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Smegma
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Arcadius, what did f_ck you do? WOW!!
Not since the day we managed to make a whole page in a thread dissapear had we seen such wild acts.
Congratulations 
P.S. When cutting and pasting after having used a spell checker from another software, always do a preview of the post before submitting. You will catch any strange characters that confuse the software. 
BTW, you can recover the lost text by going "quote" on each then copy and move to a new post the text and reedit the weird characters. Or go post reply and ytou will see the text showing up on the left (have to scroll down).
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 2:30 am on July 10, 2003
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Arcadius
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Nope, I did all the preview routine Smeg.
Deleted member had already made an appearance before I excited him into a frenzy.
Mai pen rai, seatbelts on, I'll give it another go.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:51 am on July 10, 2003
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Arcadius
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X
OK, so here's stab number two (long post - sorry everyone).
So far as LBs are concerned, we are talking about a specific type here; one who passes for a woman almost completely. Most LBs do not do this, and these are more nearly comparable to effeminate gays, transsexuals etc in the West. The second type of LB may well appeal to bisexual men, but will not appeal to heterosexual men (apologies to continuum fans, but I am trying to keep the argument as simple as I can).
I don't think stature is the key. Seems to me that the physical appearance of adult Orientals diverges significantly less between the sexes than with Caucasians and most other races, and this makes it much easier for some of them to cross the gender divide convincingly. The comparison would be with prepubertal Caucasian children - boys share the soft features, smooth skin and undeveloped musculature of their sisters, who in turn share the angular figures of their brothers. Given a change of dress, hairstyle, mannerisms and behaviour, it is relatively easy for boys to pass convincingly as girls and vice versa. However, this is extremely difficult for Caucasian adults.
Re Toms: I didn't spot the office Tom until I noticed her high-pitched voice and a colleague tipped me off. This girl looks almost indistinguishable from a young Thai guy. Moreover, her dress, mannerisms and body language are exaggeratedly male (by Thai standards) just as a katoey's are often exaggeratedly female. She is scruffy, untidy, loose-limbed and long-striding, and presents more like a young farang guy than a Thai one. She doesn't hang with the other girls, unlike the office LB who is just accepted as one of them. Believe me, she pulls the whole thing off extremely well (and I might add that her Dee is distressingly gorgeous).
Now let's take Kaymanx's scenario, but add Macho Man who was in the same bar an hour earlier. MM also gets the hots for K's 'girl', and like him is under the mistaken impression that she's a woman. Both are sexually attracted to this creature, who happens - in point of technical fact - to be a man. Would you say that this impulse is homosexual or heterosexual in nature? I am quite clear in my own mind that it is 100% heterosexual.
Thus far they are equal. But when MM, like K, later discovers that he's got a katoey on his hands, he reacts very differently. He is appalled, pushes her away and reels out into the night to whip himself up into a neurotic frenzy about whether or not he's gay. K, being a well-balanced kind of guy, just shrugs and sticks to plan A. Whatever the hell this is, he's attracted to it, and that's good enough for him.
So - does this mean that K is bi while MM is straight? I would say no. At the instinctive level, where it matters, where the issue of sexual orientation comes into play, BOTH are attracted to the katoey and that attraction is heterosexual. The divergence doesn't materialise until they become consciously aware that this isn't a woman after all. What happens then? MM either makes a rational decision that he is not prepared to f_ck a non-woman, or (far more likely) is just swamped by feelings of shame, guilt, anger etc thanks to the accumulated garbage he carts around in his superego. None of this alters the fact that he WAS sexually attracted to this LB. How significant is the fact that he did nothing about it? In my opinion, not very significant at all. At the risk of further exciting Tsonoqua's Christian dogmatists, I would say that a fancier of effeminate katoeys is no less so for being non-practicing.
K, on the other hand, is not freaked out. He is quite confident about his sexual orientation (which is probably no big deal to him anyway) and KNOWS that he is responding to this katoey as to a woman because he also KNOWS that the male holds no attraction for him. His sexual attraction to this LB is a given which he is happy to accept and sees no good reason to override - and although he is now aware that she is not a genuine woman, he simply proceeds as if she were. Why is this hard to understand? When I'm getting the GFE from a BG, I just proceed as if she were in fact a new girlfriend and am practically oblivious to the fact that she's a prostitute. Why is this possible? Because she's so utterly convincing in the role, that's why. I'm not quite sure what this is, but simple play-acting it ain't.
At any event, K regards the ensuing encounter as essentially heterosexual - at least from his own standpoint, if not from the katoey's. I agree with him. I presume Smeg's TG takes exactly the same attitude with regard to her Tom, in which case I agree with her too. It is NOT necessary to assume she is just rationalising away something which is socially unacceptable - ie, fooling herself and misleading others. I suspect she's just as secure in her conviction as Kaymanx is in his, and as I would be in a similar situation. However, I would be surprised if she arrives at this conclusion by quite the same route - which is why we need to hear more from MrJoe & Packripper, and get hold of Ballsburstin's book.
PS: I sympathise entirely with those who ask what the hell does it matter anyway. But I am trying to address the question Smegma originally posed, which I think is a particularly interesting one.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 3:20 am on July 10, 2003
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Smegma
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But one difference that I have noticed ... while LBs go to ladies toilets at public places, toms also keep going to the ladies toilets. I also see many gay men going openly into the toilets with their female friends, but I do not see the toms not minding or doing the same with their men friends.
Does this mean that in general straight Thai women are more tolerant than straight Thai men?
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:28 am on July 10, 2003
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Arcadius
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Interesting point - yes both the office LB and office Tom use the ladies' loo. In all other respects, the Tom keeps her distance from the other girls.
Whether this owes more to her attitude or theirs I don't know.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:34 am on July 10, 2003
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X
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Arcadius,
Slowly but surely I am beginning to get a slight grip of some of what you are saying. As for my earlier comments on ìwestern females make more convincing butches, and Thai males more convincing LBísî, well someone (out with the forum) went to the trouble of explaining the ìless difference between Thai men and women than between western man and western womenî bitÖ and it DOES make total sense. I just hadnít thought it through well enough.
I didnít think I was that black & white in this matterÖ but I see now I am way too ìif it isnít black it must be whiteî and I guess I have just learned there are lot more grey areas than I had originally thought.
I still have more difficulty accepting Smegís girls feelings towards the Tom are purely heterosexual, than I do accepting Kaymanís feelings towards the LB were heterosexual. And I guess this has to do with my own personal experience. I just have never seen a butch lesbian who really would fool me (or even remotely fool me) into thinking she was a guy, but I have seen Katoeys (and Kelly type women here) who I would have sworn were born female. Maybe if I ever see a convincing tom/butch then my opinion will change. Either way, I need to be less black/white. With someone elses help I have already thought of some ìscenariosî that just donít fit very nicely into the ìstraightî ìgayî or ìbisexualî categories.
Thanks for taking the trouble to articulate all this, and thanks for the laugh you gave me with 3 pages full of ìdeleted memberî. lol And I agree, the original topic IS a very interesting one... even though half of it seems to go over my head. haha
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 5:28 am on July 10, 2003
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Arcadius
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X
Since you've been to LOS, I suspect you have indeed seen several Toms but just weren't aware that that's what they were. You weren't looking for them, and you'll just have taken it for granted that they were handsome young Thai guys. Yes, some of them ARE that convincing, just as some LBs are.
What you probably need on your next trip here is to have a Tom pointed out to you. For obvious reasons, we men involved in Thai P4P are far more attuned to the katoey phenomenon than most Western women are attuned to Toms. Even then, God knows, most of us often have a hard enough time sexing LBs correctly.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 6:09 am on July 10, 2003
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dirty guru
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again.....grace to my point....that men take thai wifes.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 6:14 am on July 10, 2003
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badfishlbc
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I think I can shed a little light on this. A little while ago, I was dating this gorgeous Thai gal in Hollywood, CA. She told me of her past relationships with tomboys back when she lived in Thailand. I didn't quite understand. As time wore on, I learned more about what they did together and how it was perceived.
First, her dad made her go to a psychologist because he didn't like it. She explained to me that it was "in style" to be going out with tomboys at the time.
Second, when they would get intimate, she wasn't allowed to touch the tomboy and the tomboys kept all of their clothes on. She never saw them nude. They would kiss and but all she could do was let the tomboy eat her out.
She had 2 tomboys just like this. She also said they were good looking and that they she broke up with them because they had too many girlfriends. She did have encounters with other women before but never considered herself gay or even bi. She offered to have a threesome with another gal but it couldn't be a pretty one that I would fall for.
One of the strangest relationships I've had but she was the best I've ever had in bed...
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 10:18 pm on July 10, 2003
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