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cmore
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Hey guys, sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you. I am not trying to ignore anyone, it's just that you have to try and understand that because of the time difference between me and Thailand it might be a day or more before I can find the time to respond to post that are submitted after mine. Where I'm at it's 11 hours behind Bangkok so when it's night time here it's daytime there, and when it's daytime here I'm at work for 8 hours. After I get home from work I prefer to veg out in front of the TV screen rather then the computer screen. I'm lucky if I actually spend more than 2 hours a night online, and contrary to popular belief there are other web sites on the internet besides Bangkok Tonight Forum (THAT WASN'T ME BK! The voices are trying to take over again. I knew I shouldn't have put that little blue pill back in the bottle  ). Anyway I'm here guys. It just might take a little extra time for me to finally respond to previous post so bare with me. I've read everything that has been said by the brothers since my last post. As a matter of fact I've actually read each post at least 4 times before I started this one so that I can be reasonable sure that I understood what was being said before I made a reply in order to prevent any misunderstandings on my part. I also want to thank the creators of this fine web site who have designed the submissions page so that I can view the previous post while I'm writing my post in order to double check what was said before I comment on them. I do this because I hold my fellow Jedi's in very high regard as brothers and I have enough respect for all of them so that on those rare occasions where I find myself in disagreement with them and wish to make a comment I want to be absolutely sure that I fully understand what they are trying to say so that there is no misunderstanding on my part that would make me look foolish when my error was later pointed out. So why is it that after reading some of the replys posted after mine it seems to appear as if my post are not entitled to the same respect and courtesy that I try to give to others. Why am I required to explain once again (for the third time now) the idea I was trying to get across. Yes my post are a bit on the long side and yes I tend to skip forming paragraphs (to try and save space), but does my lack of paragraphs mean that my post are not entitled to the same respect that I choose to show other members of this forum? In my last post I specifically asked everyone (not just once but twice, at the beginning of the post and again at the end) to please read and even reread my post carefully so that there would be no misunderstandings of what it was I was trying to say. Now it appears that I'm going to have to try and explain things once again, and trust me, this will be the last time. I have no intention of putting any more energy into a concept that I have repeatedly stated was only meant as a what if idea in the first place. Unfortunately I have to get up for work in a few hours so this third and final explaination of my make believe concept will have to wait for about 22 hours. Hopefully by then some of my fellow Jedi's will have taken the time to reread my last post and finally understand exactly what it is that I'm saying so that this final post on the subject won't even be necesary. Come on guys, as you can see I've inserted plenty of paragraphs into todays post. Doesn't this mean that my post have now earned the right to be heard and respected the same as every other members of this forum? Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion and yes there's no law that says that we all have to share the same opinions or beliefs. In every debate there will always be a positive side and a negative side of the discussion and everyone has the right to choose which side to argue on as well as the right to be heard and completely understood. Shouldn't that word everyone apply to me also? Peace
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:19 am on Aug. 27, 2002
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thaiprivateeye
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- just to get back to the original query, and perhaps for the benefit of "Newbies" to the scene - it appears any "Buying out" is simply a bit of face saving all round, certain Mamasams try to protect their good workers, so tell them they should ask for a lump sum payment, - also the girls know more often than not, they will end up returning to the bar - or at least have some relations who do, so dont like to upset the management. In most cases I have seen mamasams [ not the actual bar owners] in Nana/Cowboy/Patpong usualy get between 10-20,000 bt. - As a follow on bit of advice, - although sad to say, one seldom taken up, experience tells me for you to have much hope at all, by far your best bet, is once you have Brought/woo'ed/forcibly evicted ! - the TG from the bar - send her up-country to stay with her parents whilst the 3 to 6 month Visa delay comes into effect ... and make your check up calls to a phone in the village, not to her mobile !!
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 12:25 am on Aug. 27, 2002
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MrJoe
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cmore,
I for one am totally unaware of not showing you courtesy and respect. If I SEEM to have done so, I sincerely apologize. Everyone IS entitled to respect and you most certainly have earned mine.
I did read your posts and they brought to mind what I saw as an underlying issue, which I addressed. I'm surprised that you object to that (If indeed you do. Perhaps I've misunderstood you again.)
Peace unto you
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:26 am on Aug. 27, 2002
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ABC
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thaiprivateeye:
Great advice. There are too many distractions and pit falls that can make even the strongest working female go back to her old life. I think the money is "easy and fast", as well as having most of your friends in that line of business. Now, do not jump on me for easy. I do not mean her job is easy. Anyways, if one does pay the "contract" and wants to help the female, then the best is to try to remove her from the unhealthy environment. Also, in another forum, BK pointed out that spending as much time with them is also very important.
cmore:
Seriously. I wish you all the best and that it all works out for you.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 1:35 am on Aug. 27, 2002
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cmore
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Hey guys, sorry for the delay in this post that I promised to make tonight, but before I get started I wanted to apologize for the unbrotherly way I spoke to everyone in my last post. Trust me, speaking to people in such a demeaning tone is not the way I believe in getting my point across. I wasn't raised that way. I Hope I didn't offend anyone too badly and I truly hope I will have the chance to repeat my apology again in person next month if I am fortunate enough to meet and break bread with some of the brothers and their ladies while I'm in Bangkok. Okay guys, here it is. My last attempt at trying to explain my concept of meeting a Thai ladies bar fine obligation to the bar that she currently works in so that she can continue to work at the bar, collect her full salary, and not have to leave with customers ever again. Those few lines say it all guys, but just so that there is no further misunderstanding about what I am trying to get across, I will break it down as clearly as I am able to. Perhaps one of the reasons why my concept has been so misunderstood in the past is because I have failed to explain my reasons for coming up with this idea in the first place. I was trying to offer an alternative to an existing concept that a lot of guys choose to practice which I and others like me cannot practice because we either can't afford to or frankly (And I'm only speaking for myself here guys. I don't presume to speak on anyone elses behalf) feel that it might be doing more harm than good. That concept I'm speaking of is sponsorship ( Oh Man! Did I just open a major can of worms with that one. Oh well, I brought it on myself right? Let me have it guys. I can take it). The whole idea behind sponsorship kind of bothers me because it tends to help foster the idea that people from other countries have about Thai's being lazy people. That bothers the hell out of me because I know how hard working Thai's really are and how much crap most of them have to put up with just to get by, never mind get ahead. Unfortunately it becomes hard to debate them when the subject of sponsorship is brought up. My understanding of the concept of sponsorship is as follows, and if I'm mistaken feel free to correct me: A guy falls for a Thai lady that he meets in one of the bars and decides that he doesn't want her working in the bar and going with customers anymore so in return for her having an exclusive relationship with only him he agrees to pay for her house or apartment as well as all her bills and even provide her with a generous spending allowance. Bottom line here is that we have a woman who basically does nothing more then sit at home with nothing to do except wait for her sponsors next visit. Do I have the basic concept right here guys? If I'm right in my understanding of how sponsorship works then it really bothers me to think about a large portion of the Thai work force sitting at home watching TV instead of being contributing members of the Thai community. However before I continue I need to point out that I have no knowledge of how the Thai government works and what the requirements are that are placed on all Thai citizens. When I say contributing members of the Thai community I mean tax payers. What I'm asking is do Thai people have to pay taxes on their salaries? If they do does this include the Thai ladies that work in the bars? I will bow to the experts to answer that question because like I said I have absolutely no knowledge of how that works, but if all working Thai's do have to pay taxes then these ladies are sitting at home watching soap opera's instead of being out there helping to contribute to their communities, helping to pay for road repairs, helping to pay for new schools or for whatever taxes are used for in Thailand. Now there is one reason that I can think of for why sponsoring your lady would be a good thing for the Thai community and that is the reason that brother Balls B has for sponsoring his lady. Because she has made the choice to try and improve things for herself by going back to school. I've said it before and I'll keep right on saying it, this lady is my hero and it's because of her and those rare ladies like her who want to try and make a better life for themselves that I've tried to come up with an alternative to the sponsorship concept which would allow them to continue to work in the bar, to be able to earn a higher salary, and never again have to go with customers for sex or any other reason. I imagine that some of you are still not grasping this concept fully yet (Probably because you still haven't gotten to the point yet you long winded #@!&%) so I will explain it to you in exact detail in a make believe story using myself and my lady as the fictitious characters. Unfortunately it will have to wait one more day because it's that time again and brother Cmore has to get up and start a new day of labor in a few hours. I promise all will be revealed (In great detail ) tomorrow night. After that I promise to stay out of the land of make believe for good (Yeah right! With the amount of medication this guy is on! This guys the mayor of make believe land). Once again I want to apologize for the rude way I choose to express my feelings in my last post. I hope I will be able to someday regain my membership in the Jedi brotherhood. I shall strive to once again prove myself worthy. Peace
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 12:06 am on Aug. 28, 2002
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Oaktoad
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A few comments...
one: there are many guys that bullshit, don't believe everything that you are told... B15K for each of three girls on one night .. could be true, but I doubt it
two: assuming that they did this, then the mamasan is indeed betting that she will come out ahead in this over the long haul... also, Thai's tend to be short term oriented, so B15K in the hand is worth more than B30K paid in over a year ..
three: again assuming that this happened, there is a good chance that the mamasan pocketed B14.5 for each girl and if the girl is in the bar she is "off the books" so no barfines have to be collected.. another chance for the mamasan to rip off the owner ??
four: anyone who buys out a girl by paying a lumpsum barfine is either naive or foolish. all the girl has to do is quit and she can go with you. Assuming that it is not at the end of the month she might be out part of her monthly pay and you could make that up to her.
five: saving face is just an excuse to get more money from the farang .. this is afterall the favorite Thai sport, "dontcha know"
six: the exception to this is if you take a girl for a short term rental.. like a week or so.. then you will be expected to pay the daily barfine, unless the girl is clever and says she has to go home or some other clever lie .. best time to try this is right at the end of a month.. they get paid on the 2nd or so.. then they can say "go home, visit mom/baby, etc" and go with you for a week or so .. then go home and come back to work the next month .. been there done that, so plan your trips accordiningly if this is what you want to do.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:29 am on Aug. 28, 2002
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Casanova
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Oaktoad
I second that.....b15000 is hell alot of money in BKK
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:37 am on Aug. 28, 2002
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Ballsburstin
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cmore,
You makin' us wait one more night? Suspense is killing me! Better hurry, I'm off to LOS in a few days! And thanks for your continuing kind words about my TG -- I mean that sincerely.
But I think I now understand the premises of your hypothesis, and would add these addenda to it: 1) if you don't meter out the cash in a sponsorship, you don't provide the proper role model for your TG -- you will not have shown the value of money and the sacrifice necessary to earn it; 2) if things don't move in a continuously positive direction (knowing that there will be bumps in the road), then you need to end the arrangement, because, sponsorship or not, you have a failed relationship on your hands.
Best of luck with your TG next month, I look forward to tomorrow's post from you!
-Balls
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:44 am on Aug. 28, 2002
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MrJoe
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Yes, 'tis a cruel thing you do sir cmore; the suspense is indeed growing.
I may be totally clueless but I STILL maintain that I didn't misunderstand your proposal but I chose not to even discuss its viability as I saw it as based on a basic flaw - not because I thought it was WRONG but because
A) I don't think it would work
B) I don't think it would be desirable if it DID work.
By all means let's help those who are willing to help themselves. ŬLet's encourage them to be productive and grow as people. ŬI don't think the bar is the place for either.
BTW as far as taxes-they get almost nothing for their taxes anyway (except ever wealthier politicians) so I wouldn't be concerned with that. ŬIf they want to contribute to society there are MUCH more effective ways of doing so.
An interesting resource for people like yourself (those who want to help BGs become more than that) might be an organisation called EMPOWER. ŬAnyone heard of it?
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 3:20 am on Aug. 28, 2002
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MrJoe
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cmore,
Upon consideration maybe I did not think enough about your intended goal. Nonetheless, though the ends you desire are admirable, I have huge doubts about the means you propose. It's like the old joke about the guy asking for directions only to get the answer "You can't get there from here."
As for your concern about a girl maintaining her income, IMO that's where a little sacrifice from both sides is due; You sacrifice some of your hard earned cash and she (perhaps) sacrifices some of her comfort. After all, if she doesn't want to do that, it doesn't make her a bad person at all but maybe she's already found a lifestyle that suits her. There are millions of uneducated Thai women who survive without becoming BGs. I DO NOT THINK THEY ARE BETTER THAN BGs - I simply point out that it is possible. My own wife could be making much more money than I can give her - at 28 she still looks plenty fine. (The truth is out; MrJoe robbed the cradle and he is not one of the rich expats. I'm probably the poorest guy on this forum.) I feel pretty certain after 10 of ups and downs (including absolute poverty during our first years) she is with me for the right reasons and has no doubt about the choice she made. (Yeah I know, you want to speak to her about THAT).
I am not making any judgements on anyone or trying to set a standard by which a girl must be measured.
I think part of the acceptance and understanding of the BGs that most of us show is the realisation that some of the ladies are fairly content with their situation. Some of those very same ladies are very nice people - but are they someone to get commited to? IMO; absolutely not. That way lies heartache and disillusionment.
*The preceding was not meant as an indictment of anyone in particular but rather a general veiw.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:48 am on Aug. 28, 2002
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