Bangkok Tonight Forum Archives - Falling in love (with a Thai bar girl)

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-- Posted by vinny on 8:11 am on Aug. 6, 2002

My next trip to LOS will be my second and in between my trips I recommended the country (on the whole) to a good male friiend of mine.

Anyway he went last year, travelled around, and on occasions paid for a few bar girls. Then met this 'special' bar-girl!

To cut a long story short he came back to the UK, lasted 3 months then went back out having sold his flat etc etc.

He now intends to have a house built (for a modest sum) I must admit, but of course it seems it has to be in her name. Now, generally, he is no fool, but love is blind as most of us know. But, can anyone tell me of the possible chances of this being a 'love' decision from the girls point of view.

I don't want him to get scammed or a broken heart; but would hate it 10 times more if he got both!

I will be seeing him in the UK when he needs to return to UK for a week or two in September. Then we plan to go back out there together mid September; when I guess I will then meet this 'special' girl.

Please advise!

vinny

-- Posted by sniffdog on 3:23 pm on Aug. 6, 2002

I've seen this go wrong a lot of times.

If you're friend really wants to build a house, there
are certain constructions which let you own the house(or actually the land underneath it) by your own company.

Let him talk to a lawyer.

-- Posted by rami on 5:12 pm on Aug. 6, 2002

Ohhh,plz falling in love with TG,and even worse with BG.Tell him just escape from there,it's a trap,everyone that stay in Thailand long enough,and meet lot of TG knows this.She'll stay with him till she reach her personal goals-money,house,passport,whatever.After she will go drink and f_ck arround,and when he'll call her:"Hi,where are you?"-She'll tell:"I'm staying with my friends,don't you worry I'm not drunk honey...go sleep".
Period.

-- Posted by Root Rat on 5:25 pm on Aug. 6, 2002

Vinny, ask your friend if he is willing to put his life savings on the 500 to 1 shot at the Grand National. The odds that he&'s not going to get burnt here are about the same.

-- Posted by Jumping Jack on 7:02 pm on Aug. 6, 2002

If you scroll to the top of this page there is a icon on the right hand side for emailing posts to a friends

If he is your mate spend a hour or two going through this forum and email him the reports that you find about this.

Also get him to read the stickman web site. Not the trash that stickman writes but the readers submission section. There is about 100 stories there and about 75% deal with this matter

I do not know your friend or his girl but I will say this with full confidence

HE IS f_ckED sooner or later but for sure f_ckED

-- Posted by chrisboy on 7:19 pm on Aug. 6, 2002

vinny,

if i were u, i gonna talk sense into my buddy!!! but we all knows he's never gonna listen, at this stage, he's not only blinded by love but deaf too!!!!

since his coming back to Uk on Sep, why don u ask your friend to hire someone to check on her and her background? sorry to be rude, but we just wanna know what the F#@k shes up to when your friend is not around!!!

this idea may sound stupid and expensive, but its better than losing all hislifes' saving in the end, not to mention a broken heart!!

sorry i do not know of any private investigators company. maybe some other bros can help u, or may i suggest u check it out with Thaipraviteeye, i've not meet him though, but i've found that he has been very helpful with his infos and advises to all in this site. TPE, what do u think??

well, seeing is beliving....and u cant hide the truth forever!! what we want in the case of your friend, is to find out the truth soonest!! if the TG is truely and sincelely in love with your friend and not after his $$$$$, then i'll give them my heartiest blessing!

regards,
chrisboy

-- Posted by Groundpounder on 7:53 pm on Aug. 6, 2002

Another useful resource that clearly states the different cultural expectations of a farang and BG is the Freelance Bar's web site: (http://www.freelancerbar.com:/Girls/girls.html)

For a worst-case scenario, Stephen Leather's free novel "Private Dancer" (in Adobe Acrobat format) is hard to beat: (http://www.stephenleather.com/unpub.html)

But having said all that, I've had an on and off relationship with a TG (not a BG) for eighteen years (!) She's one of the most honest, straightforward and loving people I know, regardless of race or culture.

-- Posted by vinny on 11:08 pm on Aug. 6, 2002

I am so grateful, for all the help given here so far. I must admit, it is generally what I expected to hear, but the clarity and experience of you guys behind your words is easy to feel. I cannot email this topic to my pal at the moment because the girl is always by 'his-side' he tells me.

Of course, on his return to UK I will at the right moment (I wish!), get him to read this topic and just hope he has enough sense left to accept the information is to enable him to rationalise the whole situation.

Interesting comment about buying land through a company, can anyone tell me where I can get more info on this.

Also the idea of hiring someone to watch her movements sounded callous at first to me, but nevertheless, it is obviously a sound way of being sure (at least for the time-being).

Anyway, once again, thanks to you all and for the links to other sites of reference - I will check them all.

Anyone elses experiences also most welcome.

This is a really excellent site, and I sure hope to meet some of you guys on my next trip.

-- Posted by chasingwhtrabitz on 12:07 am on Aug. 7, 2002

I have to agree with all the posts that I have read . If he is serious aout moving to Thailand there are many options for buying a home that does not include it being put in the girlfriends name . First he can finance the home . If things dont work out hes only got what he has sank into it in payments which is way less than rent would be anyways . Take the rest of his money and put it in an interest bearing acct. in the UK . Do not let him jump in head first and outright buy a house and land . I have a TG and not a BG and Ive spoken with her dad a few times on the subject of buying a home and land and he says there are many ways around the law so I can have it put in my name . He is a westeren educated investigator for the Thai police so I assume he knows what he is talking about . Even being her dad he never once mentioned putting a place in her name . There are lots of options that do not include the bar girl hitting her form of the lottery by a farrang buying a house for her .
Secondly when he comes back to the Uk definately have someone take a look in at her activities while he is gone . Does your friend speak Thai ? If not just have him take another farrang out with them one night who does and not let her know and tell her to invite some friends along . You will really get to know exactly what she is telling her friends about you . I can also reccomend Thaiprivateeye . My girl thinks hes an evil bastard because he tells the truth to the farrang boyfriends about what there BG girlfriends are doing when they are away . He seems to be the grinch that stole the BGs ATM "farrang" . If nothing works , what doesnt kill us only makes us poorer..............

-- Posted by Dave on 12:45 am on Aug. 7, 2002

Vinny

There are so many stories about TG's/BG's getting their hooks into farangs and then things going wrong then it should be very worrying.

The previous advise is all good stuff, but the bottom line is he should give himself a lot more time before getting into any deal that will cost him his shirt. What happens to his emotions is another story.

That said, a friend of mine was seeing a girl for 3 years during his many trips to LOS. He said she was a hairdresser, but he met her in Pattaya although she was from Chiang Mai. That may make her a BG. Eventually he married her in LOS and she is now in UK and has been here for 2 years. They seem quite happy. So it is not all bad news.

I doubt your friend would accept any warnings at the moment anyway 'cos he will still be thinking with his balls and not his brain. But if you can pursuade him to take some time then you would be giving him your best shot.

Dave

-- Posted by vinny on 8:31 am on Aug. 7, 2002

Once again, thanks to all who have replied to this topic. One thing though...... Is there no female members of this site who could add there comments from a female perspective? In fact are there any female members at all, be them Thai or otherwise?

-- Posted by MrJoe on 3:27 pm on Aug. 9, 2002

Don't have time or space to add all the horror stories I've witnessed over 20 years (including several years of managing go gos). All the posts are words to the wise. For fairness sake I do know of 1 (COUNT EM - 1) happy 12 year couple. The wife is very sweet, quiet, and faithful. But I knew her from her first week in the biz and she she was never cut out to be a BG in the first place. I think the lesson there is; the girl you have a great time with on your holiday is often NOT the girl you want to settle down with. (Another time perhaps we can get into that and the whole virgin/whore complex that men often have. It's hypocrisy but...)

-- Posted by tittiporn on 12:20 am on Aug. 10, 2002

Vinny

Try to convince him to rent a house in the beginning.

That way you can at least by him some time.

-- Posted by Kojak on 3:37 am on Aug. 13, 2002

No one can be sure what his TG doing when he's far at home. But there are many "good girl" type that wont go to the farangs places. Better find one of those to be your wife and not one of the sluts at Nana ( who goods just for one night and that's all,no more)

-- Posted by nokna on 4:32 am on Aug. 13, 2002

i fell in love with more than one girl and it's a bad thing if you cannot be with them.

sometimes i regret ever going to LOS.

why do people refer to these girls as whores/sluts etc?.
personally i see no need for it.
a lot of them(people may think i'm wrong)are doing it because of many different circumstances.

and for a lot of them,it cannot be easy.
cut them a bit of slack and respect them.

-- Posted by cmore on 5:07 am on Aug. 13, 2002

You tell um Nokna. I'm all for the brothers having fun while they're in LOS as long as no one is getting hurt or abused, but lets all try to remember that most of us are guest in their homeland and even though these ladies do get paid for play try to remember who it is that's doing the paying. One more thing to think about before you place a label on someone. All of these ladies are someones mother, sister, or daughter as well as being an actual human type person. Think about how you'd feel if someone called your mother or sister a slut. I'd probably be on my way to Bangkok right now to bail you out of jail for putting some guy in the hospital. Have pity on me bros. My traveling funds are seriously low at the moment. Peace out.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 12:59 pm on Aug. 13, 2002

Nokna, I hope you didn't mean me when you so rightly objected to putting negative labels on the TGs. I have actually "defended a TGs honor" on more than one occasion against rude disrespectful falangs. Some of my dearest long- time friends are BGs. My virgin/whore comment was a reference to the well known paradoxical tendency of men from all cultures to desire both a pure "good girl" to place on a pedestal and a wild, "nympho" girl to satisfy thier sexual needs. The "whore" is the archtypical girl you want have sex with but don't want to introduce to Mom.

This is recognized in pschological studies of male behavior.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 1:02 pm on Aug. 13, 2002

Sorry to sound like pompous pseudo-intellectual jerk in last post. It's a horrible habit of mine. Just want to make clear I am NOT calling anyone a whore. The only reason I started following this forum was because of the predominantly positive and respectful attitudes I've come across - inlcuding yours Nokna.

-- Posted by nokna on 3:17 pm on Aug. 13, 2002

mrjoe
not having a go at you personally.
just that when i see the bad words in a post it annoys me big time.

i just hate to see these words directed at the girls.
anyone who mentions them gets a big groan from me.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 4:46 pm on Aug. 13, 2002

Nokna,
Again my reference was not directed towards the girls. There is a syndrome that psychologists sometimes refer to as the Virgin/Whore complex. That is the only reason I used that word. Not only is it not directed at Thai prostitutes it is not even about prostitutes at all - it's more about the supposed subconcious tendency of men to view all women as one or the other.

Anyway, I'm with you and I appreciate and share your principles on this matter.

-- Posted by whitespider on 2:52 am on Aug. 14, 2002

Nokna

I assumed your comments were aimed at Kojak anyway and not Mr Joe . I too get pissed off with mindless idiots - maybe we should have a minimum IQ quota for membership of this board??

-- Posted by Dave on 3:05 am on Aug. 14, 2002

Guys

Some time ago, many of us decided that words like hookers, whores, sluts, slags etc. were largely inappropriate to the majority of working girls in LOS.

Yes they are prostitutes but to use words that compare them to western working woman is well out of order. One heck of a number of them are young kids trying to get by and support others. OK there all types but the wider picture demands some respect.

Is it possible to fail an IQ test??

Dave

-- Posted by nokna on 4:22 am on Aug. 14, 2002

whitespider.
i had better say goodbye now.
an i.q. test for board members,that puts me out of the frame.
my intelligence goes out the window when i see the girl laying naked on the bed with arms(and if i'm lucky,legs) open wide.

i do not like to see references to whores/sluts/tarts etc.
if people just want to treat them as cattle,their choice,but keep it civil.

i have been on other sites and have been really hurt by the things said about the girls and the things they have been called.
no need for it.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 11:07 am on Aug. 14, 2002

Damn, one more time! I really didn't mean anything regarding the TGs. I didn't use the W word in reference to any real women but rather a fantasy construct in some men's minds. I have NEVER used the word to describe anyone. I'm one of the good guys, honest!

-- Posted by nokna on 5:58 pm on Aug. 14, 2002

not talking about you personally,just a general rant on my part.
take no offence,my friend.

(Edited by nokna at 5:58 pm on Aug. 14, 2002)

-- Posted by whitespider on 6:09 pm on Aug. 14, 2002

Nokna

You know fully well I was referring to Kojak and not to you :) he has used the same terminology (sluts) on another thread in the last couple of days. I am beginning to wonder if he MEANS to be offensive or if it may just be his command of English (whcih is better than my Thai) and hopefully we may have put him on the straight and narrow :biggrin:

-- Posted by nokna on 8:38 pm on Aug. 14, 2002

WS
i know you were not referring to me.
i only replied to your mention of i.q. test.
i lose it all when the girl is in the room.

-- Posted by ABC on 11:58 pm on Aug. 14, 2002

Sup':
Like Nokna said, it's all about respect. And when individuals use the words, whore, sluts, ect. they just shows the level of respect that person has for them. Which translates into none. But, it also looks like people that use those words to describe the working female are only looking for sex and nothing else. So, I guess those words do fit their defintion of picking a female only for sex.

Along these lines I also find it interesting that many threads focus on only sex and how cheap an individual can get it for. I think Thailand and the females have alot more to offer then just sex. I do realize that this forum is dedicated to the spreading of knowledge about the adult activities of BKK, so no preaching here!!! Just want to point out an observation I have found.

Nokna:
I will have to add to your post about the IQ going out the window when you see the girl laying naked on the bed with arms(and if i'm lucky,legs) open wide. I start loosing it when the alcohol starts to run into the blood. ha ha ha ha!!

-- Posted by zzzZ on 5:25 am on Aug. 15, 2002

Well it seems this post is pretty relevant for me. I'm a frequent traveler to BKK (once a month these days). Been there 35 times over the last 10 years, so know the scene well.

Much to my surprise, 2 months ago a met a really nice (aren't they all) TG (freelance). She wasn't long in the biz and only infrequently freelanced. The problem is that things clicked really well..too well. When together we are inseperable. She says she gave up the freelance. It seems believeable, and I'm not new to the game so had my guard up pretty high.

Now it's all love, love, love. She's never asked me for money except the first night I met her and I don't think that's where it's going. Unless she has a real long term plan!

Anyway, am I still a fool? What do you guys think? Once they've "crossed to the other side" as a freelancer to I need to worry about it for the rest of my life?

Let me know, would love to hear your opinions..

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 6:44 am on Aug. 15, 2002

zzzZ

Maybe the best approach is to take a Thai approach -- "what you don't know won't hurt you". Kinda like never mentioning a mia noi in front of your wife, so she won't lose face. (Unless she is engaging in unsafe sex.) In their own way, these ladies are fiercely loyal -- I think that comes through in nokna's posts -- and if you found a good one, she will go out of her way not to screw things up with an "in your face" attitude.

I'm going with a former a-go-go dancer, and I had my guard way up too. But so far, so good. I think her exit strategy was always to meet a farang and move on, which she seems to be doing. But the transition stage (she's 24 going on 25) is bumpy, and you have to cut 'em some slack for, as ThaiPrivateEye calls 'em, "their minor transgressions." She going to do what she's going to do, and the relationship is what it is.

I've been preaching a lot about trust with her, 'cause her former Thai husband extended little for her that way. And I have been patient in letting her find her bearings in the post night club scene. It's a big change of pace for her, everything slows down, the comraderie of the club and her 'sisters' isn't there anymore, maybe less exciting, but she is beginning to see a future beyond it. I think we care enough about each other to weather the transition, but only time will time. She is starting to get recentered on her family and related type things, and that is tending to ground her in reality -- since they never really approved of her "occupation," her exit from the field is encouraged by them.

Just a few thoughts, hope it helps. I don't get particularly jealous about the "is she having sex with someone" issue; I'm more concerned to see her make responsible choices that will affect us long term (rather than shortterm). I try to enjoy the good stuff, and ignore the rest of the little things; one day she will be old, and I think she knows this.

- Balls

-- Posted by MrJoe on 12:51 pm on Aug. 15, 2002

ABC,
"...it's all about respect. And when individuals use the words, whore, sluts, ect. they just shows the level of respect that person has for them. Which translates into none. But, it also looks like people that use those words to describe the working female are only looking for sex and nothing else. So, I guess those words do fit their defintion of picking a female only for sex.

Along these lines I also find it interesting that many threads focus on only sex and how cheap an individual can get it for. I think Thailand and the females have alot more to offer then just sex."
DITTO AND DOUBLE DITTO.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 12:54 pm on Aug. 15, 2002

Ballsburstin (You should have a doctor look at that BTW),
I just read your post and truly impressed by your wisdom, insight and generosity of spirit. I hope your lady knows how lucky she is. Here's to ya!

-- Posted by cmore on 8:51 am on Aug. 16, 2002

Hey guys, cmore here (DAMN! Mr. Joe you really are slipping these days. I managed to wiggle out of the straight jacket yet again and tip toe right past you and you didn't bat an eye. For shame, for shame). Nice to hear from yet another brother who has this extremely strange idea about treating Thai women with a little kindness and respect. Wouldn't it be nice if this particular disease were very contagious? The only bad part is that there will always be someone trying to find a cure. Modern medicine can have it's draw backs. I agree with Sir Mr. Joe (I thought the queen was the only one that can bestow knighthood on somebody). BallsB. you're more than alright in my book also. I like your way of thinking because I think exactly the same. Are you sure we aren't twins? (Don't worry Mr. Joe, the ambulance is on the way. I programmed my phone with the number on speed dial after the last stroke). I live in America and my lady lives in Bangkok so it's not like I can hope on my bicycle and ride over to her place to peek through a window and see what she's doing (Or who). Even if I could I would hope that the love that I hold in my heart for this woman would keep me from taking that ride. I also have to remember that she too is in the same boat. She can't take that ride anymore than I can. So what options does that leave us? Two that I can think of. #1 is trust and #2 is one shoe on and the other in mid air waiting to drop. Everyone on the planet has the right to be trusted. You only give up that right when you do something to abuse or betray that trust. By showing these ladies a little trust you are giving them something that few of them have ever experienced before. You're giving them a gift and as most of us know very few Thai ladies are in the habit of turning down a gift. Yes there are some that are in the habit of pawning or selling the gifts we give them. Only you can decide whether or not that's considered a betrayal of trust. Now as far as the other shoe dropping is concerned, that's just common sense, but don't sit around waiting for it to happen. Don't look for it to happen but be prepared for it if it does happen. I'm over here and she's over there. What we don't know won't hurt us. I'm sold. However I'd be more than a little hypocritical if I didn't say the thought about doing a little checking hadn't crossed my mind. Whenever a spam is sent to my email address I normally just delete it without even reading it first. A few weeks ago I did get one that caught my eye so I saved it. It was for a new software that can be paid for and downloaded at the same time so that it can be used immediately. What does it do? It allows the user to secretly enter into someone elses email address and read their messages. It's suppose to be for parents that want to find out what kind of sickos are emailing their kids. The cost for this download was only 39.95. Not much to pay for peace of mind right? I saved this spam a month ago but for some reason I never actually went through with it. Wonder why? What we don't know won't hurt us. I'm sold. By the way, if any of the brothers are planning on asking me to forward this spam to them, sorry, I just deleted it today. Why? When I got home from work today and checked my email there was a letter from my lady. As most of the brothers already know I met my lady when she was working as a hostess in a beer bar. As far as I'm aware she has only worked in beer bars as a hostess, never in gogo bars as anything ( Remember that annoying trust thing we talked about earlier). She was pleased to inform me that starting tomorrow she will be starting a new job. Which beer bar this time you ask? Sorry, this time she's working in a coffee shop. Why did she seem so happy to be working in a coffee shop? The pay cannot be that great. Her reason for the job change? She wanted me to be proud of her and to know that she's being a good girl. After reading her letter I deleted that spam from my in box and immediately ran my internet washer program to erase it completely from my hard drive. What we don't know won't hurt us. What we do know reaffirms my belief in trust. Peace

-- Posted by The Doc on 9:23 am on Aug. 16, 2002

Most Thai girls are into survival ethics. They do what they have to do to survive. Of course the gov. here only educates them to a 6th grade level so they have few alternatives to selling flesh. Like in most large groups you will find all types, from the sluts to the sweethearts. Guys do treat them with respect. What goes around comes around.

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 9:26 am on Aug. 16, 2002

MrJoe, cmore

Thanks for your kind words, I blush a bit (and DK, thanks for this fine forum in which we get to express ourselves). cmore, looks like we musta been separated at birth. Hmm, wonder if I'm the "evil twin?" Ha, ha, ha!

Yeah, I did think about checking up on her, via ThaiPrivateEye, et al, but that would only be if I decided to take the ultimate step. For now, she's in BKK trying to finish school (an opportunity she didn't get growing up outside Udon Thoni), and I'm here in the States. But I'll be spending most of September with her, helping her to pass her English exam. I think both she and I have our eyes wide open about what we are trying to do, and neither of us know if it will end with a "happily ever after" sign. But that's not a reason to not try.

We tease each other once in awhile about doing shorttimes one each side of the planet, and it helps to affirm that we can laugh about it. You're right, it's about mutual respect and trust, and understanding that the inconsistencies are often cultural, not intentional. She has always tried to show me "the good manner," as she describes it, and I try to reciprocate.

Cheers!

Balls

-- Posted by MrJoe on 10:22 am on Aug. 16, 2002

Hey bro's, where are all the flames telling cmore, balls and I to get a room and stop flirting? If I didn't know better I'd think youre a bunch of sensitive types!

-- Posted by kmanrox on 10:26 am on Aug. 16, 2002

Quote: from MrJoe on 10:22 am on Aug. 16, 2002
Hey bro's, where are all the flames telling cmore, balls and I to get a room and stop flirting? If I didn't know better I'd think youre a bunch of sensitive types!

get a room and STOP Flirting!!!!

-- Posted by MrJoe on 10:28 am on Aug. 16, 2002

Oh, now I'm hurt. I'm taking my ball and going home.

-- Posted by vinny on 11:13 am on Aug. 16, 2002

I originated this thread because of genuine concern for a good friends 'future'. He still knows no knowledge of this but will see it on hard copy within the next 2 weeks on his return to the UK.

The first few responses were as I expected. But it seems we have moved on to the somewhat 'happy-ending' or perhaps - getting there 'scenarios'.

I am personally relieved, (for my friends sake) and for my personal understanding with regards to LOS - that love can conquer!
I understand on principle (somehow), why LOS BG's become BG's. It is so very different, it seems to me to than their counterparts in simular 'resulting occupations' in the West (Note: I am from the UK).

I am in the Carribean at the moment and 'succumbed ' the other night to a 'professional lady'. I really regretted it afterwards! Why, well I am not sure; I just felt she got me at a low ebb and took advantage - doesn't mean I have a bad feeling about her - but I do have a bad feeling about me. What I am trying to say I think, is that the way these ladies operate in LOS has the possibility that they are looking for love! Maybe because it's for survival, but that's better perhaps than most Western or (Carribean women) motives for 'action' which I begin to feel more so day by day is for greed of money - full stop!

I hope, one day, to fall in love again myself , and be genuinely loved back also!

Deep down, I guess after my last visit to LOS, I hope it happens with a TG, but that's because I loved the country and the people per-se and for no other reason. In other words my heart tells me that is where I want to place my roots! I just feel it could be my home!

-- Posted by cmore on 11:16 am on Aug. 16, 2002

You're not the only one that's going home Mr. Joe because Balls just may have confirmed the fact that we are twins and even I just went through the most intense case of the tingles ever recorded. Balls are you sitting down? My lady is also from Udon Thani and I will be arriving in Bangkok on Sept. 22 for one week. Coincidence? Two cmore's born 5 minutes apart. Be afraid guys. Be very, very afraid (I will be sleeping with the lights on tonight). Peace (NO! NOT REST IN PEACE! MOOOOM!)

-- Posted by cmore on 12:21 pm on Aug. 16, 2002

Hey brother Vinny, nice to hear from the esteemed originator of this topic. It's also nice to hear that some of our Happily Ever After stories have helped to put your mind a little bit at ease where it concerns your friends situation. There's only one problem though. HAPPILY EVER AFTER IS A LONG WAY OFF! Both myself and my twin Balls (DAMN! Did that come out wrong!) are still going through the learning process ourselves and believe me it ain't easy. I guess I shouldn't be speaking for him (Yeah! Don't you have enough voices in your head already?) but I think it's safe to say that we both have enough common sense to keep both of our eyes open and we're patiently, not anxiously, waiting to see if the other shoe is going to drop. I don't know your friend but if he's smart enough to have a caring friend like you on his side then I would have to assume that he is pretty intelligent and not easily taken advantage of. Still as I've said before some of these ladies are very good at acting so the best we can do is give them the trust that they deserve (And wait to see if they'll abuse it), show them kindness and respect and keep your eyes open for falling footware. If you're still a bit uneasy about her and about meeting her then may I make a proposal (Okay, this should be interesting). I will be in Bangkok from Sept. 22 through Sept. 29 (And yes I will be bringing all 29 of my prescriptions so don't worry). Brother Balls will be there also although I don't know the exact dates (Hint, hint), and you'll be there to meet your friends lady for the first time. If we're all going to be there during that particular week, and if Ball's lady can afford to take a break from her studies then may I suggest that we all get together for dinner one day. Maybe if we make this a group thing you will be a little less nervous about meeting her and maybe two guys that have already been there might have a fresh perspective to add. If worse comes to worse at least we'd all have made a new friend and shared a good meal together. I was planning on taking my lady on one of those dinner and sight seeing boat rides on the river one night that week. Two's company, seven (Or eight) sounds like an enjoyable evening (Mr. Joe you should have your mind washed out with soap :)). Think about it guys and let me know what you think. In the mean time Vinny have a little faith. There are a lot of bad apples in Bangkok, but your friend may have picked himself a plum (Okay which one of you guys took over my hand just then and made me write that mush). Peace

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 12:55 pm on Aug. 16, 2002

cmore,

Geez, my hairs are standin' up on the back of my neck! So you must be from the missing half of that torn up old photo my mom gave me! Ha!

Well, I like your idea of dinner, but bad news is: arrive Sep 2 and leave Sep 24. So looks like we will have to rain check. Am also heading upcountry to her family's place for a good part of my stay (farm is already planted so I can just goof off) -- my life will be tough: her mom cooking my meals, no water buffalo to feed (they have a tractor), maybe even take a side trip to Vientiene for few days. (BTW, Vientiene, Laos is a nice place to check out if you haven't yet. Has a really beautiful Wat in the heart of the city, very old wooden building weathered to the most amazing shades. And if your lady is from Udon Thani, she probably speaks Lao too).

Hmm, I depart from the original topic at hand, but maybe the fact that we have adventures up country and down south helps the original poster of this thread to assure his friend that real friendships and relationships are possible.

(Ow! was that your shoe dropping on my head??!!) ;-)

- Balls

-- Posted by cmore on 1:16 pm on Aug. 16, 2002

Hey brother Balls, sorry I won't have the chance to meet my evil twin during my trip. I would suggest that since you're leaving on the 24th that we meet on the 23rd but that's the night that my lady and I are going out on a very special date that we've been planning for weeks. My mental health may be gone but I still value my life so that night is definitely out of the question. Have fun brother and try not to strain yourself too much lifting that heavy fork up to your mouth at meal time :). Peace

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 2:16 pm on Aug. 16, 2002

cmore,

Ditto brother cmore. Since my last night will be Sep 23, she would have me drawn and quartered if I didn't spend it giving her 110% of my romantic attention.

Enjoy your trip, and save me a seat at the table the next time around!

- Balls

-- Posted by MrJoe on 3:39 pm on Aug. 16, 2002

Oh to be young and in love...

Vinny, make no mistake. For every love story ther are (5, 10, 20?) tragedies. But yes, it must be said that there some happy endings.

In my case, after lots of both, wait for it...I'm in my tenth year of cohabitational bliss and and it just gets better and better. (Permission granted to gag or groan.)

(But stillI'm a pig: I do still desire HOT MONKEE SEX w/ other girls. I know I'm repulsive, what can I do?)

Anyway BallsB and Cmore it does this old cynic's heart good to hear about your romance and may it live on.

-- Posted by cmore on 7:40 pm on Aug. 16, 2002

Okay Mr. Joe, you've got me confused (And believe me with this amount of medication that's no longer as easy as it may sound). First off you're talking about HOT MONKEE SEX, while I'm talking about HOT NAKED MONKEE SEX! The two are totally different. Anyone can have HOT MONKEE SEX, but it takes a Jedi master of the highest level to handle HOT NAKED MONKEE SEX! I thought I was ready to handle it. CAN YOU NOW SEE WHY I'M ON MEDICATION. Secondly are you repulsive? No, you're human, AND MALE! Thinking about it is what we do. Not acting on it is what got you elevated to Jedi status. Peace

-- Posted by zzzZ on 7:02 am on Aug. 17, 2002

Balls - thanks for the words of wisdom. I think you are pretty much on the mark. I think the real issue is that Thais have a different definition of love than us farangs do. You gotta get used to it or it is impossible to play the game...

My lady is really sweet, and there is no question she cares for me very much. Otherwise I'll make sure she wins an Academy Award for best actress :-)

But, she did ask me the bigggggg question today -- "will you take care of me?" I knew that was coming as she's had trouble with her job lately (she's not a BG). Never asked directly for money, but we all know what "take care of me" really means, huh?

So, how to play that out? I've been around the block more than a few times and am cautious but to be honest if you care for someone, and you want to help them, what's the harm? As long as it isn't big money, that is... Any advice from those who've been through it before????

-- Posted by cmore on 9:44 am on Aug. 17, 2002

Hey Z Man, nice to hear from yet another brother that believes in treating Thai ladies with kindness and respect. I think we're starting to gain on them guys and this is one race that I would love to win. To answer your question Z, I never got the Will you take care of me question from my lady because I decided to give her the answer before she had a chance to ask it. Come on guys, we all know perfectly well that there's a good chance that someday she might end up asking that question so why not beat her to the punch. Instead of waiting weeks, months or even years for that particular shoe to drop why not get it over with and end the suspense now. Want to know what my answer to that question would have been if she had asked? No, I will not take care of you. However it would give me great pleasure to help you to take care of yourself. I understand Z that she's having troubles with her job and finding work (non bar related work) isn't easy, but it also isn't totally impossible. If she's old enough to work she's old enough to take care of herself, but that doesn't mean that we all couldn't stand a little help now and then. You said it best yourself, If you care for someone and you want to help them, then what's the harm. You've just reached apprentice Jedi status. If I were you and you were me (You'd be in a world unlike any you've ever dreamt could possibly exist :)) this is the conversation I would have had if my lady had asked me that question. "Honey I know you're worried about losing your job, but I also know that you're a strong, intelligent person and I have no doubt that you'll be able to find a new job soon. In the mean time I want to do as much as I can to help so until you do find a new job I will chip in as much as I can afford to help you pay your bills. Just remember that I too have bills to pay and that what I give you, even if it may not seem like much, comes from the heart. And if you show me how capable I know you are by finding another job very quickly then I would be happy to continue to help you by adding what I can to your salary so that maybe you could move into a better place or send a little extra home to your family each month. How does that sound honey?" Want to know what her reaction would be to this? There isn't a brother on this earth that can answer that one for you. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Showing these ladies a little kindness and respect goes a long way. Why? Because it's not something that most of them have ever experienced before, especially on a level that high. For a man, especially a foreigner, to show her that he cares about her so much that he would put himself at risk just to help her during her time of need and continue to help her after her situation has improved... Well like I said no one can say what her reaction would be. Care to find out? Peace

-- Posted by zzzZ on 6:08 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

cmore -- good stuff..couldn't agree more. my tactic is very similar. i don't like to just blindly help people..i am not a charity. however, it appeals to me greatly to enable people to help themselves. like buy her a better computer, help her find a job with connections that i might have, paying for english school, and, in the interim, help with some bills. that's a much better approach. just blindly saying "sure, here's $500 a month" is nothing sort of stupid...

i'm only in bkk about 5 days every 6 weeks, so it's pretty tough to maintain a relationship, but we're both making a go of it. god knows we could both easily have other people, so i think there must be something there if we both want to try...

anyway, thanks for the excellent words of wisdom!

-- Posted by MrJoe on 7:42 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

Ah yes grasshoppers. The principles of which you speak were covered in the lesson "The Difference between being Khon Dee (good person)and being a "Spon-ngo" (a combo of sponsor and the Thai word for idiot.)" If one acts like the first, one is treated as such. If one acts like the second, one is thought of as such. Contemplate-Exhale-Ohmmmm...

-- Posted by MrJoe on 7:58 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

cmore,
it was a slip, but perhaps a Freudian one; Am I the only one who thinks a few bits of strategically placed fabric can add immeasurably to the whole Visual Trip (An inherent component of HOT MONKEE SEX). I've even thought I should start a thread; True or False- A partly clothed (lingerie, latex, teletubbie costume) girl is sexier than a naked girl.
In my opinion grasshopper, one of the signs of reaching Jedi knighthoood is your ability to (without coercion of course!) get your women to WANT to dress up for you.

-- Posted by The Doc on 8:12 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

I agree. Most of the girls I can afford always look better with thier clothes on.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 8:15 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

BTW cmore and BallsB,

Though not my current one, the Love of My Life (the one whom I let go and will regret for the rest of my life...you know, that one) was from-yes.. Udon. Most of my favorite TGs (and male thai friends) over the years have been from there or Nong Khai (which used to be part of Udon).

At the risk of sounding like a pedantic ass (Why stop now MrJoe?) the Isaan dialect is not exactly the same as Lao but they share a great deal and certainly a girl from Udon would have no trouble communicating with Laos. For that matter, Thai is not that different and it has become a language that pretty much replaces French and Russian as the essential foriegn language for Lao people to learn, so even a Central Thai speaker won't have much problem.

-- Posted by cmore on 8:25 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

Hey Z Man, thanks. Anything I can do to try and help the brothers, although I'm starting to feel like the Ann Landers of the internet with all this advice to the lovelorn (AW MAN! Don't tell me another personality has just been added to the long list of voices screaming in my head. It's starting to get a bit crowded up there). Anyway I agree with you that long distance relationships are hard to maintain, but they are truly worth the work and effort when you meet the right person. Sounds like you may have. Enjoy this time young Jedi but always be watchful of falling footware. A bump on the noggin can be very painful at times. I'm glad to hear that you get to see your lady on sommewhat of a regular basis. Try this one on for size. My return trip in Sept. will be my second one and that will be 4 months after my first one. FOUR MONTHS!!! (OH MAN! Somebody go get the straight jacket and HURRY!). And the next trip won't be until next summer (I can't afford to come during high tourist season), so check back with me after the first of the year because if we're still together at that time then I will have written the book on maintaining a long distance relationship and I'll send you an autographed copy. Peace

-- Posted by The Doc on 8:27 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

I agree totally about Nhong Khai and Udon, even though my tiloc of the last 9 years is from Ubon. I think the girls form Nhong Khai are great. And Cheap!!!

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 8:47 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

Falling in love with a BG on a 7 or 14, 25 day trip is crazy. I've done these trips. Living 10K from your honey, not speaking Thai and she for the most part not understanding english. Both comming from totally different cultures. Then you get lust that comes in to play and a bit of lonelyness. Crazy!! NO MATTER HOW YOU WANT TO PHRASE IT, bg, working girl, the girls no matter how nice they may seem, responsive they may be in bed are all getting paid for services rendered. They are whores and the young guys, middle aged guys and soon to be senior cits who are newbies to LOS and the many charms of the ladies need to understand what they are dealing with. The number of bg who are emailing a fair number of guys at the same time is amazing. Guys who work at the internet cafe make a real good baht writing english emails for the girls. How do I know this. A bg I've gotton to know gave me a run down of each of the bg's she worked with. Allmost all the girls have Thai husbands or boyfriends many of the girls don't like flangs and are only interested in the money and that they prefer old men like myself because we can't go as long as when we were younger and we have more money. Of course my bg is "different" yah right. Here the differences, shes in here late 30's and knows her days are numbered in the bg bussiness and she's looking around for what's next and who's next. I understand where's she's comming from and I've no problems with it. I always treated her with respect and I always PAID for services rendered. No matter how nice it is, it AIN'T romance guys, it's business. I have a hard time understanding why guys travel 10K to marry a whore? I understand caring and liking them but marriage! Millions of Thai girls work 7 days a week, 8 to 10 hours aday for 6 to 8K baht per month and they don't do it by spreading their legs.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 9:09 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

I haven't got the energy to get into whether there's ANY truth in the last posting (there is SOME, sadly, despite its bitter, judgmental an unneccessarily harsh tone and its very limited perspective). No doubt there will be two opposing views on this topic. It will be interesting to see how many of those who agree with BigDUSA are like himself, not located here and base their conclusions on info provided by second hand sources (A BG no less; I thought they were alll dishonest BigD?).

I will leave it up to the other bros to suggest that maybe some people are treated only as "johns" because they view the women only as "whores".

-- Posted by cmore on 9:22 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

Hey Mr. Joe, how's life treating you? I still haven't heard back from you about the dinner idea but there's still plenty of time so no rush. Not afraid of having me around Mrs. Joe ARE YA! (You have learned much Jedi master:)). Anyway about the dressing up issue, I'll let you know after she and I go on our first official date on Sept. 23. HUH? you may ask. The last time I was there she and I didn't really go out at night by ourselves very much. We mostly went out with our family and by family I mean my new extended family. In other words her roommate and some of her coworkers at the bar she use to work at. As of last count I now have, besides her real family of course, 3 sisters, a brother and a young man that liked me so much that he wanted to be my son so he made my lady his mom. Only problem with that is that my lady is 23 and he's 27 so the son was born before the mother was. This just fits so perfectly well into the wonderful world that is Cmore. The closest we came to going out just the two of us was when she took me to see the royal palace. So this will be our first official date with only us and we plan to get dressed up and paint the town (No not blood red BallsB. I'm the schizoid twin, you're the evil twin remember?). I'm very much looking forward to seeing what her idea of dressing up will look like because I've only seen her dressed in mostly jeans and shirts (And in the morning wearing one of my Tshirts :biggrin:). I'll let you know how she looks. By the way guys, I don't know about the rest of you but I've noticed that the best time to see exactly how gorgeous and sexy my lady looks is when she first wakes up in the morning. No offense meant to the other ladies of the world but Thai ladies must have some kind of special gene in them that other women don't. How else can you explain how someone who doesn't have any makeup on, has puffy eyes, and hair that looks like she just stuck her finger in a light socket can look so beautiful. If anyone can figure out how to put that into pill form I've got dibs on the patent. Peace

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 9:41 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

MrJoe,
What parts are untrue? I'm not bitter or harsh about the girls. I have a great time when I come to Thailand. I've been there 10 times and comming back next April. I treat the girls with respect, show them a good time and pay them the going rate. When I come back to the bar a few months later they remember my name and they all want to hook up not because I'm a great lover or a big spender but they remember that they have a good time with me. I aim the previous message to NEWBIES that when they get to LOS they don't expect the girl friend experience. They start to think with their heart and "minime" and not with thier head. I agree I make the tone harsh because I'm trying to get over one point. When you pay a girl for services rendered it's business not romance. As long as you remember that and "minime" in check the newbie will be ok.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 9:46 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

cmore,

apropos dinner. e mail me, let's do it.

re; "dressed up"- You innocent lad you, I didn't mean going out. In fact no one got it. Am I that freaky that no else knows what I'm talking about? I don't want to shock you but I meant wearing various apparel while having sex. (Hence the segue from HOT MONKEE SEX minus the NAKED, get it?)

Oh but my sweetheart is a nice girl you say. I say: What better turn on (assuming both are into it)?- a nice girl dressed/acting like a bad girl. Need I say, I speak from experience? (Mrs. Joe is very sweet and ladylike outside the bedrooom...of course I will not elaborate.)

I know what youre thinking now - " I'm not going to introduce my sweetheart to that dirty old man!"

-- Posted by cmore on 10:00 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

Hey Mr. Joe, if you ever again have any doubts about how you have achieved Jedi status then please reread your last post to permanantly dispell those doubts once and for all. However I must warn you to refrain from abusing your powers the way you did. Using the Force against a lesser opponent is not our way (A bar girl no less. I thought they were all dishonest Big D. Classic Burn Dude, Totally. That was my California surfer voice giving you a salute). BigD is a brother just like the rest of us and I will always support him and his views even if I don't happen to agree with them. To all the brothers reading this, be kind when you put in your 2 cents worth. Just remember that on this particular thread we prefer to use terms like ladies or women. Remember the saying, You are what you eat? Well lets try to keep in mind that most of these ladies are not what they do for a living. Peace

-- Posted by MrJoe on 10:05 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

BigDUSA,

You're points in last post are all valid and well taken. I hear you. As far as the previous post I would only venture that like any generalisation it is only a part of the picture.

And with all due respect, I'm not sure of the relevance of the fact that most Thai women aren't prostitutes. Good for them. I admire their fortitude and perseverance- but I'm not willing to be so judgmental as to suggest that BGs girls are somehow morally inferior to them (or be so hypocritical - I spent a lot of time chasing after those BGs and enjoyed the hell out of it; How about you?)

-- Posted by MrJoe on 10:10 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

BigDUSA,
Just want to add that no doubt it is safer to have the attitude you suggested, especially for Newbies, but I believe that it will be limiting and ultimately detrimental to the experience someone will have here.
cmore,
Totally dude. Alas I did not read your post in time. Yes, one must use the force judiciously and with mercy.

-- Posted by cmore on 10:23 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

Hey Mr. Joe, I'm just waiting to hear back from brother Vinny about my dinner proposal in one of my earlier post. Will let you know. Trust me, I got what you meant about dressing up. My problem is that I would be a little nervous about bringing up something that might activate that losing face gene that Thai women have. I mean I can just see me pulling a sexy Teddy out of my suitcase to give to her and watching her burst into tears because she thinks that I think she needs help to be sexy. I've read about guys giving Thai ladies perfume and them getting upset because they think we're saying that they stink. Trust me, the thought is up there (That's the only time all the voices are quiet at the same time and I can finally get some sleep). Believe me I would love to try the nurse fantasy, the schoolgirl fantasy, the covering each other in butterscotch pudding fantasy (Oh man, they're awake), but I think I'll err on the side of caution and discuss it with her carefully when I see her. I'll let you know what happens (OH NO YOU WON'T!). Peace

-- Posted by vinny on 10:36 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

Hi Cmore - I would love to give you a definite date of my arrival but no can do because:

I am in the Carribean now and return to UK on 20th Aug on an 'emergency passport' cos I have had mine stolen here!

Hope to get a replacement passport asap when I get back, but first have to find my birth certificate and all that!!

Once, I have new passport in hand and have sorted out all other sorts of admin stuff I can book my flight to LOS.

Rest assured I will be in touch when all sorted and hopefully you(s) will still be around on my arrival to LOS.

-- Posted by cmore on 11:32 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

DAMN! brother Vinny, you can't win for losing. Would it be safe to assume that you won't be planning a return visit to the Carribean anytime soon? Sorry to hear about all you've had to go through. I would tell you my motto about what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger, but right about now I'm pretty sure you're not in the mood to hear that crap so I hope things work out for you. I'll be in Bangkok from Sept.22 through Sept.29. If you're there that week and your friend and his lady are willing (And Mrs. Joe has come down off the chair after hearing that she might actually end up trapped on a boat with me for 2 hours with no escape) then we'll come up with a plan. Let us know what happens and keep in touch so that the brothers can know that you're okay. Peace

-- Posted by MrJoe on 11:33 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

cmore, cmore...
A true Jedi doesn't ask. He wills it be and she suggests it. Yes, it CAN and has been done (with various degrees of ease). BTW, lest you misunderstand, it matters not the "type" of girl. Sure, if it's a "wild girl" it's easy (and fun) but all 3 of my long term TGs got into it and they were all quite quiet and even somewhat sexually conservative (before they fell under my spell.) This is NOT something that can be made to happen. You ALLOW it to happen. Zen and the art of Kinky Sex

Mark my words, if you wish it, it will eventually be so, the force is strong with you.

-- Posted by vinny on 11:44 pm on Aug. 17, 2002

Cmore,
If I am not in BKK by 22 Sept I will be very very upset! So things are hopeful. Whether my mate will be back their with his GF at that time I won't know for sure for a week or two (cos he returns to UK on 2nd Sept for a spell). Fingers crossed though all will work out time-table wise for your suggested dinner-date.

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 1:11 am on Aug. 18, 2002

BigDUSA,

I don't find your words harsh, and I think every newbie should read 'em and not let "minime" run the show. One does find a sense of balance in the cultural and economic distances (or should I say "chasms," as in Grand Canyon size) only after spending some time in and out of LOS and Asia -- gives one a time to find the happy medium. That's why I always point people to Stephen Leather's "Private Dancer" as a starting (but not ending) place for those whose toes would venture across the great divide. I'd be lying to say I haven't bumped (and grinded) my way through the types of girls you describe, but when I found my current TGF, it gave me pause. Regardless, your words help to keep this discussion level, lest it turn into an outright lovefest bewteen cmore, MrJoe, and me. Ha!

MrJoe: thanks for the language info on Laos. Haven't spent nearly enough time there, it's on my radar, and all info helps (been going underground in Cambodia a lot these days, and loving it).

- Balls

-- Posted by MrJoe on 2:13 am on Aug. 18, 2002

"...your words help to keep this discussion level, lest it turn into an outright lovefest bewteen cmore, MrJoe, and me."
I second that, and I don't entirely disagree with BigDUSA either.

-- Posted by zzzZ on 7:17 am on Aug. 18, 2002

BIGDUSA -- I agree with a lot of what you say, but honestly I think your experience has been the typical experience most farangs get the first 15 times they go to BKK. I mean, I don't live there so won't call myself an expert, ok...but i've been 35+ times plus have lived in Asia for 7 years and worked there for 12. Now, at least the first 20 times I went through a standard process of Patpong, then Cowboy, then Nana, maybe Soi 33, with a dose of Thermae thrown in when it was good... but after a while you dig deeper, and go to "real" places and the experience is different. Now, make no mistake, Thailand is unlike any place on earth, and even in "normal" bars there will be working girls. However it is a different scene and it is also possible to find non-working girls. Once you've had that experience your opinion might change.

Now, there's nothing wrong with hanging out with BG's where everyone has fun and everyone gets what they expect -- you fun and sex and they money and fun. Fair cop. If that is what you are into (and who could blame you) I can't say a thing because I think you nailed it on the head.

However, I really want to stress how much more is out there is you are open and willing. All Thai girls are not sluts or whores working for money. Maybe they want men to take "care" of them...but I've known more than my fair share of Western ladies who put money before anything else too...isn't that a female thing rather than a thai thing?

Bottom line is find someone you like, someone you respect, and someone you can have fun with. If that's a BG, then that's ok if that is what makes you happy. At least there's a huge amount of honesty there (unless you are stupid or blinded by your newbie experiences with a thai girl). But I think there is a lot to be said for non-BG thai girls as well and they aren't so easy to find...

just my 2 cents..

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 8:31 am on Aug. 18, 2002

The Thai girl friend experience is the reason I travel 10k and 24 hours stuck in cell block 18C back in the cheap seats. On the short stays the only girls guys like us can meet are BG. Nothing wrong with BG morally as a guy who grew up poor I can understand why there in the bussiness. But they are working girls. If I lived in LOS I would have no problem meeting and dating normal Thai women or BG. I would have a choice of partners. I aim this type of message to the newbie who comes over and is dassled by the experience and end up falling in love and sponsering some BG who's feeding him a line of BS and is supporting her Thai boyfriend on his money. One of the guys on this board is currently on the receiving end of another guys support. I want to save some guys broken heart.

-- Posted by zzzZ on 9:06 am on Aug. 18, 2002

Yep, I'm with you 100% on that one... when you coming back? I'll be there again second week of Sept.

-- Posted by cmore on 10:48 am on Aug. 18, 2002

Hey guys, nice to hear from so many of the brothers on this thread, but it looks like we have veered seriously off topic lately (And this is coming from the king of going off topic), so I would like us to try our best to get back on track. The name of this topic is Falling in Love and it was originally started by brother Vinny out of concern for a friend who he is worried might be getting too serious too fast with a Thai lady. He wanted to hear from the brothers about their experiences with Thai women, both good and bad, so that he might know how to better advise his friend. Friends like that aren't easy to come by. As expected the negative reports came in first from the brothers concerning the problems that developed with their wife or girlfriend. However it didn't take long for the positive side of the discussion to come up and for brother Vinny to hear about some of the success stories that have happened with Thai ladies (Maybe it would be better for me to say success stories as of this moment because not even a Jedi can see into the future and success can easily turn into failure when you least expect it). So far brother Vinny has a decent amount of ammunition from both sides of the coin to offer some reasonable advice to his friend but I'm sure that a little extra wouldn't hurt so let's try to hear other positive and negative experiences that other brothers have had with their Thai wives or girlfriend until brother Vinny says that he has all the ammo he needs. Discussions concerning all Thai women in general, whether good or bad would probably be better off moved to a new topic thread. As for brother BigDUSA, it makes me sad to see you standing there with one foot over into the dark side of the Force. I hope you never take that extra step. Peace

-- Posted by MrJoe on 12:49 pm on Aug. 18, 2002

I would say that with the last 2 posts from zzzZ and BigD, we have achieved a nice balance and IMHO they are both spot on.
BTW zzzZ, I didn't mean to suggest that one has to live here to know what's what. You obviously have sufficient experience and of course EVERYONE (even Newbies, which you are not) has a right to an opinion.
Another view to be considered; Even if your TG has a heart of gold and the best intentions, she may still be your downfall. There is baggage from having been a BG for both parties to deal with and sometimes irreparable damgae has been done to the TG. Not to mention the difficulties inherent in a cross-cultural relationship. I'm sorry, but the odds are against you. (But it CAN BE DONE!)

-- Posted by zzzZ on 9:06 pm on Aug. 18, 2002

Hey MrJoe... thanks for your post. One thing though, my girl is not a BG and never was. She's a university graduate, working on computers, but she has done a small amount of freelance to make ends meet but only in the last 6 months. That is over for now (hopefully forever). So, there is still some baggage for sure, but a bit different than the Patpong BG type in my opinion... Still, there are definitely a lot of issues to contend with when you have a thai gf as opposed to other nationality...things are just very different!!! that can be real good, or real bad...

-- Posted by riddle on 9:45 pm on Aug. 18, 2002

Vinnie,

During my last trip to Thailand my friends and we met and talked with several TG. I categorise them in two groups: those who want money and those who have money. However one girl who was on her own holidays in Ko Samui, a member of the last group, is going to marry a young Englishman in February 2003. A true fact is that she drank one bottle of whiskey and screwed every night another farang. I don&' t know why but for me this is a strange habit. She could do it to have fun before she marries the guy and then live with him on a monogamist base. However n=1!
A more positive story is that another girl, a member of group1, who hasn&' t money and is a gg-girl met another guy to marry him. After they fell in love she didn&' t quit working in the bar but quit going with customers, of course she got money from the guy. Again n=1.

The facts is that every girl, whatever their background is, goes for true love, yes even in Thailand where family and money is more important than true love in a relationship.... Times are changing, especially for those girls working in a farang-environment&...
So how can you now if it's true love? And thrust the girls when she is alone? Well I think is to stay with her a period and stay realistic, with a good grasp of the cultural distinctions. (Trial and error) If you have doubts about her just quit the relationship, how harsh it can be for yourself. Maybe this sounds too analytic, but it worked out for me (even with my non-Thai girlfriends)

Riddle

-- Posted by cmore on 11:09 pm on Aug. 18, 2002

Hey guys, nice to see this topic getting the focus back. Z Man, I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're alright in my book. I don't know if your ladies freelance period happened before or after you met her, but as far as my lady is concerned I choose to adopt the philosophy that what she did before I met her ain't my business (The same applies to her). What matters now is what happens next. Everyone has a past (although I will admit that a Thai woman's past can be more than a little colorful to say the least), but if you choose to focus on the past then you might as well end it now because you don't stand a chance of making it work. I'm not saying to block out the past completely, just file it away further back in your mind under Q or R rather than up front under C or D. Trust me, there's no way I will ever be able to file my ladies past permanently in the Z section. Why? Because the last guy she fell for 5 years ago left her with a sizeable parting gift, 8 pounds and 7 ounces (Personally I would have preferred jewelry :)). The past will always be there, for both of you, but it sounds like you've adopted a positive approach to your relationship so more power to you. Enjoy this time brother Z, just keep looking out of the corner of your eye for falling footware. I do, trust me (That shoe is poised directly over the last remaining sane section of my brain so I'm looking from all 4 corners, believe me). And should that shoe ever drop at least I can say it was worth it for many reasons, but one very special reason in particular. The night I met my lady she talked about her son and how he lives with her parents because it hurts so much to be around him or even look at him because of how much he reminds her of his father. That was 3 months ago and since then I've done my best to try and help her see her son in a more positive light. I even sent him a present last month for his birthday (And was shocked as hell to find out that it actually made it all the way to Udon Thani without a problem). Now here it is 3 months later and the two of them are talking and calling each other on the phone all the time (and that's one bill I'm very glad to help her out with). Are things going to work out for the two of us (Pardon me, 3 of us)? I can't even hazard a guess at this point. What I can say is that if things don't work out at least I will take away with me lots of good feelings and experiences and one very precious memory. That there is a very sweet young man in Udon Thani that may have just gotten his mother back. Peace

-- Posted by vinny on 11:23 pm on Aug. 18, 2002

Cmore, your last post brought a tear to my eye. May your joint happiness continue to blossom - I for one am routing for you - c u soon!

-- Posted by cmore on 11:37 pm on Aug. 18, 2002

Hey brother Vinny, thanks for the words of encouragement. I know I can be an opinionated ass some times (Only some times?) but this a very dear subject with me and I would like to see things hopefully work out for your friend as they have (so far) worked out with me. I hate going off topic again but how are things going with getting your passport situation taken care of? Hope everything will turn out okay. I'll let you know more about dinner soon after I hear back from my lady and brother Mr. Joe. Let us know how things work out for you. Peace

-- Posted by zzzZ on 2:23 am on Aug. 19, 2002

Hey Cmore! The freelance was before I met her. And I couldn't agree more with you .... look forwards not backwards!! Same thing applies to most things in life..

Now, if she started freelancing again behind my back I would have a major problem with that. But so far so good. She even asks permission to go out and makes me call her when she gets home :)

Anyway, so far so good and even though we are so far away the commuication is very good -- call her everyday (thanks for phone cards) email, and instant messenger. So it ain't that bad.

So, to stick witht the thread. Cmore nailed it when he said don't look at your TG's past or it could bury you. Look forward, and keep a watch out the corner of your eye just in case! :-)

-- Posted by nokna on 4:48 am on Aug. 19, 2002

you sure she is not freelancing?.

how can you know for sure?.

-- Posted by vinny on 5:29 am on Aug. 19, 2002

Hi Cmore and all other bros,
Now have papers to get me home at least and then I guess I will put the Carribean experience behind me and concentrate on returning to LOS, once other stuff sorted.

Here's to all of you who have been so helpful and revealing, (of their own experiences particularly), in this very important thread.It matters a lot and I feel I am amongst real friends.
(Just hope my pal sees it the same way)!

-- Posted by zzzZ on 5:52 am on Aug. 19, 2002

Nokna -- to be honest, i have to no way to be 100% sure. but we talk all the time and i really don't detect any sign whatsoever that she's freelancing.. I guess it's called "trust". So far, no warning signs. She seems very dedicated and not interested in other men. But time will tell, eh?

-- Posted by cmore on 6:13 am on Aug. 19, 2002

Hey guys, brother Nokna is right. The only way we can know for sure is to have someone check her out, but as I've said in the past a little trust and respect goes a long way. Everyone deserves that first level of trust, I don't care who they are or what they do for a living. Once they receive it it's up to them to decide what to do with it, but somehow I think that most of them are up to the challenge and we need to start having a little more faith in them. I think a lot of the brothers would be pleasantly surprised with the results. Peace

-- Posted by MrJoe on 10:03 am on Aug. 19, 2002

zzzZ,
Sorry bro. I should have made it clearer. When I used the word "you" in the second paragraph that was adressed to the brothers at large-not you or anyone specific. I did not assume that your girl was a BG not that it matters to me). You bring up a point I even considered starting a thread on; Getting involved with a 'good girl' and all that entails- real good and real bad. I hear you bro. And yes, it is a different situation from being with a BG.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 11:15 am on Aug. 19, 2002

BTW,
For those who want more feedback, there are some great posts from Brothers Peter, Dave, et al in similar threads last year.

-- Posted by The Doc on 1:36 pm on Aug. 19, 2002

Bullsh_t. You don't have to check her out. These girls practice economic survival. Most likely if you are sending money to a lady here she will also be getting checks from several other countries as well. To imagine that someone is going to ride into town on a white horse and save these girls "from their life of sin" is crazy.
Can you blame her? What would you do, if you had a kid and no good husband upcountry who used to make you to do BJ's on the bar owner to pay his bar bills?

-- Posted by The Doc on 1:42 pm on Aug. 19, 2002

Reminds of the time I was arriving at the airport and saw this very romantic scene between a lady and her departing boy friend, both were crying and saying "Don't worry. I'll be true." As soon as he entered the terminal and couldn't be seen, she turns to me an asks me I am heading toward Patpong, and oh my the way "She Loves Me Too Much."

-- Posted by MrJoe on 2:07 pm on Aug. 19, 2002

I once acompannied a girl and her "boyfriend' to the Airport for a late flight/ goodbye. On the ride back to town, she talked about what a good guy he was, how much she cared, etc. (I don't think she was lying either) then when I said I was going straight to Peppermint she said she would go too.

About 2 hours later she offers to take me to Koh Samet for a holiday (and made it clear that sex on the beach was included), paid for with the chunk of money given to her at the airport.

Here's the topper: she's a really nice girl.

-- Posted by zzzZ on 6:59 pm on Aug. 19, 2002

yeah, today i got hit up with the "can you help me" question... 10,000 baht. guess i knew that was coming. this board has been a great source of info!

i honestly think she isn't getting money from anyone else, seeing anyone else, or freelancing. she doesn't have a kid, has no family (father died), and only supports herself.

i'm getting the feeling that this is part of the thai package... have to admit i never sent money to a girlfriend before...

-- Posted by cmore on 6:24 am on Aug. 20, 2002

Hey brother Z, looks like it happened just like you thought it would, but it's not like you weren't expecting it and were caught unprepared. I don't know what your financial situation is but only you can decide if your lady is worth your help from this point on. I know it isn't much but I have a lot of faith in you young Jedi and I know you'll do what's right for both of you. I'm curious to know, not that it really makes a difference, whether her question Can you help me was a request for one time help because something came up or a request for a monthly allowance until further notice. Feel free to say no comment and please think long and hard before you give her an answer one way or another. I know you want to help your lady. Just don't forget to save some help for yourself as well. Peace

-- Posted by zzzZ on 6:44 am on Aug. 20, 2002

Hey Cmore! Yep, more or less what I expected. I don't know if the request is a "one off" or a monthly until further notice. I suspect it is a monthly (come on, of course it is!!).

But 10,000 isn't so much, especially if you care for someone. I did make it clear to her that I had been around the block and knew exactly the way most BG's play this sort of thing. She isn't comfortable asking for money, so certainly hasn't pushed things yet. It took 2 months for her to ask for this, and it's really just covering her basic expenses. Way I see it, as long as she's honest, and doesn't play me like a fool, I don't have problem with it. I certainly get my money's worth anyway :)

It will be interesting to see if the amount stays the same or whether it creeps up after a couple of months! Will keep you posted!

-- Posted by cmore on 6:57 am on Aug. 20, 2002

Damn brother Z, you take all the fun out of worrying about you when you use logic to figure these things out for yourself. Now 50% of the voices in my head have nothing to do except go back to dealing with me and my problems. THANKS A LOT! PEACE!! :)

-- Posted by zzzZ on 8:07 am on Aug. 20, 2002

Yeah, Cmore, but the brotherly support always helps. Even though I'm not new on the block I'm still in uncharted territory. I never sent a girl money before so it's a weird and new experience. Just gotta be cautious which is why I air it on this board!

-- Posted by MrJoe on 10:03 am on Aug. 21, 2002

Obviously my story didn't make much of an impression (I thought it was a pretty classic example.) Not surprising -- you guys don't think I am as interesting as I do!

I was waiting for someeone to ask me if I went with her to Koh Samet. Well know I'm just going to pout and not tell you even if you want to know (I can hear you all yawning and switching to another thread.)

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 1:36 pm on Aug. 21, 2002

O.K. MrJoe,

Curiosity is killing me! So what really happened on Koh Samet? I'm sure by now everyone has switched to a different thread, so that won't be listening ;-)

Balls

-- Posted by MrJoe on 1:50 pm on Aug. 21, 2002

BallsB,

You're right, we' all alone. Now I have to ask, why do you assume that I went with her? Wouldn't that have been disgustingly immoral of me? After all, I knew (though not well) her latest boy friend. Did I go with her under those conditions?
You bet your ass. (Flames? Bring em on.) It was pretty fun and would have been great except ironically I was trying to get over a TG (who had moved to England when I refused to make a commitment to her).
But there WAS sex on the beach... and in the ocean, and in the bungalow...
Yes I was heartbroken but my dick didn't seem to notice.
Sorry if you were hoping for some exciting details BallsB, I'll try to remember some.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 1:57 pm on Aug. 21, 2002

Damn, I can't believe I did that. I was determined not to answer if anyone asked me whether I went with her-then I just confessed!

BallsB, don't tell anyone!

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 3:08 pm on Aug. 21, 2002

MrJ

Don't think anyone was listening, so yer secret's safe with me (besides, I couldn't hear much with this arrow stuck in my ears. Suppose an arrow is better than having all those voices that keep cmore up at nights). But, I bet there are some juciy details yet to be told? ...

Another question, MrJ (feel free not to answer if it's too personal): when you went to the American Embassy, and they sh_t on you (a fine "thank you" to a soldier at arms), what was the final outcome? Did they give your girl a visa? I doubt much has changed since then (the morality police are as active as ever, Stateside), but I'm curious.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 4:39 pm on Aug. 21, 2002

BallsB,

Because I lke your style and you were sensitive to the fact that it's a sensitive topic, I'll answer your question;

By the time they were ready to process the visa, I was fed up and planning to return to Thailand. The damage had been done: they insulted, demoralized and emotionally abused the young lady and I am convinced that the difficulties and the seperation contributed to the failure of our relationship (Not to say that it wouldn't have failed anyway - but that's not what I pay my taxes for - some bureaucrat deciding who I should be in a relationship with).

I totally understand that screening must take place. I understand not wanting people who are going to commit crimes (prostitution) or become dependant on the government. In my case i had all the proof of a long term relationship and my stepfather (multi-millionaire I discovered to my surprise) had his lawyer draw up papers accepting financial responsibility.
It was a horrible experience all around.

-- Posted by zzzZ on 8:34 pm on Aug. 21, 2002

MrJoe...this is one reason why it is so hard for a farang to maintain a relationship with a TG! (you are just a convienant example, not raggin on you, man).

Fact of the matter is that if you have a hot TG, endless farangs will continually come out of the woodwork to hit up on her, even if she isn't working or hitting up on them. Someday there is bound to be someone richer and better looking to steal her away or at least make her cheat on you...

And being out with your girl doesn't stop other farang from assuming she's "just working" and hitting on her every time you go to the bathroom or even right in front of you. Now that sh_t pisses me off. These same guys would never in a million years do that at home... but somehow they feel in Thailand that they can behave differently.... Believe me, I've seen it enough.

Anyhow, right now I've found a nice lady, who's not a BG, and so far she's fending off any stray attempts by other farangs to steal her away. But how long will that last? Just one of the many complications in having a relationship with a TG, so newbies beware! There is a lot of wisdom on these threads...

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 12:24 am on Aug. 22, 2002

MrJ

Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear the otucome, it is what I feared it would be (worse, actually). I don't want to submit my TG to the same disregard for human dignity that you endured. She is actually very shy -- ironic, considering she was a go-go dancer. When I asked if she'd ever danced at a real disco for fun, she said "no, I too shy!" Go figure. But this is the type of person who would be deeply wounded by a sanctimonious beauracrat giving her the 5th degree. Sad, because all she wants to do is visit the States with someone who holds a piece of her heart, and enjoy visiting some of places she can now only see on TV or in a book. I will proceed with caution.

-- Posted by nokna on 1:14 am on Aug. 22, 2002

for all of you who fall in love,you have my sympathies.

on my first visit i fell in love with a girl.
i was that infatuated i wanted to bring her home to england.

but the british immigration system is so difficult to breach,i gave up with my attempts.
but after 2 years the girl and i keep in touch and i will never forget her.

-- Posted by cmore on 12:28 pm on Aug. 22, 2002

And for all of you who fall in love, you have my deepest respect. Falling in love is not the easiest thing in the world to do. Meeting someone for the first time, spending time with them, getting to know them and them you, getting past the first few weeks of sweetness and light before you both feel comfortable enough to start being yourselves, learning about each others faults and flaws and how to cope with them, and finally, the moment of truth when you both admit your feelings and learn that the other one feels the same way. Falling in love can be a very beautiful and rewarding experience that takes a great amount of patience, time, respect, and commitment from both of you. Unfortunately all of that only exist in the real world. LOS is a world that only exist 1 to 4 weeks at a time, 2 or more times a year. LOS is a world of make believe and illusion, a world of slight of hand, and a world where you arrive with your heart and depart with it left behind in someone elses hands. So how can anyone possibly fall in love with someone that they have only known for a short amount of time, in a world of make believe and illusion. It isn't easy, but what in this world is. All fairy tale worlds have their dragons and trolls and wizards. They also have a handsome prince who rides in on his white horse in search of his princess. However LOS is a fairy tale world unlike any other. Instead of dragons they have elephants. Instead of wizards they have street vendors that are very good at making your money disappear. As for the handsome prince riding in on his white horse, I think most of us are a little more comfortable riding in on a Boeing 747. That just leaves the princesses. How hard is it to find a princess in the Land of Smiles? Just throw a rock and you'll hit one (Hopefully one that hasn't taken up Thai boxing). How can you be sure that your princess won't someday turn into the evil step sister? You can't be sure. All you can do is have a little faith and give her a little trust and turn to the next page. Is there a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow? If you're willing to put in some time and lots of hard work you just might end up with the greatest treasure you could ever imagine. Is all of this worth the trouble? I won't speak for prince Balls B and prince Z, but as for myself, even the court jester can find love in the land of make believe. So to all you newbie princes out there who are planning a visit to LOS just use your common sense, go to the main page of this excellent forum and visit the newbie questions section and read all the wisdom that the other princes have to offer you, and even though you should always err on the side of caution please keep your heart open to the possibilities. They are there, all you have to do is look for them. You may be reading this book for the first time, and you may only have made it as far as chapter 2, but if you're lucky you'll make it all the way to the end of the story and as we all know most fairy tales always end with And They Lived Happily Ever After. Peace

-- Posted by MrJoe on 12:54 pm on Aug. 22, 2002

cmore,
Good to hear from you bro. A fine post indeed. (Admit it tho', you're pissed at me aren't you? You thought I was a decent guy like you and now, with all this talk of scoring on other guys BGs and the like...)

zzzZ, I fear you have made some not entirely accurate assumptions (clearly you were reading between the lines but I think you misread a bit.) No harm done though because you made valid and accurate points for all to consider.
Just for the record;
1)Seperation can cause damage to a relationship in and of itself; there doesn't need to be infidelity - (absence, not "being there" fror the person, etc)
2)I was the asshole who was unfaithful.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 1:04 pm on Aug. 22, 2002

BallsB,
Thanx for the support bro'. It's stilla painful matter for me and it's been... wait for it...15 YEARS!

The TG in question, amazingly sounds similar to yours,; Rather delicate and shy (PAUSE FOR LAUGHTER FROMTHE CYNIC'S GALLERY) and not eqquped to deal with the sh_t she got. (Wait a minute...where were you in...)
Now here's the punch line; One of the reasons I was what we called a 3time volunteer (Army, Jump School, Ranger Bn.) was because I actually believed in the ideals on which America is founded. Yes, I know it's corny (and strange from a die hard Liberal) but I did it for my country (OK I had some selfish reasons as well but let's go with the drama), and I used to tell my TG about those ideals and how, though they were often not lived up to...Yadda Yadda.... I really believed my Embassy would do me right.

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 2:45 pm on Aug. 22, 2002

cmore: sorry to continue the lovefest, but a most eloquent op-ed indeed. I can add nothing.

MrJ: your advice is valuable to me at this point, thank you for sharing a painful memory; the terrible part is she does sound a lot like my TG. So I can understand your anger, even after all these years. Simply reading the visa form made me angry. I will try do the right thing and learn from your experience. Thai girls are really better off in Thailand, and if it means killing her spirit to visit the States, then the price is too high.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 3:02 pm on Aug. 22, 2002

BallsB,
with the help of a lawyer I got access to a complete(?) report on the screening interviews. The questions were asked and anwered in Thai, then translated to English.
To summarize just one example of the vileness contained;
Q; What if your boyfriend were black, would you still want to be with him in US?
A: I don't care, I ust want to be with him.
CONCLUSION: SUBJECT STATED SHE DIDN'T CARE WHO SHE MARRIED, SHE JUST WANTS TO GO TO US.

Now, am I saying that you should not take your girl to the US. No- it would be sad to give up the possibilty of her meeting your family,friends, and experiencing that amazing country. Do I agree that it's something to think about very hard? Need I answer?

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 3:32 pm on Aug. 22, 2002

MrJ,

An ugly set of people indeed. I wonder if the more politically correct mood of our times would prevent them from getting away with that level of sh_t these days. I wonder if these ratfinks still work at the embassy. Wouldn't prevent them from stamping "undesirable" on her passport, but at least they would have to be more underground about it. Regardless of the spin, no one in D.C. really cares about what happens to this particular TG.

-- Posted by cmore on 7:44 am on Aug. 23, 2002

Hey guys, sorry for my being missing in action lately. I've been working on getting my trip plans in order and I'm still working on a few details, but it looks like things are shaping up nicely. I'm taking my lady and some of my extended family to the beach resort of Cha Am for 2 days but we aren't leaving until Wednesday so if any of my fellow Jedi's are available, the tentative date for our get together dinner is Tuesday Sept. 24. That date is not 100% carved in stone but I would say to go ahead and mark your calendars. Now when I first brought up the idea I thought about going on one of those dinner on the river boat tours, but those things last for 3 hours and can be a little pricey so if brothers Z, Vinny and yes this includes you to brother Mr. Joe (And no I have no reason to be pissed at you) can make some suggestions for nice restaurants in Bangkok that accommodate small groups then maybe we can make this happen. Let me know what you think guys. Now to get back on topic Mr. Joe, what you did or didn't do with someone elses lady is between you and her. Only you can decide whether or not you made the right choice and the only person on earth who may or may not have the right to be pissed at you because of it would be Mrs. Joe, even though what you did before you met her is none of her business. She is the only one that has any say about past relationships because something from your past may one day come back to haunt you and that would affect her as well. So it is because of Mrs. Joe and all of the other Ms. or Mrs. in our lives that I again bring up the name of this particular thread, Falling in Love. Hearing about all the different TG's and BG's that the brothers have met over the years is very informative, but unless you've been in love with every Thai lady you've ever known then it's time to tell a different story. The best story of them all. I don't want to hear about the one that got away, I want to hear about the one that is still here. I want to hear about Mrs. Joe. Any woman who can put up with a man, any man (come on guys, you know we aren't the easiest creatures on earth to get along with. That putting down the toilet seat thing can be a deal breaker :) ) for ten years deserves to be inducted into the Jedi hall of fame. And if I remember right you once used the word cohabitate which leads me to believe that there have yet to be any knots tied in this relationship. Suddenly I have this picture in my mind (which normally takes the form of a Picasso) of a very strong, independent lady who knows what she wants out of life. I now have a new hero in my life. This is someone I hope to have the chance to meet next month because I'm positive I would take a great deal of wisdom away with me, but should that not be in the cards then I would at least like to hear all about her. We don't need to hear details or specifics. We don't even need to know her name on this forum (If you want to know my ladies name you'll have to hear it from her in person at the restaurant). I don't want to hear about them or they on a thread called Falling in Love. I want to hear about her and I mean all of the her's. I've told you about mine, now tell me about yours, and if you choose to tell about the one that got away then tell about the one that mattered (or hurt) the most. Things for brother Cmore couldn't be better at this time, but time is always moving forward and if I were to open a door and step into a world ten years into the future what would I see? Would I see a man all alone in the world or would I see my Mrs. Joe stealing the blanket from me at four in the morning? Tell us about Mrs. Joe and Ms. Z and Ms. Balls B and all the other Ms. and Mrs. who are in LOS right now with or waiting for their Mr. Show me whether it's better to open that door or leave it locked. Peace

-- Posted by MrJoe on 10:25 am on Aug. 23, 2002

Wow cmore,
You've done it again: I'm rather blown away by your post. It was a bold demand you made and it was so eloquently stated that I have hard time saying no to it. I will consider it and respond later.
BTW- We were married in a religious ceremony but not legally (fairlly common for Thais). The reasons for this are complicated but it is at least partly related to the fact that I was previously married legally but without the ceremony and I guess I somehow want to distinguish the two marriages as I was sure I would only get married once in my life. My first wife died shortly after our marriage.

-- Posted by cmore on 7:39 pm on Aug. 23, 2002

Hey Mr. Joe, thanks for the reply. Don't forget to let me know about dinner and your suggestions for a restaurant. I'm still waiting to hear from brother Vinny and Z also, and it's a shame brother Balls B won't be able to make it. I was so sorry to hear about the first Mrs. Joe. She's in a better place and watching over you. As for the present Mrs. Joe I've heard about that ceremony that the families have performed sometimes when the lady brings her guy home to meet the family. WOW! and I was worried that they might not like me :) . I guess I won't have to think about that next month because there won't be time this trip to go to Udon Thani. That trip won't be made until next summer (if hopefully we're still together by then). To be perfectly honest I'm sitting here writing about it to you and I can honestly say that I'm not feeling any negativity about the possibility of that happening to me. I guess I'll know better in about 10 months. Anyway I hope you'll honor the brothers with the story of Mrs. Joe. She sounds like a remarkable person. You don't need to include any specifics, just tell us about her and what it is that has kept you two together all these years. You two are our role models (NO PRESURE THERE HUH?). Give the rest of us a reason to believe that there's life exist beyond Sukhumvit. Peace

-- Posted by slojo on 9:16 pm on Aug. 23, 2002

cmore,
Read your post, interesting to say the least. I also see we have a common interest in Udon Thani.If you get a chance send me a private e-mail it is listed under my profile.

-- Posted by zzzZ on 11:47 pm on Aug. 23, 2002

hey cmore. I might actually be in BKK on the 24th.. so maybe we can hook up. i will be there the week before and passing through again on my way home.. so we'll see..

not sure about best places to eat...it's always been kinda random for me so i'd be interested to hear what others suggest too...

ah, falling in love with a TG. mine is really a sweetie, and so far so good. i think she's playing it pretty straight which is cool given all the stuff i've been reading here! but i'm only 2 months into it so we'll have to see what happens in the longterm!

cmore, where you from, btw?

-- Posted by cmore on 8:44 am on Aug. 24, 2002

Hey brother Z, glad to hear I might get to meet a fellow Jedi next month. I'm still waiting to hear from brother Mr. Joe and of course brother Vinny the originator of this fine thread. Let's do our best to make this happen guys. Brother Z two months may not be a long time (for me it's been 3 months) but in matters of the heart time has no meaning. I know things are moving forward very quickly for me and my lady, but at this time it just feels right. Who can say what's going to happen for the two of us. To be perfectly honest if there was a door that could lead me into the future I'm not so sure that I would want to open it (well maybe just to check tomorrow's winning lottery number :)). I think there's a lot more joy involved in not knowing. Kind of takes all the fun out of it if you already know whats going to happen next. Yes knowing in advance can save you a lot of heartache and no one deserves to go through that kind of pain, but at the same time getting through that pain and moving forward is what makes us stronger. I know this is a crazy thing to say guys (Yeah right, look who it is that's saying it), but feeling pain is what lets us know that we're still alive (I went to the dentist yesterday for a root canal and if I had any doubts before that I'm alive HE TOOK CARE OF THOSE DOUBTS ONCE AND FOR ALL!). Only in extreme cases can too much pain lead to tragedy (I read a couple weeks ago in Stickmans weekly about a young Thai girl that was so in love with a foreign guy that when she asked him to marry her and he said no she commited suicide. Such a waste of a precious life). We all go through pain at one time or other in our lives, it's how we deal with it that counts the most. I've had my heart broken on more than one occasion, but I refuse to let that keep me from taking another chance on love. Yes it hurts but the heart is one tough muscle and I'm still alive. I'm alive and once again enjoying this wonderful feeling (for as long as it last) and hoping with all my heart that 3 months ago I met my Mrs. Joe. Keep the faith brother Z. Mrs. Joe's are rare jems in this world but they do exist and they are out there if you're willing to take a chance and look for them. Sounds to me like you already did. I hope I'll have a chance next month to meet you and your Mrs. Joe. Peace

-- Posted by MrJoe on 9:36 am on Aug. 24, 2002

cmore,
Just a quick one to thank you, on Mrs.Joe's behalf for all the praise and I feel obligated to tell you that she is deserving of it and then some. Not a one of my friends have failed to be impressed by her, including the most hard heartedand cynical ones who almost never have a kind word to say about TGs (sadly I did used to hang out with some of those).
And let's not forget the estimable Mrs. Chateau-apparently another precious find.
BTW we will almost certainly meet up, and I look forward to it.

-- Posted by cmore on 10:43 am on Aug. 24, 2002

Hey Mr. Joe, you know you're right. I can't believe I completely neglected to mention Mrs. CJ. My apologies to brother Chateaujade for the late induction of Mrs. CJ into the Jedi hall of fame. We can use all the strong, independent, and loving Thai ladies on our side that we can get (especially if they look as good in leather as I'm sure Mrs. CJ probably does :)). That's one more for our side guys. The truth is out there (so are you Cmore). Who's the next Mrs. Joe or CJ to step up to the plate? Peace. BTW brother Z, I'm from Michigan. Just check my profile and you'll get my email address and web site. If you need to talk to me in private then feel free to send me an email anytime. Brother Mr. Joe if anyone knows of great places to eat in Bangkok then you're it. What do you recommend? Let us know. Peace out

-- Posted by zzzZ on 11:58 pm on Aug. 27, 2002

Cool cmore. Hope we all get a chance to meet up. This thread has gone a little quiet lately....

Things continue to go well with my TG as we talk on the phone every day, email, and instant message and things are real cool.

I'm 100% sure at this point (still only less than 3 months into it) that she's for real and not playing games (cheating, working multiple sponsers, etc). In fact, maybe she's fallin too much and things are going too fast...

So, a question for you guys. I've heard all the stories of the manipulation, and having multiple sponsers at the same time, and that nasty stuff. And I have no doubt that if you play the odds, most will be like that, especially if they are BG's (for lot's of reasons already discussed). Now, my question is, what about the other extreme, where the lady is REALLY sincere, and falls in love (maybe too fast) and gets real emotional, and all that? Have any of you had that experience and how did you deal with that?

I mean, for my part, I'm crazy about my TG and she treats me real well. I couldn't complain about a thing. But things are...moving pretty fast. Makes me wonder if there is an "i want to marry a farang" agenda going on...? I don't feel anything from her but sincerity, but when I read these threads I always get cautious!!!

Cheers..

-- Posted by MrJoe on 10:03 am on Aug. 28, 2002

zzzZ,
From your posts, I know you're a decent guy who is being sensible - so I for one think you deserve a good answer. What is it you fear exactly - that she wants more commitment than you? If so, you have some cause for concern. I will elaborate later ("Oh no!" cry all the brothers) but let me simply ask: Have you seen "Fatal Attraction"?
Almost every guy I know who has spent time here has at least one of those storys to tell. To paraphrase the old saying; Talk about fury - wait until you see a Thai woman scorned.

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 1:57 pm on Aug. 28, 2002

MrJoe,

There are a number of Fatal Attraction stories in the Bangkok Post now and again. You certainly don't want your TG throwing herself (or you) to the crocodiles!

BTW, the hours rush by ... will be in LOS next week in the arms of my TG (for nearly a month). That still looks 555. She's even bought herself a new skirt and shoes to surprise me with at the airport. Cute.

In response to zzzZ's concerns about getting too serious too fast, I think TGs are famous for being protective of their territory (yep, that means you, brother zzzZ). But if zzzZ's TG has the kind heart he suspects, then she will expect a progression in the relationship, more so than would a Western lady. Every lady has a different "internal calendar" for this, but I've yet to meet one that didn't. I think you can slow the pace of this somewhat, while still allowing you to learn about and grow with each other. But if she's serious, she will expect you one day to marry her. So you'd have to ask yourself if this is what you want.

I'm not exactly an old fart yet, but I'm not a spring chicken in my 20's anymore -- I've gotten a lot of the ST/LT out of my system (maybe I'll go through another phase of that in my 70's, ha!). So for me, the answer to "would I marry my lady in BKK?" is yes, if we find that we can truly grow together. We won't know the answer to this for a while, but since we are both happy with the pace of our relationship, we have the time to find out.

zzzZ, if you find that her expectation of the pace of your relationship is radically different from yours, than you'll need to talk about this, or you will have a lot of friction that might unnecesarily tear apart your relationship. As a practical matter, I wouldn't worry too much yet, 3 months isn't a long time, you still have plenty of time.

-Balls

-- Posted by MrJoe on 2:19 pm on Aug. 28, 2002

Yet another fine contribution from BallsB! (One of the names I always look for under "Last 25".) Wasn't that a trip?! That woman throwing herself to the crocs!

Let me say that IMO BallsB is correct when he speaks of an "internal calendar" that has more impact than it would on a western woman. There are some basic cultural/social reasons; Only two of which are;
A)Much greater empphasis on defining one's self through marriage - for both women and men in this country you are not truly a successful, "good" member of society if you don't have a mate - as opposed to a western woman who might be admired for her independence. And let's not forget how important other people's perception of them is to a Thai.
B) Quite simply there are no mechanisms in which a person's welfare will be looked after by the state. Unless they are reasonably wealthy, their future almost completey depends on having a spouse - as opposed to a western woman; even one who wasn't wealthy would have a much easier (not necessarily easy but easier)time on her own.
I think BallsB has given you some very good advice.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 7:57 pm on Aug. 28, 2002

zzzZ,
I meant to give you a more complete answer but I think BallsB covered it. I was serious about the fact that TGs have been known to go completely insane over rejection (second only to the jealousy rage), but at the least "you will have a lot of friction that might unnecesarily tear apart your relationship." as BallsBB put it so well.
I agree also that it's too early to worry but not to soon to consider.

-- Posted by zzzZ on 8:36 pm on Aug. 28, 2002

Good advice, I think. I'm fully aware of the jealously that most thai girls possess, and mine is no exception to that...man oh man. Was in a disco last month and she was dancing with my friend for a while. She went to the bathroom and some girl came up to her and asked her if she was sleeping with both of us and that I was looking at her and could she go with me! My TG got furious, first because she isn't/wasn't working and second because she thought I was looking at that girl. Turns out that I wasn't looking at her and didn't even know what girl she was talking about (and I never found out). But that didn't stop a huge fight. At least it ended with fantastic make-up sex that made the whole thing ok in the end :-)

My TG hasn't pushed for marriage, or anything like that, but I am definitely getting a lot of "i love you so much" type things that make me wonder. And in an email she once said "I will be a very good wife to you" which was either a lapse in her english or a subtle hint about something...

3 months is not a long time, and you are right that things will take their natural course. However, 3 months is not a long time for a lot of "i love you's" either. At least it hasn't been that way for me in the past. In any event, it's all harmless so far and I'm enjoying my time with her emmensely.

But man is she the jealous type. Guess that runs with the territory as I've seen it in lot's of other TG's as well in the past....

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 11:58 pm on Aug. 28, 2002

zzzZ,

This comes under the title, "Every lady, BGs included, is an individual." My TG would take a very different tack if she were approached in the bathroom by a TG asking her that question. She would just get a bit sullen and then come back out and sit by me. And then I would probably never know why she suddenly got so quiet (she wouldn't want to lose face by telling me what happened).

I remember once, when she was quitting the go-go bar scene, she said, "teelak, I not care if you do short time, short time, but then I just go away." She said this with a sad look on her face -- I think this is the kind of behavior she had come to expect from men and was a bit surprised when things didn't work out that way. So, yep, she's as jealous as any TG, but she expresses it differently, by cutting her losses, not my private parts!

- Balls

-- Posted by MrJoe on 8:25 am on Aug. 29, 2002

zzzZ,
As Balls put it, "Every lady, BGs included, is an individual." Clearly this applies to all people, but after almost 20 yrs of close observation allow me to generalize a bit; let me tell you that the unfounded irrational jealousy, as opposed to one that has some basis (or appearance of) misconduct on your part is a SERIOUS warning sign IMO. It is an indication of some severe insecurity at the least. And it will cause lots of problems.
I strongly believe it will never end and due to the nature of its cause, will probably increase in severity. I
have had GFs who were sweet, kind, and oh so loving - but had to deal with escalating insaneness every once in a while. Eventually the make up sex is not compensation enough.

At the risk of sounding like I'm saying there's only one RIGHT kind of girl -which of course is ridiculous, who am I to say what's good for you- there is "another kind" of girl (I'm simplifying, I don't mean to say that there are only 2 kinds of girls) who is not irrational in that sense and when she IS jealous, she won't act like a lunatic. I went out with a couple like that and I married one. Balls' girl sounds to me like she has ALL the right signs of being a keeper and this is one of those signs IMO.

As for the "wife" comment. It's partly semantic, partly cultural; If you begin to have a committed sexual relationship with someone, you are their "puua" (husband) and she is your "mia" (wife) - regardless of whether you're married or not. So it's just a word, right? Yes and no.

-- Posted by zzzZ on 8:37 am on Aug. 29, 2002

Thanks MrJoe. Agree with you and will "watch it" closely. In this case it wasn't entirely unfounded because a girl went out of her way to approach my TG and say I was looking at her. I think she certainly over-reacted, but it was brought on by something very specific. If that sort of thing keeps up it will certainly signal a problem and I don't need that.... it would be too bad as this TG is a killer in every other way (no pun intended).

Back in LOS in 2 weeks. Maybe I'll try just "glancing" at some girls while I"m with her as a test :-) Don't think it is possible to hang out in LOS without a stray glance once in a while, huh? I will keep you up to date on what happens!! :-)

Oh, and by the way, I clearly found that the best way to put an end to any senseless fight like that was to call her bluff and just say "I'm outta here". She'd be on my tail in seconds begging me not to go.... ;-)

-- Posted by MrJoe on 9:38 am on Aug. 29, 2002

zzzZ,
I fear I'm going to piss you off by the time I'm finished but here goes...
First of all, I don't know your girl but I have no problem believing that she is a fine person and clearly I don't have enough information (nor the right) to judge her in any way. But if I am allowed to make a hypothetical study based on what you've told us...
First of all, I'm not calling your girl a liar but allow me to be devil's advocate;how do you know someone came up to her at all? What would such a girl hope to accomplish by telling your GF this story? You say "Why would she lie?" That's where the irrational part comes in. The type of girl I'm talking about (again, I don't know if this applies to your girl) NEEDS the drama and if it doesn't occur will manufacture it. Besides, even if some girl did come up to her - are you sure that is sufficient cause to give YOU grief?
As for her chasing after you when you threaten her, I'm sorry man but that is so typical and it's part of the pattern that requires 2 people to establish. She abuses you, you react, she makes up for it - you both feel better- love has triumphed. IMO it isn't healthy or conducive to a successful relationship and how many times can you do that before you one or both of you feel that it's a silly game?
For now let me say one more time that your girl might be totallly different from what I conjecture. I mean her no disrespect and of course you are the only one fit to decide. My intentions are good, honest.
Have I pissed you off yet? I'm not done!

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 10:07 am on Aug. 29, 2002

MrJoe,

your comments about "puua" and "mia" intrigue me. To Western ears, Thai ladies appear a bit vague when they use comments like, "he my boyfriend" or "he my husband." For instance, I was talking with my TG about some crap her ex-husband (the yaba freak) pulled, and she referred to him both as her "boyfriend" and her "husband." She was married upcountry in a local (no certifticate) ceremony, so I suppose in her mind, the distinction is a bit tenuous? (Just guessing here, could be way off base.) Likewise they were "divorced" just as unceremoniously. I've not asked too many questions about this yet, because I think it's still a fairly recent and unpleasant memory.

So my question: I've read a bit about the semantics of these words in Thai culture, but not being an expat, and being a new student of the language, I profess ignorance here. Perhaps you or some of the other expats with some years under your belts could shed some light on this culturalism? Thanks, look forward to the sociology lesson.

BTW, brother zzzZ, my own tolerance for the brand of jealousy your TG showed is pretty low -- just me, and I mean no disrespect, but I've had relationships with too much jealous "drama" (hat nod to MrJoe for that word) and found, in the end, it killed the relationship for me. Even the great make-up sex couldn't keep that boat afloat. And, ultimately, it's a boat I realized I don't want to embark anymore. Anyway, best of luck, we're all fishin' in murky water.

- Balls

-- Posted by cmore on 1:08 pm on Aug. 29, 2002

Hey guys, it's nice to be back on my favorite topic. Looks like us four are the only ones left here at the moment. Haven't noticed any post from brother Vinny for a while. Hope he's okay. Anyway I've got a few words of wisdom ( Or in my case insanity ) for brother Z but they'll have to wait until tomorrow because it's way past time for Cmore to go beddie bye. I just wanted to give you guys the latest update. I will be in Bangkok on Sept. 23,24,25. Then in Cha Am on 26&27. Then back to Bangkok on Saturday 28 and home Sunday morning. So the 23,24,25 are the days I have available if anyone is still interested in getting together for dinner. Now the only one of us that probably couldn't make it for dinner is brother Balls B because he's leaving on the 24 and wants to spend his last night on the 23 with his lady. I too have plans for a date with my lady on the 23, but maybe brother Balls might be up for a compromise. I know you want to spend your last night with your lady brother Balls, but at some point the 2 of you need to eat ( All those prayer meetings build up an appetite :) ). So here's what I propose. I can convince my lady to postpone our big date until the next night on the 24th if you and Ms. Balls B can come up for air for just 90 minutes. One hour and a half for a dinner break and to refuel ( You'll need to build up your strength for round 18 right? ). And if the brothers who want to join us are agreeable we'd even be willing to let you pick the restaurant. Preferrably the one closest to your hotel so that you and Ms. Balls B can walk there. Any chance of making that happen? I'll talk to mine if you talk to yours. If we can all agree on a time and you pick the place then the 90 minute clock starts when you and Ms. B enter the restaurant. No pressure brother B. If you can't make it then that's that. Think about it and let us know. It's just that it would be a shame if myself and brothers Z, Vinny, and Mr. Joe didn't get the chance to finally meet the magnificent Ms. B in person. I seriously want this ladies autograph. Think about it and let us know if it might be possible. No hard feelings if it isn't. Have fun in LOS next month. Peace

-- Posted by MrJoe on 1:38 pm on Aug. 29, 2002

BallsB,
Since it's just us few left let me take the time to second that motion. I too would like to meet both you and your Ti Lak. (I'm already a little bit in love with her - but don't worry I'm very in love with my wife. The only threat to her is LUST for others, and I tend to seperate the two feelings. Ever since I've found my wife, all the girls I fall a little bit in love with, I put on a pedestal and they become my "Nong Sao" - little sister. There will be no need for your girl to beat me up.)
I don't know for sure if I'll be there but let's see if we can work it out.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 8:57 pm on Aug. 29, 2002

Balls,
re: The confusion regarding boyfreinds and husbands; The problem may be the ambiguity of the Thai words themselves. In addition to the facts I mentioned before ie someone being called husband/wife without being married, the word "fan" is usually translated as boyfreind/girlfreind but in fact is commonly used to describe a husband or wife. So someone can be both a "puua/mia" and a "fan". Depending on a TG's proficiency in English, she might think the same is true in English - that boyfreind and husband are interchangeable terms.
As for the type of marriage, the kind you mention is quite common but it has no bearing on the choice of words used to describe the spouse.
re; Jealous girls. You did a really fine job of summing that up. I too have come to the conclusion that NOTHING is worth that - especially since it will eventually become not just difficult but impossible to deal with. I've had a couple stories and I have one that I bet is the WORST jealous rage story of ANYONE you'll ever meet. I'm talking blood and mayhem--not fun.

Now zzzZ is thinking, "THAT'S why MrJoe is so anti-jealousy. He had one lunatic girl and now he's paranoid. MY girl's not THAT bad." I'm certain that she is not. But my horror story is only one example among many; I have experienced or witnessed quite a ferw that were virtually just as bad. That is not to say zzzZ that your girl is one of the psycho-killers, but BE WARY.

-- Posted by zzzZ on 10:31 pm on Aug. 29, 2002

MrJoe, I promise you I shall be very wary from this point on :-)

I don't know that one incident (as described in the other post) really qualifies her as a fatal attraction candidate, but I'll watch it. I didn't point out that on that day she dranks with "the boys" all day at the beach and by the time of the "incident" had been drinking for 12 hours with us. She didn't show any signs of being drunk, either, but that no doubt had something to do with it!

Would be interested to hear your story if you feel comfortable telling it to the world!

I have to agree with both MrJoe and Balls on the jealousy issue. I don't have much tolerance for that either. It just isn't called for, and who needs the trouble?

In any event, I will be sure to give you guys a good report after my trip in Sept. I'm sure I'll have some interesting things to contribute to this thread!!!

-- Posted by MrJoe on 5:47 am on Aug. 30, 2002

zzzZ
You are absolutely correct that one incident doesn't "qualify her as a fatal attraction candidate".
In fact before I sat down at the computer, I was lying in bed (I'm not a good sleeper) feeling guilty so I want to say:
TO CMORE, VINNY, BALLSBURSTIN AND ZZZZ:
I feel badly if I have inadvertantly dissed your ladies. Not so much because it might hurt you guys (tho' I don't want to do that) but more because your ladies are probably very nice people who deserve the chance you're giving them. (And to be honest, even if they are all just conning you guys, I might still have some sympathy for them - more on that later perhaps.)
Please just take all my grumblings as coming from a cynical old man who means well.
This is NOT a promise to not be honest and straightforward in the future; I will still call 'em as I see 'em. I just felt it was time to make sure that all of you know; I haven't formed a complete opinion about your ladies (Okay, sorry to play favorites but I do have a bit of a crush on Balls' lady - don't tell him) and I have no trouble beleiving that they are fine people. More importantly, I have always known that just cause I've been around awhile doesn't mean I have the right to judge ANYONE.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 5:53 am on Aug. 30, 2002

BTW as for the scary story, I'll think about it but I have some hesitation; First there is the fact that the story is so extreme that rather than scare anyone, it might give false assurance- "Well THAT girl was just CRAZY. My girl isn't like that!" Secondly, it is a very grim story without a happy ending. (It will never be "funny when you look back on it.") I'm okay to talk about it (it's been a long time) but I'm not sure if this forum is ready for blood and death. (THAT got your attention, eh?)

-- Posted by zzzZ on 6:29 am on Aug. 30, 2002

MrJoe: Thanks. If I were 100% sure of anything I wouldn't be airing things on the forum quite like this, so it is great to get the feedback, both good and bad. Time will tell, and I will be sure to let you guys know what happens if there is an interest. So keep callin them as you see 'em. That's my style as well so I've got no problem with that.

It's not possible to introduce my TG in proper detail on a text based forum anyway. Every person is different, and you'd probably have to meet her to be able to form an accurate opinion. You tend to get the extreme details here, so I know that anything you pick up from this thread will be distorted for sure. There is a heck of a lot of "niceness" going most of the time or I wouldn't feel anything for her.. ('cause I'm old enough and have been around the block long enough not to tolerate much crap either).

As for your story, maybe you should keep that one to yourself. I get the impression there is someone no longer living as a result. I get the picture anyway!!!

-- Posted by MrJoe on 7:09 am on Aug. 30, 2002

zzzZ,
I hear you my man. Stand by your woman!However (here he goes again)...be careful about measuring things based on the niceness. IMO and experience, even the nicest people are capable of being very evil and the most evil peole are capable of being very nice. And after all, sometimes for the BGs it's not about being nice or evil, it's just about survival. By all means cherish and appreciate the "niceness" - but even if it's bad only 1% of the time, pay attention to how bad the badness is (If there is any.) I sincerely wish you both well.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 7:49 am on Aug. 30, 2002

Now for a REALLY cynical observation and just one not so scary story to illustrate;(I have come to this conclusion from numerous personal experiences and witnessing others peope's similar experience. However this is of course a generalization and therefore cannot possibly apply to anyone specific.):
The sweeter, gentler and kinder the girl, the more dangerous she will be IF she ever "goes off". I came up with this theory about 20 years and it has never yet been disproven. Case in point:
I had this girlfreind - Lek-that was just a quiet sweet little thing and I knew her history fairly well. (At the time I had been around a while and I was managing go-gos, so I knew what was what.) This girl was very popular amongst a lot of the Thai girls because she was so nice. She had been the girlfreind of a well known owner of a disco and was considered a real catch.
Well, I had just too many opportunities all around me (think about my job!) and I was not ready for that exclusive relationship, so I break the news to her. She was great! No hysterics, just a bit of teary eyes and we parted well.
Flash forward a few months: As fate would have it I meet a girl who, at the time seems too good to pass up. She's a pretty college girl and I was going through a burnout stage as far as BGs, so I start dating the "good" girl exclusively.
One night I and my new GF are at a disco, and Lek appears in front of us. She looks upset and I take her aside to talk to her. She tells me I have to leave because I brought this girl. I didn't like that so much (I was the Prince of Patpong!) and I was a VIP customer at that disco (I knew the owners well and I used to bring so many customers and spend so much money there that I would just sign my bills "Mr Joe" and clear them once a month.).
So to try to cut to the chase; After a great night I and my GF are one of the last to leave. As I step out from the club two Thai guys run up out of the darkness- one hits me on the head with a Heineken bottle and the other takes a swing. I manage to grab one and I'm having a jolly time pounding him into mush when into the light steps Lek. She reaches down to pick up the neck of the now broken bottle and I (with my hands full) watch as she lunges froward and tries as hard as she can to drive the jagged into my eye. (Fortunately she twisted it in such a way that the circumference of the bottle was too wide to get into my eye socket.)
The epilogue to this story: She hides out for a while then gets word to me that if I don't plan to have her punished somehow (I didn't) she would like to see me. I go to meet her at a freind's bar and she apologizes very nicely. Then she basically says "But you do know that you deserved it right?" Amazingly a few TG freinds who knew the story felt the same way-that I deserved it for having a new girlfreind 4 months after breaking up with Lek (most didn't agree with that though.)
BTW This is not even my worst story! I consider that night a classic BKK night. I won't bore you with all the details but that bottle attack was just beginning of the finale. (The finale took place in the emergency room with me getting stitches in my head and 2 TGs fighting over me in the lobby.) It was a great night!! (I'm not being sarcastic) and thus representative to me of life in Thailand: The heights of ecstasy and love; extreme violence and hate; and everything in between - all in one place.

-- Posted by cmore on 10:50 am on Aug. 30, 2002

Hey guys, sorry for the long absense, but work has been a real pain for the last few months which is why I'm so looking forward to my return trip to Bangkok. I am in serious need of some rest and relaxation. Unfortunately I suspect that if Ms. Cmore has her way I WON'T BE GETTING A WHOLE LOT OF REST! OR SLEEP! OR FOOD!!! Pray for me guys ( AW POOR BABY! That sound you hear is the worlds smallest violin playing in the back ground :) ). I've been reading all the latest post from you guys and I'm glad that brother Z has been getting lots of good advice. Way to look out for a brother guys. I can't really add a whole lot more then what was said in brother Balls post about Thai ladies internal clock. ( By the way brother Balls I will understand perfectly if it isn't possible to meet you and your lady next month but if there's the slightest chance then I hope you'll try your best. I'm not easily impressed by anyone, male or female, but you and Ms. B are the exceptions to the rule. Reading each of your new post always reminds me of what love truly is and what I hope to have with my lady. As for Ms. B, words cannot do this lady justice. Only one thing can. Should I have the privilege to meet this lady in person then I hope she is not easily embarrassed because greeting her with a simple handshake would, in my opinion, be insulting. Someone who has shone the amount of courage and strength she has in trying to better her situation in the face of so many obstacles has earned my respect, and as we all know there's only one way to show proper respect to a Thai person. So even though I'm sure it would be amusing for the so called regular Thai's in the restaurant to see a foreigner offer someone who they probably would never even bother to speak to such a show of respect, it would be my honor to offer her the most sincere wai that I can manage. I'm sure that by doing so I run the risk of losing a considerable amount of face in front of the other Thai's in the restaurant. Do you really have to ask if I give a @#$%&? I truly hope I'll have the chance to meet you two next month but if not I will understand. However we all have many regrets in our lives and not meeting you both would have to be added to my top 30 list. Sorry if I've embarrassed you. ) Brother Z I don't think you have anything to really be worried about at this time. As you've already said the relationship is still in the early stages and you're both still getting to know each other. I think she's just trying to feel you out about what point in the relationship you've arrived at. Brother Balls is right about her wanting to mark her territory and it does seem that Thai ladies internal clocks tick a little faster then most womens do. Just be as honest with her as you've been with her so far, but at the same time just remember to keep an eye out for falling footwear. My lady seems to have started to enter that stage as well. She now is getting into the habit of referring to me as Her Husband in the Future. We already had our talk about the future 2 months ago so I view this as a natural progression in our relationship not as anything to be overly cautious about. Next month when we're together I'm sure there will be plenty of talks about the future, but my lady has a pretty good head on her shoulders and I believe that any discussions about the future will be more in the line of "I look forward to hopefully having this happen" rather then "This is what I expect to happen". When I had "The Talk" with my lady 2 months ago I wanted to tell her about some of the advantages and disadvantages that come with living in America, but I chose instead to tell her about the one thing that would change her life forever, SNOW. I don't think that it would be a big leap to say that there aren't a whole lot of Thai's that have actually seen snow up close and personal. I'm in Michigan and believe me, up close and personal is the only way you're going to see snow here. Winter in Michigan needs to be seen to be believed. I explained the concept of snow to her in as much detail as I could. I wasn't trying to scare her into giving up all idea about coming to America some day. I just wanted her to know that even the place that lots of Thai ladies consider to be the promise land can have it's down side just like any other place on earth. So after giving her a taste of what life in Michigan would be like I made her a promise that would show her how serious I was about wanting us to work hard to build a future together. Now my lady has gotten to the point where she automatically knows that if I only say that I will do something then there's a small chance that it might not happen. However if I make a promise to her then nothing else needs to be said. She has learned to trust the fact that once I make her a promise I won't break it. I may have to postpone it for a short time due to circumstances beyond my control, but it will happen in as short an amount of time as possible. The promise I made to her was that if we're still together as a couple and if she thinks she can learn to deal with Michigan winters and with putting up with me then exactly 2 years from the day we met I would ask her if she wants to come to America to be with me. If her answer is yes then we would then start the visa process and once the visa has been approved I would come to get her. That was 2 months ago after we had known each other for only a month. The subject hasn't been brought up since. Why? I made her a promise. One year, nine months and counting guys. Peace

-- Posted by snowbird on 11:37 am on Aug. 30, 2002

Hi cmore -

A note from another "winter" country here -
I live in Canada right next door to Alaska - we have long and cold winters here, around six months actually, and surprisingly enough, there are a few Thai wives around here. Mind you, here it is a very dry cold - the poor thing would probably worry more about her complexion(dry skin, ugh!) than freezing herself provided that her sweetheart bought her adequate clothing for the climate. In your neck of the woods the humidity is the worst - there's nothing worse than "cold & wet". Try the Arctic - walk across the room and the static electricity is so bad that you almost take your fingernail off when you touch the doorknob ha ha !!

Seriously, I think snow would be a real novelty for most TG's provided they didn't have to see winter at its very worst, which I know you and I have in different ways...

Good luck, have a good one...

regards

snowbird

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 12:47 pm on Aug. 30, 2002

cmore,

Thanks again for the generous invite, but I don't think I will be able to make that 23rd date. We will be in Udon Thani up until about then (and probably in Laos for a few days) so I can't commit because our schedule there is not cast in stone. When I get back to BKK, I'll be hooking up with my friend and his TG (who should be back from the southern islands by then) for the last night (we both leave on the same flight the next day). I will try to monitor this forum from LOS, so if anything changes, I'll try to give you a heads up in a reasonable timeframe. Will be spending the first two weeks in LOS at her apartment (Suan Luang area) helping her with her school work and doing my own work on my laptop. She has major tests in the middle of September (including English), so after that we will go north to visit her family. If we don't connect, then have the best of times with your TG!

Mr Joe: don't ever worry that I would take your commentary personally or that I have ever taken umbrage with it. I value the opinions of the bro's on this forum, yours especially, because you've got a lot more water under the LOS bridge than do I. I would also agree that the sweetest of ladies are sometimes the smoldering, latent psychos -- probably better if a TG explodes like an Hawaiian volcano (often but not overwhelming) than Krakatoa! Along those lines, since I've got a really sweet one ... nah, couldn't be? Ha!

I'm a little surprised and embarrased that everyone is falling in love with my TG :-) Maybe I am painting her in too positive a shade. After all, she's just a sweet country girl. And if, as MrJoe cautions, she is really conning me, then I guess I'll gladly present her with the Emmy, as I'd have had a great ride (pun intended). Like all ladies who are climbing out of poverty, she probably has a minimum check list, with more than just the word "love" on it. But I think "love" is on that list somewhere, because when I first met her, she was being courted by an American who promised her more than I ever could in the shortterm (including marriage), but she dumped him for my relatively cheap charlie, go-slow approach. Said she couldn't live with someone she didn't love (already had that with the deadbeat ex-husband), and since she picked me at the club, perhaps the parallels with the approach MrsJoe took give me cause for hope.

I'll be busy getting ready for my departure Sunday night, but I'll try to weigh in on this thread before I leave for LOS.

-- Posted by thaiprivateeye on 1:19 pm on Aug. 30, 2002

- just to add my 2 bahts worth, and as some of the Bros. know, not many paths I havent been down in pursuit of TGs, from Politicians daughters to BGs and all in between - firstly, as the TPE, I have to say regardless of background, my figures indicate 5 out of 6 are not treating the Farang boyfriend as honestly as he believes, However, having said that - perhaps a little in the Mr/Mrs Joe fashion, my wife [ also from near Udon, actually Nong Khai ] was a 6 bottles of Heineken, as much Yah bah as she could get, and basically any farang she wanted girl 2 years ago ..... quite amazingly, in view of our history.. we now have a perfect young daughter, you would not get a more caring, devoted mum, who goes out of her way to eat good healthy food, and certainly wont drink or smoke these days. As she say's " you woke up my think " ... so of course, if you both want a relationship to succeed, it can happen, regardless of background, - obviously however, many TGs are not as committed as they make out, or as the farang boyfriend would hope, whilst the delay in issuing Visa's by Embassy's is also a ploy to test the strength of relationships ... my mates gave odds of 100/1 of mine working !! - but even longshots get up sometimes.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 3:44 pm on Aug. 30, 2002

Another good post from TPE;
I owe it to my wife to point out that SHE was the one with her sh_t pretty much together when I met her. Sounds as if you and I have more simlar stories than our wives. I too have gone "in pursuit of TGs, from Politicians daughters to BGs and all in between." Or maybe your wife and I; I was the wild one and my wife was no-drink/no drugs/sexually conservative; all of which made her incompatible with me at the time. I changed on the first 2 (okay we've been known to share a drink or a puff on a rare occasion), she changed on the third. She woke up MY think.
In any case I agree that any difference in background can be surmounted given enough good will.
Your observation on the visa issue was VERY interesting.
I don't know if you read about it on this forum, but I've experienced that first hand. People didn't believe me when I told them that it was intentional. (In the end, I would say we didn't pass the test).
Finally, I congratulate you (belatedly ) on the birth of your daughter. (Sadly, my wife and I have not been similarly blessed.)May she enjoy a long and joyous life!

-- Posted by MrJoe on 4:06 pm on Aug. 30, 2002

Balls,
I'm glad we're cool. As always, I enjoyed your post much. BTW that warning of sweet girls was not directed at you (or anyone in particular). I too have the sweetest TG ever. Fortunately, I beleive in the old adage of "the exception that proves the rule." The question is which one of us has the exception! :D After 10 years I'm not any more sure than you - so I'm not taking any chances; I don't plan on setting her off!
Don't feel awkward about your girl's popularity. The brothers obviously recognize fine quality when they "see" it. (As for me if I had known she was going to be such a big hit, I never would have fallen in love with her. I'm over her now.)
Liked your comment about the Emmy. I've always said something similar about any of the fine, sincere TGs I've known: "Maybe I'm a fool and I can't see it but;If she's acting THIS well, she deserves whatever she can get from it!"

-- Posted by MrJoe on 6:40 pm on Aug. 30, 2002

To The Brothers In Love: APOLOGY(?) #2:
Recently, I misread a post and briefly thought someone had made an unwarranted assumption about the Mrs. and I didn't like it much. This gave me some insight on how things I have said might of upset people. In actual fact I didn't make any assumptions, but I think some people might feel that I did.
Perhaps the problem is I took it for granted that were dealing in unknowns, therefore everything was conjecture. When we spoke of things which haven't happened (and may never happen) we are hypothesizing based on the only things we DO know - that which has (sometimes/often?) happened before - and out of necessity sometimes we generalize.
I also take it for granted that generalization is exactly that; general and not directed at anyone personally.
Also, I think that sometimes people misunderstand my directness. A lot of so called straight talkers when faced with saying something critical will go right up to the point and expect people to read between the lines. I don't do that; My remarks don't require interpretation (maybe clarification - like I'm tryin' to do now). If I don't come right out and direct my comment at someone particular, generally it's because I don't have anyone in particular in mind.
Most of all, my favorite role is that of the devil's advocate unless someone takes a position in which I really can't find any fault.
Anything I say about the possibility of ugly behavior on the part of TGs should be considered in light of the fact that I have MANY TGs who are very special to me and I KNOW for a fact that there are some very fine people who come from that unlikely place that many of us find our true love.
Finally (a cheer goes up from the crowd), I take it for granted that my opinion is just that; An opinion. And it's mine. My situation isn't yours and ergo (I just wanted to use that word once in my life) neither is my perspective. It doesn't apply to anyone else and is only intended as more data for people to make their own calculations with. But even I don't assume I'm always right, why would I expect any of you guys to think I'm always right. (I would expect you to think I might be right sometimes.)

So I say to you perhaps my last comment on the dangers of "Falling In Love":
HAIL TO The Brothers In Love! MAY YOUR LOVE TRIUMPH!!

-- Posted by MrJoe on 7:45 pm on Aug. 30, 2002

TO The Brothers In Love: A FINAL (promise!) ADDENDUM;

I think I pussyfooted around too much on that last post (after going on about what a straight talker I was!). So let me be blunt. If I were given so much information that I felt able to come to any (tentative) conclusion about your TG, let alone a negative one, I would tell you. Even face to face and certainly on line, I have the nerve to say &" I think your girl is&... &" If I haven&' t said that, it&' s because I haven&' t thought it. I see and point out potential warning signs, yes. They are not meant to infer anything about anyone.. Ultimately I&' m a contrarian. It&' s very un-Thai of me but, I believe that progress often comes with conflict-which needn&' t be acrimonious. (Think about it-look at history: political systems/social structures/technology etc.).

If everyone was on this thread were saying only all the reasons why one should NEVER fall in love with a TG, I would definitely being giving the opposite view. But THE reason why I joined this forum was that I was struck by how little negative comment there was. It restores my faith in Falangs that so many of them, even many of the real horndog perverts (like me) have such high regard for the TGs. I think that&' s GREAT. I think highly of the ladies, I want others to too. After all my wife and many of my Nong Sao are TGs and I demand that people give THEM respect.

There are exceptional cases out there; I&' m married to one and I&' ve known others - Your ladies might be one too. (Actually, all of the gentleman I&' m speaking to strike me as exceptionally decent and sensible people and so I think there&' s quite a good chance that they have found some of those precious coveted gems most of us seek or have sought.)
Keep the faith.

-- Posted by zzzZ on 8:43 pm on Aug. 30, 2002

No problem, MrJoe. I know you're shooting from the hip and I appreciate that. I sometimes ask questions to things I know the answer to anyway. Just got to air it and get some other feedback so one can always make the best decisions.

I'm 40 years old, lived in Asia for 7 years, been to LOS 35 times, and been to over 50 countries around the world (many of them as often as LOS). So I ain't no push over and I've got a pretty good pulse on the ways of the world. I've also been through more than my share of TG's in the past, and my current is the only one I've ever been serious about. So take a lot of my questions with a grain of salt too..

Call me pessimistic, but I live by the saying that "most people are idiots unless they prove otherwise" -- I just feel that most people in the world are. I prefer hanging with expats or people who've traveled because they are usually in a category above the average person (from any country, Western, Asian, or whatever).

TG's are women just like any other, but perhaps one of their defining qualities is that they are more emotional or hot blooded than Western woman. I can say from experience that Latin women are very similar in that respect.

So it very much depends on the invididual situation. All of these words of warning and advise are good to keep under your belt, but in the end your personal situation will likely have some unique differences. A smart man will be able to use that knowlege to his advantage and do what is best...

Now aren't we a smart bunch of guys on this thread?? :-)

-- Posted by cmore on 11:40 am on Aug. 31, 2002

Hey guys, looks like brother TPE has just been inducted into the Jedi brotherhood. Not only has he presented us with facts and percentages that prove that there are Thai ladies out there who may be deserving of a chance at something better but he's actually married to a lady who is living proof that refutes the old saying You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl. My list of Thai lady heroes grows longer every day. I know that the list of us brothers who have (apparent) success stories to tell about ourselves and our Thai ladies is rather short but even so the list does exist. So far there are six of us (hopefully seven if things are working out with brother Vinnys friend and his Thai lady) and how many more are out there that we haven't heard about yet because they haven't found this site and joined the brotherhood. There are more of us out there guys, I refuse to believe otherwise, but until they decide to make themselves known it would appear that we are the keepers of the flame. I enjoy telling the brothers about some of my experiences with my lady but upon reflection I do notice that most of them (fine, all of them) have more of a positive side to them. I guess it's only fair to flip the other side of the coin and relate my experience with the Thai jealousy phenomenon. However it's getting late so my tale will have to wait until the morning ( Alright, alright. Do you guys have any idea how silly you look flapping your arms up and down and making those clucking noises :) ). Anyway it's not as bad as you're probably thinking and I was actually in the wrong so this was entirely my fault. Tell you about it in the AM. Peace

-- Posted by thaiprivateeye on 2:36 pm on Aug. 31, 2002

- Cheers C'more, - probably in my case no one is more surprised at the way things worked out than me, being the cynical bastard I am ! - Still it goes to show, and thanks also Mr. Joe, appreciate your kind words, - certainly having the little "luk krung" blows me away, and makes me determined to see she grows up with a Mum and Dad, - not just one or the other, as many BGs have had to do -

-- Posted by cmore on 11:01 pm on Aug. 31, 2002

Hey brother TPE, I hear you. I agree with you about how sad it is to see the children of Thai ladies who work in bars growing up with out fathers. Children are the future and it would be nice to see some of these get a more positive start in life. Your daughter has an awesome responsibility placed on her shoulders because she has now become our poster child for the Thai and foreigner family unit. However when you look at who her parents are I think she is up to the challenge and will do us all proud. Okay guys here it is. Brother Cmores experience with the Thai jealousy phenomenon. Like I said last time the whole thing was my fault and boy did I learn my lesson. The only nice thing about it is that my lady now will never have to worry about being jealous again. One night during my visit my lady and some of my extended family from the bar where I met them all at wanted to take me to one of those western bars that they like. So we all piled into a taxi and off we went. When we got inside the place looked like one of those country and western bars that we have here only minus the mechanical bull. All in all it was very nice. They even had a live band that was very good, at least as far as the music went because damned if I knew what they were singing. However judging from all the applause coming from my table and every other table I have to assume that it was something good :) . When we ordered drinks they ordered a bottle of whiskey and mixers and me being a total wuss ordered a beer. Every one was having a good time, but then I had to go and screw it up by trying a whiskey or two. Bad move on my part. Now I'm not a heavy drinker and I always know when to stop after I feel that I've reached my limit so I never got drunk that night or any night during my visit to LOS. But I definitely was feeling more than a little relaxed by the time the band left the stage and they switched back to the canned music. This seemed to be the time that everyone decided to get up and start dancing around their tables ( A concept that still takes me a little getting use to. I prefer an actual dance floor ). Now not one to be a party pooper I did get up and danced like everyone else ( Calling what I was doing dancing is a definite insult to the late Fred Astaire ) and I danced with each of them. My lady, my #1 sister and my son. Now comes the problem. I also danced with my #2 sister. Now I had been in LOS for 3 days when we went to that bar so I had gotten to know my new family pretty well by then and I had started to notice that my #2 sister seemed to have more than brotherly feelings for me. I just chose to ignore the vibe I was getting from her ( All together now, BIG MISTAKE CMORE! ). So she and I are dancing and my lady is smiling and enjoying herself when all of a sudden my #2 sister takes both my hands in hers, turns around, wraps my arms around her chest and grinds her backside into me so hard that at that moment I seriously wished I was wearing a condom, and here's the bad part, I didn't even come close to trying to stop her. So we're dancing ( Okay, even I know better then to call that dancing. I quit smoking almost 3 years ago but after we sat down I was seriously craving one let me tell you ) and I suddenly come to my senses and take a look around and notice that my other sister and my son aren't smiling anymore. That right there let me know that it was time to end this particular two step but when I looked over at my lady I saw something that can only be described as a life changing experience. Now you're probably thinking that the look I got from her would have caused me to immediately start pulling the daggers out of my back. Oh no guys, this was far worse. The look I got was not one of anger, it was one of extreme hurt. Trust me, there is absolutely no mistaking the meaning of that particular look. I only saw it for about 3 seconds but that was enough to burn all traces of alcohol completely out of my system and if you've ever seen pictures of Michael Jackson then you'll be able to understand how a black mans skin can suddenly turn white. It took me 2 hours to locate the spot where my heart landed when it jumped out of my chest. I immediately stopped dancing, sat down behind my lady, put my arms around her and said I'm sorry, but she didn't say a word. The music was still playing and people were still dancing but the silence was so intense that you could have heard a feather drop on the floor. Needless to say that she eventually forgave me and things have been good between us ever since, but man I never want to see a look like that again in my life. That look she gave me actually made me impotent for the rest of the night. NOW THAT'S POWER FOR YOU! Anyway I learned my lesson so from now on the only sexy dancing I'll be doing will be with my lady and no one else ( The rest will just have to settle for the regular stepping on their toes kind :) ). The look of that much pain on someone I love's face is not something I care to ever see again in my lifetime. Peace

-- Posted by zzzZ on 9:29 pm on Sep. 7, 2002

wow, this thread is getting very dead. where has all the love gone??? ;-)

cmore: i'm heading to LOS on monday night. can't wait. will be posting lot's stories of love and mad adventures when i get back. would be cool if some of us could meet up..

things are going well at present with my TG and she's been handling the long distance relationship like a star. not a single warning sign yet...

-- Posted by cmore on 10:16 pm on Sep. 7, 2002

Hey brother Z, you're right it has been slow here lately. However never fear. The love will always be there. I'm only 2 weeks away from my return visit as well and I to am looking forward to it. Things between me and my lady are also going good. Isn't it wonderful when things work out. However as good as things are I never let myself forget to keep an eye out for floating footwear because you never know when that shoe might drop. Hopefully never, but always be prepared. That said enjoy your visit with your lady and don't forget that I'll be arriving in LOS Sunday night Sept. 22 and I'll be staying at Raumchitt Plaza hotel until Thursday morning Sept. 26, then heading to Cha Am. Please get in touch with me at the hotel so that we can arrange to get together with our ladies. There hasn't been any word from brother Vinny for a while but I hope he is still planning on being there that week and can join us. Wouldn't it be fun to try and play match maker and fix him up one of our ladies friends :). Brother Balls B has been a little quiet for the last week or so. I guess his lady is keeping him pretty busy with chores like feeding the pigs and chickens and driving the tractor :wink:. Don't you just feel so sorry for him :). That just leaves brother Mr. Joe. If you're out there Mr. J you know where I'll be so let us know about you and Mrs. J. Let's make this happen brother Z. My lady wants to go to some restaurant that she heard about but has never been to before. If you have any suggestions let me know. She also has been hinting about some big surprise that she will have for me when she picks me up at the airport, but refuses to say what it is. Why does my life flash before my eyes every time I think about what it might be? Oh well I'll know soon huh? Have fun brother Z and hope we'll have the chance to meet in a couple weeks. Peace

-- Posted by whitespider on 12:52 am on Sep. 8, 2002

Hey, nothing wrong with falling in love. I do it about 20 times every visit :biggrin: and most of them I don't even get to talk to let alone....................

-- Posted by vinny on 6:14 pm on Sep. 19, 2002

Dear Brothers, (be they friend or foe),

Just to let you all know tha my friend is back in the UK and is aware of this thread now. However, he has little interest in reading it at the moment. He coped well with the fact I had done it but as he is as unsure of the internet as I am unsure of his emotions - he has deemed not to read it fully at this point. I guess that was expected for various reasons.

However, he is still, heavily involved with this girl, who I must admit seems genuine from the stories he tells me, so who knows, maybe it will work between them. He has gone a stage further with buying a house in LOS (in her name), and that I still find scary, but as he is being phylosophical about the result than I guess he has looked at it from many angles. Seems to me he believes that as long as he is good to her all will be well, and if not then I suppose he is prepared to lose his investment. I admire him for this for two reasons: He can't afford to lose the investment (but is prepared to) and he has the faith and trust in the girl to take the risk; to me both takes courage.

I will keep the forum informed as times move on.

Change of subject:

It's been a week or two since I had a chance to get on here. Anyway, just want you all to know that I am being admitted to hospital today for surgery on my neck (again) due to damaged discs. I hasten to add that this damage has not been caused by any of my sexual hobbies. Anyway, the surgery as hinted above is the 2nd attempt to rectify the problem and means I will be in hospital 4 to 5 days then will be wearing the most hideous of 'collars' for about 3 months. Hopefully, though this attempt will be the 'full fix' and hopefully I will be out to LOS by mid-December again.

Wish me well brothers and may you all have the fun you like best during my absense, whatever that may be.

To all those I hoped to meet up with this month; what can I say, just look after each other and have fun for me as well as you. Hope now to see some of you in December.

-- Posted by cmore on 11:55 am on Sep. 20, 2002

Hey brother Vinny, sorry to hear about the problems with your neck. My thoughts are with you as well as my hopes for a speedy recovery. I'm also sorry that I won't get the chance to meet you next week but I will have a Singha in your honor ( Or 2, or 3, or... :) ). You've done as much as you can for your friend so be at peace. He now knows where to look if he needs to count on the brothers for help with questions or advice. Don't worry, we've got your back. Take care of yourself. Peace

-- Posted by thaiprivateeye on 12:14 pm on Sep. 20, 2002

likewise - hope you soon are 100 %, you certainly need the neck in good order when in bangkok, seems like every few yards you need to turn quick to check out another TG ! - also I worry for your Pal ... it is indeed scary, however, as I've said before, roughly 1 girl in every 5 or 6 surprises me by being genuine, not the best of odds, but still some hope ! choke dee -

-- Posted by cmore on 9:55 am on Sep. 21, 2002

Truer words were never spoke brother TPE. Look me up next week. First rounds on me. Peace

-- Posted by CalEden on 3:05 pm on Sep. 21, 2002

Brothers looking for your advice:
I think this is correct area for this topic. Met nonworking (Non professional) TG last Thai trip. In plannig next trip, found out she is interested in me & wants to take me around. I accepted. She is in early 20's, solid 8, and I'm attracted to her. Didn't try before because with another TG. She will be coming from the country to spend whole trip with me. Even talk of me taking her home if things work out in future. This is going to crimp the MP LT action. What can I expect from her? This seems kind of an opprtunity for her to get ahead and perhaps leave Thailand. From previous posts, will have work at it couple weeks maybe score just before I leave. Now don't get me wrong I could fall in love with her. What am I getting into? Could I have angry TG after me if I back out? I don't know how experienced sexually she is? Any insites culturely? I'm a fareng. Thanks for Help Brothers

-- Posted by MrJoe on 4:26 pm on Sep. 21, 2002

Cal,

You have opened up the proverbial can of warms. You will probably get some good advice, some of it may be mine.

More later.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 4:27 pm on Sep. 21, 2002

BTW are we to take it that you are Steinbeck fan?

-- Posted by CalEden on 10:05 pm on Sep. 21, 2002

Mr.Joe:
I think your asking me the question (BTW)? Yes and No, read Stienbeck alot. Didn't pick Cal for that reason. Had problems registering. So "Cal" became "CalEden", not because of Eden MP. Eden was then added because I needed to Modify the handle. Eden was picked because of syonbolism (Steinbeck).

-- Posted by MrJoe on 12:42 am on Sep. 22, 2002

CalEden,

I thought it was a combination of the title "East of Eden" and the name of a central character from that book, Cal.

-- Posted by CalEden on 1:59 am on Sep. 22, 2002

The intention originally wasn't there. I wanted to use plain "Cal" but, couldn't. So added Eden for the symbolism. Yes, you are right, it is the intent now. By the way my favorite is "Pastures Of Heaven" good read.

-- Posted by vinny on 5:44 pm on Sep. 25, 2002

Hi Brothers,

Surgery done I am now out of hospital and the op was successful (according to my surgeon). I now have about 6 weeks repair time by which I should know myself if the op has done the trick. I will be out to LOS again hopefully within 2 months from now. How fit I will be is still to be seen of course but I am hopeful that my balance, coordination and dexterity will be back as much as possible to normal and all the pain and pins and needles and other effects of trapped nerves have disappeared. Anyway, however I arrive there I will enjoy - and hope to meet some of you at last.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 6:03 pm on Sep. 25, 2002

Vin,

Glad to hear it went well. I'm thinking positive thoughts for you. A speedy and complete recovery to you sir!

-- Posted by vinny on 6:20 pm on Sep. 25, 2002

Thank you Mr Joe, I am glad to be back and look forward to continued communication thro this great LOS forum.

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 10:17 am on Sep. 26, 2002

Back from 3 weeks in LOS with my TG. And have a few observations for this thread. I'm still a bit jet lagged, so I'll make a few posts over the course of the next day or so.

First: if you're serious about a TG you've met, I'd recommend reading the book, "In the bedroom, Out of Trouble," by Bud Knackstedt, ISBN 0 9644569 3 1. I picked up a copy at the Isares book store in the BKK airport on my last day. Wish I'd found it on my first day. Lots of good stuff, lots of funny stuff, and a good primer for the pitfalls of love in LOS.

Second: Things still on track with my TG, perhaps even more than before. Had some ups and downs, met the family, and made a side trip to Vientiane. All of which gave me pause for reflection. So I'll drop some of these into some posts to follow in this thread.

Third: Thanks for all the input in this thread, was of value when I hit the ground in LOS. Special thanks to MrJoe, whom I met while there.

-Balls

-- Posted by MrJoe on 11:10 am on Sep. 26, 2002

Balls!

Glad you guys made it back safely. My wife was on my case last night because I hadn't emailed you to check up! I'm giving you a chance to relax and reflect; I'll be mailing you soon.

-- Posted by MrJoe on 11:13 am on Sep. 26, 2002

Oh and DON"T REVEAL my secret identity to the brothers! Of course they all know I'm 6'4" and a double for Brad Pitt but don't tell them any more!

-- Posted by zzzZ on 10:56 pm on Sep. 27, 2002

I'm also just back from 9 days in LOS. Lot's to say and will post more when I am a little less jetlagged. Things went real well with my TG during the trip and I had a great time. She dropped a real bombshell on me which I report later though...

Cmore, sorry we couldn't hook up. I was running around most of the time and out of BKK a lot.

-- Posted by nokna on 3:17 am on Sep. 28, 2002

falling in love?.
easy to say don't do it.

i'm the last person to comment on this subject,having spent much money on returning to LOS to see my baby.
she has tore my life apart and things will never be the same for me again.

i miss her so much and want to be with her so much,but it will not happen.

i envy those people who have made a good connection and settled down with a good thai woman.
i wish i was with you.

-- Posted by zzzZ on 4:44 am on Oct. 8, 2002

Ok, this thread is dying a slow death. What happened to all the "love" out there? Last I remember, me, cmore, balls, and others were off to LOS to see their TG's and that was basically the end of this thread!!!

Well, I got back 9 days ago, and guess what??? I'm flying back out again on Thursday!!! Can't wait. Will any of you guys still be there???

I had a great trip a couple of weeks ago. Did some work (the reason for going) and went to Hua Hin on the weekend. Found out my TG was pregnant, which was a bit of a bombshell to say the least.... yes, yes, I am the father (I'll do a test any way). My TG is dead set on having it even though I live 10,000 miles away and only visit once every 6 weeks..... whats a guy like me to do now????

I'm obviously pretty smittin with this TG, and feel she is too. No warning signs whatsever that she has ever been insincere (and God, with 10 years of going to LOS and all that I've read, I've had my back up). Still, I am now facing a LT committment and it is quite serious for only knowing the TG for 4 months...

There are also other "factors" on my side that complicate just marrying the girl or something. She is cool with that too...

So, Cmore, what was the final result of your trip???? Looking forward to seeing this thread pick up again...

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 5:40 am on Oct. 8, 2002

zzzzZ,

Wow, you've bit off a hunk this time, I'd say. Makes my story pale by comparison. Was thinking the same thing about this thread just kinda peterin' out. I've posted some anecdotes from my trip on some of the other threads, maybe oughta do more of that here, for the sake of the bro's. I know cmore is down in the dumps, so not sure if he wants to hear about "love and happiness" at the moment.

But I do have a few tidbits to post, including window shopping for wedding gowns, being treated like a customer, etc., but I'll drop 'em here when I get a bit of time in the next day or so.

Hope your TG is really carrying your baby, but that should be easy to find out, provided you want to plunk down money for RH factor, or DNA screening ;-) Sure puts a spin on things though. Will be VERY interested to hear about the outcome of your next trip. Maybe you can send us some FR's while in-country?

All the best,

- Balls

-- Posted by zzzZ on 6:04 am on Oct. 8, 2002

Sure Balls, will keep you posted for sure. Never a dull moment in LOS, huh?

-- Posted by cmore on 6:54 am on Oct. 8, 2002

Hey guys, glad to hear from you both. I'm doing much better brother Balls and am looking forward to reading your post about Love and Happiness. I could use some of that right about now. Brother Z I guess congratulations are in order. I'll bet you'll make a great dad. I know things must be moving forward pretty fast for you but as long as you're happy and there is still no sign of that other shoe dropping yet then do what makes you happy. I guess you missed my thread in the field reports section called Return of the Cmore. It explains everything. I'm getting there guys, don't worry. Life goes on. Anyway I'm very happy that things are working out for you both. I'll keep good thoughts for you and your ladies. Peace

-- Posted by Oaktoad on 7:20 am on Oct. 8, 2002

"Having my baby" oldest way in the world to hook a guy in ...

Some Brit said years ago "a man marrying a woman with child might as well sh_t in his hat and wear it" ..

That is why I had a vasectomy a long time ago.. some of you guys should think about it ..

Choices are once she is pregnant, abort or keep. If you keep then if you are a MAN then you will support that kid until about age 18 .. of course when it is a TG and her baby that means you get to support her family as well ...

do a pregnancy check to make sure it is yours .. too many TG's have their T bf on the side to take a chance .. even a bloodtest might be enough??

Sorry to sound so cynical, but you guys who are not more careful .. what are you thinking .. the world needs another mouth to feed?? there is some overwhelming need for you to reproduce???

All that said, mixing in some Farang blood out to strenghten the gene pool in Thailand ;-)

-- Posted by zzzZ on 7:28 am on Oct. 8, 2002

Yo Oaktoad, I agree with most of what you are saying, man. I had serious thoughts about her trying to "hook" me, just don't know. But what security does she get having a baby with a guy that is 10,000 miles away? For all she knows I could piss off and she's stuck holding the bag for many years to come. But, conspiracy theories are around for a reason...

Will certainly do a test. Keep in mind that my TG has NO family whatsoever, so no one to support apart from her. She's BKK born and raised, and university graduated. Perhaps it is a way of being secure and not alone, or something, who knows..

We actually were careful apart from 2 mistakes out of probably 100 times. And yeah, I know... it only takes once..

Going back to have a serious heart to heart to make sure the right thing is done, whatever that may be.

And I think a vasectomy is a pretty damn good idea... why didn't I think of that before! :-)

Cmore, I'll go catch up on your thread. Doesn't sound good though.. and I'm sorry to hear it already...

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 8:09 am on Oct. 8, 2002

Bro's

Vasectomies are easy and cheap. Had mine 10 years ago, and still feelin' spiffy!

I think Oaktoad's apprehension is not cynicism, especially given the way things operate in LOS. Here's a related story, which underscores his point:

I chatted with a waitress friend over at a beer bar near Nana Hotel. She's a real sweetheart, college educated, late 20's. Then she told me that some Danish dude asked her if she wanted to have his baby, this after she'd only met the guy once. She was considering it, as this seemed to be a great way out. What she hadn't considered was why would this dude ever take possession, let alone support the little tyke, given their brief encounter. I pointed this out to her, and suggested that the only reasonable way for this to work was for him to marry her first, and then think about kids later. This seemed like a novel idea, and given her education, it surprised me. When I really pressed her, I got the impression that she was willing to suspend her disbelief in the hopes of a long shot.

So my conclusion was: Thai girls are wired for motherhood and nurturing in the same way that most of the other (very sweet) ladies I've known in Asia. I also think that this lady equate kids with money, love, marriage, happily-ever-after, etc. And in LOS, where marrying a farang can mean all of that, if only for a short while, there was a fatalistic sense in this lady's mind that the request to "have my baby" meant all that. Frankly, I think the guy was bullsh_tting her just to have sex sans condoms -- it just didn't make sense, given the way Westerners think. But again, the key here is how she perceived it.

I know of one other Thai lady who recently had an abortion, so they do opt for that too. So I'd tread carefully Brother zzzzZ, this route is fraught with "lions, and tiger, and bears, oh my!"

-- Balls

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 8:22 am on Oct. 8, 2002

Brother zzzzZ,

Just had another very cynical thought, my apologies in advance (Why do I have such jai dam? Buddha is clearly frowning on me at this moment.): if tests prove that you aren't dad, then you'll know more than you need to about the details of your relationship. I have a reason for saying this, but I'll hold that for a follow-up post later in this thread ...

- Balls

-- Posted by zzzZ on 8:52 am on Oct. 8, 2002

thanks Balls...
i have to say, quite honestly, i would be shocked if i wasn't the father. i am really, really sure in this case. there is no way she has been butterflying since i met her.. but in Thailand things aren't always what they seem.. tests will be done....

-- Posted by cmore on 9:39 am on Oct. 8, 2002

Hey brother Z, you've given your lady a very special gift. One that she's probably never received before she met you. That gift is trust and so far it appears that she hasn't misused that gift. Let's hope it remains that way, but you won't know for sure until you get the results back from the test. Until then, as far as I can see, she is still deserving of that precious gift and I hope you'll still present it to her every day. Try not to stress until you know for sure that your gift has been sitting in the back of the closet unopened. Peace

-- Posted by vinny on 11:31 pm on Oct. 17, 2002

Hello Brothers,

At last, I have my 'new' passport, a sore neck still (after my op), but what the hell! I need some R and R and so will be back out to LOS next Wednesday 23rd for 3 weeks. Is anyone from this thread (and others of course) up for a meet sometime betwen say 24-29 Oct, when I will then probably head out of BKK to a quieter area for a few days or so.

-- Posted by cmore on 12:04 pm on Oct. 18, 2002

Hey brother Vinny, it's good to hear that things have worked out for you and glad to hear that you're on the mend. We've been worried about you. If you're going to be there for 3 weeks then keep an eye on the Round Table thread because the Nov. RT will probably be scheduled during your time frame and the chance to meet some of the brothers and the Jedi Master himself is not something you want to miss out on. Good to hear that you're okay brother. Try not to exert yourself too much while you're there. Give the neck time to heal ( Oh yeah, like I really see you taking that advice :) ). Have fun Vinny. Peace

-- Posted by vinny on 7:07 pm on Oct. 19, 2002

Thanks CMORE,
Sure I will keep my eyes open on the RT Thread - and I just hope the next meet coincides with when I will be in the BKK area.

Look fwd to meeting you all.

-- Posted by zzzZ on 5:13 am on Oct. 20, 2002

Just back an hour ago from another trip to LOS... was a great week... will fill ya in later once I decompress.

Probably back again in 3 weeks if anyone wants to meet up..

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 11:57 am on Nov. 23, 2002

cmore, et al,

decided to breathe a tad bit o' life back into this thread. I'll be heading back to LOS in December and will be there much of the month. Reason is: things still moving forward in a positive way with my TGF. Funny thing, when I told her I finally got confirmed tickets, there was a dead silence on the other end of the phone. Then I realized she was beaming from ear to ear and kind of choked up. When I asked her if she was still on the other end of the phone, she answered in a whispering "ka." Really got to me.

So I guess occasionally one does find the seeds of hope for longer term relationships with these ladies. She is continuing, as best she can, to finish up her schooling -- still another year to go, but that will close the educational gap between us considerably. There will always be a cultural and experiencial gap, but that gives us something new everyday to discover and work with.

I'll toss an anecdote onto this thread when I return in late December, to let the bro's know if I've crashed and burned, or am still "falling in love."

Cheers!

- Balls (just 10 more days)

-- Posted by cmore on 12:25 pm on Nov. 23, 2002

Hey brother Balls, you don't know how happy I am to hear that things are going so well for you and Ms. Balls. Definitely sounds like you may just have a keeper on your hands. Keep the love going bro. BTW, are you going to be there for Christmas and if so are you getting her present here or waiting until you get there? Just curious. I'm glad you activated this thread again because I read some of the old post and I remember that the last time we talked to brother Z on this thread he was about to find out whether he is going to be a father or not. Brother Z, I know it's probably not our business but I was just wondering how the test came out. Are congratulations in order. Feel free to tell me to mind my business if you want. Peace and have a safe trip brother Balls.

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 12:41 pm on Nov. 23, 2002

cmore,

Will be back just before Xmas (maybe think about nokna while I'm eating my egg salad sandwich -- I've got similar job constraints), but will get her something when I am there. I also noted that zzzZ had left us hanging, but wasn't sure he if wanted to share the outcome with us. Let's hope it was all good, however it turned out.

- Balls

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 8:31 am on Dec. 20, 2002

Back from BKK today to a cold, rainy, windy California day. Have a few observations from my last 3 weeks in BKK with my TGF. But haven't slept in 30-odd hours, so I'll post 'em tomorrow after I crash.

BTW, cmore, finally tried the fried silkworms. And they don't taste like chicken ;-)

- Balls

-- Posted by Hermanolobo on 11:07 pm on Dec. 20, 2002

Wow what an amazing thread !
I've read half of it and now I shall have to go to the
pub !
It is easy to fall in love in LOS. Especially when one does not know the real score. The Thai boyfriend/husband. The e-mails to a dozen countries asking for money. There are two books that bring everything for me into sharp focus.(1) Stephen Leather's excellent 'Private Dancer' (2) Money No.1 'Hello there sexy man' by Neil Hutchison.
With all the knowledge of this profound and interesting thread and those two books would I fall in love again ?????
Yes most definitely...even with another bar-girl. I married the first one=complete disaster. Like many!
They are from a different culture, they do not have the same values,perceptions or education.
Would I fall in love again????
Yes because I get lonely and I am a human not a machine!

-- Posted by cmore on 10:16 am on Dec. 21, 2002

Hey brother Balls, welcome back. Looking forward to reading your latest adventures. BTW- About the silk worms. Did you seriously take advice from a guy who has 98 other voices in his head :biggrin: Hey brother Herm, well said and good for you. I to am a firm believer in getting back on that horse. Of course in my case the poor horse keeps coming up lame so I keep having to shoot him ;). Never give up on love bro and it won't give up on you. Peace

-- Posted by The Machine on 1:35 pm on Dec. 21, 2002

Everything seems to have been said that could be said but i will add my two cents anyway.
I gather you friend is old enough to know his own mind regardless of the obvious pitfalls that have been well documented here in this thread.
He will probably go ahead regardless of any advice that he may be given , and after all he is big enough and old enough to make his own decisions for himself.
Hopefully he will be one of the lucky ones but to be lucky will ironically require a lot of hard work.He will have to adapt and adopt many Thai cultural patterns.This may not be easy but will definitely be necessary to have a successful relationship but even then it will also require a lot of understanding as you are dealing with a working girl. A working girl has extra baggage with which you must deal with and this baggage will reveal itself overtime and may not be easy to manage.Communication problems may well be insurmountable.
I would suggest as others have that he rent a house for 6 months to a year and tell his girlfriend that his cash is tied up for the moment and that when his cash is freed i.e. in a year that he will go ahead and build her the dream house.In the interim year he should get a good idea of whether the relationship will last and he will not have wasted too much money.
On the topic of money
the problem with the money is that it is quite often used by the men as the bargaining chip.They are using their financial status as the hook to get the girl.If he is one of these guys i am afraid that the relationship is most likely doomed from the start .IN my experience these guys brag about their financial status and make promises about buying this and that.
One needs to remember that worthwhile relationships are not build on sex and money alone they require from both parties a longterm committment and the ability to relate on an emotional level.
I have to agree with many others that i fear the odds are stacked way too much against this guy.I for one could not make the sacrifices and go thru the difficult times that are required to make this sort of relationship work.
It is just too damn difficult

-- Posted by zzzZ on 7:40 am on Dec. 23, 2002

Cmore, Balls, et al. Sorry, didn't realize I left you guys hanging! I thought this thread was dead but just saw that you guys had pumped some life back into it!

There's been a lot going on with my situation. I had kinda been holding off since I wanted to see how things finally panned out. But here's the deal:

My gf as you know is pregnant, now about 4 1/2 months. In October we found out that there was a problem with the baby and the doctors advised that she should get an abortion. My gf had a big problem with this as being a good buddist she didn't think it was the right thing to do. Also, and probably more realistically, for her having a baby is akin to having something to keep her company like a pet dog. She has no family whatsoever and lives alone in her apartment in BKK. Since I'm only there one week out of every six usually, she get's very bored sometimes. But shes been really good and doesn't go out to discos or do anything that would give a bf call for concern. Phew, what a relief considering all the other horror stories in farang/TG relationships...

She went in for the abortion (cost 13,500 baht) and left the clinic 8 hours later. 2 days later she realizes that something isn't right so she went back to see the doctor. It turns out that the head of the clinic decided that the baby could survive so they did a perceedure on her to "clean her womb" (whatever the hell that really means I'll never know) and didn't abort the baby. I immediately sent her to the doctor at Bumrungrad that we had originally seen together to find out what was really going on... frankly, if this had happened in the US a malpractice suit would have been immediately filed by me. I was blown away that they didn't even tell her that they didn't abort the baby!!!!

The doctor at Bumrungrad did an ultrasound and said maybe things were ok but told here to come back 2 times over a period of a month so he would know for sure. My gf continued to get bigger and started to feel that everyting was AOK. However, on the third ultrasound, the doctor at Bumrungrad confirmed that it was a no-go and that the baby wasn't growing and would not survive. Worse, if she didn't abort it could be big trouble for her.

Now my gf, 4 1/2 pregnant needs to go in for a more serious abortion that involves a hospital stay for at least one night and cost of around 20,000 baht. I haven't been able to make it back to BKK yet, so she's stressing out bigtime not wanting to go through this alone. I certainly don't want her to do this either so am doing everything I can to try to get over there before the end of the year to take care of the situation and my gf while the proceedure happens....

So as you can see I've had a lot of rollercoaster days since my last post on the subject. My gf has been very emotional about the situation, but our relationship has been real tight. She keeps telling me that she doesn't care about my money and is so sorry that I have to have this problem with her. She also tells me that she'll wait for me as long as it takes even if it is 1 year, 10 years or 100 years. The skeptics will chime in that of course that is all a load of crap. I honestly don't know either, but for now we get on real well and have a very high degree of communication. I just need to try to make my trips to LOS more frequent and I think things will be ok...

So, the story isn't over yet, but that is the latest!!!

Over to you, guys...

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 8:44 am on Dec. 23, 2002

zzzZ

Wow, a tough situation. I've been through the abortion ringer many years ago in the States, nothing like you are describing, and it still sucked. So I can only imagine what your TGF is feeling. Thank goodness you took her to a good hospital before things got really bad. I'm glad you are both hanging together, really hard to do with this kind of thing. Hopefully when this is all over, you will still have somewhere to take your relationship. Best of luck with this, really, and let us know how it turns out.

As for me, I'm kinda of gathering my thoughts before I post 'em here. Some funny, some sad, but all about my saga as I continue "Falling in Love" with a BG. I'll try to post a few in the next day or so.

- Balls

-- Posted by mm3 on 8:59 am on Dec. 23, 2002

zzzZ:

Tough situation. I hope everything works out fine in the end for you and your TGF.

IMHO: Perhaps all the brothers with serious TGFs should introduce their TGFs to each other so they can have a support group of TGs to hang out with. This may reduce the boredom factor and lessen the chances of straying. Of course if things don't work out between the brother and his TGF, there may be a TG lynch mob after the brother. :o

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 9:25 am on Dec. 23, 2002

zzzZ,
One of the worst things that can happen to a women is to not be able to carry a baby to full term. She will be hurting for along time and you need to talk and talk alot more about what happened. Men can put this aside and move on, where a women will allow this to build up within her. Since she has only you. YOU must make yourself available for her to talk to you about this. She will want to talk about this for along time. Don't shut her down. Good luck.

BiGDUSA

-- Posted by cmore on 10:20 am on Dec. 23, 2002

Hey brother Z, words fail me ( And for that to happen to me is a miracle :) ). I'm so sorry that a good couple like you and Ms. Z have to go through this. After all the two of you have been through all these months and you still managed to stay together, you both deserve much better. I can't even begin to know what you're both going through right now. My thoughts and good wishes are with you both and I know that the deep love that you share together will see you through this. Be strong bro and take care of our Ms. Z. She's more then proven that she's one of the rare ones. Peace

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 10:40 am on Dec. 23, 2002

BigDUSA,

You are painfully right about your advice. When I went through this years ago, I tried to talk with my then-GF about it, but she completely shut down. It was the death of the relationship, not a pleasant part of my history. So zzzZ, heed BigDUSA's sage words.

- Balls

-- Posted by zzzZ on 7:14 pm on Dec. 23, 2002

Yes, I definitely hear you guys... and my increased phone bills are a testiment to the wisdom of your words ;-)

She's emotional about it for sure but I think we'll be ok.

-- Posted by cmore on 10:57 am on Jan. 12, 2003

Hey brother Balls you're killing me here. I've been waiting weeks for those FR's you've been teasing us about posting and still no sign yet. I'm too old for this kind of stress :). Seriously I hope you're doing okay. You kind of hinted that not everything in your FR's were going to be of a happy nature and I was just thinking about you. You know we're here for you if you need us.

BTW- Has anyone heard from brother Z lately? Is he there in LOS yet and has he and Ms. Z taken care of that final step yet? Same goes for you also Z. We're here if you need us and our thoughts are always with you both. Peace

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 12:13 pm on Jan. 12, 2003

cmore,

Sorry, I need to get on the stick and start posting. Don't want to lose face here by saying one thing and then not producing ;) Besides, we have too much stress in our lives as it is without me adding more stress to those on the forum, ha!

Seriously, though, I am going to take a quick gander at the many pages of this thread to be sure I don't repeat myself too much, and then I'll launch. Think I'll recap from the beginning, sorta a "Year of Living Dangerously" thing, as it will be a year next month since I met her. I want to put some of my current comments into historical context. So maybe a quick review and then some things from the September and December trips.

I promise to get on this in the next 3 days.

Best to you Brother C. And you're right, hope that Bro' Z and his lady are doing okay.

- Balls

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 2:00 pm on Feb. 11, 2003

Well,

Here's an anecdote in preparation for some upcoming (promised) contributions to this thread:

I call my TGF late last night, conversation goes on for awhile, and eventually comes around to:

Balls: "I saw on American TV last week about how America people now bpoombpooie [fat] mahk, mahk! Everyone eat too much McDonald's, KFC, Burger King! At least Thai people not like that yet!"

TGF: "I not get bpoombpooie because mama, papa of papa tall, skinny."

Balls: "You think so?"

TGF: "Yeeeesss [with a rising tone]."

TGF: "Teelakja?"

Balls: "Yes?"

TGF: "If you bpoombpooie when you old, I stiiiiiill love you!" [always like the way she drags the vowels]

Balls: [in my best pahk whan voice] "Teelak, if you bpoombpooie when you get older ..."

TGF: "ja???" [she's waiting for the reciprical compliment]

Balls: "then I have to get mia noy!"

TGF: $#^%@&!($&^#^@%!$#^$*#*)%)$*#* [Isaan invectives delivered very fast]

Balls: [laughing hysterically] "pootlen, pootlen [joking]!"

TGF: [invectives stop suddenly] "oye, babababoe!"

We both had a good laugh after that -- I'd gotten her goat, hook, line, and sinker.

Gotta love these ladies ;-)

- Balls

-- Posted by cmore on 6:56 am on Feb. 13, 2003

DAMN! brother Balls, you got hit with the Issarn invectives? You could lose an eye that way. Hope you remembered to duck :biggrin:. Peace

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 3:17 pm on Feb. 14, 2003

Keep on eye on this thread. Specifically, February 20th.

( cmore, your long and patient wait will be over ... )

- Balls

-- Posted by bandit on 10:24 pm on Feb. 14, 2003

Bros,

Talk about an intense topic, I have just printed it out not knowing that it was so long. sh_t...! It was on 73 pages (...) and for once I will not be bored on the way home from my work...

:biggrin:

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 3:42 pm on Feb. 21, 2003

Well, itís February 20th in the U.S.A. and I promised the broís that Iíd be shaking the leaves of this thread starting today. Why today, you ask? Read on dear members Ö
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Dear diary:

February 20th, 2002. Itís midday, and after 19 hours in transit, Iíve just stepped off the plane with a good friend of mine at Don Muang International airport.

Thailand at last! And what a journey it was getting here! Iíd read Hello My Big, Big Honey, and something in the stories of those bar girls had touched a nerve deep down ñ wasnít sure what exactly, but I had a strange feeling about this. Iíd tried to teach myself a few snippets of the Thai language, had read a bit about the people, the land, the culture. I wasnít sure what to expect, and that uncertainty was what drew me, inexorably sucking me down into a fate I couldnít initially understand or resist, and playing me a hand whose cards, a year later, Iím not certain I truly understand.

But why was I here, this day, this hour? It had been a rough year leading up to this stroll through South East Asia. My personal life was in disarray. My live-in Korean girlfriend, a partner of 10 years, told me in January that she wanted to move out. It was the only thing to do. We'd been in a relationship of attrition for the last couple of years. Our sex life and shared love, originally mind blowing, had simply faded away along with our ability to communicate about even the basic things. We had become matter and anti-matter.

Iíd spent the better part of the twilight of that relationship short-timing my way through too many Chinese and Vietnamese ladies, losing myself for those brief hours and pretending that they were snippets of happiness. It only delayed the inevitable, and when that day came in January of 2002, I said, ìO.K., youíre right, letís end it.î The month of January was an emotional rollercoaster. Tears, sadness. I needed some air. The Siren call of Thailand was irresistible.

So my buddy and I stroll down the long airport corridor leading to the Thai immigration lines. Iím smiling, I really canít believe Iím here, but my heart aches thinking about the person Iíd left behind in California. With a gruff smile, the immigration official stamps my passport and we head out to the taxi stand. My eyes start to wander. I wasnít prepared for the subtle beauty of the woman around me. Iíd had my share of Asian ladies, but this was new. And they were polite, smiling, and warm in a way I hadnít seen before.

We grab a cab, and off we go to the Amari Watergate, to meet another partner in crime, who had arrived earlier from South Africa. He was holed up there, and had gotten us some rooms. The cabby didnít know where it was, so we end up at the wrong Amari. The concierge straightens him out, and we soon find ourselves at the Watergate. In we trod, bags in hand. To some of the sweetest and prettiest ladies Iíd ever seen. With a smile, they check us in. We whisk up the elevator, grab some showers, and head out to the pool, where the third musketeer is waiting. Drinks in hand, he welcomes us to the beautiful and strange city of Bangkok.

It had been cold in California, but itís warm and inviting here, so, poolside, beers in hand, we hatch our plans for that fateful evening of February 20th. I donít know it, but my year of living dangerously has begun Ö

-- Posted by zzzZ on 7:54 am on Mar. 6, 2003

Cmore and Balls -- sorry I dropped the ball and haven't posted here in so long.. didn't know the thread was still active!!!! Anyway, things have been smooth riding (apart from a miscarriage) and that is probably why I haven't posted here!

Well, I've been to LOS just about every month except for December. My gf had a miscarriage, and the January trip was a bit tough as a result. But she's a trooper, and everything ended up just fine.

Just got back last week from a great 2 week trip. In between work we got to go to Ko Chang and Cha Am, which was pretty nice. The two of us are doing real well, and no problems whatsoever to report apart from various issues of either guys hitting on her or grabbing her while we're out, or the opposite -- girls coming up to her and telling her that I've been looking at them all night... a ploy to break us up or something.. you ever experience that crap??? I should start a thread about that one actually!

Heading back again the first week of April and can't wait!!!

-- Posted by cmore on 11:51 am on Mar. 6, 2003

Hey brother Z, it's nice to finally hear from you, I was a little worried that something might have happened and I guess it did. I'm so sorry for yours and Ms. Z's loss. I know how much you both were looking forward to this. I can't even begin to imagine how you both are feeling. My thoughts are with you both, but it sounds like you both are holding up well and are in good spirits so I'll try to keep the worrying down to a whisper :). If you need us you know where to find us. Take care and give my hero a big hug from me when you return next month. Peace be with you both brother.

-- Posted by B Boy on 8:05 pm on Mar. 14, 2003

Went to CM last month and then to BKK. Read the posts, did my research, hoped to meet up with a few of the people who post on this board. What happened? I fell for a go go dancer.

First night in Chiang Mai bar fined a girl and took her for LT. Sex was ordinary, no kissing and she almost went into a trance when making love. Was not going to bother again but something seemed to click during the day and I felt like a challenge. Her English was poor and my Thai no better.

To cut a long story short we argued many times and made up many times. We were kissing and sex was much better. I had promised that I would take her to Bangkok. She did not believe me. In the end I bought her a ticket, paid her bar fine and told her she was now free to do whatever she wanted.

She came with me but as my girlfriend. We visited friends and relatives of her's. We argued I visited Eden as a result.....good as those girls were, there was something missing. My TGF was now kissing and we were having the best sex of my life. She was now totally responsive. Money was never asked for even after she was walking out after an arguement. We were laughing, joking all through dictionaries, phrase books and sign language.

The problem is that I have lost my heart to this girl. She is from Issan. No father but close to mother. I am originally from the East so this does not cause me a problem. I was considering moving to CM before this trip.

I am thinking of visiting in August so I can see the country out of season. My brain tells me one thing my heart another. She is 23 and I am 44. She has only been doing this for 6 months. I have been back less than a week and we have spoken everyday. I have used a thai translation site for faxes and letters.

I have a long term relationship with someone here but at this moment I am being torn apart. I know she has to work. I know this will involve her going with other men. I have not and have no intention of sponsoring her and she has not asked me to. Is a relationship with a bar girl doomed to failure?

Some advice please. Call it a day. Give it a try. Have a heart transplant. What should I do!!

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 8:35 pm on Mar. 14, 2003

B Boy,

If your thinking l/t with the Thai BG you need to tell the other women what's going on and end the relationship. You need to clear the air with her. That's if you want to get serious with the BG. No matter which way you turn you have a hard road ahead of you. Can you move to Thailand as your chances of sucess go way up if you can.

-- Posted by B Boy on 10:44 pm on Mar. 14, 2003

BigDUSA, yes I can make amove to Thailand in the next 12 to 18 months. Yes I will tell the person I am with but not now. My headis totally mixed up and I need time to think.

What I need to know is whether I am an idiot for even thinking about a future wit a BG. I also think I need another visit before making any decisions.

Any advice from brothers out there who have made a success or a mistake with a BG.

-- Posted by invaderzim on 12:00 am on Mar. 15, 2003

B boy sounds like you guys argue alot it prolly wouldnt be worth it shes got a temper in LOS you shouldnt settle for anything less than exactly what your looking for when it comes to a relationship

-- Posted by haam sup on 1:18 am on Mar. 15, 2003

B Boy,

There are many guys who have been through what you are experiencing. And there is no single answer, because the answer is INSIDE you.

Just realize that you are dealing with your OWN issues here. And even though you 'clicked' with her, you don't know her AT ALL. I hate to say it, but she could be replaced by any one of a thousand different girls who have that little piece of YOUR puzzle.

What's missing in your life? Be honest with yourself. Are you willing to completely change your world, on the chance that this possessor of your missing pieces is also a genuinely honest and loving woman? DO you understand her culture? You had better, because I guarantee she won't understand, much less embrace yours. Her bond with her mother will ALWAYS be stronger than her bond with you. Can you handle that?

Don't misunderstand me: I really believe it's possible to find the right girl in LOS, and make it work. But it will entail a LOT of learning on your part, and a lot of willingness to adapt, and probably abandon much of your former life. Are you ready?

And I know the sex is good...but I think you'll find that it varies from woman-to-woman as much as it does here in the West. The difference is that you have much more access in Thailand. What makes Thai women so unique is that many DO NOT put up the 'hooker wall' so common elsewhere. They will accept your money, but if they like you, it will seem like genuine affection. And it usually is - but it's NOT love. A powerful drug to a Western man of our age.

In the end, this is really about YOU, not her. You should get to know yourself a lot better, and decide if Thailand is for you. If so, make that your priority, and keep an open mind about your love life. That way, when the right one comes along (if not already), you will be ready for the adventure.

best wishes,
haam sup

-- Posted by invaderzim on 1:34 am on Mar. 15, 2003

hey I was just wondering has anyone ever married a TG.. brought herback to thier own country and managed to be able to continue with occasional trips to LOS for fun not that you dont love the girl but LOS is hard to give up..

-- Posted by yogibear on 4:53 am on Mar. 15, 2003

haam sup,

A very well thought out inteligent response. Sounds as though you may have experienced the same enigma as B Boy?

-- Posted by haam sup on 6:53 am on Mar. 15, 2003

Quote: from yogibear on 5:53 am on Mar. 15, 2003

Sounds as though you may have experienced the same enigma as B Boy?

Yeah, but it was wrapped in a conundrum, so I was safe...

:)

haam sup

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 9:56 am on Mar. 15, 2003

invaderzim,

When on Koh Chang in December with my TGF, bumped into another couple. He was American, about 60, she Thai, about 40 something. They had been together 18 years, and married for the last 3 or so. They had worked out a deal where they spend 6 months in the States and 6 months in LOS each year. They were in the process of building a house upcountry, but purposefully a little way, but not too far away, from her village. This was a situtation they had both worked together on. I'm sure it wasn't a bumpless road, but they respected each other and seemed like good friends. So this is an example of one kind of relationship strategy that has worked in LOS. From the outside looking in, I would say it satisfies the needs of both partners, and is a realistic solution for two people that seem to want each other.

- Balls

-- Posted by cmore on 10:17 am on Mar. 15, 2003

Quote: from B Boy on 10:44 am on Mar. 15, 2003

Any advice from brothers out there who have made a success or a mistake with a BG.
Hey brother B Boy, welcome to the brotherhood. You are definitely on the right thread for answers to that question. I don't know if you've done this already but I suggest reading all 20 previous pages on this thread. There is some excellent advice here from those of us who have been, and in some cases still are, in your shoes. We'll help if we can. Peace

-- Posted by craigoz on 11:01 am on Mar. 15, 2003

BB

It is a known fact that between the age of 40-46, is one of the most dangerous/lonely times a males life, particularly if you have been in or or coming out of a long term relationship, one which was not/or is no longer satisfying.

You are 44 and a PRIME candidate to FALL for a angel who shows you affection.

A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ME (It might help you):

Mine started at 40, after 15 years of a non-satifying marriage. Since that time I tell myself that I have found true love at least 6 times, which is very questionable. In reallity I probably haven't found it yet.

On my second trip to Thai, I too found an Angel (No. 1) & headed into the THAI ABYSIS, (always very vulnerable at that time & age), telling myself she was the one that I had been searching for all my life.

MY BEST FRIEND CONVINCED ME TO WALK AWAY FROM THIS FIRST ONE, (I MEAN A VERY SWEET ANGLE), TAKE A STEP BACK & THEN TRY AGAIN IN 3 MONTHS WITH ANOTHER TG.

"The best advice I have ever had"

The next 2 1/2 years of visiting Thailand were utter bliss & found many more equal or better my No. 1, in all respects, but each time having the foresight to cut & run.
No 1 is now just a very pleasent part of my life experience over the past 3 years , just like No. 2 - ......!!

AS FOR YOU:

My guess is, you have been in this other relationship for a while & no longer find it forfilling, (a very vulnerable time).
That you have recently trecked to Thailand (maybe for the first or second time)& stumbled across this angel with great looks who demonstrates a lot more attention & affection to you, than you have ever experienced in the past. "Dont confuse her attention & affection with true love".

I suggest to take big step back & really chew it over with your best confident. You dont have to rush into it, as she is not going anywhere in the short term.

Also being back at home, apart from her for the next 4-5 months should settle your mind & allow you to ponder the long term consequences/probability of success of this relationship.

As someone else said earlier, you will always be second to her mother & her mothers needs. This is so true of a Thai girl. "Firtsly you are her support, secondly you may be her love"

It is true that there are many beautifull/loving TG's who will make you a loving wife at some time in your life, if this is ultimately what you decide on.
Better to take your time, experience what Thailand & TGs truely are, for a year or two and then decide if you want a TG for the rest of your life.
You have time as you are only 44 and thailand has a never ending recurring pool of great TGs.

-- Posted by thaiprivateeye on 12:16 pm on Mar. 15, 2003

555 - had to smile, recently had a female US citizen call me up, she had been out to LAX to meet the long term boyfriend, who had been on a trip to thailand, she assured me she was a good sort, he was quiet, loyal, and he had never travelled much, but was only interested in finding something to import ... apparently he was in Pattaya "somewhere" ... managed to get the agent who had extended his flight, and a forwarding address from there, went and found him in "pattayaland" - we had a chat, I said your girlfriends worried, he said "Hey man ... I think I must have died and gone to Heaven, I 'aint NEVER going home !! " - couldn't argue with him - ........................

-- Posted by The Machine on 12:16 pm on Mar. 15, 2003

I have been coming to Thailand for over 20 years and have" fallen in love many times".
The great thing is i still fall in love and the sex is still great and the girls are still in their twenties but i am now in my forties!
I wouldn't be in a hurry to commit myself unless i wanted to have children which i already have so am not interested in any long term relationship.Enjoy yourself and you will meet many more women like the one you mentioned but you will remain free to enjoy them.
Save yourself the heartache and enjoy the illusion for what it is.

-- Posted by craigoz on 12:29 pm on Mar. 15, 2003

So true M,

I think that ones aim in life or in Thailand for that fact, should be "To fall in love at least 10 times, but only after you had tried 1000 TGs - Then marry the 11th"

-- Posted by MrJoe on 2:15 pm on Mar. 15, 2003

Craig: That just about matches what I did!

-- Posted by yogibear on 7:18 pm on Mar. 15, 2003

ThaiPrivateEye,

Sounds as though he may have found something to "import" all right. It may take him several more trips to set up his new import business.

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 8:50 pm on Mar. 15, 2003

BB,

Be careful what you look for, you may find it.

I 've made 15 trips to the wonderfull illusion called Thailand. One thing I have found, there are many good women who given half a chance would make a great partner to go thru life with. To increase your chances of success, learn Thai, limit your drinking and don't butterfly on the women who loves you. Execpt for learning Thai, the above works equally well in your home country.

-- Posted by John NM on 9:15 pm on Mar. 15, 2003

BigD, you got it, Bud... just respect them

-- Posted by B Boy on 11:25 pm on Mar. 15, 2003

Thanks to everone but especially to Haam Sup and craigoz,

Thank you both for taking the time to give me such good and thoughtful advice.

Yes, I have been in a long relationship which has been unfufilling lately. Yes, I am at that dangerous age. Yes I need to seperate illusion from reality.

You are right when you say I would have to make sacrifices and I know that she would not fit into my world in the West.

My heart is still in love with the illusion but my head is telling me to store it away as a precious memory. I am no butterfly and 2 weeks with a TG is a heady cocktail. I think I need space and when I next come to Thailand, I need to try and experience more TGs before seeing this one again.

This forum has always been a mine of information but more importantly has always had a good feel about the majority of people who contribute positively to it.

So once again thank you to Haam Sup and craigoz and next time I am in the LOS I will contact you to see if you will allow me to buy you several drinks to show my gratitude.

-- Posted by craigoz on 1:03 pm on Mar. 16, 2003

Mr Joe, great effort.

I figure I have about 6 years to catch up to you or maybe more. Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy............. It hard to rack up an average of 100 per year when you only visit.

PS forgive the politics in the other segment.

-- Posted by craigoz on 1:07 pm on Mar. 16, 2003

BB, no problem and take it easy.
Your thoughts on trying a few other TGs are well placed, (as hard as it may be to resist the urge to see No1 when you are in Thailand)

-- Posted by MrJoe on 2:42 pm on Mar. 16, 2003

Craig: No worries. I have no problem with differences in veiw (and certainly not with criticism of the US -- there are many valid criticisms to be made and I make them myself); all I ask is that people try to be as objective and fair as possible.

Again -- no worries, but thanks for the PS.

-- Posted by craigoz on 3:19 pm on Mar. 16, 2003

No worries Mr Joe, all part of the forum and exchange of different view.

I have my times, when I am objective and then I have my times when I am not and so, jump on my hobby horse of pet hates. The USA is not one of them, but most politicians and administrations are.

The antics of some of these world politicians leaves a lot to be desired, with their over-grown egos and premadona status (this includes that little f_ckwit that pretents to run Australia - fortunately one day no one wil remember him). They are one of my pet hates.

My objection is mainly with these political idiots on both sides of the arguement, who have been elected on one platform (that is to represent the will of the people and solve issues, not escalate them - as democracy dictates), but then argue they always know better that the people.
According to them, we as lowly people must all be dum idiots with IQs so low we cannot make an informed judgments, yet they can. I would love to test the IQs of some of these clowns.

These same idiots then proceed to go off in their own personnal directions, (to satisfy their own ambitions -whatever they my be), and pretend to argue that the people elected them to do so & support them accordingly.

In reality they are afraid to test the support of the peolpe in an open referrendum and or vote.

I am just having a bitch. Catch you later

Sorry guys wrong place to post this!!!

-- Posted by Skywalker on 4:12 pm on Mar. 17, 2003

Hi all,

I have read much on the forum and found much of it facinating to read. As with the original post on this topic in regard to falling in love with a thai girl, I to have done so.

I met a girl of 19 whilst on holiday in phuket over the new year who is going to university. We spent a few weeks together and as with so many of the stories here fell for her. She isn't and has never been a bar girl (although I realise that some of the more experienced posters will say this makes little difference) and tells me that her last boyfriend was a thai boy from her home town and lasted 2 years. I have no reason to disbelieve her and she attends school away from her family who pay what appears huge fees every term for her to complete a degree. At present she is studying away in China for 3 months. I also think her age is an obvious plus in regard to any "worldly wise" or farango wise mindset that so many TG's possibly develop.

Trouble is now after reading the many posts on such themes you guys have shattered any faith I have that a meaningful relationship can be anything more than an illusion on my part.!!!!!!!

I do send her sponsorship in small amounts as she lives on very little per month being away from her family on the mainland and recieves money from her mother. She has run out of credit on her phone many times calling or sms with me and when I see her again in the middle of the year her mother and family has requested I visit them on the mainland.

Whilst I consider myself a clynical realist in the cold light of day Love as another poster here with great weight has said, rarely allows for such luxuries.

I have now started to frantically try and pick apart anything which would lead me to think I am being played better than Columbo when he has his suspect well and truely in the sights!!Trouble is I can't think of anything although I realise by reading previous posts many TG's would leave Paltrow or Zeta jones for dead in the acting stakes! I think I'll just blame you guys for turning me into a doom merchant and cynic within one post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am considering asking her some things next time we chat since discovering this forum but can't see it would do anything but possibly sour what at present is great, with a realistic zero of any truth being told even if it is not the reality in anything more than my own deluded mind.

No greater fool than an old fool has for the first time crept in to mind but I'm not that old at 31 and hopefully not a fool either?

For a matter of interest are there any westerners here who have thai partners with whom they have been with for some time or is it really down hill all the way? I'm trying to find some hope before seeking solace in alcoholic beverages......................

Seriously any positive advice or observations given will be greatly appreciated and mulled over!!!!

I hope I can enjoy the board and thankyou already for such facinating and in the main positive sources of information that appear available here.

S.W

-- Posted by Marco on 4:48 pm on Mar. 17, 2003

Your view is really distorted by this forum !!
99% of the people here are talking about BGs or girls that have made a job of being sponsored by farangs. This is by far a minority of the Thai girls !
The huge majority are regular girls, not better or worse than in other countries.
If you have no reasons to doubt, don't be so suspicious.
An easy question is where did you meet her ? If in a disco or a place popular with foreigners maybe you can think that she is looking for a farang (for whatever reasons, not necessarily a bad girl).

Just be sensible don't freak her out with too much paranoia !

-- Posted by oldhand on 4:53 pm on Mar. 17, 2003

There are numerous cases of people
having happy marriages look how
many Thai/Farang kids there are
on Thai TV and the movies. I have
at least five friends married for
twenty years plus to Thai girls they
met either here or overseas.

The bigger question is whether you
or she are ready to settle into a longer
term relationship and understand all
that goes with it.

-- Posted by vinny on 10:13 am on April 29, 2003

I started this thread what seems like such a long time ago. For one reason or another I have not been in this forum for ages. However, I am glad to see it still going from strength to strength.

As this thread is still active I will read all the posts here in the next day or two and let you know the current situation with my pal and his Thai G/F.

-- Posted by cmore on 10:28 am on April 29, 2003

Welcome back brother Vinny. You have been missed. Looking forward to hearing all the latest and also how you're doing. Hows the neck feeling these days? Keep us posted. Peace

-- Posted by vinny on 10:39 am on April 29, 2003

Thank you CMORE for your welcome back message. Neck problems still exist, but life goes on. That aside, I wish you and all the other contacts I made here all the best. And it is time for me to sleep now so will update you over next day or two.

-- Posted by invaderzim on 4:27 am on April 30, 2003

just be careful bro use caution use your brain and not your heart especially whilst shes away. I would give her as much credit as I would a western girl which isnt much whats the worst that could happen you can always get another TGF

besides anyone ever think that you usually only hear the bad stories on the intenet and those with good stories dont bother putting thier stories on the internet because they are happy and dont even think to whos more likely to write a story someone whos hearts been broken or someone whos happy and living thier life happily not looking back you know what I mean if your happy why would you be looking for outlets like this to write a story I'd be to busy being happy i dunno

-- Posted by Skywalker on 8:47 am on April 30, 2003

Thanks for the Input guys,

It's been a while since the original post and is going well, if a "we told you so" appears on the horizon I shall no doubt let you know!

Once again thanks

S.

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 11:07 am on April 30, 2003

Skywalker,

Go with your gut, but keep your wits about you. Be prudent, but let love happen. Your age differences aren't so vast -- that means you may have more in common than you think, regardless of the cultural chasm. If you've read this thread, you know my story. I will be posting more, but my ISP is mangling the javascript from this board, so it is now rare that I can get through and even post something like this (I've traded a few emails with DK, but there is not much either of us can do about it).

Anyway, there is a 20 year age gap between me and my TGF, but neither of us are too worried about it. But one cannot be an "absentee landlord" in any relationship. I am trying to get a business off the ground right now, and it is delaying my next trip to LOS. When I asked my TGF tonight if she could "othon" (have patience) for the 5 years it will take to make it profitable, she responded: "Please not make me lonely too long, maybe I do something stupid." It hurts just to hear that, and she said it with a sincere pathos. So we all have our limits, TGFs and farangs. I know where hers are.

Enjoy love now, it's a rare commodity. As the saying goes, "it's all good." You have the power to make it so, and not dwell on the bad. Chok dee ...

- Balls

-- Posted by Skywalker on 9:04 am on May 1, 2003

Hi Balls,

Thanks for the words of wisdom appreciate it, the strength needed to wait for a time period you talked about would be immense and Utmost respect if you have to test anything near to it! Luckily I only have to wait a few more weeks on this occasion.

However, it must be of immense difficulty for many people who have fallen in love with the culture (let alone a women), to "make it" in Thailand with the obvious language and other difficulties and was interested in the experiences of those here who actually work in Bangkok etc, after leaving the bullsh_t Rat race and morally bangkrupt western systems. (The irony when we talk about BG's is not lost on me but I don't mean in that context)!!!!!!!LOL.

Apologies if this is the wrong area of the board.

Thanks again

S.

-- Posted by LadyAnne on 2:48 pm on May 10, 2003

You guys :-)
I'm asking as I'm TG..is there real love when you have GF or you are in love with someone?Any problems in language and other things?I need to know ka...anyone want to tell me frankly..
Thanks ka

-- Posted by Arcadius on 4:11 pm on May 10, 2003

A tricky question, Lady A. After all, what is "real" love?

I suspect most of us know it when it hits us.

And, yes, of course there are language problems. Culture-gap problems are even more important. Farang and Thais have very different ways of thinking about many things.

But, well... behind all that there are just men and women. And behind men and women there are just human beings. I think emotional contact is easier than intellectual contact.

-- Posted by LadyAnne on 11:37 pm on May 10, 2003

Bros....
I don't know either what is real love? But when live without love is like my life is very empty..so lonely huuuu..Good luck that I know a bit English and can come here lol...
Fairy tale? I want to have it happened to me once lol

-- Posted by Addy 007 on 11:51 pm on May 10, 2003

I think it's very tricky to define exactly what love it, as it is a number of things from powerful feelings of true happiness, contentment, fulfullmint, joy, euphoria...to name but a few.

I have found love with a t/g, who is currently living in Surin. We are both keeping in touch on a regular basis, and although she wants to come to England, i have asked her to give this very careful consideration.

I love her, but i want the best for her & for her to be happy, and if that means she stays in Thailand, then so be it. As long as she is not working the bar, then that's enough for me.

Bro's - i will explain all in FR's (eventually!)...apologies for the delay!

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 1:47 am on May 11, 2003

LadyAnne,

Yes I do love my TGF, but we have come to our current relationship at different speeds. I felt an immediate attraction to her when I first met her. She was the one who introduced herself to me as she had a similar feeling. But she did not really think it was "real" for several months, as she had listened to so much nonsense in the club she worked at.

Last night I called her to say hi. She laughed and said "funny you call me teelakja, I going to call you too." So after a year and a half, we share more than time together. There is also no real desire on her part to live in the U.S.A. (she would like to visit, of course) and I have no problem with retiring in Thailand. As she said to me once "I love Thailand" and she was quite serious about that.

I would say I feel for her the same thing I have felt for other ladies with whom I've had serious relationships, both farang and non-farang. Arcadius hit the nail on the head: it is far easier to feel emotional connections first. I have found it is possible to get beyond the initial emotions because both of us seem to want this.

- Balls

-- Posted by LadyAnne on 11:52 am on May 11, 2003

Bros
Thanks to share your experiences ka..
I was in love with my ex BF..he's farang but because of the long distance..Now we keep in touch as friends only..So sad story....chai mai?

-- Posted by PopSecret on 1:41 pm on May 11, 2003

LadyAnne / all,

I've always been somewhat suspicious of farangs who claim they have real relationships with their TG's abroad that can last the test of time. Apparently some do, and I even have a friend who married a Thai wife. But I can't help but wonder what kind of relationship it could really be considering how different they are.

When I was in Thailand I met girls that I certainly lusted after and even girls who I might have wanted a real reationship with, but the language and culture barrier was always a little too much. We could connect on a basic emotional level, but not really bond together. Toward the end of my stay I made a point of looking for girls who could speak more English, and I had even more fun, but it still was not the same as having a GF who truly understands you. I think being able to understand each other and be close to each other is key to making it work.

Certainly this is possible for the expats out there, but not so much for those still living at home. My friend had to spend the better part of two years in and around Thailand in order to make the relationship work. Few of us can really spare that kind of time, regardless of our affections.

It may not be pretty, but I think it's the truth.

-- Posted by LadyAnne on 12:19 am on May 12, 2003

Ahhhhhh..I see ka
But many farang who live in Thailand can have happy family..I can see that...

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 8:05 pm on May 13, 2003

Falling in love, being in love and last but not least staying in love. Is this the cruelest illusion of all?

Beat's the hell out of me.

I've been comming to Thailand since 99. I'm on my 16th trip and as many of the members know I'm hangen with the homies in Pattaya. I've been seeing one BG that I meet on my first trip to Pattaya. Her name is Pukky and she works at the Flamingo Bar, soi 2, second pool table down fro 2nd road. Stop in and see her, she can use the business. She speaks excellent english and has the type of personality one girl in a hundred has. She has a sparkle and joy for life that's amazing. She is a very popular BG. Had a great time with her on my first trip and told her when I came back, I'd see here again. She smiled and said sure, I'd like to see you again. I try to come to LOS three to five times a year. Couple of months later, I'm back in Pattaya and walk in to her bar. Denny, your back and with a big smile she gives me a hug. I find out that I'm the first guy who ever came back to see her. I told her, I'm a butterfly but she's the first women I see and the last women I see when I leave. Up untill my last trip she was ok with this. With Pokky we get along so well and have so much to talk about. I ask her to stay with me during the day. We enjoy each other's company and I can see that she is falling in love with me. When a women's in love with you, they act differently in small ways and Pukky has started doing this.

For about a year, I've started to experience the real deal: GFE with all the + & - that go along with it. It started slowly with Pokky, she had made herself a promise, never fall in love with a falang/customer and I respected her for it. I treated her like I treat all women with respect. I like women and they can sense that I do. For some reason I have the gift of making people laugh and Pokky has such a good command of english she can understand my word play and enjoy my humor. Guys, your half way home if you can make a women laugh and if you can make her have the BIG O every once in awile, she will luv you looong time. :):)

Last month there a change with Pooky. She realizes she's in love with me (the real deal). This trip I'm in Pattaya for a long time and I don't want to stay with her the whole trip. If I do, I know I won't want to leave. She stays with me for the first week or so. It's like being in Thai girl friend heaven. I want to start my butterfly phase, Pokky becomes possessive and start's to cry. What's wrong, you never had a problem with me seeing other women until now. Dammit, I'm in love with you and it hurts. We talk and the next day she goes back to work. She gets a long term bf and I don't see her again. I hope to hook up with her next October and see where this takes us.

-- Posted by nokna on 9:59 pm on May 13, 2003

interesting last few posts.

-- Posted by LadyAnne on 10:47 pm on May 13, 2003

Bro..BigDusa
Don't you have her e-mail or her phone number? What's long term BF cus you just met her last month?

-- Posted by peterpan on 2:02 am on May 14, 2003

sorry but have double posted sorry bros

Lady Anne .
this may prove a point.
I have known my Gf for 3 years . She is the girl with the smile in my story. Most of you say that your Gf is different and I believe we find something we have not got in our lives.call it whatever name you will.
We keep in touch by mail and have been back and forward to see her . At the hotel we stay in , she is the one that takes the key to the reception when we go out,
her that makes the bed in the morning , saying that no one will make my bed but her.

She has always had a bad eye and on my last trip, I did not say anything but noticed that it would not be long before she would have to have it seen too.

last week she fell off a motor bike on her way to work.I do not have the money for her operation yet , but offered to send her the money that I had saved for my air fare.

I will let you see her reply;-
Subject: I want to see you more than keep you wait.
Date; Tues 13 may 2003 10:45:44 +0700

dear Peter,
Peter,after i have thought carefullyI don,t want to bother you more if i recieve your moneybut you could't come to bangkok as intended. You know I exactly want to see you more than keep you waiting until later this year. I dont wan't to trouble you my dear peter.however about my eye trouble,I feel hurt in my eyes and unable to sleep late at night So it effect my body because I can't workwell as usual.As I said I got Motorcycle accident so during this time it seems make me headache+ have fever and cannot work.........
Thats why I decide to have the operation.
Peter my dear. again sorry for disturbing you> I will realize that you have to work hard to get money. please take care of your health for me.
love and miss you very much.

J xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

she gave her decision to me, not her. I know we have something , is it love , feels like it when we walk arm in arm down the street.

I dont know what to do but will give it great thought .

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 2:10 am on May 14, 2003

LadyAnne,

We have been seeing each other for about the last 18 month's. I emailed her, waiting for a response. Her last two mobile phone's were stolen at work.

-- Posted by Arcadius on 2:22 am on May 14, 2003

I know we have something, is it love?

I suspect that's a question most of us have had to ask ourselves in circumstances which are hopelessly unconventional, badly charted and highly confusing.

Perhaps it's better to give up on the attempted definitions and cut straight to the chase.

Is this 'something' - whatever the hell it is - valuable enough to be worth trying to preserve and develop?

-- Posted by peterpan on 4:02 am on May 14, 2003

Arcadius.

I ask myself this question a lot, and come to the conclusion, we are all born differently . and are we hunters or can we forget the sanook and settle down.
Is it love. i think we should call it chemistry.

-- Posted by invaderzim on 4:11 am on May 14, 2003

that could just be skillfull sweet talking but who knows

-- Posted by Addy 007 on 4:27 am on May 14, 2003

Arcadius:

i do love my tgf, however i am a realistic person and do accept that the relationship may not work due to any number of reasons such as distance, language, culture...etc...etc. However the thing i am willing to do is give this relationship a damn good go...it is only early days but the signs are good and Iíve visited her in Thailand twice in 6 months, and we have got on well, even had a few arguments, but this has brought us even closer.

As i realist i do love her, but being honest with myself Iím not deeply in love with her yet - for this i need to spend more time with her, and maybe part of me is holding back until we are living together. A long way to go...
:kissing:

-- Posted by LadyAnne on 9:15 am on May 14, 2003

aowwwww
3 times for posting messages but still can't see them..
I will try again later then

-- Posted by peterpan on 6:11 pm on May 14, 2003

I don't know whether knokna will agree with me.
But ,somewhere along the line the sweet talk dissapears like overnight. whether there is a mutual understanding I dont know . but it isn't there now and when i phone , i think it could be me that doe's it.

But on the other hand can you imagine the girls mind that have to keep up this pretense, there mind must be boggled with the keeping of just just the names in the head and what they said to you.they seem to do it very well.

-- Posted by Lofty on 9:15 pm on May 14, 2003

I can relate to you Peterpan. Unfortunatly I messed up with the girl I felt something for (whatever that maybe), because I like Sanuck too much.

Now as she says we are only friends... she not go with me..

You don't know how much I want to take her when I see her in her bar... or is this just wanting something you can't have?

Why are things so complicated. Why does my dick rule my life?

-- Posted by peterpan on 3:52 am on May 15, 2003

Lofty
you have my sympathy. I just don't wan't to.
Not that Ive had my day, I would hate to come to your situation. keep trying man she could come round.
have a good trip

-- Posted by Skywalker on 8:49 am on May 15, 2003

After following the recent replies, and some of the stories/experiences that appear to ring true of my own, I'm just wondering if as a small group we seem to understand what makes Asian souls so different from that of westerners? Or how my perception of the "majority" of them have sadly become? Maybe it is just a case of the of western societies peoples being let down so badly by those who are elected to serve, and thus the systems/cultures that have evolved allowing things to have effected men/women in these societies so badly?

I still have problems understanding how East Asian people with the huge hardships so many face on a daily basis, be so wonderful on a human level.

It is amazing that so many experiences here appear to point to those who want relationships with some depth and feeling with women of this area of the world, and the all most magical way they appear to effect many of us who have let others share their stories in this thread it is clearly evident.

When the "I've been to bed with 5 Bar girls tonight" stuff is stripped from the conversation it really has shocked me that so many really still just want to be respected and cared for by another!

Sorry if this has gone to a rather silly depth but I'm just expressing what I see in the words on the page!!!

The last couple of pages tonight have left me with the same feeling that you get at the end of a star trek episode, that maybe just maybe it aint so bad after all and that hope can sometimes be a good thing!!!

That for every bg that's playing a monster hand there's another who is just looking for a card with the same value. And for those western guys fortunate enough to have seen the same wonderments in them that we see...................?

S.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Posted by peterpan on 11:38 pm on May 15, 2003

skywalker

I agree with you , i spent 5 weeks, went Laos Cambodia. and northern Thailand. did it as a old man backpacker met some wonderful people but, the locals were a dream and not once did i see any anger.I dealt with a horrif bike crash and saw the apathy of the faces knowing there was nothing they could do. but they all came and thanked me for helping.

Getting away from bangkok can be a revalation sometimes, just to meet the people.

-- Posted by Nick on 1:19 am on May 16, 2003

I can relate to this thread. having had a regular TG for two years, coming to stay with me two weeks every month. (outside Thailand)

Cost me a fortune to support for all the usual TG needs... rent, car payments, food, 'saving to make new house for Ma ma', sons school, clothes etc. But worth every cent because she was so much in love with me.

She maintained she only needed 30k bhat/month, but the reality upon reflection was four times that. But she was diferent!

Until one month I had to pay a large tax bill, and could only give her 25k. But she was so much in love with me.... that she came back a week early, and only the day after I gave her the bad news.

Not to stay with me but to go back on the game.

Any idea how it feels to see the love of your life, walking out of a bar arm in arm with a new customer, instead of in your kitchen making tom yam goong?

But mabe she was different from all the rest?

Never again.... until the next time.

-- Posted by LadyAnne on 11:45 am on May 16, 2003

Bro Nick
You said she's regular TG but ..but in the end of story you said she 's walking out of the bar arms in arms with new customer..It's so strange!

-- Posted by ChicagoGuy on 12:00 pm on May 16, 2003

As for "Falling in Love with a Bar Girl":

Short and to the point:
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/article/article2.html

Very long, but very interesting reading:
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/girls.html

It is just one man's opinion (and I don't necessarily agree with what he says), but it is another view. Important: The articles are specifically talking about BGs, not TGs.

-- Posted by Simon WS on 12:03 pm on May 16, 2003

Stickman is a bigot and a jerk. The proportion of 'good' girls is far higher in LOS than in the West or even HK etc. So what's his problem. He's a whiner.

-- Posted by Arcadius on 1:09 pm on May 16, 2003

Certainly not Stickman at his best.

Judging by the date of the first article, I'd say he was at the height of his "I'm disillusioned, and it makes me puke that everyone else isn't also disillusioned" phase.

Sure, if you never go with the same girl twice &c &c, you'll probably keep 'safe' from falling in love. That would apply just about anywhere with anyone. However, since he makes such an arbitrary distinction between sex (good) and love (bad), it's worth pointing out that quite often the sex is one helluva lot better second time round. Even with BGs.

Goodness me, these evil young women are just SO dangerous. And we poor defenceless little men are just SO put-upon.

It's all so unfair...

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 7:24 pm on May 18, 2003

Lot of lonely guys come to Thailand looking for love and for the most part they are looking in the wrong places with the wrong kind of girl.

Back in the day, when I was single in the US. I was 40 at the time. I'm bearded, balding I was about 30 lbs lighter then I am now. I worked as a truck driver. Guys I worked with were amazed that I was always able to meet good women with warm heart's as I'm not a good looking guy. I was asked what my secret. Simple, I go where good women with warm heart's hang out. I would go to church social's or the local book store when a author would be there selling her book. I've met many women in the supermarket. I just look dumb (not hard for me to do) and ask questions. The point is I'm always looking and I'm NOT looking in bars. I realize this is hard to do in LOS because we are here for a s/t.

I can relate to Stickman after living here for a few years and doing the bar scene, The BS and all that goes with it with many of the BG would get BORING. The same inanae childlike conversations with girls who are poorly educated. The list could go on and on........... 9 days until I willingly engage in inanae childlike conversations.....

-- Posted by LadyAnne on 7:42 pm on May 18, 2003

Bro BigDusa
Your experiences are evry interesting for me.
AS you guys are guys,can you pls tell me how easy for guys to fall in love woman?What in gals that you will pay attention at the first? Good looking,long black hair,good shape or nice personality?
What if I'm not beautiful ..but want to have guys to be in love with?
Ohhhhh..Just would like to know what's you guys thinking in women..
**smile**smile**smile**

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 8:46 pm on May 18, 2003

All men are different.

I'm 56 y/o and when I was a young man, I looked for different thing in a women then many other men.

Most men are suckers for a good looking women. I've always believed in letting them crowd around her. I would look at the girls who were not so pretty and maybe have lumpy bodies. No crowd's around these girls. I looked for a women who spoke well and was interested in what life had to offer. I like people who read and have a interest in what's going on in the world around them. I like a women with a strong sense of self. When I was in high school, my best buddy laughed, you go out wih the biggest collection of dogs, BUT you have the most fun with them then all of us. The pretty ones were for the most part interested only in themselves. The girls I was with were interested in ME.

Looks fade but you live with the personality for a long time. Sad but true most guys don't GET IT.

-- Posted by Arcadius on 9:37 pm on May 18, 2003

Lady A

You must have seen many farang guys in Bangkok with a Thai girl in tow. I'm talking about couples which seem to be in long-term relationships, not casual pick-ups.

Now farang and Thais ideas about female beauty are different. But quite a lot of of these girls are not good-looking by any standard. So it follows, doesn't it, that beauty alone cannot be the deciding factor for many guys? I mean, Bangkok is one place where finding a beautiful woman - if that's the most important thing - is not difficult.

There's no point in generalising. I don't think most people really know why they fall in love with someone else - it just happens.

In my own time, I've managed to fall in love with women ranging from very beautiful through quite cute to downright plain.

I've also managed to fall in love with uneducated bargirls as well as highly-educated professional women. While the experience was very different, I would not say that it was inferior.

-- Posted by PopSecret on 11:00 pm on May 18, 2003

Lady A,

I think I agree with BigDUSA for the most part. Most guys fall in LUST based on looks more than anything. Guys are braindead when they are in lust, and often confuse this feeling with LOVE. However, true love requires a special bond than can be established only by people who really know each other. That's not to say that you can't eventually love the girl you first lusted after, but that's not the kind of thing you can depend on.

I say this because this has been my experience. I have wasted countless amounts of energy and time focusing on girls I thought were pretty and ignoring the girls who would have made a real difference in my life. Even when I traveled to Thailand, I started out by picking girls based purely on looks while my more expereinced friend picked girls based on their attitude.

In the end I almost always had a good time, but my very best experience happened with the girl I found least visually appealing. She catered to me in ways that the other girls never even attempted, and her kindness was incredibly satisfying - both physically and mentally. It was a true reminder of all those facts I should have learned eons ago.

Lady A, I honestly don't know exactly what you're looking for with this question (advice, witty banter, a list of turn-on's?), but I hope this provides at least a little insight into the mind of at least one man. Hopefully you will eventually get a lot more responses from the rest of the bros so you can see the bigger picture. Just because I agree with BigDUSA doesn't mean we're not the exception instead of the rule.

-PS

-- Posted by Skywalker on 6:29 am on May 19, 2003

Better Count me in as another exception to then PS!!

Lady A if you have such a fascination with farangs just hang around with a few and get to know them as friends, a life rich in variety when interacting with others is surely what makes it so interesting?

S.

-- Posted by LadyAnne on 8:15 pm on May 20, 2003

LUST come before LOVE
or
LOVE come before LUST

SEX without LOVE
or
LOVE without SEX

-- Posted by Arcadius on 8:21 pm on May 20, 2003

All those things are possible, aren't they? Even for the same person.

I think sex without love comes more naturally to men than to women, though.

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 12:49 am on May 21, 2003

LadyAnne,

When I met my TGF the first time, I knew within 5 minutes that I wanted to be with her. Not sure why, but I had this instinctive feeling that I had to do SOMETHING and do it now, before she disappeared from my life forever. So I b/f'd her within 10 minutes and the rest is history (in the making). Physically, she's pretty enough, but what I really like about her is her personality. She is very kind hearted, and she lets me be me. I do like long hair, and hers was down to her waist when I met her. She has since cut about 8 inches off it and threatens to make it even shorter -- I told her not to do it. To me, her hair is like a beautiful dark waterfall, and I love to run my hands through it. BTW, my TGF is the least educated woman I've been with, but is smart and practical in other ways.

By comparison, I also fell deeply in love once with a really smart, broadly educated lawyer from Los Angeles, who, come to think of it, had a similar personality to my TGF. But the timing for that relationship wasn't right. That lady wasn't the prettiest I've been with, but I was attracted to who she was inside, a really exceptional person.

I agree with BigD -- in the end, looks fade, but the heart must continue to hold the flame.

- Balls

-- Posted by Addy 007 on 3:59 am on May 21, 2003

I pretty much agree with the other bro's that I initially fall in lust- short term, but when Iíve fallen in love it's with a girl I didn't particularly hold an initial attraction for, but she grew on me. Love is so much more than good looks ñ however saying that good looks do hold the initial attraction.

I do like pretty girls, but not too beautiful - I find these ladies superficial and shallow. I want someone I fall in love with to be a wife, lover, friend & companion. These are the qualities that hold a relationship together.

-- Posted by oneeye on 10:19 am on May 21, 2003

Balls;

"When I met my TGF the first time, I knew within 5 minutes that I wanted to be with her. Not sure why, but I had this instinctive feeling that I had to do SOMETHING and do it now, before she disappeared from my life forever."

Wow, this struck a chord with me! I did this with my TGF - literally love at first sight, and just a desperate emotion on my part that I had to act before she disappeared, or someone else got her. She headed off for postgraduate education overseas, and I've spent the last 5 years chasing her around the globe. A truly sappy romantic story as we've both gone to extreme travel lengths to be with eachother.

However, I cannot say that I've been truly happy with this decision. The differences that have emerged over time are so great that I don't know if we are going to make it. And those differences are only discovered through experience. I've heard of some people deciding on their future spouse within 5 minutes of meeting them, perhaps Richard Nixon being the most notable one I can think of. But frankly RN's marriage was not completely happy.

In my case, it wasn't lust, but was a serious effort to find love, that drew me to my TGF. Lust is indeed immediate, but after this experience I am convinced that real love takes serious time to emerge, that it cannot happen at first sight.

Look at the way Thais do things - they tend to date forever (without sex even!) before getting married. The norm I've noticed with educated Thais is around 5-6 years, and in some cases 10. Divorce is uncommon in Thailand, although I think this is because allowances are made in Thai marriages that are unthinkable in western ones.

Anyway, I have to think that a go-go bar is not a great place to be lookin' for love. Ok to find lust with love overtones, but I definitely would be wary of thinking any customer-supplier relationship along these lines would really turn into binding love. When I was playing more seriously, I limited my go-go bar activities to looking for Mrs. Right Now, not Mrs. Right.

-- Posted by Arcadius on 1:14 pm on May 21, 2003

I definitely would be wary of thinking any customer-supplier relationship along these lines would really turn into binding love

Well, I disagree (I mean, I think it is at least possible if not probable), but in any case I think the key word there is 'binding'. We're in danger here of confusing 'falling in love' with 'selecting a life-long mate'. Personally, I don't see why the first needs to imply the second at all, although it may.

Let's take a common enough scenario. You're in a bar with a BG, you fancy her (lust) and you seem to hit it off quite well (the 'click'). You decide to take her for LT. You discover that you hit it off in bed as well, and having got to know her a bit better, you find that you actually like her a lot. In fact, now that you come to think about it, you'll be hard-pressed to do much better. A brief internal struggle, and then... oh what the hell, you might as well dump those plans for 5 days of promiscuous abandon and take her with you to Samui.

Will she want to come, though? She does. You find yourself feeling more chuffed about this than you ought to.

Three days pass. She's consistently delightful, you're very glad to be with her, you never tire of her. She seems anxious to do whatever it takes to please you, and she's very good at it. OK, you know this is her job and you're paying for it, but you have to admit that the service is quite exceptional and you're grateful. In fact, just chucking her some money seems very inadequate repayment for the wonderful experience she's giving you. You start wanting to please her too, and you get a kick when you succeed. So, gradually, your own pleasure becomes bound up with hers.

Then, one night, passion spent, you're watching her sleeping with a sappy smile on your face, and you're suddenly hit by a strong wave of tenderness for her. So what's this then? It's not just 'lust' - you're way past thinking of her only as a pretty piece of girlmeat. 'Like' is hopelessly inadequate. What does that leave? Admit it, you've gone and fallen for her. You know you're not supposed to, but there it is.

In all likelihood, she's an ill-educated rice farmer's daughter from Isaan, and young enough to be your own daughter. You know she's quite unsuitable as a potential lifetime partner, even if you're available. You don't even entertain the possibility.

Nevertheless, you've gone and fallen in love with her. Oh yes you have. You know already that you're going to feel wretched when you have to say good-bye to her, and that she'll be on your mind a lot during the bleak months to come in farangland. You're never going to forget her either.

Imho, love is just something that happens to you. It's outside your control. What you do about it is certainly under your control. But that's something else.

-- Posted by PopSecret on 1:33 pm on May 21, 2003

Acardius,

I've meant to say this before, but this is the first time I've gotten around to it.

You put thoughts to words with incredible skill.

I wish there were more people like you. Not just on message boards, but in society at large.

Keep up the good work! Even when I don't agree with you, I find it very difficult to argue with you.

-- Posted by cmore on 1:37 pm on May 21, 2003

Very beautifully stated brother Arcadius. I agree with brother Pop. You do know your stuff :). Peace

-- Posted by ChicagoGuy on 10:39 pm on May 23, 2003

Good post Arcadius. You have described beautifully what happens from the guys point of view. I'd be very interested in what you have to say about what this farmgirl from Issan is thinking and feeling! Care to give it a try?

-- Posted by craigoz on 11:35 am on May 24, 2003

Arc,

"You know she's quite unsuitable as a potential lifetime partner, even if you're available. You don't even entertain the possibility"

QUESTION: Why not (entertain the idea) and what makes this a forgone conclusion on his behalf (ie That he knows it wont work)?

"Unsuitable as a potential lifetime partner" - Some might suggest that he has this perception, because she is,

1. Poor and possibly has family dependents.
2. Uneducated to the same level as him.
3. Has a sexual history which worries him or in some way threatens him.
4 Just too young for him and he questions what other might say or think about the two of them together.
5. Culturally different.

I would suggest that it is none of the above and more likely that if he has gone their with this pre-concieved view, because,

(a) He doesn't want it to work because as he has been burnt emotionally before (divorce)and doesn't want to put himself in the same position again. So, he keeps some of his feelings in reserve, finds it hard to fully commit and finds its much easier emotionally - to just pay the field.

(b) Or has been convinced by others that it cant work, so he doesn't really need to try.

(c) Or he is just passing through and really hasn't got the time that is necessary to get to know her as a potential partner.

I would rank the order of probability as
(a) 75%
(c) 20%
(b) 5%

Be interested to hear why most have this pre-concieved view before they even meet or get to know the girl?

-- Posted by Smegma on 11:49 am on May 24, 2003

Craig,

That sentence from Arc. that you quote, he uses talking about the guy once he has fallen in love; but the guy thinks about she being unsuitable as potential "life-time" partner.

Your (A) is a very good reason for many men for not "falling" again. As you say, it could also be a reason for him not willing to commit because he has been hurt before. But if the man erects this wall to protect himself, this wall would help avoid falling for any girl, including "good" girls from his own culture.

I think that among the many (there are more) reasons why he may think that she is unsuitable as life-time partner, the ones you mention -in your 1 to 5- are probably some of them.

-- Posted by thaiprivateeye on 12:01 pm on May 24, 2003

Have to add a story here, I think I had been in LOS maybe2 or 3 years, figured i knew all the answers, and that all i needed in life was a very young, pretty, subservant TG to live with me, and all would be fine and dandy. Found the model working at Pratunam, a real cutie, IQ minimal, but that was irrelevant [ well, at the time ] so she moved in with me, all was OK for a month or two, till the novelty sort of wore off, and remember very clearly, what spealt out for me that although this scenario had been my "perfect answer/dream" it was not so, in reality.
I had come home from a long day, at the time a Marketing manager for a large hotel, all I wanted was to just put my feet up and relax for an hour or two ... this 18 yr. old little glamour, then proceeds to undress me, do all she can to arouse the jaded farang, eventually managing to force a weak effort out of me ... she then asks me with a big smile, "now can I have 30 baht to go buy some somtum" !!! - I said why the hell didnt you just ask me for the 30 baht in the first place, - at that stage I realised ms Mae's days were numbered, dont know where she ended up, but hope she did OK, she was a very pretty, honest, simple TG ... - probably summed up by her reply one day, when I asked her what she really aspired to do in her life, " well, one day, if I have money, I would really like to have a small noodle shop in my village " ......

-- Posted by Arcadius on 7:22 pm on May 24, 2003

Why not (entertain the idea) and what makes this a forgone conclusion on his behalf (ie That he knows it wont work)?

Why not indeed? I certainly don't agree with the idea that it can't work - and anyone who shoulders the risks and puts a real effort into making it work has my best wishes. That goes for the two of them.

All I was trying to do there was talk through the 'falling in love with a BG' process from the pov of one fairly typical guy. And to make the point that just because you cannot - or will not - commit to her (for whatever reason), it doesn't make you any less susceptible to Cupid's arrows. Sure, a different guy might very well say: 'What the f_ck, I've got nothing else in my life, I'll give it a go.'

We often talk about 'love' here in terms of the big C. I tend to think of it as strong engagement of the tender emotions. Other people might call this 'infatuation', but that's only a semantic quibble. Part of the problem we have is that English (usually so rich in vocabulary) falls down completely in this department. We get one pathetic little word to describe many different (tho related) states of mind and types of emotional connection.

I think TPE's story is very interesting. He falls for this girl Mae, instals her as his live-in lover, but then tires of her after 'a month or two'. I suspect that many of the BGs we fall for might also become tiresome if we had to live with them for any length of time. Most tourists are with their BGs for a couple of weeks at most, and the relationship is brutally cut short when enchantment is still at full flood. That's why the separation hurts like buggery. If they'd carried on for two months, the magic might well have started to wear off. Passion doesn't always mutate into something quieter but deeper - sometimes it just evaporates.

Expats are in a slightly different boat. Most relationships with BGs tend to be episodic rather than continuous, but last a lot longer. I've accumulated a small group of 'part-time mistresses' I've known for various lengths of time - all working girls. I feel strong affection for all of them and one in particular rings my bell loud & clear. I find myself thinking about her a lot.

As I'm already 'committed', and have no intention of getting uncommitted, there's nothing much I can offer these women. All I can do is love them, take an interest in them, throw a bit of regular (& hopefully not too uncongenial) business their way. I know they give me far more than I give them, and I am grateful. I won't see any of them more than twice a month (at most), because I don't WANT to tire of them. At any event, I don't see why love has to lead anywhere. You can just live in the present (like most BGs do, of course) and enjoy it purely for its own sake for as long as you can hold onto it. Does that make it any less real?

-- Posted by nokna on 7:39 pm on May 24, 2003

i have to agree with many of Arcs points.

"Most tourists are with their BGs for a couple of weeks at most, and the relationship is brutally cut short when enchantment is still at full flood. That's why the separation hurts like buggery. If they'd carried on for two months, the magic might well have started to wear off. Passion doesn't always mutate into something quieter but deeper - sometimes it just evaporates."

this is a very good point.
i agree that many people only see the girls for a short time period.
but i met a girl and returned twice to see her again.

yes i was probably infatuated with her(and still am) and would it have worked if we lived together?,i don't know.
but would love the chance to find out.
i have not seen her for almost a year and still think of her every day.

-- Posted by peterpan on 2:49 am on May 25, 2003

Nockna

Agree with you whole heartingly.
But wonder ,if its not love can someone define what it is.
I miss Little every day,and have just found out that she had a stroke last week and has been in hospital.
I feel a sh_te for not being there for her. I wouldn't call that infatuation. We have been together for a month, and nothing wore off, in fact it made it harder to leave.

-- Posted by francescodepazzi on 5:45 pm on May 25, 2003

Arcadius,

Your last couple of posts here have really encapsulated the issue. They've been well thought through, and expressed with a great clarity. Good stuff.

IMHO when it comes to making this kind of relationship work I believe it is a balance between expectation, effort and opportunity.

For me BKK was a great contrasting of the western career type that I normally meet, with your loving, simple and open BG. I think BigDude made a similar point. On the immediate level ñ but not just the sexual ñ the BG made me feel a comfort, happiness and pleasure than I never have with a western girl (short of being deeply and wholly in love with them). But that, I think, is because the way we related ëemotionallyí was so different than how I do with people back home. It was not just infatuation, but an immediacy of relationship that would take some time to develop when dating back home.

Speaking for myself - young, educated, driven, and have the opportunity to achieve - I canít see a typical BG fitting into a life with me. That is both because of my expectations of a partner, and her lack of fit in the ëplaceí I live my life. With a great deal of effort on both our parts perhaps something could work, but the only way one will be commited to achieiving that is when you are sure that the substance is more than infatuation. Without the opportunity to spend time with the girl in a non-artificial situation ñ a trip to BKK is a holiday, it is not my life ñ you donít get to experience the hum drum and so discover if there is love behind it.

But, at a different time in my life, when what I seek in a partner has perhaps changed, or if Iím prepared to live as an ex-pat, then expectation, effort and opportunity will find a new balance. That combination may be one that allows me to fall in love with a TG.

One more post for my upgrade . . .

-- Posted by francescodepazzi on 5:48 pm on May 25, 2003

Sorry. Double post. My computer didn't log the first time as successful. Didn't do it to get the BBP status (honest)

-- Posted by Tsonoqua on 10:38 pm on May 25, 2003

To quote Arcadius:
_____________________________________________

I think TPE's story is very interesting. He falls for this girl Mae, instals her as his live-in lover, but then tires of her after 'a month or two'. I suspect that many of the BGs we fall for might also become tiresome if we had to live with them for any length of time. Most tourists are with their BGs for a couple of weeks at most, and the relationship is brutally cut short when enchantment is still at full flood. That's why the separation hurts like buggery. If they'd carried on for two months, the magic might well have started to wear off. Passion doesn't always mutate into something quieter but deeper - sometimes it just evaporates.
_____________________________________________

I think that Arcadius has hit upon a common characteristic of any human relationship. Men, and women, are easily wowed by superficial aspects of a prospective partner, but then are unable to make the jump to a deeper relationship, when they look more closely at their selection. Hence the +50% divorce rate in the US.

I have always felt that in the initial stages of a relationship, both people tend to hide their "true" personalities, only allowing the most positive aspects of their psyches to emerge during initial courtship. Depending on variables, such as acting ability and intelligence, a person can only hide their true personality for about six months. By that time, the initial burst of passion has subsided and people are looking more logically at their relationship.

However, if, as Arcadius stated, the passionate part of their relationship is interrupted, it not only hurts, but people tend to inappropriately fixate on their separated partner. I speak from experience on this matter, and it's one reason I continue to return to LOS.

-- Posted by Hermanolobo on 12:37 am on May 26, 2003

Tsonoqua-
Exactly my feelings about the subject !
I've been married twice and your posting is accurate with my experiences. I told a friend that I'll stay in Europe and enjoy the fantasy when in LOS. He was complaining that now he had a long term relationship in Europe and all the sex he wants he was losing interest in sex !!!
I said now you know what it feels like to be married. So I'd rather go without in Europe and indulge in LOS.
Unfortunately there is always a girl or two I fall for. Then one game stops and another one begins. I am not sure which of the two I prefer? (1) Free and easy? (2) Being in love? I think No.1 can be more fun but less fulfilling?

-- Posted by Skywalker on 1:12 am on May 26, 2003

Some great posts on this topic. I would say however that tpe's story could be relevant to anyone anywhere in the world and would not be a unique asian BG experience.But fascinating none the less.

As for +50 % divorce rate in the USA, whilst I agree with most of your points Tsonoqua, I think that though being more selective over a longer period may hold some wisdom, much of that rather saddening statistic is a deeper vain of a very sick society than the simple adage of just getting to know someone better.

Still some great honesty pervade here and interesting reads thanks guys!

S.

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 1:16 am on May 26, 2003

Most divorce occur within the first 2 years after that % of marriage failure falls like a rock.

-- Posted by Hermanolobo on 1:30 am on May 26, 2003

The Swiss psychologist C G Jung would talk a lot about Introvert vs. Extrovert. Often an Extrovert would marry an Introvert because they saw in that person the very qualities they believe they lacked. And Vice Versa. This would work for 18 months or so and the two would then seperate. The introvert wishing to keep company with the introverts and do introverted things. Like wise for the extrovert wishing to stay in that camp.
Myself I have always been too quick off the draw because the women provided a need at that time. I should definitely taken at least 18 months to make a decision. But thats me, too romantic by half!

-- Posted by craigoz on 11:32 am on May 26, 2003

Arc,

It wasn't a criticism of any sort, merely a question or for that matter more statement of my experience and attitude. Tried once a failed, as issues such a 1 & 3 creept into the relationship over time.

Whilst I do realize that there is no "one single reason" for why many of the relationships never progressing beyond the first and or possibly second encounter, I have found from number of conversations with expats (similar to me 40+ and divorced at least once) that an emotional wall is always there to some degree.
This of course, making it very difficult for the relationship to get a solid foundation. Hence my suggestion that (a) rates about 75% and that the relationship tends to hover/stay in the "Lust" mode, instead of progressing to "Love or Mutual Partnership" phase, regardless of the girls social position.

Secondy (C) Time, always a factor.

Put the two together (a) & (c) and I believe one ends up with a powerfull arguement for not wanting to go the distance with her.

-- Posted by thaiprivateeye on 2:32 pm on May 26, 2003

Certainly being here long term, understanding Thais and the customs to some extent, does make a successful long term realtionship much more probable ; In my case, now have wife/baby - agin my TG from a dubious background, but nonetheless street smart and with plenty of character, and also understood she was heading nowhere, which was probably the same for me -Admitedley it took a pregnancy to really make our association binding, and owing to the fact we were lucky enough to produce a real great daughter, it is she, that has become a very strong, and I would think lifelong bond, between my TG and I.
As of course Thais have a particularly strong love of children, and - as discussed elsewhere, "Luk-Krungs" [Child of thai/Western parentage] are particularly adored here, any Guy looking at a marriage to a Thai girl, should aslo be aware that having a baby with him, [ also covered elsewhere] is something probably to the forefront of her mind, along with the fact he can possibly offer her security not easily found amongst Thai guys of a similar background -

-- Posted by kev29ie on 6:01 pm on May 26, 2003

Having read through thios post (about 2 hours work time wasted, but very well spent if it was leisure time) I want to ad my few cents worth.

First of all Vinny - Is there any news re your friend?
Secondly - Many of the brothers here (not all but many - myself included) have had rocky/unworkable relationships/marriages with womnen of our own culture, language and so on. At any tmie relationships are difficult and require a lot of work and toing and froing.

It is more difficukt again when culture and language present new barriers - but this doesnt mean it is too much to try.

It is so difficulkt to find lasting love in this imperfect world that I have decided I need to take it where I find it - whether that is in the smile of my 4 yr old daughter, my good friends that have stood by me throughout a rough time and maybe at some stage that i can feel good about myself again.

To those who find love in TG's (pro or non) I say if it makes sense for you, grab it with both hands

Work like you dont need to
Dance like no-one is watching
and love as though you have never been hurt

-- Posted by Skywalker on 12:07 am on May 27, 2003

Kev,

I think your correct and very neutral in your outlook of different people in the world, but if some of you will allow I have a few questions and/or maybe observations.

Firstly an observation, TPE sorry to single you out but its best for this point. I realise that you probably see more negative examples of the bad side of human nature in so much as guys being hugely taken advantage of from your line of work, but again this is an example that can be made of any human being in any part of the world. But I understand that your view would probably overtime become somewhat obscured by what you have to observe and witness?

However I don't see any reason why because a person is uneducated (usually due to lack of opportunity rather than ability especially in Thailand or from a poor social standing whatever that actually means)it should or does have any bearing on them as genuine or decent human beings?

I have known many wealthy men finally marry women that fall into this category as they have had far greater heart and soul than many rich, shallow and inwardly ugly women that would appear more suited, would ever hope to obtain in a million years! Some of which have spent a kings ransom to discover, but thankfully did so in the end! This belittlement IMHO adds little in a positive light tothis discussion, nor has it as I said any bearing on a persons decency.

Secondly,

With family such a huge part and priority in Thailand why does it appear so many Thai men (I think Arcadius touched on this) never want to be married in family life?
It just appears strange to me the paradox with the central and pivotal role of the family in their culture.

Any other views in this area would be fascinating TPE and my first observation I hope you can take in the positive light as an observation nothing more as it appears to be an underlying current on the board not just something you seem to repeat about TG's. It's just this western attitude, with what were responsible for in the world past and present just doesn't sit well with me.

Regards

S.

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 1:29 am on May 27, 2003

Sky,

Coupla things. I too would be somewhat baffled with the waywardness of Thai men, given the role of family in their culture, but then I think, "damn, how could I grow up around all these beautiful ladies and not go crazy?" Too much temptation, and the heart is weak, hehehe ...

Second, I can't speak for TPE, but I have never interpreted his views to be negatively colored by his work. In fact, he seems to revel in the culture and the ladies, and to be at peace with himself at the moment. He has also helped me, by PM, sort out some problems my TGF was having (not with me) at her apartment. So I view him as very grounded, and my opinions about the culture aren't much different. For example, I view his comment "my TG from a dubious background, but nonetheless street smart and with plenty of character" as upbeat and positive.

Anway, my two cents. Cheers!

- Balls

-- Posted by Skywalker on 2:14 am on May 27, 2003

Balls,

Thanks for yourtwo cents worth!!!

I have read many of tpe's posts and respect his opinion in a field he knows more about than most of us put together, you have chosen to take it in a positive light I on the otherhand took it on the complete flipside!

However after reading it again you are probably correct. I must also admit that your point in regard to growing up surrounded by so many beautiful ladies hadn't crossed my mind!!!!!!!!!

Apologies to all the Thai men I just insulted for lack of character if not street smart shrewdness!!!

Viny I to was wondering if there was an update on your friend?

Regards

S.

-- Posted by vinny on 5:31 am on May 27, 2003

I am amazed and somewhat honoured to see how this thread has progressed. It makes incredible reading and in general appears to me to be written 'from the heart' of most brothers. For that I thank you all............

And so, back to my friends situation:

Firstly, let me say we have known each other for 3 years. We met in London, he is Italian (but has lived in UK for 18 yrs), and I am born and bred UK (sorry guys).

His name is Gab, and yes he decided to go ahead and build a house (on land owned by his TGF), as it appeared to be the only way possible with the law of 'farrangs can't own Thai land' The house is now finished, and although I have not had a chance to visit it yet, it looks beautiful (from photographs). The house is located in a village between Udon Thani and Sakon Nakon (excuse my spellings), North East Thailand, approx 100kms from the LAOS border.

So, he has paid for this house to be built, and now back in the UK, is of course working and saving for the next trip LOS. Money, he doesn't have, so it's a case of coming back to the UK, earning (whilst trying not to spend) and then heading back out there.

His G/F (Ann), lives in the house now, in the village with her 3 yr old daughter, and her Mother stays there also.

Anyway, Gab, who has now taken an interest in this thread, but is not PC literate, asks me to try and give you his feelings on the matter: So here we go: [His words - my typing]

I first went to LOS in Jan 2002 and, even after a few hours of the first day, I just felt that I wanted to live here. Yes, I went to Patpong (that 1st night) - mainly because it was there! I met my G/F (now wife - might tell more later), that 1st evening. Yes, it was in a bar - and she approached me, and well you can imagine the rest for that night.

3 days later I phoned her, and we met up again, then we spent the next week mostly together, and she showed me around Bangkok. By this time, I had a gut feeling she was a 'special' girl.

We then headed to the Islands and other parts of Thailand had a lovely time for about 2 weeks, and then I went to Chiang Mai and Cambodia for a couple of weeks with some UK friends. On my return to BKK I spent another couple of weeks with Ann, including a spell in her village! I then returned to UK, to sort out some housing as I had sold my flat in the UK some 3 months earlier.

With my mate I bought a house in the North of England then I returned to Thailand agin in July for two months, and during this time, went to Anns village, and decided to offer to pay for a house to be built there for Ann and I. Ann then arranged for builders etc, and by the end of this trip the wood-house was nearly built. Ann now lives in it with her daughter and mother and of course I will go there on my subsequent trips. one day I hope to be able to afford to stay at least 6 months each year. The profit from the sale of my flat allowed me to build the house in Thailand, about £5000, and also to buy a house with my friend in a much cheaper part of the UK than London.

So now, back in the UK, working to pay for my next trip there, hopefully by September or October, I have just the photos of my house there, and the thought of Ann being happy with her child there. I send her the occasinal small amount of money to help her be able to stay in the house and not have to return to a BKK bar whilst I am away.

Emotions: I believe I love Ann, her daughter and her country. it gives me something really wonderful to look forward to, to return there, whilst struggling to earn a living in the UK.

I think I say enough for now...............

-- Posted by Skywalker on 6:53 am on May 27, 2003

Hi Vinny/Gab,

I read your post and I must say I was a little choked, I wish you all the best with everything Gab, however this ends up you moved me with your strength of character, charity, love and humanity for another.

It's one thing to put yourself in this situation when head over heels with a view of paradise through the rose tinted spectacles, being removed for many months working in the UK and yet still seeing things it appears, with apragmatic realism,the courage and strength to dream as I think you do and have are quite incredible virtues.Your living it mate and I thank you at the very least for making such a positive difference to my day with this story.

In my humble opinion It's the kind of situation one should never look back at and want to change or regret and I don't think you ever will.

"Life is just a mirror, and what you see out there, you must first see inside of you."

Wally 'Famous' Amos

Regards

Sky.

-- Posted by goodtrip13 on 3:58 pm on May 27, 2003

I've just read through the entire thread and I have a new angle...

Since discovering BKK at age 18 I have been a regular and faithful patron of the bar scene whenever I was in town. Label me a butterfly, you'd be correct.

I moved to BKK a number of months ago, did I hit the bars?

I had no plan of falling for a TG, BG or not, but over a few months got to know a regular at one of the beer bars. Initially I did the BF LT thing... after a while she started calling me saying that she just wanted to see me, NO MONEY REQUIRED.

I'm gonna say no?

We started "dating", seeing movies, shopping, etc. and she would stay over. I knew her line of work, knew her baggage, but I liked her company, her conversation, her friendship - a lot - and was happy to continue at this level.

"Luckily" for her she had managed to build relationships with a few guys who would send her xxK plus baht a month for occasional visits. Clearing xxK+ a month, she was able to leave the bar scene and is now looking to study.

No longer working (full time) she has been spending more time with me and has moved in to my apartment.

I get tied up inside each time one of her "customers" visits and she is gone for days, but I love her, I knew the scene when I met her, I know I cannot fulfill her financial requirements, so I continue along. I wanna marry her, I have told her this. I just am not financially viable (yet).

Am I being a bastard or a sucker or both?

A lot of friends have advised me "There is no such thing as an ex-bargirl - EVER." Do you believe there is such a thing as an ex-butterfly? I have been faithful to her the last few months even when she has been working. Surprised myself even.

Where this is going I have no idea. I have hope, but no idea.

When you're surfing you don't fight the wave, you ride it.

goodtrip13

-- Posted by thaiprivateeye on 5:34 pm on May 27, 2003

Without doubt, Skywalker, yes, I am pretty cynical towards most TGs, - and I doubt you will find a long term Ex-pat who isnt ... but I dont knock them for what they do, I just point out that things are different here, when you get old, you dont get a pension, and these days the temple wont even take you, so you need your family, hence part of the reason Thais do like to have kids .. As to equating Education with morals.... that sure is not me ; the biggest rip-offs i have witnessed, thats is, TGs getting Millions of baht from farangs, has come from Educated, so called "higher class" Thai women, who for some reason, because she didnt work in a bar, and in fact looks down on such people, the guys think she wont two time them ...... silly mistake ! Of course no generalisations, likewise, for many reasons, yes, it is hard for the TG to leave the bar scene, easy money, lifestyle, drug/alcohol addiction and the friendship of similar minded workers is something that is hard to break away from ... but it does happen, and finaly, a word to Gab - best of luick, you have done a smart thing getting her a home, and some security out of bangkok, and she has done a wise thing taking advantage of your offer - if/when you do move here, or go ahead and marry, and when you are comfortable with it, I suggest you have a child ... No better looking/sharper kids in the world than a Luk krung !!

-- Posted by kev29ie on 5:45 pm on May 27, 2003

Hi Vinny/Gab,

Hope all continues on the up and up. I head out to LOS every year (Havent yet hot the Bar Scene, but plan to this year). There are ways of financing trips that make the cost a lot easier to bear (eg buying courier flights - organsing imports for thai goods shops in your area - all legit stuff). Drop me a mail if you want some info
kev29ie@eircom.net

-- Posted by Skywalker on 9:02 am on May 28, 2003

TPE,

Thanks for the reply, it was interesting to read your remarks in regard to so called higher class women, as I have always found this to be the case in my own native land, however their are no doubt plenty who are not as we describe, I've just never met one!!!!!

I guess really that was all I was getting at here, just that regardless of race/background or occupation everyone is treated in the same light with the same respect and worth. Sure in relation to the majority of posts on this forum women provide a service which is paid for but still deserve to be treated as anyone else when outside the fantasy situations they are engaged in!!

It's nice to see I had totally misinterpreted your comments in a couple of recent posts and apologise for suggesting you were from such narrow minded and shallow standing as to judge someone as described earlier!

I hope therefore that I can put further questions to the board or in PM with regard to thai culture/women etc, (in the relevant section of course)! and that you may still feel able to not only enlighten myself, but no doubt others here when time allows.

Regards

Sky.

-- Posted by thaiprivateeye on 1:47 pm on May 28, 2003

Sky'r
We all have, and of course are entitled to, our opinions, and I admit, that re any Thai woman found/seen out in LOS after midnight, regardless of her alleged background, I am perhaps overly cynical .... But as those who know me will all confirm, I just call things how I see them, - and am the first to admit I dont always get it right !

-- Posted by Soi Magpie on 2:05 am on Dec. 3, 2003

I just saw this thread and got interested because of my current infactuation with my Thai girl. I have only read till page 11. It seems a long way to go till page 31 but I do intend to read them all.

I am wondering already what happened with Zzzz and his thai GF as it has been more than 6 months now.

I must also compliment Cmore post about falling in love on page 11, maybe he forgotten what he wrote but I would say it is a really good post.

Just some comments - as an Asian, it is not such a strange idea for a man from my culture to support our woman, infact, I think it was a better way before roles are all got confused and things got complicated! The problem is not in the supporting but the worry of them taking us for a ride and making us fools!

-- Posted by brubo1 on 8:16 pm on Dec. 7, 2003

I'm like SoiMagpie - only just discovered this thread and must say it got my attention! It surely ranks as one of the most interesting and sincere discussions on any of these Thai forums.
I'm one of those suckers that "retired" a BG!
What I like to know: why is everybody knocking farang guys for trying to have longterm relationships with TG's? I know I am having the best time of my life regarding relationships right now (with my TGF). Even if it lasts only for as long as it takes for TGF to get everything material she wants (1 or 2 or 5 years), what is so different to western relationships that only last that long. (50% divorce rate in the USA was mentioned)

-- Posted by Soi Magpie on 1:00 am on Dec. 8, 2003

Here in my country, divorce rates between locals are just as high.

So would you like to share your story? How long have you been in the R/S? I for one also find it ok as long as they are not to greedy and intend to scam all your money without any heart at all.

-- Posted by brubo1 on 6:36 pm on Dec. 8, 2003

What's the R/S, Soi Maggie?
My story is nothing new, it's been told a thousand times in these forums. But anyway, I believe there are a lot of guys out there that just can't get enough of it, so here it is:
arrived back in BKK last May for the first time in 27 years!
Always wanted to go back all these years but family and kids "got in the way". First girl I talked to in a bar in SC escorted me back to my hotel... Spent a whole month together. Back to Oz for 6 looong weeks, going crazy knowing what she was up to even though I got her an appartment, sponsored her and assurances of "miss you". (I think she turned into a parttime freelancer) The whole of August we spent together again - was a lot cheaper this time with very little accommodation costs, no more lady drinks, BFs and a lot less shopping! I think she started to warm to the idea of being with me then.
Most of September was spent in Europe (alone) and then back to Los again for 7 more weeks. During the August visit I got introduced to 3 of her sisters and one brother and unbeknownst to me (I was told this is a welcome to the moo-baan ceremony) we also got engaged. Plans were also hatched to fix up her parents house that was left to her when they died.
During October and November the "fixing up" of the house turned into building a brand new one, it should be completed by the end of December. Also during this time I believe my GF actually started to like me and she now means it when she says she misses me.
At this point I have to say that she never asked me explicitly for money - not even the fee for the first night was discussed. She certainly never asked me for money to build a house - it was entirely my idea to finance that project. During our time together I would quite often give her all the money I had on me to pay for something. She would always give me back the change, even though it may only have been a few baht. She also would tell me to stay out of sight so she could negotiate a "non-farang" price. She always gave me bankbook, passport, IDcard, ATMcard etc to take care of - I trust you, you take good care of everything!
I am sure that I know more about this girl than many other farang about their GFs because I told her from the start: NO BULLsh*t, NO LYING! I got to hear a few things that maybe I did not want to know, but I'm sure she did not leave many surprises in the cupboard. Remember all this was (is) a gradual thing and she was starting to stick to it because she could see I was sticking to my end of the bargain.
Until I get back in mid January we are limited to daily reports of the building process via telephone.
I don't know yet were all this will lead us. But I figure that even if this relationship would end in the near future, I will have no regrets. I have never been on such a high as during those last few weeks. Never been so happy. I believe it has been money well spent even if she "locks me out of the house tomorrow"!

-- Posted by babanana on 6:52 pm on Dec. 8, 2003

Its okay brubo1.....as far as you are happy. The money is useless if you are not happy in life unless you are taking somebody's else right and spending on someone else.
Thats your money and you have all the right to spend it on yourself for your happiness. You have no reason to doubt on your girl until you saw something wrong going on.

Keep it up fella....life is short and money will be peice of papers you earned by hardwork but if you didnot get chance to spend it on yourself.

crop till drop !!!

-- Posted by BigDUSA on 7:21 pm on Dec. 8, 2003

brubo1,

Your money, your life and it seems like you are having fun. One bit of advice. I would only loan money to a family member one at a time and I would have them sign IOU. I would tell everyone until the first loan is repaid, I won't be able to loan any more money.

-- Posted by Hermanolobo on 7:28 pm on Dec. 8, 2003

I always have this nagging feeling at the back of my mind that it is about money. Always about money and although you may love them they are thinking about money and maybe just a little bit about love. Such good actresses?

Brother Wolf

-- Posted by Arcadius on 7:40 pm on Dec. 8, 2003

Brubo

why is everybody knocking farang guys for trying to have longterm relationships with TG's?

I'd guess a lot of guys have been badly burned in the past (very easy to do if you go in with unrealistic assumptions and expectations), and now have a vested interest in believing the whole deal is impossible and only for suckers.

Of course, much depends on what you mean by a 'long-term relationship'. Obviously, there's an enormously wide spectrum of possible relationships between a one-night stand and a life-long partnership.

Imho, it's not very difficult to develop satisfying (and not obviously exploitative) relationships with BGs, but you need to define your own terms. Most of the trouble comes from trying to force these relationships into conventional moulds imported from back home. This is do-able (there are occasional success stories), but it's terribly difficult. Much easier if you just bin the rule-book and try to build something different based on the local realities. I think this must require some rethinking of traditional Western notions about love, money and the relationship between the two.

-- Posted by Hermanolobo on 7:51 pm on Dec. 8, 2003

Arcadius:worshippy:

-- Posted by cyborg on 9:02 pm on Dec. 9, 2003

Bros, Do you think there is any correlation between the age of a BG and the chances of successfully pursuing a long term relationship?

Example, do you think there is a much better chance of having this with a 32 year old woman as opposed to a 22 year old? I imagine that as a lady approaches mid to late 30s she begins to realize that her days as a marketable babe are waning. Seems that she may be more open to putting bar life behind her and really putting everything shes got into making a relationship with a Farang successful.

Anyone have experiences or thoughts on this??

Cyborg

-- Posted by Soi Magpie on 11:19 pm on Dec. 9, 2003

R/S = Relationship.

Thanks for your story and best of luck to you. I am moving at a much slower pace.

I don't have so much time as to spend a whole month. I am back to my home country for 2 weeks and I miss her like hell so I am going back next week hopefully spending more time this trip. I also promised to spend her birthday with her in Jan. I should be discussing with her on her stopping work soon cause its getting to me when we talk on the phone and she mentioned working!!

Best of luck to you and your attitude is great!!

Quote: from brubo1 on 7:36 pm on Dec. 8, 2003
What's the R/S, Soi Maggie?
My story is nothing new, it's been told a thousand times in these forums. But anyway, I believe there are a lot of guys out there that just can't get enough of it, so here it is:
arrived back in BKK last May for the first time in 27 years!
Always wanted to go back all these years but family and kids "got in the way". First girl I talked to in a bar in SC escorted me back to my hotel... Spent a whole month together. Back to Oz for 6 looong weeks, going crazy knowing what she was up to even though I got her an appartment, sponsored her and assurances of "miss you". (I think she turned into a parttime freelancer) The whole of August we spent together again - was a lot cheaper this time with very little accommodation costs, no more lady drinks, BFs and a lot less shopping! I think she started to warm to the idea of being with me then.
Most of September was spent in Europe (alone) and then back to Los again for 7 more weeks. During the August visit I got introduced to 3 of her sisters and one brother and unbeknownst to me (I was told this is a welcome to the moo-baan ceremony) we also got engaged. Plans were also hatched to fix up her parents house that was left to her when they died.
During October and November the "fixing up" of the house turned into building a brand new one, it should be completed by the end of December. Also during this time I believe my GF actually started to like me and she now means it when she says she misses me.
At this point I have to say that she never asked me explicitly for money - not even the fee for the first night was discussed. She certainly never asked me for money to build a house - it was entirely my idea to finance that project. During our time together I would quite often give her all the money I had on me to pay for something. She would always give me back the change, even though it may only have been a few baht. She also would tell me to stay out of sight so she could negotiate a "non-farang" price. She always gave me bankbook, passport, IDcard, ATMcard etc to take care of - I trust you, you take good care of everything!
I am sure that I know more about this girl than many other farang about their GFs because I told her from the start: NO BULLsh*t, NO LYING! I got to hear a few things that maybe I did not want to know, but I'm sure she did not leave many surprises in the cupboard. Remember all this was (is) a gradual thing and she was starting to stick to it because she could see I was sticking to my end of the bargain.
Until I get back in mid January we are limited to daily reports of the building process via telephone.
I don't know yet were all this will lead us. But I figure that even if this relationship would end in the near future, I will have no regrets. I have never been on such a high as during those last few weeks. Never been so happy. I believe it has been money well spent even if she "locks me out of the house tomorrow"!

-- Posted by Soi Magpie on 11:22 pm on Dec. 9, 2003

I sort of agree to your age correlation theory. The younger the girl...the harder for her to settle down fast.

I also think there is correlation between how long she has been in the scene and how successfully the relationship will be.

It might be easier if she is still very new to the scene and perhaps not so USE to the lifestyle yet.

Quote: from cyborg on 10:02 pm on Dec. 9, 2003
Bros, Do you think there is any correlation between the age of a BG and the chances of successfully pursuing a long term relationship?

Example, do you think there is a much better chance of having this with a 32 year old woman as opposed to a 22 year old? I imagine that as a lady approaches mid to late 30s she begins to realize that her days as a marketable babe are waning. Seems that she may be more open to putting bar life behind her and really putting everything shes got into making a relationship with a Farang successful.

Anyone have experiences or thoughts on this??

Cyborg

-- Posted by Cheap Chalee Mai Dee on 12:08 am on Dec. 10, 2003

Just my 2 cents about relationships and age. I have currently been involved with a Thai lady for 3+ years. She is 42 and I 52. I tend to agree that the older ladies realize that their "marketable" talents drop off with age, because most men want young ladies.

Prior to settling down with this lady I had limited my looking for ladies to ones older than mid to late 20's due to the fact that all they wanted to do was party all of the time and it was mostly a money thing with them. Not that it wasn't a money thing with the older ladies either. However I think the older ladies were more caring than the younger ladies.

As mentioned before several times the age difference has a lot to do with relationships. What does a 60 year old man really have in comman with a 20 year old girl? Normally the desires and wantings are different, where as 2 people in the same age bracket normally seek the same interest.

In Thailand the conception amoung most of the women I've met is that 10 years is really no problem with them, as far as a relationship is concerned. Back to "jai dee" and being kind to them.

-- Posted by aircrest on 12:22 am on Dec. 10, 2003

When I was married about 12 of my friends were married at about the same time. All were married to women in their 30's except one. Only two lasted and one was between a 18 year old and a 52 year old man That lasted until his death a couple years ago. The other couple is growing old together

Having said that I agree age is a plus for longer lasting relationship

-- Posted by Soi Magpie on 4:50 pm on Dec. 22, 2003

I have posted a new topic which is related to this...hope to hear the experience of you guys again.

-- Posted by cyborg on 12:24 am on Jan. 14, 2004

Ac ouple of more questions concerning..."Love."

I had my full blast experience with Sam my BG in Pattaya 4 months ago and I am going back for more in a few weeks. I Have been in constant contact with her via email. She has refrained from tating that she LOVEs me anymore since I suggested that lots of BGs say that and in essence suggesting that I think it may be less than entirely sincere. Her response was that she knows I can not believe her because of her job.

Now that the hour grows nearer she is back to using the L word. I hacve also sent her pix of me here at home and she tells me that she would like to "take care of me here." She promises that she will be at the airport waiting for me.

So, I guess I better be ready for a high pressure situation there. I really like her and in previous discussions I have made it clear that I don't know how we could be together on a permanent basis. It is really hard to get her to t he US unless I marry her. (I didn't offer by the way) ANd LOS is too hot for me (Sweaty Farang) and there is no money in LOS for me.

I want to have a nice time with her but if she begins seriously pressuring me to marry her (Out of the question, we have only been together for 8 days so far) I dont know a non confrontatrional way of defusing that so that we may continue to have a nice time together. If every conversation turns to marriage and why not since I have came back to LOS just to visit her??

I know even if she is legitimate in her feelings for me and I understand that she knows she only has a limited amount of time to make a solid connect with me I cannot accept this "LOVE" crap and I have never said it back BTW.

I really like her but don't wish to hurt her or lead her on either. I have told her I don't know how we could be together. so far that has been my best answer. If the entire trip becomes a planning session of "How we CAN make it happen" I will be tempted to eject.

I am curious, do Thai ladies turbo charge their courtship with Thai men like this too? I suspect that BGs do but that upper class Thai ladies do not.

Thoughts??

Cyborg

23 more days until Cyborg re invades LOS. Mission objectives not yet determined.

-- Posted by Soi Magpie on 11:31 pm on Jan. 18, 2004

I don't know the answer really but I guess if the girl have a modern education and live in a big city like Bangkok, tendency is to date and get to know the person first before talking about marriage.

In the villages, I would think that its more likely to accelerate to marriage once they are feelings.

For a working girl, I guess if she has REAL feelings, she would want it to be stable so she does not have to work again and you can support her. Beside the financial needs, I guess one can see it as she does not have to f_ck other man for $ anymore.

-- Posted by Soi Magpie on 11:37 pm on Jan. 18, 2004

A little update on my story. I did went back to visit her and we had a great time celebrating her birthday at Koh Samui. Then I brought her back to my home country. She seems to like it. I asked to stop work but she wanted more time. She never denied her love for money but she said she wanted me as well. Anyway, now is peak season so she wanted to work somemore and we both agreed that she will stop work on Valentines day.

Now ofcourse I am regretting it a little as I hate to know of her working.

One more thing, in order for her to stop working,I have agreed to pay off a loan she took from her boss on Valentines day too. I just hope and pray I will not become a sucker when that day comes.

-- Posted by CiaoCiao on 12:10 am on Jan. 19, 2004

Quote: from cyborg on 9:24 pm on Jan. 13, 2004
...concerning..."Love."
I dont know a non confrontatrional way of defusing that so that we may continue to have a nice time together.

Cy,

Your post infers that you feel discussion is necessarily confrontational. Not so. And it sounds from your long explanation that you may be subtly, though not intentionally, leading her on to not lose her.

Being honest, but with respect for her feelings, is what keeps things from getting confrontational. The longer you put off telling it like it is, the more you risk confrontation when you do. Honest discourse may lose this one, but better for both to move on - lots more apples in Paradise - for both of you.

Can't say how Thai ladies relate to Thai men, but I have found regular Thai women (though not the young girls) to be more conservative and reserved than Westerners.

Ann Landers

-- Posted by hzink on 1:31 am on Jan. 19, 2004

Quote: from Soi Magpie on 12:37 am on Jan. 19, 2004
Now ofcourse I am regretting it a little as I hate to know of her working.

Better get used to it! If you truly love someone, then you accept them for what they are, and what they do. If she has specific reasons why she works, and she mentions that she doesn't want to stop working, THEN LET HER!

Two reasons:

- It's her life, you are just passing through.
- By not insisting she stop working, you are tactically turning the tables. If she asks "You no want me to stop working", just casually reply "Oh, teerak, if it's what you want to do, I'm happy for you".

See where that goes. Either way, this seems to be more of an issue with your feelings and your emotions wanting to stake the claim of ownership, and thus being hard on yourself because she is working. Realize that this is how you met her, and accept it.

Harry

-- Posted by cyborg on 1:37 am on Jan. 19, 2004

CiaoCiao,

I appreciate your thoughful response but I disagree that I imply that conversation is inherently confrontational. I am merely mentioning that I realize that Thais generally avoid confrontation of any sort and I wish to do it too.I would not necessarily consider a discussion about our future to be a confrontation but I think Thais might. I have specifically told her that I do not see how we can be together and gave the reasons why. I have told her that I like her and care about her. This is all true. I do agree that there may be some subtle messages (Actions speak louder than words) that suggest possibilities. IE Going back to visit her.
I just don't want her to get hurt AND I want a pleasant time with her. I think if we have a discussion right away that I do not intend to "Try to make us-together happen" that it will put a sour mood onto this trip.

It is easy to say just tell her upfront but it will be a different thing altogether to see her face when she truly realizes she isn't going to be flown to Amereeka to be treated as a princesss.

I never promised her anything. Particularly not a rose garden or a new life of leisure.

Cyborg

-- Posted by Arcadius on 2:41 am on Jan. 19, 2004

I want to have a nice time with her but if she begins seriously pressuring me to marry her (Out of the question, we have only been together for 8 days so far) I dont know a non confrontational way of defusing that

cyborg

I tend to agree with CiaoCiao that you're probably making too much out of this. While it's certainly true that Thais dislike confrontation, they certainly don't believe that anyone they ask to marry them is obliged to agree. And especially not if they've known them for a mere 8 days.

What is the truth here? You're coming back to LOS because you like a her a lot and want to be with her again. No harm in telling her this. If she starts mentioning marriage, just make it clear that you think people need to know each other an awful lot better before considering anything like that. So maybe your relationship will lead somewhere in future, maybe it won't... who can tell at this stage?

Believe me, she won't have any trouble understanding this. They're not idiots. Anyway, you should be able to make it clear that if she's seriously interested in you she's just going to have to play it long, because you're not an idiot either. No reason why all this can't be handled in a tactful, non-confrontational manner.

OK, if she won't get the message and goes on and on about it, THEN you have a problem. But if that happens, she's the one who's being unreasonable, and the one causing a confrontational situation.

Just be sincere with her and hope she responds accordingly. If she doesn't, then what more could you do anyway?

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 1:43 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

cyborg,

I think you're getting some good advice from the bro's here. Regarding timelines, I can only tell you what I know from my own experiences. I met my TGF 2 years ago, and was lost the minute I met her (infatuated, but still rational, fortunately). That was in late February. She was 23 1/2 y.o. at the time, I was 44. I went back to LOS in April/May that year to spend more time with her, and to travel throughout other parts of SE Asia.

I think we were both hoping this might be real, but were still skeptical until after the April trip. She had stopped working at her bar twice before on the request of prospective suitors, but each time it fizzled out within a month or so, and she went back. I think there was some loss of face with each return, so I think she wanted to be more certain before she and I got serious.

It was on Koh Lanta in April that we really connected, and for 2 months thereafter we talked via email and telephone about how she might transition from the bar scene. I told her finishing school (12th grade) was a requirement for me. Everything else was "up to her." She tried to do school and work at the same time while living upstairs at her Soi Cowboy gg-bar (with all the other ladies). It was clear by June this wasn't going to work, so she called me and said she wanted to get an apartment and perhaps freelance at her bar (the owner said he'd let her do this, as she'd worked there almost 2 years).

So we got her an apartment, and in the process we talked about her working. She said she really didn't want to work in the P4P biz anymore, and I said fine, I'll support you until you get school done, but you have to work on it and finish. (I still cherish the photo she sent me after she had gotten all her stuff set up in her new apartment. She even had her little framed photo of us on the headboard of the bed. She was beaming with pride in that photo and it damn near brought a tear to this jaded punter's eye.)

Things progressed, and in September, I was in LOS for another month and we went up north were I met her family (including the grandparents I'd mentioned in other threads).

Two years later, she has stuck to the agreement, and is doing 11th grade right now. In the interim, she has also taken additional computer and bookkeeping classes, and tried her hand at working a noodle cart with her auntie. She will be done with school in April 2005, knock on wood. Then we will have to make some serious decisions about what we are going to do.

So is it reasonable to want to wait to get married, especially with an ex-P4P lady? I think so, and I think the ladies understand this. Yes, security and marriage often seem to come before love in Asia, but love does grow, if both parties nurture it. To make it work, you have to put your natural jealousies on hold, given the nature of her profession, and be ready for lots of false starts and shaky steps. It has been worth it for me, and I still don't know where my novel will end. But I regret none of it.

- Balls

-- Posted by Soi Magpie on 2:08 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

Quote: from Ballsburstin on 2:43 pm on Jan. 19, 2004
To make it work, you have to put your natural jealousies on hold, given the nature of her profession, and be ready for lots of false starts and shaky steps. It has been worth it for me, and I still don't know where my novel will end. But I regret none of it.

- Balls

Good for you!! I am still learning to curb my jealousy of knowing she is in the arms of another man!!

I believe love will grow with time to and my sincerity will show her I am serious about her. There are many who insist money will always get in the way to prevent any real love though.

-- Posted by Soi Magpie on 2:11 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

Quote: from hzink on 2:31 am on Jan. 19, 2004
Quote: from Soi Magpie on 12:37 am on Jan. 19, 2004
Now ofcourse I am regretting it a little as I hate to know of her working.

Better get used to it! If you truly love someone, then you accept them for what they are, and what they do. If she has specific reasons why she works, and she mentions that she doesn't want to stop working, THEN LET HER!

Two reasons:

- It's her life, you are just passing through.
- By not insisting she stop working, you are tactically turning the tables. If she asks "You no want me to stop working", just casually reply "Oh, teerak, if it's what you want to do, I'm happy for you".

See where that goes. Either way, this seems to be more of an issue with your feelings and your emotions wanting to stake the claim of ownership, and thus being hard on yourself because she is working. Realize that this is how you met her, and accept it.

Harry

She agree to stop work on Valentines Day. I suggested earlier but she refused. My guess is she wants to accumulate as much as possible now before she retires.

I do agree on the tactics of turning the table though I think she will see through me knowing I am crazy about her.

-- Posted by Triyclops on 2:35 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

Soi Magpie, there is no better feeling than Being in Love. Go for it.. :yes:

TC

-- Posted by ColoradoGuy on 2:40 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

Quote: from Soi Magpie on 2:11 am on Jan. 19, 2004
She agree to stop work on Valentines Day. I suggested earlier but she refused. My guess is she wants to accumulate as much as possible now before she retires.

I hate to be a pessimist, but what do you think the chances are of her stopping working unless she is hundreds of kilometers away from any p4p opportunities?

-- Posted by Kryptonite on 2:47 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

What's love got to do with it? Love is a disease, the sooner you cure yourself of it, the sooner you will be a happy man.

"Marry for money, you can always find someone to f_ck later." Some great advice my Grandfather gave me.

Krypto

-- Posted by ringthebells on 2:48 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

did you??

rtb:bear:

-- Posted by Kryptonite on 3:07 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

Well, my wife has no money. But her family has some money, alot more than me. :cheers:

They have a recycling business (contracts with Macro & Lotus), a karokee bar (pulls in some serious baht), a noodle shop (opening tomorrow) & alot of land (at least 80 rai that I know of).

Krypto

-- Posted by Hermanolobo on 3:12 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

Quote: from Kryptonite on 3:47 pm on Jan. 19, 2004
What's love got to do with it? Love is a disease, the sooner you cure yourself of it, the sooner you will be a happy man.

"Marry for money, you can always find someone to f_ck later." Some great advice my Grandfather gave me.

Krypto

Wise man your grandpappy but we still always learn by hard experience and not advice?

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 3:43 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

Read it and weep: a buddy of mine is finalizing his divorce. He's really a beach bum, but married up. The settlement? He'll end up with millions (literally) from this lady. Turnabout is fairplay, as the say.

And I'm still working for a living.

- Balls

-- Posted by Kryptonite on 3:45 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

Tell your buddy if he ever comes to Chonburi thailand, the beers are on Krypto. f_cking A! Another success story!

Take that you f_cking gold digging c_nts! :321:

Krypto

-- Posted by Ballsburstin on 4:00 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

Krypto,

LOL, truth is stranger than fiction as they say. If I didn't know this guy (an old college buddy), I'd never have believed it. Still pissed be made out so well, but it helps to balance the universe a tad.

- Balls

-- Posted by ringthebells on 4:01 pm on Jan. 19, 2004

one of T's daughters looks very cute. I wonder what daddy would say if she brings me home...

I think I am in love with her already.

and my brother in law would be the richest thai.

I wonder where she is drinking, maybe big brothers night club on thong lo??

gotta check it out one of these days, my pinstripe needs to go out one of theses days.

rtb:coool:

-- Posted by Hermanolobo on 4:26 pm on Jan. 20, 2004

This thread is called 'Falling in Love' and subtitled the consequencies which I believe is the more relevant part. I/we fall in love with girls that:-

Usually have a Thai boyfriend or Husband in the background.
Speak minimal English (We think they can always learn)
Have a very basic education
Cuturally are very different from us i.e. love and sex are separate and not part of the same thing
Often have four or five other farangs sending them money
Are great actresses at faking emotions
Are only interested in the money
Are allegedly well down the league table of nation bed performers (but high up in the 'starfish' league)
Gamble too much
Drink too much
Do not understand that if they spend all their money today they will have none tomorrow!
Are selfish
Have no idea about time
Earn a living by selling their bodies
Are 'run' financially and mentally by their families
Hate living outside Thailand
Often lazy and sleep all day
Often very attractive and good fun
Addictive (not to drugs but for farang)
Live 6 thousand miles away from where you live and earn a living
Cause you to feel homesick for Thailand
Cause you to lose interest in 'Western' women
Take Ya Baa
Had more men then I've had pints of beer
Think we are stupid for falling in love
Need money for the boyfriend's motorbike, family waterbuffalo or their mobile that got eaten by a monkey

And so on and so on

And as the writer said,"Where's the worst place on the planet?"
The International departure lounge at Don Muang airport!

I think 'he' just about says it all?

-- Posted by Soi Magpie on 6:34 pm on Jan. 20, 2004

Quote: from Hermanolobo on 5:26 pm on Jan. 20, 2004
This thread is called 'Falling in Love' and subtitled the consequencies which I believe is the more relevant part. I/we fall in love with girls that:-

Usually have a Thai boyfriend or Husband in the background.
Speak minimal English (We think they can always learn)
Have a very basic education
Cuturally are very different from us i.e. love and sex are separate and not part of the same thing
Often have four or five other farangs sending them money
Are great actresses at faking emotions
Are only interested in the money
Are allegedly well down the league table of nation bed performers (but high up in the 'starfish' league)
Gamble too much
Drink too much
Do not understand that if they spend all their money today they will have none tomorrow!
Are selfish
Have no idea about time
Earn a living by selling their bodies
Are 'run' financially and mentally by their families
Hate living outside Thailand
Often lazy and sleep all day
Often very attractive and good fun
Addictive (not to drugs but for farang)
Live 6 thousand miles away from where you live and earn a living
Cause you to feel homesick for Thailand
Cause you to lose interest in 'Western' women
Take Ya Baa
Had more men then I've had pints of beer
Think we are stupid for falling in love
Need money for the boyfriend's motorbike, family waterbuffalo or their mobile that got eaten by a monkey

And so on and so on

And as the writer said,"Where's the worst place on the planet?"
The International departure lounge at Don Muang airport!

I think 'he' just about says it all?

Maybe I should print this out translate it into Thai and show her someday.

-- Posted by Hermanolobo on 7:00 pm on Jan. 20, 2004

Soi magpie,

And she will say,"Khun Hermanlobo mai dee ! Saahp mark mark lair-o!"

-- Posted by Arcadius on 7:53 pm on Jan. 20, 2004

An impressive list, Hermano.

Quite what it says about us for falling for them, I don't know. Let alone what it says about Western women, to whom we still find them hugely preferable (well, many of us anyway).

Still, I think it shows up the different approaches to life between LOS and the West.

You have our way - spend your life slogging your guts out at some insanely artificial task in order to go shopping for rubbish.

And their way - beguile foreigners into giving you loads of their money and doing most of your work while you devote your life to sleeping, eating and screwing.

Really, which is the more sensible?

-- Posted by Hermanolobo on 8:03 pm on Jan. 20, 2004

Quote: from Arcadius on 8:53 pm on Jan. 20, 2004
An impressive list, Hermano.

Still, I think it shows up the different approaches to life between LOS and the West.

You have our way - spend your life slogging your guts out at some insanely artificial task in order to go shopping for rubbish.

The profound truth in this statement is scary !

The list may be impressive or accurate but it does not detract from the ending of the book 'Money No.1' =
"Where's the worst place on the planet?"
The International departure lounge at Don Muang airport!

-- Posted by cyborg on 10:28 pm on Jan. 20, 2004

Arcadius, My hat is off to you bro. IMHO you have the best track record of thoughtfull,insightful posts and replies to posts. I appreciate it very much whenever you choose to reply to anything I have written/asked.

Muchas Gracias senors!!

Cyborg

-- Posted by cyborg on 10:32 pm on Jan. 20, 2004

Balls, I really enjoy hearing about your life with your Thai lady. It seems that you have a very level head and are approaching things with her sensibly. I hope I will learn to deal with my TGF as wisely.

THX Bro, please share more!!

Cyborg