that particular bar. The bar where you met her. The bar that you've made the arrangement with in the first place. Her friends are at that bar so going to work at another bar doesn't fit into this agreement. The agreement is with that bar so she must continue to work at that bar. And if she's like brother Balls B's lady where she was well liked by the other BG's and even the owner considered her to be an example to the other ladies, then those rare ladies are the ones that this concept is aimed at. Do we like the thought of our ladies working in a bar showing herself to a bunch of leering foreigners. HELL NO WE DON'T! WHAT A QUESTION TO ASK! But for most of these ladies to continue to work this is all they know and have ever known, but most of them have been doing this for quite a while and they know how to handle themselves pretty well. Yes it would be nice if better paying jobs were available to them outside of the bar industry but because most of them are of the Issan variety and we all know how much they are valued in normal Thai society then they don't have a lot of choices when it comes to how they pay their bills or provide for their families. Some of them don't have much of a choice, but some like my lady and like brother Balls B's lady, who I now consider one of my personal heroes because of her strength and determination, choose to make the choice to struggle and work hard to give up the bar life hopefully for good. How many more of these rare ladies are out there who really want to try and improve their situations even just a little. Wouldn't paying off her bar fine obligtion so that she can still work and be around her friends and have a chance to earn her full salary without actually having to go with customers be a good way to start. Are there no BG's in all of Bangkok who may be worthy of that extra shot at bettering their situation and having the chance to prove that they can be trusted? My what a sad world we live in if that's true. I'll now turn this discussion back over to the brothers, but please show my post the respect it deserves by fully reading and even rereading it (yes I know that could take a couple days) before you add your comments so that you can be reasonably sure of what I'm trying to say to cut down on the misunderstandings. I now realize that this concept could never work under the circumstances but try to remember that this has always been a what if. I have no illusions about having the power to affect change in the LOS. Have at it guys. Peace
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:40 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
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Ballsburstin
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ChateauJade,
I think your anger and outrage are spot on. Why? Because even at the go-go bar that my TG worked, there is another thing going on: If the girl doesn't show up within a certain number of days from the start of the month, then she is docked her month's salary and cannot work there the rest of the month. The girls at her go-go bar also got essentially free rooms above the bar (35 baht per month fee), so the owner wanted them to work. But turn this one upside down: if she can go upcountry for awhile, and then come back and simply show up "on-time" at the start of a new month, this is equivalent to leaving the scene to live with a farang. The net out to the owner is the same, from a cash flow perspective. So there really is no justification for charging these bullshit exit fees. It's a scam, pure and simple. When I explained this to my TG, and told her I didn't think paying it was appropriate, she understood all this (and realized I was angry about the "exit fee" strategy). Then she went and paid it anyway out of her last month's salary (who say TG's aren't strong willed?) without telling me.
Although I think the other pricing structures and penalties set up by this owner (it's a Soi Cowboy bar) make sense, I see his "exit fee" as exploitation. He was preying off the insecurities of the girls and was gambling on the high failure rate of farang/BG relationships. In this case, my TG had only worked at his bar, and was comfortable there. I actually found out later (when it surfaced that she had paid it) that he told her "I can see your future, and I see you coming back to work here." Bullshit. But again, he knows the mentality of the upcountry girls, knew she'd had a failed farang relationship before (only lasted a few months) and was capitalizing on her fears. I know some of the other girls in his bar would have told him to shove it, but my TG is a bit more retiring than that. Oh well.
- Balls
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:41 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
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chateaujade
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All owners are not created equal, some are angels, some are devils, and some, most that is, are somewhere in between.
The flip side is that bars managers have a hell of a time with personnel, and part of the reason for all these various tactics is to try to make sure that on any given night a quorum of dancers has shown up for work.
This gets MUCH worse around New Year, Loy Kratong, and Songkran; but is bad all year round. If a girl gets a big tip from some guy, she often will piss off upcountry to see her family and won't reappear till the baht runs out; if the management yells at her too much she will change bars. Endless variations exist for reasons to not work.
From my personal point of view I think Thai managers are more harsh and abusive, but clearly have a much better grasp of wattanatham Thai - Thai culture. Farang managers tend to be sympathetic (suckers!) at first and then grow cynical. And have less of a clue as to what goes on inside the girls' heads. I REALIZE THIS IS PROBABLY BIASED AND OVERGENERALIZED and I do not advance this as fact
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:48 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
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chateaujade
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hey cmore, just a bit of advice. I for one would be more inclined to read your posts much more carefully, thus hopefully not missing your drift, if you would PLEASE insert some punctuation and paragraph breaks. When confronted with an unbroken stream on consciousness flow that requires a lot of scrolling my eyes glaze over faster than if I was watching BANANAS IN PAJAMAS dubbed into Urdu.
Intended as constructive criticism, this was.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 5:53 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
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kmanrox
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Quote: from chateaujade on 5:53 am on Aug. 26, 2002
hey cmore, just a bit of advice. I for one would be more inclined to read your posts much more carefully, thus hopefully not missing your drift, if you would PLEASE insert some punctuation and paragraph breaks. When confronted with an unbroken stream on consciousness flow that requires a lot of scrolling my eyes glaze over faster than if I was watching BANANAS IN PAJAMAS dubbed into Urdu.
Intended as constructive criticism, this was.
i read about 4 sentences before folding =-/
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:58 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
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