| |
Hermanolobo
|
I cannot work out the word bpraytet = country(nation)
It ends with the letter sor saalaa(I think that's how one pronounces it) which to my mind is an 'S' sound.
Why this 'S' and not a T = tet ????
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:32 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
|
|
haam sup
|
Quote: from Hermanolobo on 2:32 am on Feb. 13, 2003
I cannot work out the word bpraytet = country(nation)
It ends with the letter sor saalaa(I think that's how one pronounces it) which to my mind is an 'S' sound.
Why this 'S' and not a T = tet ????
Because for the final consonant of a syllable, the 't' sound is used for any of 16 different consonants, including 'sor-sala', 'sor-ruesee', 'sor-seua', and 13 others.
Another example is 'sawatdee', which is spelled 'sawasdee'. The last consonant in the second syllable is 'sor-seua', but is pronounced 't'
Similarly, the 'k' sound is used for 4 final consonants, the 'p' sound for 5, and the 'n' sound for 6 other consonants.
Ain't Thai grand?
haam sup
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 2:47 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
|
|
BoomARang
|
Another way to think about this that helps me is that many times consonant sounds are changed to make a word eaiser to pronounce or more fluid. "Sawasdee" being a perfect example.
It is more difficult to pronounce the "s" followed by the "d" than it is to pronounce a "t" followed by a "d". And, the "t" need not be pronounced at all by leading into the "d" with a somewhat harder tone.
I don't know if this is a hard and fast rule or not but it seemed to make it easier for me to learn pronunciation.
|
Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 7:05 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
|
|
haam sup
|
Actually, BAR, I have to disagree here. There are specific and explicit rules for what sounds are substituted for final consonants. And the tendency for people to say "sawadee" for "sawatdee" is just a lazy (but common) pronounciation, and street usage.
Take 'mai pen rai' as an example: it often comes out 'maibalai', but if spoken by an educated person, it might be closer to 'mai pen rai'. Kind of like 'gonna' vs 'going to', etc.
If you're serious about ANY language, it behooves you to learn it correctly, and then slide into the vernacular. Also, since hermanolobo's original question had to do with the written language, it is all the more important to learn the rules.
All of the above is, of course, IMHFO, and emphasizes serious study of Thai. If you want to speak primarily to BGs, then the requirements are considerably looser...
haam sup
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 7:39 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
|
|
BoomARang
|
Haam Sup - I know there are explicit rules but if you look at them from the viewpoint of how it changes the pronunciation, you will see that the resulting word does tend to flow more smoothly. I'm not talking about bar girl or street slang but instead the results of following the pronunciation rules. Although it doesn't happen as much in Japanese, there are similar rules as well.
What I was suggesting was not how to make the pronunciation easier but instead to suggest a way to understand the rules easier. There is method to the seemingly madness.
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:21 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
|
|
Sauron
|
Those 44 consonants boil down to a much smaller set of sounds ("phones") in the initial position and even fewer in the final position (of a syllable).
That is because multiple letters have same sound, for reasons of class and tone rules; also a few are archaic, and a few more are rare (used only in a very few words.)
Once this sinks in it all makes sense. Do not be too rigid about transliteration. There are many systems of transliteration, all arbitrary and mutually inconsistent. The word for country/nation for example is pronounced PRATHET but as you discovered, you can't get there from some transliteration systems.
B's and P's are always a hassle because the Thai sound is actually about halfway between the two. But is you write out bp in English, you either get a well known oil company or else gibberish.
Ladprao = Ladprow = Latpraow
The important thing to remember is that you should be reading the Thai and not transliterating, anyway. Learn to think in Thai.
|
Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:36 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
|
|
haam sup
|
BAR,
You make a good point. And, in fact, I guess it has become second nature to me, so I never stopped to try to explain it. It does help understand the rules.
I do think, however, that hermanolobo will have to resort to memorizing the non-obvious substitutions if reading/writing is his goal, unless he is fluent enough to get the word from the context.
It does explain why 'hotel' comes out 'hoten', though, doesn't it? 
I wish we could display Thai characters here [sigh]...
thanks,
haam sup
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:42 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
|
|
Sauron
|
My INITIAL goal was just to learn the Thai written language, and that was easier because I ignored the tone marks at first and consequently the classes of consonants and the tone rules.
Eventually you will want to read something aloud and use a dictionary and THAT is when those things become critical.
The tone marks are also used for denoting police and military ranks by the way. Pan tree, Pan tho, Pan ek = Major, Lt.Col., Colonel = literally "Commander of 1000 3rd class, Commander of 1000 2nd class, Commander of 1000 2st class" Effectively you could translate "Commander of 1000" as "tribune" as this is more or less the Roman rank system. Or more accurately, "field grade officer".
Whereas Roi is a junior officer (centurion, commander of 100) and Phun is general officer.
One consequence of this 3 x 3 rank matrix is that there is no rank of brigadier, that is a "special colonel" and insignia is same. Likewise the Field Marshal rank is now obsolete -- Prem Tinsulanond who commanded Thai forces in Vietnam (now Senior Privy Counsellor to HM) was the last Field Marshal -- but Phun Ek in the top positions are entitled to wear five stars instead of four which signifies that in the old days they would indeed have been Field Marshals.
|
Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:53 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
|
|
haam sup
|
"The tone marks are also used for denoting police and military ranks by the way."
Great stuff, the kind of stuff that makes it 3D for me.
thanks,
hs
|
Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 8:58 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
|
|
Sauron
|
See, now you know what all that "Phan Thamruat Tho" in front of Thaksin's name is all about. He's reminding everyone that he was a police procurement officer with rank of Lt.Col. in the Communications Division before he became a billionaire.
(Cough) is that a cause & effect?
Seriously, the Army guys get to use the rank without a qualifier (like, Roi Ek. The Navy: Roi Reua Ek. The Air Force: Roi Akaat Ek. The Police: Roi Thamruat Ek and so on. All same rank (captain, or equivalent)
Enlisted grades for noncoms works same way. Sip tree, Sip tho, Sip ek, Ja tree Ja tho, Ja ek. Sip tree = commander of 10 3rd class. and so on. The Ja's are the senior sergeants, Ja ek being Sgt Maj and Ja tho being Master Sergeant. However, Thai senior noncoms have little or nothing of the clout and respect that American Sergeants-Major get, the Thai military is rank heavy and any Thai noncom is a "steppin fetchit" here.
The decimal progression Sip Roi Phan (10, 100, 1000) obviously does not apply to the Ja or the all powerful Phun, as neither word represents a number. Each still have three classes demarked by tone markers. Note though that the tone markers do NOT modift the tone of Sip, Ja, Roi, Phan or Phun -- they are read out in their meanings of rank.
|
Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:08 am on Feb. 13, 2003
|
|
| |
|
