| |
Arcadius
|
Minder
What you seem to be describing is some sort of voluntary severance/guaranteed re-employment deal with the bar.
Now if a guy wants to set up a BG as a mia noi I suppose there are two possibilities - he either expects this to be a semi-permanent arrangement (in which case, why not just insist she leave the bar permanently?), or else he knows from experience that he'll be moving on to pastures new before too long. In the latter case, it seems a pretty reasonable deal to ensure the girl's medium-term security and help persuade her to give up her job. The longer this takes, the longer he's going to have to go on paying the BFs anyway.
I think it's difficult to generalise about what sponsors REALLY expect - especially if they're reasonably clued up. A guy who's abroad much of the time may not worry too much about what his TGF gets up to when he's not around - out of sight, out of mind, as it were, and no real skin off his nose if he's not the jealous type. However, if I were in his shoes, I think I'd be pretty pissed off if she felt free to pull the wool and run around with other guys while I was in town. At the very least, I think I'd feel that I was paying her (presumably rather well) to have first call on her time and to be around when I needed her.
Of course, it all depends. To my mind, there's a big difference between getting starfished by a BG when you've agreed to pay full whack and treated her nicely, and getting starfished when you've forced her down to her bottom line and treated her like sh_t. In the first case, you're just being short-changed. In the second - yeah, you're getting what you paid for, and pretty much all you deserve.
|
Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:17 am on April 24, 2004
|
|
Minder
|
Arcadius
" some sort of voluntary severance/guaranteed re-employment deal with the bar. " Yes, that is exactly what I now know it to be.
And I'd like to stress the point that to the two girls I know (the one who was paid out and the one who wanted me to pay her out) I believe there was a genuine desire to leave the bar but only on these terms.
And look at it from the girl's point of view. If she is bought out for 10k she can go back the minute that Mr farang gives her the brush off. No going bar to bar asking to work with a group of people you don't know or trust - just straight back into the sisterhood that even if you don't like everybody at least you know where you stand.
Thaiprivateeye says (and when he speaks I listen) that she can leave the bar any time she likes and that if she really likes you she'll just walk away. So I guess you could surmise that if the girl wants you to pay the 10k its because she does not think you are really a stayer.
Arcadius - and I hear what you (and even Chompoo) are saying about me and the other man's Mia noi but I posted that info to show how even her family can be willingly involved. Even I was surprised that they were completely comfortable with it.
And I think I've been around this board long enough for the brothers to know that if Minder is first in line to do the dirty on you then you are such a complete prick that Ghandi and Mother Teresa are probably lined up there as well.
These posts are a warning to guys that are considering sponsorship, realise that you will NEVER really know what is going on. If you have a problem with that then don't do it.
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 11:40 am on April 25, 2004
|
|
Arcadius
|
M
Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to assign any blame to you. In my book, it's entirely the girls' responsibility to play fair by their sponsors - nothing to do with the other guys in their lives. Corollary is that if a sponsor wants to get pissed off, he gets pissed off with her and not with anyone else.
The only exception I can see is if you're putting unfair pressure on a girl to give you a priority you don't warrant and creating a difficult conflict of interest for her. We all know they have to juggle these things a bit, and it can't always be easy for them given the fragility of the male ego.
If this one's only too happy to run around with you & others because she wants to get away from her sponsor, then (unless he's underpaying or is a prick) she'd seem to be cheating on her deal. But that's his look-out.
|
Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:02 pm on April 25, 2004
|
|
Chompoo
|
You get what you pay for? No, that is not correct. The truth is in most cases you REALLY get what you REALLY pay for. Maybe your driver is giving crap service cause that's all you are paying for. Deal or no deal.
Arcadius made a very valid point. If you are paying way under fair market value for a good or service you should not be surprised if it's not quite what you expect. I don't feel too sorry for a guy who buys a $10 Rolex on the street. However, even if the guy is an idiot (actually especially if that guy is an idiot, that doesn't make it ethical for a vendor to take advantage of him.
You should "get what you pay for" if you're dealing with an honest businessman. That is a fundamental principle of trade. When you can't trust who you are dealing with then trade suffers and we all lose out (except the most dishonest).
Interesting that you think that about my actions yet you have no problems with his - or is it that as long as his wife and kids don't find out his deal with her remains "ethical"?
So is it your position that you don't need to be ethical when dealing with someone who you believe has their own ethical lapse? In which case I would be fully exonerated from whatever dirty deal I made with you (considering that I believe you to have an ethical lapse in this case).
Sorry, western ethics don't work that way.
In fact, her ethical breach (and by extension yours) is even more compounded by the fact that this guy has a wife and kids. He is, in my opinion, probably factoring in the fact that he is playing relatively safe by sticking to one woman who is not sleeping around. Therefore he is less likely to pass on any diseases to his wife or kids.
I'm sure you and the girl feel that (because he is a slimeball) that the health of his wife and kids are not your concern.
So what you are saying is that since she made a deal she should stick to it no matter how crappy it turns out to really be? Maybe thats how it works on your planet.
Where did you mention that this was a crappy deal for her? This sounds like a fine deal for her.
However, if it was a bad deal then she should not have entered into it. And if it suddenly turns bad then she can opt out. Did the guy coerce her into accepting this deal somehow?
Guess we won't see you at any rallies against indentured slavery. Thanks for the laugh....
This is your idea of indentured slavery? She has brainwashed you pretty good. Which of you is the greater fool?
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 4:07 pm on April 26, 2004
|
|
Chompoo
|
And look at it from the girl's point of view. If she is bought out for 10k she can go back the minute that Mr farang gives her the brush off. No going bar to bar asking to work with a group of people you don't know or trust - just straight back into the sisterhood that even if you don't like everybody at least you know where you stand.
I'm one of the few people who have no problem with this fee. I'm sure some people abuse the system, but it seems like a decent insurance policy and fair compensation to the bar owner.
Thaiprivateeye says (and when he speaks I listen) that she can leave the bar any time she likes and that if she really likes you she'll just walk away. So I guess you could surmise that if the girl wants you to pay the 10k its because she does not think you are really a stayer.
The bottom line is that there is no sure way she can tell if you are a stayer. Many guys might be completely offended if they thought the girl had any doubts about him. Well, I guess these guys are looking for a complete idiot to marry, then.
And I think I've been around this board long enough for the brothers to know that if Minder is first in line to do the dirty on you then you are such a complete prick that Ghandi and Mother Teresa are probably lined up there as well.
I don't know the guy you're talking about, I'm not sure you know him either (other than what you've heard second hand through very biased sources). If you are saying that this guy is total scum (and not just because he has a mia noi), then that is a different matter. Not that it makes her actions or your own ethical, it can't. But it may make them more understandable and easier to look the other way (in what is often an ethically challenged business).
I'm absolutely not asking you to lay our your whole case so we can judge you. It's none of my business. But you can't just drop in, state an incomplete scenario, and try to leave us with the impression that supporting a girl cheating on a business deal is totally acceptable.
Cheating on a deal (even for prostitution) and/or helping someone else to do so is wrong. If you want to say it ain't then you're going to have to explain your situation a lot clearer.
|
Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 4:22 pm on April 26, 2004
|
|
ABC
|
Quote: from Chompoo on 1:07 pm on April 27, 2004
Interesting that you think that about my actions yet you have no problems with his - or is it that as long as his wife and kids don't find out his deal with her remains "ethical"?
So is it your position that you don't need to be ethical when dealing with someone who you believe has their own ethical lapse? In which case I would be fully exonerated from whatever dirty deal I made with you (considering that I believe you to have an ethical lapse in this case).
Sorry, western ethics don't work that way.
In fact, her ethical breach (and by extension yours) is even more compounded by the fact that this guy has a wife and kids. He is, in my opinion, probably factoring in the fact that he is playing relatively safe by sticking to one woman who is not sleeping around. Therefore he is less likely to pass on any diseases to his wife or kids.
I'm sure you and the girl feel that (because he is a slimeball) that the health of his wife and kids are not your concern.
So what you are saying is that since she made a deal she should stick to it no matter how crappy it turns out to really be? Maybe thats how it works on your planet.
Where did you mention that this was a crappy deal for her? This sounds like a fine deal for her.
However, if it was a bad deal then she should not have entered into it. And if it suddenly turns bad then she can opt out. Did the guy coerce her into accepting this deal somehow?
Awesome post. Your posts says it all!!
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:24 pm on April 26, 2004
|
|
haam sup
|
At the end of the day, it's about YOU. YOUR ethics, YOUR ability to sleep at night, YOUR chipping away at YOUR own integrity - YOUR credibility.
Know the arena before you step in, and take your chances. Whether you are right or wrong doesn't carry much weight here...
Trying to hold a BG to some supposed 'contractual agreement' is like trying to sew a button on a poached egg...
[additional non-sequiturs omitted]
haam sup
Oh, and hello! Seems like old times...
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:47 pm on April 26, 2004
|
|
Chompoo
|
At the end of the day, it's about YOU. YOUR ethics, YOUR ability to sleep at night, YOUR chipping away at YOUR own integrity - YOUR credibility.
...
I don't disagree. There is a huge gap between theory and practice. On the board, it's all about theory. In the bar, it's a different story. God bless alcohol and loose women.
|
Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 4:56 pm on April 26, 2004
|
|
ABC
|
haam sup:
Yes, it is your own ethics and integrity, but it's evident that some don't have either. ha ha ha!! Seriously though, if a person knows the score and still feels the need to go the distance, then in my book that is just wrong and if caught should be taught a severe lesson.
Will PM you about this more!!
|
Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 5:02 pm on April 26, 2004
|
|
Arcadius
|
A lot of the problems in this area arise from the fact that Western ethics (to which you probably adhere) and Thai ethics (to which your BG probably adheres) often diverge. An obvious case in point is the very different attitude towards truth-telling.
We see many instances on this board where a guy is in a lather of indignation about something a girl has done; but you know that the girl will almost certainly feel that she hasn't put a foot wrong at all. This can work the other way as well, but then you're on Thai turf.
Whatever you think about Thai ethics in any particular, it's pretty futile judging individual Thais by any other standard. I think it follows that you when you make any kind of contract with a BG, you need to be clear (or at least try to be clear) about what SHE feels her obligations will be to you, because in practice that's the most you're gonna get.
Of course, any BG is just as capable of cheating by her own standards as you are by yours. But I think that's the judgment you have to try to make before deciding she's a rip-off artist. It's not always easy to do this, but I've found that it often pays to suspend judgment and cut the girls a bit of slack.
(By 'Thai ethics', of course, I mean the rules of engagement as they're understood in the bars. In some respects, these obviously diverge from conventional Thai morality.)
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:40 pm on April 26, 2004
|
|
| |
|
