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DaffyDuck
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Quote: from Buttman 007 on 9:55 am on June 10, 2006
I respect your opinion, and I think there's some good truth to what you have to say. Your calm, level-headed rebuttal was actually quite refreshing, even if I disagree wtih you.
Well, we can always 'agree to disagree' - though if you earnestly feel you did not imply or intend any of what I pointed out, consider this an object lesson in the power of words, and how to properly choose your words. Words are powerful, and quickly the wrong insinuation can be extrapolated from something you say, sometimes with quite deliterious results.
Seajohn - I do believe that we have witnessed your No.1 choice "Is it merely a confession of an accidental encounter? If so, these experiences would not be the rarest thing on earth, as I described above." and I think you for acknowledging that such pup-tent raising moments are not only entirely possible, but oftentimes outside of our range of control - which was my point that it was entirely commendable that Penbelly, despite his physical response, chose to smartly remove himself.
EPC - "You might want to rethink your 90% "intent" statement and see if it makes any sense the second time around." yep, still makes sense. If you have INTENT of doing something, and you deliberately place yourself in a situation supporting your intent, it takes woefully little 'push' to turn 'intent' inot 'execution'. It takes a hell of a lot more for someone with no intent, finding himself in a tempting situation, to fall victim to it (most normal people do know right from wrong, and do not hopelessly fall prey to their emotions - well, unless we're talking Christians, and none of them can be trusted)
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 1:12 am on June 10, 2006
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seajohn
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Thanks reading my long post, Daffy, and acknowledging one of my possible explanations. Though I am not yet fully convinced of which option, the two I mentioned or Buttman's third, is the most accurate.
Sadly, Penbelly himself was not able to read my benevolent hypotheses with any comprehension, and to date he is unable or unwilling to bring himself to answer the issue we have been discussing, though we have asked him for elucidation time and time again. He knows he is being discussed but apparently either cannot follow the chain of big words, or he just prefers to stand in the corner devising attacks on those who would help him.
However when you state the fact that, "most normal people do know right from wrong, and do not hopelessly fall prey to their emotions", I do think it also worthwhile to mention that there are indeed levels of moral development.
For example, a child sees a desireable apple which does not belong to him but he suddenly wants to steal it.
a) the child does not steal the apple because he fears someone will catch him and punish him.
b) the child does not steal the apple because he believes it is objectively wrong to steal.
c) the child does not steal the apple because he does not want to harm the owner of the apple.
And so on into the higher orders of moral development. Obviously item A is the lowest. Suppose that item A is the explanation. The child still has not stolen anything, no law broken, therefore we cannot regard him as guilty but innocent. But would we consider him mature? Trustworthy?
Now I obviously do not make any accusation here, and I wouldn't because I opened this post by saying that I had not ultimately decided on Penbelly's motivation--though there are some very persuasive arguments. But given only the expressions used in the original post by the author when describing his thoughts in that situation, we the readers must evaluate his character to some degree. Each with his own thoughts and this open Forum of exchanged thoughts. And that's all we can do. At least until he comes forth with an explanation. We may be waiting a long time for that, so... Case dismissed!
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 3:39 am on June 10, 2006
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DaffyDuck
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Hello Seajohn.
Quote: from seajohn on 4:40 pm on June 10, 2006
For example, a child sees a desireable apple which does not belong to him but he suddenly wants to steal it.
Vague analogy, as a child could be anything from 1 year old to PB's age, depending on definition, and stricktly different social conditions (or social triggers) apply based on the level of development.
In fact, concepts of 'right' or 'wrong' never enter the equation until a child is at least 3-5 years old. Even beyond that, sometimes until the ages of 6-8, do concepts like externalized consequences (my action will harm others), or truly understanding 'right' from 'wrong' not even come into play. In fact, until roughly 1-3, the child can't even truly grasp the concept of self.
Most 'well-behaved' children usually respect set rules for two reasons:
- they are simply following orders (rules) given to them by their parent or authority figure ("Mom said not to take any apples, but always ask her for it, so I won't and I will...")
- they are avoiding punishment, as earlier transgressions yielded direct punishment (this is also the 'motivator' most likely to break and to be violated when a chance of avoiding punishment presents itself, or the authority person departs.
It's usually quite easy which methods parents use (i.e. the 'dump parent' vs. 'smart parent' differentiator).
Sorry to digress on a tangent here, but 9 years of psychology with an emphasis on developmental psychology are hard to shake (though my classes on comparative psychology would probably find a valuable use in this thread as well)
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:08 am on June 10, 2006
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expatchuck
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Well, my 22 days of psychology courses have reminded me of a child's outlook on things.
An elementary school has just enough apples for lunch for their students. They place the apples at the front of the serving line and put the following sign over the apples:
"Only one apple per student. Remember, God is watching."
At the end of the serving line are the chocolate chip cookies with this sign over them, put up by an enterprising student:
"Take all the cookies you want. God is watching the apples."
I wonder where the 90% rule came in to play on this one?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 10:13 am on June 10, 2006
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seajohn
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Thanks for the detail, Daffy Duck.
My hierarchy of moral development may be, then, a generalization; and I suppose that it may have made more sense to speak of an adult than a child (who's emerging concept of self is more significant than an external system up until a certain age, etc, including all you pointed out). Unless we agree that the subject of the study, as you remark, is actually a child or has not developed further. But this is still a generalization on my part, as the mind does not draw lines and labels such as "child" and "adult" duing it's development. And yes, there are many social factors. We also haven't any info on the subject's family dynamic, etc--One imagines an extended family or tribe in which the children are collectively raised by the female harem of the alpha (hence his continuous wishful identification with that role). But of course I was looking for an analogy after all...
I don't think your information has contradicted me though when I contrast the stages of doing things merely out of a fear of punishment (or as following orders) with doing things with others in mind--as progressions of maturity.
I think you have verified that someone with psychological training like yourself may be quite aware of how a subject represents himself, though he himself is not.
Actually it was the course in abnormal psych that interested me most--and which may have some relevance here too. Great conference.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 10:44 am on June 10, 2006
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SHEIKH14
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these posts are really informative lectures
regards
s a sheikh
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 12:22 pm on July 27, 2006
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PopSecret
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...consider this an object lesson in the power of words, and how to properly choose your words.
Object or abject?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:06 pm on July 30, 2006
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DaffyDuck
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object lesson
n.
1. A concrete illustration of a moral or principle.
2. A lesson taught by using a material object.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:34 pm on July 30, 2006
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MartinBryantJr
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Mind boggling.
Child behaviour experts with no children, the world really craves experts with such overwhelming practical experience.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 11:49 pm on July 30, 2006
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